I think the Muslim religion sucks, but this...

[Anguille]

You LIKE the muslim religion? Why? As far as I can tell they preach for the destruction of the west and treat women worse than rats. Maybe if they'd throw out the Koran, denounce the serial child abuser Mobombed and get back to their roots...I dunno...I don't see much to like.

How is Islam any worse than any other religion? They all suck if you want to judge them by what the zealots preach.

 

[Anguille]

Am I persuading you? I don't mean too, really.

IMO, even though most religions suck, you don't treat Americans badly or avoid them because they believe something you don't believe. It makes him look small and cowardly, frankly.

It certainly does make him look cowardly and like someone trying too hard to make the right impression.

 

[Ravi]

How is Islam any worse than any other religion? They all suck if you want to judge them by what the zealots preach.

It's not just the zealots. Read the book, if you don't believe me. Or read Infidel.

 

[Anguille]

It's not just the zealots. Read the book, if you don't believe me. Or read Infidel.

What book?

 

[Ravi]

What book?

The Koran, or however you spell it.

 

[Anguille]

The Koran, or however you spell it.

Is the Koran any different than the Bible in terms of being open to interpretation?

Islam is like any religion, created by humans and used to promote good things and bad things. Lots can be said about how the treatment of women by the Catholic Church. The Pope doesn't even allow birth control or divorce.

I'm familiar with Hirsi Ali's autobiography but why would you assume every Muslim's woman's upbringing in Somalia was like hers? Circumcision is not an Islamic rite the way it is in the Jewish religion. It has been done in Africa since long before Islam and is done by Christians too. An Ethiopian Christian I worked told me his female relatives were all circumcised. My French and Persian Muslim female friends are not circumcised.

I think Ali Hirsi is an amazing woman to reject and speak out against fundamentalism and the religion she was raised in but it's too bad that women of other religions who do the same don't get as much attention.

 

[Ravi]

Is the Koran any different than the Bible in terms of being open to interpretation?

Islam is like any religion, created by humans and used to promote good things and bad things. Lots can be said about how the treatment of women by the Catholic Church. The Pope doesn't even allow birth control or divorce.

I'm familiar with Ali Hirsi's autobiography but why would you assume every Muslim's woman's upbringing in Somalia was like hers? Circumcision is not an Islamic rite the way it is in the Jewish religion. It has been done in Africa since long before Islam and is done by Christians too. An Ethiopian Christian I worked told me his female relatives were all circumcised. My French and Persian Muslim female friends are not circumcised.

I think Ali Hirsi is an amazing woman to reject and speak out against fundamentalism and the religion she was raised in but it's too bad that women of other religions who do the same don't get as much attention.

Did you read the book? The Somalians are much easier on women than the Arabs are, and according to her, the attitude toward the west and women isn't a fundamentalist attitude, it's just the way Muslims are. Sure, the bible and most Christian religions are to be faulted, but nothing that I've seen compares to convincing women if they don't cover from head to toe and the slightest bit of skin shows the entire society will fall apart from men crazed with lust. And it will be the women's fault. Women lighting themselves on fire for becoming pregnant out of wedlock is common, and if they didn't their male relatives would kill them anyway. And don't get me started on how the Taliban treated women...there is no excusing any of it.

 

[Ravi]

Um, and comparing Catholics to Muslims is like comparing golden retrievers to pit bulls. The Pope doesn't allow...but we aren't ruled by the Pope, and in Muslim countries most of them are ruled by Islamic law. The koran accepts no government that isn't ruled by their God. Pissing on Catholics to distract from Islamic atrocities...priceless.

 

[Anguille]

Did you read the book? The Somalians are much easier on women than the Arabs are, and according to her, the attitude toward the west and women isn't a fundamentalist attitude, it's just the way Muslims are. Sure, the bible and most Christian religions are to be faulted, but nothing that I've seen compares to convincing women if they don't cover from head to toe and the slightest bit of skin shows the entire society will fall apart from men crazed with lust. And it will be the women's fault. Women lighting themselves on fire for becoming pregnant out of wedlock is common, and if they didn't their male relatives would kill them anyway. And don't get me started on how the Taliban treated women...there is no excusing any of it.

Ali is, or was, a politician not a theologian and by the way, she became an atheist and rejected all religions. If the Koran requires that women cover their heads why don't Muslim women in the Balkans, in Turkey cover their heads? What is this about it being common among Muslim women to light themselves on fire for becoming pregnant out of wedlock? Is it more common than Hindu's setting fire to wives who don't bring a satisfactory dowry? Is the Taliban worse to women than the Fundamentalist Mormons and are either truly representative of the larger religions they are assciated with?

It makes no more sense to say Muslims have a certain attitude toward the west than it does for Obama to avoid American Muslims.

It seems to me religions are created for basically the same reasons, to fulfill the same needs in societies and human society being pretty much the same the world over why would one religion be any different from the others.

Methinks the scapegoating of Muslims is much like the scapegoating of pit pulls.

 

[Anguille]

Um, and comparing Catholics to Muslims is like comparing golden retrievers to pit bulls. The Pope doesn't allow...but we aren't ruled by the Pope, and in Muslim countries most of them are ruled by Islamic law. The koran accepts no government that isn't ruled by their God. Pissing on Catholics to distract from Islamic atrocities...priceless.

LOL
Pit bulls

I had not read this post before I posted the one above.

 

[Jeepers]

You LIKE the muslim religion? Why? As far as I can tell they preach for the destruction of the west and treat women worse than rats. Maybe if they'd throw out the Koran, denounce the serial child abuser Mobombed and get back to their roots...I dunno...I don't see much to like.

Jesus christ there are some idiots here....

 

[Ravi]

Ali is, or was, a politician not a theologian and by the way, she became an atheist and rejected all religions. If the Koran requires that women cover their heads why don't Muslim women in the Balkans, in Turkey cover their heads? What is this about it being common among Muslim women to light themselves on fire for becoming pregnant out of wedlock? Is it more common than Hindu's setting fire to wives who don't bring a satisfactory dowry? Is the Taliban worse to women than the Fundamentalist Mormons and are either truly representative of the larger religions they are assciated with?

It makes no more sense to say Muslims have a certain attitude toward the west than it does for Obama to avoid American Muslims.

It seems to me religions are created for basically the same reasons, to fulfill the same needs in societies and human society being pretty much the same the world over why would one religion be any different from the others.

Methinks the scapegoating of Muslims is much like the scapegoating of pit pulls.

That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. It is more common for women to be treated badly under Muslim law than any other religion. Just because other religions can treat women badly does not excuse the Muslims, as you seem to think it does. It's kind of amusing to see you bending over backwards to excuse a religion, seriously. I think this is a common failing amongst progressives...finding a pet religion and putting its right to exist over the right to exist of its victims.

So, did you actually read the book? If not, you ought to, I think you've missed her point by a mile.

 

[Ravi]

Jesus christ there are some idiots here....

Be my guest, Jeepers. Make your case to defend the religion.

 

[Gunny]

If enough Americans are stupid enough to be convinced that Obama is a Moslem, then he's in trouble.

OTOH, if enough Americans are that stupid to allow themselves to be manipulated by the Republican dirty tricks teams, then this nation is in serious trouble anyway.

OTOH, if Americans are stupid enough to sell what the Barrack is cooking, then this nation is in equally serious trouble.

 

[Gunny]

It is related in that Obama refused to seat those scarf wearing Moslems precisely because the Republican mudslinging squads are attempting to portray him as a closet Moslem.

I would have made myself more clear on that point, but I mistakenly assumed that everyone here was intelligent enough to connect those obvious dots, dear.

I have a life, thank you very much.

What's more I apparently also have a brain to make my life somewhat more understandable than you do.

Not you fault, of course.

I'm sure god must have gifted you with some other quality to make up for your other shortcomings.

Can you cook?

It isn't related in that I don't see any GOP anything saying shit. People with the same mentality who refuse to question anything about Obama and toss out the "swift-boating" crap (not directed at you) try to present Obama as a Muslim.

Why is it both sides have to present the fringe idiots on the other as the mainstream? Why is it the fringe idiots on both sides are the only ones that get media coverage? And why are THEY the ones everyone wants to believe?

So we can spend our time arguing about shit that not only isn't true, but doesn't matter, but keeps us hating each other. Heaven forbid we discuss a relevant issue that matters.

 

[Anguille]

That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. It is more common for women to be treated badly under Muslim law than any other religion. Just because other religions can treat women badly does not excuse the Muslims, as you seem to think it does. It's kind of amusing to see you bending over backwards to excuse a religion, seriously. I think this is a common failing amongst progressives...finding a pet religion and putting its right to exist over the right to exist of its victims.

So, did you actually read the book? If not, you ought to, I think you've missed her point by a mile.

If anyone has a pet religion, it's you. I'm not excusing any of them, I think they all suck equally and they all also have things that are good about them. Seeing as I think most humans are good, I think their religions, all of them, were intended for good and do accomplish some good though not enough to convince me they are worthwhile having.
You may think that the Koran advocates worse things than the Bible, (even though the Bible is in the Koran) and that all Muslims obey Sharia law ( if that were true, most of my Muslim friends would be in big trouble) but I think it's just your misplaced anger at the Catholic Church that makes you revile Islam. I wasn't even raised a Christian but as an American, Christianity has had a worse affect on my life than Islam. I'd venture to say it's the same for you.

No, I have not read her entire book but why would reading her book change my mind on whether I think one person's experience of Islam in Somalia makes them the expert on interpreting the Koran? Her father was a Muslim, a communist and opposed to female circumcision and he read the Koran too.

 

[Anguille]

OTOH, if Americans are stupid enough to sell what the Barrack is cooking, then this nation is in equally serious trouble.

I'll take what Obama is cooking over what McCain's has in the oven.

 

[Gunny]

I'll take what Obama is cooking over what McCain's has in the oven.

Feel free.

 

[Anguille]

Am I persuading you? I don't mean too, really.

IMO, even though most religions suck, you don't treat Americans badly or avoid them because they believe something you don't believe. It makes him look small and cowardly, frankly.

Wait, how could Muslims be true Americans if, as you say, they all obey Sharia law and think the Koran is telling them government must be subject to Allah?

What religions, in your opinion, do not suck?

 

[Anguille]

Feel free.

Thanks, I think I will. He's going to win, you know. Even people who don't particularly like him will vote for him because they can't stomach McCain's junk food.