McRocket
Gold Member
- Apr 4, 2018
- 5,031
- 707
- 275
- Banned
- #1
I am starting this thread so that people who have ACTUALLY READ THE BOOK can give their thoughts about what they read.
My thoughts (other than it was a FASCINATING 'read' - I highly recommend it):
1) it talks VERY little about the whole Russian thing...maybe 3-4 chapters. It often mentions Trump's anger about it, but (except for one or two chapters in the middle), it is not until the last few chapters that it REALLY goes into it.
2) the book does NOT give ANY evidence that Trump colluded with the Russians. It gives the impression that the only way Trump is guilty of collusion was if former people in his inner circle (Flynn, Manafort, etc.) turn on him and say damning things. Woodward does not say if Trump is guilty or innocent. But the general impression is that Woodward saw/heard nothing that Trump did wrong on this matter (though he does not exclude the possibility that things happened that he is not aware of).
And Woodward gives the impression - through what others said in the book - that the investigation may indeed have 'witch hunt' aspects to it.
The overriding theme about this - to me - was that Trump is his own worst enemy. And that there were two things about Trump's personality that are hurting him as much as anything - that he is not as smart as he thinks he is and that he is a liar.
These two things are mentioned over and over and over again in the book...from MANY different sources. That Trump is stupid (or, at least, far less intelligent than he thinks he is) and he lies...like crazy.
In fact, the final words of the book are attributed to his former lead attorney, John Dowd, a marine and a man who seemed genuinely fond of Trump;
'Trump had one overriding problem that Dowd knew, but could not bring himself to say to the President; you're a FUCKING liar'.
The book gives the impression that if Trump had just shut up, fully co-operated (including testifying) and let the investigation go forward quietly...that it would be over long ago with few, major problems for Trump.
But, two major impediments got in the way. First, Trump is pissing EVERYONE off...making political enemies all over the place. And second - and maybe the biggest problem - his lawyers refuse to let Trump testify because they STRONGLY believe that Trump will perjure himself.
The impression Woodward gives is that Mueller is dying to question Trump and that Mueller will then deliberately ask Trump a question that he knows will make Trump furious. Then Trump will go nuts, do a five minute rant about it, and perjure himself ten ways from Sunday.
This is where Trump's penchant for lying/exaggerating/making up facts is so bad. And the worst part is - Trump does not seem to believe it. He thinks he is brilliant and honest.
To be fair to Trump - no one around him EVER seems to have the guts to tell him the truth. Maybe if more people whom he respected told him the truth, Trump would learn and smarten up.
As for the rest of the book?
Most of it seems to deal with those around Trump trying to stop him from doing what he wants to do. And the others trying to get him to do what they want him to do.
I actually felt sorry for Trump at times.
And, IMO, not all of those giving advice were giving him good advice.
Trump strongly wanted America to pull troops out of NATO and South Korea. On this, I agree with him 100%. But, he is surrounded by neocons who kept telling him why he could not do this.
Trump was also TOTALLY against staying in Afghanistan (for great reasons, IMO). But, eventually, those around him wore him down and he gave in.
However, his trade deficit obsession is wrong (my words) and despite almost everyone trying to talk him out of his silly tariffs...he DID go ahead with those (obviously).
My believe is that - except for a few critical things (like his attempted tweet about pulling US service personnel out of South Korea) - I wish his 'people' would just let Trump do EXACTLY what he wanted to do and let the world (and Trump) see and learn from the results. If Trump would put his foot down more often, he would get more of what he wanted.
I am NOT saying they would be good for America. But at least they would show everyone (including Trump) whether his ideas really are as good as he thinks they are.
People who surprised me?
Rob Porter comes across in the book as someone who did a LOT of good by being a voice of reason whom Trump respected. And Gary Cohn also came across as a reasonable and decent person. Hope Hicks is mentioned favorably as well. As were Chief of Staff's Kelly and Priebus. And even Lindsey Graham looks good in the book. Forgetting he is a neocon (blah), he seems to be about as straight up with Trump as anyone. All of these people are described as calming Trump down when he goes on a rant and/or stopping him from making REALLY dumb mistakes/taking awful advice.
Finally, except for painting Trump as self-centered, none-too-brilliant and a staggering liar (none of these things should come as a surprise to anyone with an open mind about him)...the book actually paints Trump in a FAR better light then the media seems to be making.
Sure, people took pages off of his desk. Big deal. It's not like he could not have said 'hey, where is that paper I was supposed to sign?'. But since his attention span is (apparently) so short, he quickly forgets about them.
My conclusion about Trump from the book was that here is a man who DESPERATELY needs people around him who will TELL HIM THE TRUTH - no matter how much it hurts him.
Trump is a VERY flawed man. But maybe he would not be so flawed if those closest to him would stop bullshitting him all the time and just be dead straight with the guy.
My thoughts (other than it was a FASCINATING 'read' - I highly recommend it):
1) it talks VERY little about the whole Russian thing...maybe 3-4 chapters. It often mentions Trump's anger about it, but (except for one or two chapters in the middle), it is not until the last few chapters that it REALLY goes into it.
2) the book does NOT give ANY evidence that Trump colluded with the Russians. It gives the impression that the only way Trump is guilty of collusion was if former people in his inner circle (Flynn, Manafort, etc.) turn on him and say damning things. Woodward does not say if Trump is guilty or innocent. But the general impression is that Woodward saw/heard nothing that Trump did wrong on this matter (though he does not exclude the possibility that things happened that he is not aware of).
And Woodward gives the impression - through what others said in the book - that the investigation may indeed have 'witch hunt' aspects to it.
The overriding theme about this - to me - was that Trump is his own worst enemy. And that there were two things about Trump's personality that are hurting him as much as anything - that he is not as smart as he thinks he is and that he is a liar.
These two things are mentioned over and over and over again in the book...from MANY different sources. That Trump is stupid (or, at least, far less intelligent than he thinks he is) and he lies...like crazy.
In fact, the final words of the book are attributed to his former lead attorney, John Dowd, a marine and a man who seemed genuinely fond of Trump;
'Trump had one overriding problem that Dowd knew, but could not bring himself to say to the President; you're a FUCKING liar'.
The book gives the impression that if Trump had just shut up, fully co-operated (including testifying) and let the investigation go forward quietly...that it would be over long ago with few, major problems for Trump.
But, two major impediments got in the way. First, Trump is pissing EVERYONE off...making political enemies all over the place. And second - and maybe the biggest problem - his lawyers refuse to let Trump testify because they STRONGLY believe that Trump will perjure himself.
The impression Woodward gives is that Mueller is dying to question Trump and that Mueller will then deliberately ask Trump a question that he knows will make Trump furious. Then Trump will go nuts, do a five minute rant about it, and perjure himself ten ways from Sunday.
This is where Trump's penchant for lying/exaggerating/making up facts is so bad. And the worst part is - Trump does not seem to believe it. He thinks he is brilliant and honest.
To be fair to Trump - no one around him EVER seems to have the guts to tell him the truth. Maybe if more people whom he respected told him the truth, Trump would learn and smarten up.
As for the rest of the book?
Most of it seems to deal with those around Trump trying to stop him from doing what he wants to do. And the others trying to get him to do what they want him to do.
I actually felt sorry for Trump at times.
And, IMO, not all of those giving advice were giving him good advice.
Trump strongly wanted America to pull troops out of NATO and South Korea. On this, I agree with him 100%. But, he is surrounded by neocons who kept telling him why he could not do this.
Trump was also TOTALLY against staying in Afghanistan (for great reasons, IMO). But, eventually, those around him wore him down and he gave in.
However, his trade deficit obsession is wrong (my words) and despite almost everyone trying to talk him out of his silly tariffs...he DID go ahead with those (obviously).
My believe is that - except for a few critical things (like his attempted tweet about pulling US service personnel out of South Korea) - I wish his 'people' would just let Trump do EXACTLY what he wanted to do and let the world (and Trump) see and learn from the results. If Trump would put his foot down more often, he would get more of what he wanted.
I am NOT saying they would be good for America. But at least they would show everyone (including Trump) whether his ideas really are as good as he thinks they are.
People who surprised me?
Rob Porter comes across in the book as someone who did a LOT of good by being a voice of reason whom Trump respected. And Gary Cohn also came across as a reasonable and decent person. Hope Hicks is mentioned favorably as well. As were Chief of Staff's Kelly and Priebus. And even Lindsey Graham looks good in the book. Forgetting he is a neocon (blah), he seems to be about as straight up with Trump as anyone. All of these people are described as calming Trump down when he goes on a rant and/or stopping him from making REALLY dumb mistakes/taking awful advice.
Finally, except for painting Trump as self-centered, none-too-brilliant and a staggering liar (none of these things should come as a surprise to anyone with an open mind about him)...the book actually paints Trump in a FAR better light then the media seems to be making.
Sure, people took pages off of his desk. Big deal. It's not like he could not have said 'hey, where is that paper I was supposed to sign?'. But since his attention span is (apparently) so short, he quickly forgets about them.
My conclusion about Trump from the book was that here is a man who DESPERATELY needs people around him who will TELL HIM THE TRUTH - no matter how much it hurts him.
Trump is a VERY flawed man. But maybe he would not be so flawed if those closest to him would stop bullshitting him all the time and just be dead straight with the guy.
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