I just finished Woodward book 'Fear'

[McRocket]

I am starting this thread so that people who have ACTUALLY READ THE BOOK can give their thoughts about what they read.

My thoughts (other than it was a FASCINATING 'read' - I highly recommend it):

1) it talks VERY little about the whole Russian thing...maybe 3-4 chapters. It often mentions Trump's anger about it, but (except for one or two chapters in the middle), it is not until the last few chapters that it REALLY goes into it.

2) the book does NOT give ANY evidence that Trump colluded with the Russians. It gives the impression that the only way Trump is guilty of collusion was if former people in his inner circle (Flynn, Manafort, etc.) turn on him and say damning things. Woodward does not say if Trump is guilty or innocent. But the general impression is that Woodward saw/heard nothing that Trump did wrong on this matter (though he does not exclude the possibility that things happened that he is not aware of).
And Woodward gives the impression - through what others said in the book - that the investigation may indeed have 'witch hunt' aspects to it.
The overriding theme about this - to me - was that Trump is his own worst enemy. And that there were two things about Trump's personality that are hurting him as much as anything - that he is not as smart as he thinks he is and that he is a liar.
These two things are mentioned over and over and over again in the book...from MANY different sources. That Trump is stupid (or, at least, far less intelligent than he thinks he is) and he lies...like crazy.
In fact, the final words of the book are attributed to his former lead attorney, John Dowd, a marine and a man who seemed genuinely fond of Trump;
'Trump had one overriding problem that Dowd knew, but could not bring himself to say to the President; you're a FUCKING liar'.

The book gives the impression that if Trump had just shut up, fully co-operated (including testifying) and let the investigation go forward quietly...that it would be over long ago with few, major problems for Trump.
But, two major impediments got in the way. First, Trump is pissing EVERYONE off...making political enemies all over the place. And second - and maybe the biggest problem - his lawyers refuse to let Trump testify because they STRONGLY believe that Trump will perjure himself.
The impression Woodward gives is that Mueller is dying to question Trump and that Mueller will then deliberately ask Trump a question that he knows will make Trump furious. Then Trump will go nuts, do a five minute rant about it, and perjure himself ten ways from Sunday.
This is where Trump's penchant for lying/exaggerating/making up facts is so bad. And the worst part is - Trump does not seem to believe it. He thinks he is brilliant and honest.
To be fair to Trump - no one around him EVER seems to have the guts to tell him the truth. Maybe if more people whom he respected told him the truth, Trump would learn and smarten up.


As for the rest of the book?

Most of it seems to deal with those around Trump trying to stop him from doing what he wants to do. And the others trying to get him to do what they want him to do.
I actually felt sorry for Trump at times.

And, IMO, not all of those giving advice were giving him good advice.
Trump strongly wanted America to pull troops out of NATO and South Korea. On this, I agree with him 100%. But, he is surrounded by neocons who kept telling him why he could not do this.
Trump was also TOTALLY against staying in Afghanistan (for great reasons, IMO). But, eventually, those around him wore him down and he gave in.

However, his trade deficit obsession is wrong (my words) and despite almost everyone trying to talk him out of his silly tariffs...he DID go ahead with those (obviously).

My believe is that - except for a few critical things (like his attempted tweet about pulling US service personnel out of South Korea) - I wish his 'people' would just let Trump do EXACTLY what he wanted to do and let the world (and Trump) see and learn from the results. If Trump would put his foot down more often, he would get more of what he wanted.
I am NOT saying they would be good for America. But at least they would show everyone (including Trump) whether his ideas really are as good as he thinks they are.


People who surprised me?
Rob Porter comes across in the book as someone who did a LOT of good by being a voice of reason whom Trump respected. And Gary Cohn also came across as a reasonable and decent person. Hope Hicks is mentioned favorably as well. As were Chief of Staff's Kelly and Priebus. And even Lindsey Graham looks good in the book. Forgetting he is a neocon (blah), he seems to be about as straight up with Trump as anyone. All of these people are described as calming Trump down when he goes on a rant and/or stopping him from making REALLY dumb mistakes/taking awful advice.

Finally, except for painting Trump as self-centered, none-too-brilliant and a staggering liar (none of these things should come as a surprise to anyone with an open mind about him)...the book actually paints Trump in a FAR better light then the media seems to be making.
Sure, people took pages off of his desk. Big deal. It's not like he could not have said 'hey, where is that paper I was supposed to sign?'. But since his attention span is (apparently) so short, he quickly forgets about them.

My conclusion about Trump from the book was that here is a man who DESPERATELY needs people around him who will TELL HIM THE TRUTH - no matter how much it hurts him.
Trump is a VERY flawed man. But maybe he would not be so flawed if those closest to him would stop bullshitting him all the time and just be dead straight with the guy.

 

[Rambunctious]

Did you pay for it?......sucker......

 

[theHawk]

So he keeps calling him a liar, yet we never hear what these great lies are.

Funny he admits the whole Russia collusion thing is a sham.

 

[Snouter]

You can tell a lot about how someone writes by the way they talk. Woodward is very, very slow witted and talks like a mental patient (actually Senator Susan Collins seems to have a similar affliction). My guess is Woodward hired a bunch of sneaks to provide him with fake shit so the editors could piece together something that is not too obviously fake news. Some of you might recall Woodward promised to hire dozens of investigators to help him publish an expose on our President before the election when he beat Crooked Hillary in a landslide.

 

[gipper]

“Not as smart as he thinks he is and a liar.”

Seems to me those traits are perquisites for being POTUS. Haven’t all our recent presidents had them?

Could be Donnie has it worse than average.

 

[Windparadox]

`
I'm half way through the book and get the same impression. He's a child ruled by his most base emotions. He is totally
Machiavellian which is a personality trait that sees a person so focused on their own interests they will manipulate, deceive, and exploit others to achieve their goals.

 

[ColonelAngus]

I love it, we needed a bull in that China shop of Washington BAU.

He has already accomplished much of what I voted for him to accomplish, exposing the systemic corruption in DC was just a bonus.

Anyone who thinks Washington politicians care about anything other than money and power are kidding themselves.

We desperately need term limits and the corrupt clinton machine needs to be parted out.

 

[Windparadox]

I love it, we needed a bull in that China shop of Washington BAU.
He has already accomplished much of what I voted for him to accomplish, exposing the systemic corruption in DC was just a bonus.Anyone who thinks Washington politicians care about anything other than money and power are kidding themselves.We desperately need term limits and the corrupt clinton machine needs to be parted out.

`
`

 

[rightwinger]

So he keeps calling him a liar, yet we never hear what these great lies are.

Funny he admits the whole Russia collusion thing is a sham.

Our President is a prolific liar

His biggest problem is that he is not very good at it. Most of his lies are easily disproved with actual facts

 

[Blackrook]

It's odd that Trump is doing so much GOOD for our country, and all these people say he's so BAD. Makes me wonder how that is even possible.

 

[rightwinger]

`
I'm half way through the book and get the same impression. He's a child ruled by his most base emotions. He is totally
Machiavellian which is a personality trait that sees a person so focused on their own interests they will manipulate, deceive, and exploit others to achieve their goals.

I don't see Trump as Machiavellian
He lacks the basic intelligence to see the underlying details of issues. He is also a poor judge of character

Trump is more of a bully

 

[Windparadox]

I don't see Trump as MachiavellianHe lacks the basic intelligence to see the underlying details of issues. He is also a poor judge of characterTrump is more of a bully

`
I accidentally left out the other two being narcissism and psychopathy. He's a text book example.

 

[Claudette]

Well for a guy who the left thinks is an idiot, liar and any other derogatory thing they can think of he's doing one fine job.

The economy is booming.

UE is the lowest its been in 49 years.

People have more money in their pay checks.

People like the direction the country is headed in.

I'd say the guy the left thinks in incompetent is very, very competent.

I'll take Trump any day.

 

[mudwhistle]

I am starting this thread so that people who have ACTUALLY READ THE BOOK can give their thoughts about what they read.

My thoughts (other than it was a FASCINATING 'read' - I highly recommend it):

1) it talks VERY little about the whole Russian thing...maybe 3-4 chapters. It often mentions Trump's anger about it, but (except for one or two chapters in the middle), it is not until the last few chapters that it REALLY goes into it.

2) the book does NOT give ANY evidence that Trump colluded with the Russians. It gives the impression that the only way Trump is guilty of collusion was if former people in his inner circle (Flynn, Manafort, etc.) turn on him and say damning things. Woodward does not say if Trump is guilty or innocent. But the general impression is that Woodward saw/heard nothing that Trump did wrong on this matter (though he does not exclude the possibility that things happened that he is not aware of).
And Woodward gives the impression - through what others said in the book - that the investigation may indeed have 'witch hunt' aspects to it.
The overriding theme about this - to me - was that Trump is his own worst enemy. And that there were two things about Trump's personality that are hurting him as much as anything - that he is not as smart as he thinks he is and that he is a liar.
These two things are mentioned over and over and over again in the book...from MANY different sources. That Trump is stupid (or, at least, far less intelligent than he thinks he is) and he lies...like crazy.
In fact, the final words of the book are attributed to his former lead attorney, John Dowd, a marine and a man who seemed genuinely fond of Trump;
'Trump had one overriding problem that Dowd knew, but could not bring himself to say to the President; you're a FUCKING liar'.

The book gives the impression that if Trump had just shut up, fully co-operated (including testifying) and let the investigation go forward quietly...that it would be over long ago with few, major problems for Trump.
But, two major impediments got in the way. First, Trump is pissing EVERYONE off...making political enemies all over the place. And second - and maybe the biggest problem - his lawyers refuse to let Trump testify because they STRONGLY believe that Trump will perjure himself.
The impression Woodward gives is that Mueller is dying to question Trump and that Mueller will then deliberately ask Trump a question that he knows will make Trump furious. Then Trump will go nuts, do a five minute rant about it, and perjure himself ten ways from Sunday.
This is where Trump's penchant for lying/exaggerating/making up facts is so bad. And the worst part is - Trump does not seem to believe it. He thinks he is brilliant and honest.
To be fair to Trump - no one around him EVER seems to have the guts to tell him the truth. Maybe if more people whom he respected told him the truth, Trump would learn and smarten up.


As for the rest of the book?

Most of it seems to deal with those around Trump trying to stop him from doing what he wants to do. And the others trying to get him to do what they want him to do.
I actually felt sorry for Trump at times.

And, IMO, not all of those giving advice were giving him good advice.
Trump strongly wanted America to pull troops out of NATO and South Korea. On this, I agree with him 100%. But, he is surrounded by neocons who kept telling him why he could not do this.
Trump was also TOTALLY against staying in Afghanistan (for great reasons, IMO). But, eventually, those around him wore him down and he gave in.

However, his trade deficit obsession is wrong (my words) and despite almost everyone trying to talk him out of his silly tariffs...he DID go ahead with those (obviously).

My believe is that - except for a few critical things (like his attempted tweet about pulling US service personnel out of South Korea) - I wish his 'people' would just let Trump do EXACTLY what he wanted to do and let the world (and Trump) see and learn from the results. If Trump would put his foot down more often, he would get more of what he wanted.
I am NOT saying they would be good for America. But at least they would show everyone (including Trump) whether his ideas really are as good as he thinks they are.


People who surprised me?
Rob Porter comes across in the book as someone who did a LOT of good by being a voice of reason whom Trump respected. And Gary Cohn also came across as a reasonable and decent person. Hope Hicks is mentioned favorably as well. As were Chief of Staff's Kelly and Priebus. And even Lindsey Graham looks good in the book. Forgetting he is a neocon (blah), he seems to be about as straight up with Trump as anyone. All of these people are described as calming Trump down when he goes on a rant and/or stopping him from making REALLY dumb mistakes/taking awful advice.

Finally, except for painting Trump as self-centered, none-too-brilliant and a staggering liar (none of these things should come as a surprise to anyone with an open mind about him)...the book actually paints Trump in a FAR better light then the media seems to be making.
Sure, people took pages off of his desk. Big deal. It's not like he could not have said 'hey, where is that paper I was supposed to sign?'. But since his attention span is (apparently) so short, he quickly forgets about them.

My conclusion about Trump from the book was that here is a man who DESPERATELY needs people around him who will TELL HIM THE TRUTH - no matter how much it hurts him.
Trump is a VERY flawed man. But maybe he would not be so flawed if those closest to him would stop bullshitting him all the time and just be dead straight with the guy.

If exaggeration was a crime Hillary and Obama would be serving a life sentence.

 

[candycorn]

I am starting this thread so that people who have ACTUALLY READ THE BOOK can give their thoughts about what they read.

My thoughts (other than it was a FASCINATING 'read' - I highly recommend it):

1) it talks VERY little about the whole Russian thing...maybe 3-4 chapters. It often mentions Trump's anger about it, but (except for one or two chapters in the middle), it is not until the last few chapters that it REALLY goes into it.

I was surprised by how rarely Mueller is mentioned in the book.

2) the book does NOT give ANY evidence that Trump colluded with the Russians. It gives the impression that the only way Trump is guilty of collusion was if former people in his inner circle (Flynn, Manafort, etc.) turn on him and say damning things. Woodward does not say if Trump is guilty or innocent. But the general impression is that Woodward saw/heard nothing that Trump did wrong on this matter (though he does not exclude the possibility that things happened that he is not aware of).
And Woodward gives the impression - through what others said in the book - that the investigation may indeed have 'witch hunt' aspects to it.

I got the feeling that Woodward is writing 2 or 3 books. This was the first of a two or three book analysis of the Trump Presidency. He did two about Obama, three about W, two about Bill Clinton. He has more material and probably was trying to avoid overlap. I would imagine he would have plenty to write about the special counsel investigation as Quarrels and Dowd are clearly sources. The last chapters that did delve into the Mueller investigation were more of the same of the entire book.

The overriding theme about this - to me - was that Trump is his own worst enemy. And that there were two things about Trump's personality that are hurting him as much as anything - that he is not as smart as he thinks he is and that he is a liar.
These two things are mentioned over and over and over again in the book...from MANY different sources. That Trump is stupid (or, at least, far less intelligent than he thinks he is) and he lies...like crazy.
In fact, the final words of the book are attributed to his former lead attorney, John Dowd, a marine and a man who seemed genuinely fond of Trump;
'Trump had one overriding problem that Dowd knew, but could not bring himself to say to the President; you're a FUCKING liar'.

The best part of the book may be that Woodward didn’t take the easy bait of chronicling every lie that the blob told. I was worried that it would get into the weeds and just re-hash the galaxy of lies that we all know too well.

Trump’s stupidity was on full display with Cohn and the trade issue. The term “groundhog day” was so apropos.

The book gives the impression that if Trump had just shut up, fully co-operated (including testifying) and let the investigation go forward quietly...that it would be over long ago with few, major problems for Trump.
But, two major impediments got in the way. First, Trump is pissing EVERYONE off...making political enemies all over the place. And second - and maybe the biggest problem - his lawyers refuse to let Trump testify because they STRONGLY believe that Trump will perjure himself.
The impression Woodward gives is that Mueller is dying to question Trump and that Mueller will then deliberately ask Trump a question that he knows will make Trump furious. Then Trump will go nuts, do a five minute rant about it, and perjure himself ten ways from Sunday.
This is where Trump's penchant for lying/exaggerating/making up facts is so bad. And the worst part is - Trump does not seem to believe it. He thinks he is brilliant and honest.
To be fair to Trump - no one around him EVER seems to have the guts to tell him the truth. Maybe if more people whom he respected told him the truth, Trump would learn and smarten up.

He respects nobody. That’s the problem; he has a worldview that is incongruent with reality (shared by Bannon) and there is nothing that is going to change that. How many times was it explained to him that the trade deficit was not necessarily a bad thing and by how many people? He wasn’t going to change no matter what. And you see the effects in the tariffs.

As for the rest of the book?

I finished the book yesterday as well. I gave it some thought driving to dinner last evening. It wasn’t a great book. The details were great; I have no doubt as to it’s accuracy and I think that the book did a good job of giving us a picture of the Whitehouse but I first thought it was too scatter shot. But as we were sitting around the table eating coffee cake last night, it occurred to me that there is no beginning, middle, and end to the story because there is no beginning, middle, and end to what he was covering…

Most of it seems to deal with those around Trump trying to stop him from doing what he wants to do. And the others trying to get him to do what they want him to do.
I actually felt sorry for Trump at times.

Bannon was the clear opportunist in the book and took full advantage of Trump’s thickness.

And, IMO, not all of those giving advice were giving him good advice.
Trump strongly wanted America to pull troops out of NATO and South Korea. On this, I agree with him 100%. But, he is surrounded by neocons who kept telling him why he could not do this.
Trump was also TOTALLY against staying in Afghanistan (for great reasons, IMO). But, eventually, those around him wore him down and he gave in.

I was in agreement with you too on this until I listened to the book (I had the audio version on my phone). Now I think it would be unthinkable to withdraw troops from south Korea given the 7 second to 15 minute notification we would have of a missile launch.

What I didn’t understand was why, for example, was Sessions at a meeting about foreign policy? I would think the AG’s purview would be almost entirely domestic.

However, his trade deficit obsession is wrong (my words) and despite almost everyone trying to talk him out of his silly tariffs...he DID go ahead with those (obviously).

My believe is that - except for a few critical things (like his attempted tweet about pulling US service personnel out of South Korea) - I wish his 'people' would just let Trump do EXACTLY what he wanted to do and let the world (and Trump) see and learn from the results. If Trump would put his foot down more often, he would get more of what he wanted.
I am NOT saying they would be good for America. But at least they would show everyone (including Trump) whether his ideas really are as good as he thinks they are.

Walking back poor foreign policy decisions is very hard to do so I’m happy that Mattis and others are there to act as a hedge against total disaster. Like, for example, the part about withdrawing US Military member’s dependents from the peninsula and how that would be perceived by NK? The only conclusion that could be drawn is that there is impending military action about to be taken.

And the predictable disaster would just be blamed on someone else; Trump is incapable of learning anything that will challenge his worldview. Hence Bolton.

People who surprised me?
Rob Porter comes across in the book as someone who did a LOT of good by being a voice of reason whom Trump respected. And Gary Cohn also came across as a reasonable and decent person. Hope Hicks is mentioned favorably as well. As were Chief of Staff's Kelly and Priebus. And even Lindsey Graham looks good in the book. Forgetting he is a neocon (blah), he seems to be about as straight up with Trump as anyone. All of these people are described as calming Trump down when he goes on a rant and/or stopping him from making REALLY dumb mistakes/taking awful advice.

I think it was Matt Tiabbi who called Graham an “overgrown ventriloquist dummy”. Graham sounded exactly as I thought he would sound. The conversation they had about his—Graham--being “with me” (Trump) was pretty telling. Graham pointed out that if the issue was X he may be with him, if the issue is Y, he may not. Trump didn’t seem to understand that humans have this dimension. Great fun.

What was least surprising was that the President had a personal secretary who is 27 from Southern California.

shocking….


I was surprised that Trump was painted as being as thoughtful as he was portrayed. It wasn’t addressed in the book but I would assume that if he didn’t have people who were policy hawks in his White House, Trump would do nothing all day except watch TV and tweet. Put another way, Trump would likely not initiate anything on his own.

His traveling to Dover was surprising. Very surprising in fact.

Finally, except for painting Trump as self-centered, none-too-brilliant and a staggering liar (none of these things should come as a surprise to anyone with an open mind about him)...the book actually paints Trump in a FAR better light then the media seems to be making.

Sure, people took pages off of his desk. Big deal. It's not like he could not have said 'hey, where is that paper I was supposed to sign?'. But since his attention span is (apparently) so short, he quickly forgets about them.

Agree.

My conclusion about Trump from the book was that here is a man who DESPERATELY needs people around him who will TELL HIM THE TRUTH - no matter how much it hurts him.
Trump is a VERY flawed man. But maybe he would not be so flawed if those closest to him would stop bullshitting him all the time and just be dead straight with the guy.

I take the 180 degree opposite view.

He chases off those who do tell him the truth; he is immune from facts as his voting base.

——

I thought the book was like a big budget movie in the theaters these days. It sets up a sequel.

What I liked were the details. Like Mattis folding underwear, his walking down to Tillerson’s house to say hello, The time Barron came in with his friend for the photograph, Cohn’s daughter having a Swastika placed on her door etc… Woodward does this better than anyone.

The book doesn’t do this alone of course but it also shows just how whacky Trump supporters are. It’s not a hatchet job; it’s an episodic prism of the White House; warts and all…not warts alone.

 

[basquebromance]

Did you pay for it?......sucker......

i heard it as an audiobook for free. i do that with all available political audiobooks. saves tons of money

 

[mudwhistle]

I am starting this thread so that people who have ACTUALLY READ THE BOOK can give their thoughts about what they read.

My thoughts (other than it was a FASCINATING 'read' - I highly recommend it):

1) it talks VERY little about the whole Russian thing...maybe 3-4 chapters. It often mentions Trump's anger about it, but (except for one or two chapters in the middle), it is not until the last few chapters that it REALLY goes into it.

I was surprised by how rarely Mueller is mentioned in the book.

2) the book does NOT give ANY evidence that Trump colluded with the Russians. It gives the impression that the only way Trump is guilty of collusion was if former people in his inner circle (Flynn, Manafort, etc.) turn on him and say damning things. Woodward does not say if Trump is guilty or innocent. But the general impression is that Woodward saw/heard nothing that Trump did wrong on this matter (though he does not exclude the possibility that things happened that he is not aware of).
And Woodward gives the impression - through what others said in the book - that the investigation may indeed have 'witch hunt' aspects to it.

I got the feeling that Woodward is writing 2 or 3 books. This was the first of a two or three book analysis of the Trump Presidency. He did two about Obama, three about W, two about Bill Clinton. He has more material and probably was trying to avoid overlap. I would imagine he would have plenty to write about the special counsel investigation as Quarrels and Dowd are clearly sources. The last chapters that did delve into the Mueller investigation were more of the same of the entire book.

The overriding theme about this - to me - was that Trump is his own worst enemy. And that there were two things about Trump's personality that are hurting him as much as anything - that he is not as smart as he thinks he is and that he is a liar.
These two things are mentioned over and over and over again in the book...from MANY different sources. That Trump is stupid (or, at least, far less intelligent than he thinks he is) and he lies...like crazy.
In fact, the final words of the book are attributed to his former lead attorney, John Dowd, a marine and a man who seemed genuinely fond of Trump;
'Trump had one overriding problem that Dowd knew, but could not bring himself to say to the President; you're a FUCKING liar'.

The best part of the book may be that Woodward didn’t take the easy bait of chronicling every lie that the blob told. I was worried that it would get into the weeds and just re-hash the galaxy of lies that we all know too well.

Trump’s stupidity was on full display with Cohn and the trade issue. The term “groundhog day” was so apropos.

The book gives the impression that if Trump had just shut up, fully co-operated (including testifying) and let the investigation go forward quietly...that it would be over long ago with few, major problems for Trump.
But, two major impediments got in the way. First, Trump is pissing EVERYONE off...making political enemies all over the place. And second - and maybe the biggest problem - his lawyers refuse to let Trump testify because they STRONGLY believe that Trump will perjure himself.
The impression Woodward gives is that Mueller is dying to question Trump and that Mueller will then deliberately ask Trump a question that he knows will make Trump furious. Then Trump will go nuts, do a five minute rant about it, and perjure himself ten ways from Sunday.
This is where Trump's penchant for lying/exaggerating/making up facts is so bad. And the worst part is - Trump does not seem to believe it. He thinks he is brilliant and honest.
To be fair to Trump - no one around him EVER seems to have the guts to tell him the truth. Maybe if more people whom he respected told him the truth, Trump would learn and smarten up.

He respects nobody. That’s the problem; he has a worldview that is incongruent with reality (shared by Bannon) and there is nothing that is going to change that. How many times was it explained to him that the trade deficit was not necessarily a bad thing and by how many people? He wasn’t going to change no matter what. And you see the effects in the tariffs.

As for the rest of the book?

I finished the book yesterday as well. I gave it some thought driving to dinner last evening. It wasn’t a great book. The details were great; I have no doubt as to it’s accuracy and I think that the book did a good job of giving us a picture of the Whitehouse but I first thought it was too scatter shot. But as we were sitting around the table eating coffee cake last night, it occurred to me that there is no beginning, middle, and end to the story because there is no beginning, middle, and end to what he was covering…

Most of it seems to deal with those around Trump trying to stop him from doing what he wants to do. And the others trying to get him to do what they want him to do.
I actually felt sorry for Trump at times.

Bannon was the clear opportunist in the book and took full advantage of Trump’s thickness.

And, IMO, not all of those giving advice were giving him good advice.
Trump strongly wanted America to pull troops out of NATO and South Korea. On this, I agree with him 100%. But, he is surrounded by neocons who kept telling him why he could not do this.
Trump was also TOTALLY against staying in Afghanistan (for great reasons, IMO). But, eventually, those around him wore him down and he gave in.

I was in agreement with you too on this until I listened to the book (I had the audio version on my phone). Now I think it would be unthinkable to withdraw troops from south Korea given the 7 second to 15 minute notification we would have of a missile launch.

What I didn’t understand was why, for example, was Sessions at a meeting about foreign policy? I would think the AG’s purview would be almost entirely domestic.

However, his trade deficit obsession is wrong (my words) and despite almost everyone trying to talk him out of his silly tariffs...he DID go ahead with those (obviously).

My believe is that - except for a few critical things (like his attempted tweet about pulling US service personnel out of South Korea) - I wish his 'people' would just let Trump do EXACTLY what he wanted to do and let the world (and Trump) see and learn from the results. If Trump would put his foot down more often, he would get more of what he wanted.
I am NOT saying they would be good for America. But at least they would show everyone (including Trump) whether his ideas really are as good as he thinks they are.

Walking back poor foreign policy decisions is very hard to do so I’m happy that Mattis and others are there to act as a hedge against total disaster. Like, for example, the part about withdrawing US Military member’s dependents from the peninsula and how that would be perceived by NK? The only conclusion that could be drawn is that there is impending military action about to be taken.

And the predictable disaster would just be blamed on someone else; Trump is incapable of learning anything that will challenge his worldview. Hence Bolton.

People who surprised me?
Rob Porter comes across in the book as someone who did a LOT of good by being a voice of reason whom Trump respected. And Gary Cohn also came across as a reasonable and decent person. Hope Hicks is mentioned favorably as well. As were Chief of Staff's Kelly and Priebus. And even Lindsey Graham looks good in the book. Forgetting he is a neocon (blah), he seems to be about as straight up with Trump as anyone. All of these people are described as calming Trump down when he goes on a rant and/or stopping him from making REALLY dumb mistakes/taking awful advice.

I think it was Matt Tiabbi who called Graham an “overgrown ventriloquist dummy”. Graham sounded exactly as I thought he would sound. The conversation they had about his—Graham--being “with me” (Trump) was pretty telling. Graham pointed out that if the issue was X he may be with him, if the issue is Y, he may not. Trump didn’t seem to understand that humans have this dimension. Great fun.

What was least surprising was that the President had a personal secretary who is 27 from Southern California.

View attachment 217710
shocking….


I was surprised that Trump was painted as being as thoughtful as he was portrayed. It wasn’t addressed in the book but I would assume that if he didn’t have people who were policy hawks in his White House, Trump would do nothing all day except watch TV and tweet. Put another way, Trump would likely not initiate anything on his own.

His traveling to Dover was surprising. Very surprising in fact.

Finally, except for painting Trump as self-centered, none-too-brilliant and a staggering liar (none of these things should come as a surprise to anyone with an open mind about him)...the book actually paints Trump in a FAR better light then the media seems to be making.

Sure, people took pages off of his desk. Big deal. It's not like he could not have said 'hey, where is that paper I was supposed to sign?'. But since his attention span is (apparently) so short, he quickly forgets about them.

Agree.

My conclusion about Trump from the book was that here is a man who DESPERATELY needs people around him who will TELL HIM THE TRUTH - no matter how much it hurts him.
Trump is a VERY flawed man. But maybe he would not be so flawed if those closest to him would stop bullshitting him all the time and just be dead straight with the guy.

I take the 180 degree opposite view.

He chases off those who do tell him the truth; he is immune from facts as his voting base.

——

I thought the book was like a big budget movie in the theaters these days. It sets up a sequel.

What I liked were the details. Like Mattis folding underwear, his walking down to Tillerson’s house to say hello, The time Barron came in with his friend for the photograph, Cohn’s daughter having a Swastika placed on her door etc… Woodward does this better than anyone.

The book doesn’t do this alone of course but it also shows just how whacky Trump supporters are. It’s not a hatchet job; it’s an episodic prism of the White House; warts and all…not warts alone.

I'm still waiting for the tell-all book about "Bathhouse Barry"

I don't expect one on Hillary any time soon. Last one who did that ended up crashing into the Pentagon on 911.

 

[Preacher]

I hope you returned it to the fiction section where it belongs.

 

[rightwinger]

Well for a guy who the left thinks is an idiot, liar and any other derogatory thing they can think of he's doing one fine job.

The economy is booming.

UE is the lowest its been in 49 years.

People have more money in their pay checks.

People like the direction the country is headed in.

I'd say the guy the left thinks in incompetent is very, very competent.

I'll take Trump any day.

He has single handedly destroyed our foreign policy, disrupted our alliances, started a poorly executed trade war and raised the deficit

 

[ColonelAngus]

If any of these "journalists" really wanted to do anything for the country, it would be to expose the Washington gravy train and how politicians get rich off the taxpayer dime.

I know these books exist, but they get marginalized.