I just don't understand

[MissileMan]

Maybe for you. Maybe others want to shout their faith to the mountain tops and tell everyone they encounter. This is permitted. This is what free speech means.

You are trying to IMPOSE YOUR IDEA of how people should relate to their faith. There is not legal basis for forcing religious speech into the closet.

No, I was offering an opinion of how a relationship with a deity should work if someone is going to have one. Are you trying to argue that your relationship with God isn't highly personal?

But, which is it you claim is being trampled on...freedom of religion or freedom of expression? Maybe you believe it's freedom of expression of religion. Either way, how are you equating your church with a closet? Why the compulsion to share? Why can't you do your thing and let everyone else do theirs?

 

[MissileMan]

The President has the right to have a member or members of religious organizations reflect his beliefs, though not to ESTABLISH those beliefs for the country.

Agreed, and some of the things the lefties get their panties in a twist over are so silly, like a benediction at the inauguration. I've stood quietly through many of them over the years, wasn't offended.

 

[Annie]

Agreed, and some of the things the lefties get their panties in a twist over are so silly, like a benediction at the inauguration. I've stood quietly through many of them over the years, wasn't offended.

I salute you on your common sense. By the same token, I would never try to convert a member of another religion, though I have no problem articulating what I believe. I will explain why, if asked. That is as far as I go. I know others will disagree with my take.

 

[5stringJeff]

Why the compulsion to share? Why can't you do your thing and let everyone else do theirs?

First, as Christians, we are compelled to share our faith. Jesus commands His followers to "Go forth, into all the world, and make disciples of all nations."

Second, someone that we share the gospel with may have never heard of it before. Yes, even here in America, there are those with no idea about what Christianity actually teaches. Some have misconceptions, and frankly, it's our duty as Christians to set such misconceptions straight, just as you attempted to set me straight about secularism. (BTW - secular, in my dictionary, reads: 1. Worldly, rather than spiritual. 2. Not specifically relating to religion or a religious body. 3. Relating to or advocating secularism. Pretty hard to be a Christian while at the same time being worldly and non-religious.)

 

[Bonnie]

It's not offensive in "general".. What's offensive is when Christians start attacking you, stating that you're going to hell because you don't believe what they believe, insisting you need to be "saved", etc. A good example is when I'm at work, and a customer feels the need to pass me one of her brochures prior to walking about the door, while stating "Here's a bit of information I think you can use." Christ, woman. I'm fucking at work. Keep your god damned religion in your house, and in your heart. I don't feel it necessary to point out my religious standing to others - I feel comfortable with it inside - that's all that matters. Not all Christians behave in a "zealot-like" manner, but there are enough that do to give the majority of Christians in general a bad name.

I agree it can be annoying, I don't see the point in foisting my belief on anyone else, but I don't mind if they just hand me literature, I just take it and say thanks that usually ends it right them and there. I do understand that Christians really feel like they want to spread the word, they feel they are doing something positive.

What's really annoying is when we go to chruch in NY for Easter mass and I get handed the Pope is a Nazi brochures and they get very aggressive about if they see you throw it in the garbage, which I promptly do!

 

[Bonnie]

No, I was offering an opinion of how a relationship with a deity should work if someone is going to have one. Are you trying to argue that your relationship with God isn't highly personal?

But, which is it you claim is being trampled on...freedom of religion or freedom of expression? Maybe you believe it's freedom of expression of religion. Either way, how are you equating your church with a closet? Why the compulsion to share? Why can't you do your thing and let everyone else do theirs?

Most of us do just that.......However we get offended when a prayer can't be offred at a public function just because it MAY make the few who are not Christian feel uncomfortable. I have been to a function or two in which a Jewish prayer was said aloud and being a Catholic I wasn't offended in the least, and if I was I would certainly Never make it everyone else's problem by saying no prayer of any kind!! That's crazy. I have all the tolerance in the world for other religions and even those with no faith, I do get angry yes when my rights of expression are squashed under this fake notion of Political Correctness, or a bogus twisting of Seperation of Church and State. It's easy to say you have tolerance while in the same breath saying do what ever you want just do it in private, that really negates the point of tolerance........

 

[MissileMan]

First, as Christians, we are compelled to share our faith. Jesus commands His followers to "Go forth, into all the world, and make disciples of all nations."

Second, someone that we share the gospel with may have never heard of it before. Yes, even here in America, there are those with no idea about what Christianity actually teaches. Some have misconceptions, and frankly, it's our duty as Christians to set such misconceptions straight, just as you attempted to set me straight about secularism. (BTW - secular, in my dictionary, reads: 1. Worldly, rather than spiritual. 2. Not specifically relating to religion or a religious body. 3. Relating to or advocating secularism. Pretty hard to be a Christian while at the same time being worldly and non-religious.)

So you can understand where I am coming from, my dictionary has:
Secularism: The belief that consideration of the present well-being of mankind should take precedence over religious considerations in civil affairs or public education.

 

[5stringJeff]

So you can understand where I am coming from, my dictionary has:
Secularism: The belief that consideration of the present well-being of mankind should take precedence over religious considerations in civil affairs or public education.

I would agree that government is not the place for religion. But banning any sliver of it from public life seems a bit extreme for me.

 

[MissileMan]

I would agree that government is not the place for religion. But banning any sliver of it from public life seems a bit extreme for me.

I'm not a proponent of that...references to God in the "Pledge of Allegiance", or the Declaration of Independence have historical significance.

 

[Hobbit]

I'm not a proponent of that...references to God in the "Pledge of Allegiance", or the Declaration of Independence have historical significance.

Then you are more reasonable than many. The Declaration and the story of Thanksgiving have been altered or ommitted in many schools because they'd "rather teach history than religion."

 

[MissileMan]

First, as Christians, we are compelled to share our faith. Jesus commands His followers to "Go forth, into all the world, and make disciples of all nations."

Christians are not the only religion with similar "compulsions". Allah told his followers to do the same thing, except some of them are taught if they can't convert you, they are further compelled to kill you.

Can't you see the strife that the compulsions of these two religions alone cause when they clash?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Allah told his followers to do the same thing, except some of them are taught if they can't convert you, they are further compelled to kill you.

That's why our country has a right to free speech, not free killing. Killing someone for not converting should definitely be illegal. Sharing one's faith verbally is just free speech. There's a difference here, though you attempt to whitewash.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

No, I was offering an opinion of how a relationship with a deity should work if someone is going to have one. Are you trying to argue that your relationship with God isn't highly personal?

But, which is it you claim is being trampled on...freedom of religion or freedom of expression? Maybe you believe it's freedom of expression of religion. Either way, how are you equating your church with a closet? Why the compulsion to share? Why can't you do your thing and let everyone else do theirs?

Can't you comprehend that free speech isn't limited to secular topics? Can't something be personal and at the same time be something you wish to share with others?

 

[MissileMan]

Can't you comprehend that free speech isn't limited to secular topics? Can't something be personal and at the same time be something you wish to share with others?

If you want to stand on a street corner and quote scripture at the top of your lungs, you are free to do so. I'm not arguing that. This is ok, because I have an option to cross the street so I don't have to hear it. When you start doing it in places where people work, or are trying to get an education, they might not have an option to "cross the street". What you are really hoping is that eventually, the federal government will step in to make us all a captive audience.

 

[dilloduck]

If you want to stand on a street corner and quote scripture at the top of your lungs, you are free to do so. I'm not arguing that. This is ok, because I have an option to cross the street so I don't have to hear it. When you start doing it in places where people work, or are trying to get an education, they might not have an option to "cross the street". What you are really hoping is that eventually, the federal government will step in to make us all a captive audience.

Oh please----I have to listen to crap I don't wanna hear all the time.

 

[MissileMan]

Oh please----I have to listen to crap I don't wanna hear all the time.

For instance?

 

[dilloduck]

For instance?

Live music at our city council meetings

 

[Shattered]

Is attendance at those city council meetings mandatory?

 

[MissileMan]

Live music at our city council meetings

Thats not much of a parallel.

 

[dilloduck]

Is attendance at those city council meetings mandatory?

It is if you want to participate in decisions made by the city govt!