I have been Called to the Principal's Office

[blu]

I just don't get why they are not giving back graded work right away. We always got our work back right away.

Last year when we had to write an essay in my Chinese history class, my teacher had them all back within in two to four days, and these were not short essays. And he had other classes. I don't remember waiting that long for assignments to come back when I was high school, maybe a week. If we corrected them in class, it was usually the next day, and that was only so they could input our grades.

In college teachers were scared to come to class if they didn't have tests graded by the next meeting. Papers usually were expected in a week.

 

[Samson]

I am absolutely on the edge of my chair, with bated breath. Please go on. (No sarcasm, I really want to know.)

Well, I wanted to make sure this wasn't an echo chamber.

I was armed with all the graded papers I'd received, so as the attendance sheet was passed around, I let the teachers pick out their graded papers, then asked my first question:

Is what papers I have all the papers I have asked to see? Basically I simply want to confirm that the OS hasn't been grossly negligent in bringing home the stuff.

Indeed, all said, "YES," except the English Teacher. She claimed to have kept papers, despite my repeated requests to see them, and, she didn't bring them to the meeting.

Ok, NEXT QUESTION:

Is there anyone here who doesn't understand my complaint: That I'm not seeing graded papers ONE/WEEK?

Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???

I am not only fascinated, I'm hearing echoes of a meeting my own mother once had with my principal. I'm extremely curious to find out if this one will make the same mistake that long-ago one did.

First: he wanted to know what a "graded paper" was?

This immediately set me off, so I explained to a HS Principal what was a graded paper.

Second: he didn't like my "tone."

I told him I didn't like his tone either.

Third he began with the list of excuses: classes meeting only two or three days per week, projects not being done for several weeks, the curriculum....yada, yada, yada.....I interrupted to say none of these excuses held any water, but he said, "Please don't interrupt, let me finish."

So I let him babble on, then said I didn't care about whether they met ONE, TWO, THREE, Four, or FIVE Days a week, I wanted to see some measure of learning on a weekly basis in each subject....

Then he interrupted ME!

I told him that he would please allow ME to finish, and continued to explain that it was embarrassing for me to review what I considered "Teaching 101" with him, but asked, "You do realize that parents are interested in what their kids are doing in school, right?"

He didn't answer, just stared at me.

 

[blu]

Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:

Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject

I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."

My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade

I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.


WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???

It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!

GODDAMN? WTF??

Am I being completely unreasonable???

What really amuses me about this is that teachers and other public school affiliates love to blame the declining quality of public education on a lack of parental involvement.

Samson IS QUITE UNINVOLVED! He won't even review his kid's tests and quizzes!

 

[editec]

Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:

Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject

I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."

My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade

I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.


WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???

It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!

GODDAMN? WTF??

Am I being completely unreasonable???

Yes, I think you are.

When I taught full time I had 150 students and gave 25 academic lectures or classes a week. Do you have any idea how much prep work that demanded of me?

I didn't have time to send parents reports every week.

I really didn't have enough time to give the students the individual attention they often needed.

 

[blu]

Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:

Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject

I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."

My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade

I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.


WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???

It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!

GODDAMN? WTF??

Am I being completely unreasonable???

It's the teachers fault your 10th grader is a fuck up?

Interesting.

my stepson gets straight As but he knows that every tuesday (grade day) he better have brought his folder home with everything in it. you are a jackass if you aren't reviewing what your kids do in school

 

[xotoxi]

Well, I wanted to make sure this wasn't an echo chamber.

I was armed with all the graded papers I'd received, so as the attendance sheet was passed around, I let the teachers pick out their graded papers, then asked my first question:

Is what papers I have all the papers I have asked to see? Basically I simply want to confirm that the OS hasn't been grossly negligent in bringing home the stuff.

Indeed, all said, "YES," except the English Teacher. She claimed to have kept papers, despite my repeated requests to see them, and, she didn't bring them to the meeting.

Ok, NEXT QUESTION:

Is there anyone here who doesn't understand my complaint: That I'm not seeing graded papers ONE/WEEK?

Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???

I am not only fascinated, I'm hearing echoes of a meeting my own mother once had with my principal. I'm extremely curious to find out if this one will make the same mistake that long-ago one did.

First: he wanted to know what a "graded paper" was?

This immediately set me off, so I explained to a HS Principal what was a graded paper.

Second: he didn't like my "tone."

I told him I didn't like his tone either.

Third he began with the list of excuses: classes meeting only two or three days per week, projects not being done for several weeks, the curriculum....yada, yada, yada.....I interrupted to say none of these excuses held any water, but he said, "Please don't interrupt, let me finish."

So I let him babble on, then said I didn't care about whether they met ONE, TWO, THREE, Four, or FIVE Days a week, I wanted to see some measure of learning on a weekly basis in each subject....

Then he interrupted ME!

I told him that he would please allow ME to finish, and continued to explain that it was embarrassing for me to review what I considered "Teaching 101" with him, but asked, "You do realize that parents are interested in what their kids are doing in school, right?"

He didn't answer, just stared at me.

Then you guys shared your octopus fetishes?

 

[blu]

That's why meeting with principal, student, teacher and yourself is probably a good idea. Classes are probably 45-50 minutes. Depending on the subject and project to be assessed, the class time might well be used to teach how to address aspects of the assignment. Then again, that should be clear by syllabus.

Lower grades tend to have 'daily work' as much of the work is actually teaching the process of mastering work. By 7th or 8th grades, the student should know how he needs to acquire mastery of tasks. (For instance, learning how to memorize vocab. Learning math facts-kids learn different ways of getting to the same end.)

Needed vocabulary is listed in each text at the beginning or end of each lesson. By high school it's assumed the student recognizes such. The student is expected to be using the skills learned, not for grade, but because they are intricate to mastery.

While I agree with this, I see no need to "assume the student recognizes such" for vocabulary, or anything else. I'm not asking for a daily assessment. I simply want a weekly quiz. 5 questions?

Is that too much to freakin' ask? If so, why?

To my way of thinking, if your kid already knows all the relevant vocabulary, then that means they're just reviewing things he's already learned instead of teaching him anything new. It's not like biology vocabulary - for example - is commonly used in everyday language. It's technical jargon, for crying out loud, and if the subject matter's new, then it is by God going to have new vocabulary he's never heard or used before.

10th grade bio vocab isn't 'technical jargon', it is generally referred to as 'common knowledge'

 

[Cecilie1200]

Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:

Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject

I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."

My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade

I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.


WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???

It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!

GODDAMN? WTF??

Am I being completely unreasonable???

Yes, I think you are.

When I taught full time I had 150 students and gave 25 academic lectures or classes a week. Do you have any idea how much prep work that demanded of me?

I didn't have time to send parents reports every week.

I really didn't have enough time to give the students the individual attention they often needed.

So then you don't spend a lot of time whining about how the problems of the public school system and its inmates (the students) can all be laid at the feet of uninvolved, lackadaisical parents? Since it sounds to me like you resent the hell out of parents expecting to have any involvement or input into their children's education.

I'm curious, though. Under your "shut the fuck up and let me do things the way I want" system, what happened when a student was having serious problems?

 

[Samson]

Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:

Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject

I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."

My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade

I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.


WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???

It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!

GODDAMN? WTF??

Am I being completely unreasonable???

Yes, I think you are.

When I taught full time I had 150 students and gave 25 academic lectures or classes a week. Do you have any idea how much prep work that demanded of me?

I didn't have time to send parents reports every week.

I really didn't have enough time to give the students the individual attention they often needed.

I appreciate the POV.

Yes, I know exactly how much prep work that demanded, I've done it too.

However, if you don't measure whether or not your prep/lectures are effective then its a waste of time, and if parents want it, then why wouldn't you make it a priority?

 

[Samson]

Then you guys shared your octopus fetishes?

Do you really have to ask?

 

[Ravi]

Samson, did they frisk you before allowing you on to school grounds? Reason I ask is that you come across as pretty hostile and for the safety of all concerned it would have been an excellent idea.

 

[blu]

Well, I wanted to make sure this wasn't an echo chamber.

I was armed with all the graded papers I'd received, so as the attendance sheet was passed around, I let the teachers pick out their graded papers, then asked my first question:

Is what papers I have all the papers I have asked to see? Basically I simply want to confirm that the OS hasn't been grossly negligent in bringing home the stuff.

Indeed, all said, "YES," except the English Teacher. She claimed to have kept papers, despite my repeated requests to see them, and, she didn't bring them to the meeting.

Ok, NEXT QUESTION:

Is there anyone here who doesn't understand my complaint: That I'm not seeing graded papers ONE/WEEK?

Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???

I am not only fascinated, I'm hearing echoes of a meeting my own mother once had with my principal. I'm extremely curious to find out if this one will make the same mistake that long-ago one did.

First: he wanted to know what a "graded paper" was?

This immediately set me off, so I explained to a HS Principal what was a graded paper.

Second: he didn't like my "tone."

I told him I didn't like his tone either.

Third he began with the list of excuses: classes meeting only two or three days per week, projects not being done for several weeks, the curriculum....yada, yada, yada.....I interrupted to say none of these excuses held any water, but he said, "Please don't interrupt, let me finish."

So I let him babble on, then said I didn't care about whether they met ONE, TWO, THREE, Four, or FIVE Days a week, I wanted to see some measure of learning on a weekly basis in each subject....

Then he interrupted ME!

I told him that he would please allow ME to finish, and continued to explain that it was embarrassing for me to review what I considered "Teaching 101" with him, but asked, "You do realize that parents are interested in what their kids are doing in school, right?"

He didn't answer, just stared at me.

is this the end? I can't imagine you walked out at this point

 

[lizzie]

Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:

Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject

I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."

My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade

I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.


WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???

It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!

GODDAMN? WTF??

Am I being completely unreasonable???

No, you're not being unreasonable at all. It's been quite some time since I had school-age children, and even then, it was akin to pulling teeth just to get notified if there was a problem with your child. Several times, I had to go to the school to address a problem that I had no idea was happening until it became a major issue.

 

[syrenn]

So the next step is the the school superintendent. Lodge formal complaints about the principal and teachers, on paper that are sent certified mail. Keep records of all conversations now Samson, and dont lose your temper.

I am so sorry that this has gone so badly. Obviously you are not going to get any help for either the teachers or the principal. I cant believe he asked you what graded paper is! That is an inexcusable statement. I feel that the bottom line here is that they are not going to do what you are requesting.



If you can afford private school Samson you may want to consider it as an option.

 

[FireGod]

You do realize that this would not be an issue if they were in private school don't you?

I tell ya, the principal will get fed up eventually and turn it all over to the teacher in the end. This is going to be a squeaky wheel deal.

I'm astonished its an issue in a public school!

I really expected that IF the teachers whined about MY POLICY, then the admin would tell the teacher to grow a pair, and get a fucking graded paper out ONCE A GODDAMN WEEK!!

I'm wondering if there's something I'm not aware of that has made this principal such a weinie.

YOUR policy doesn't matter. THIER policy rules the roost.

Don't discount the fact that the teachers actually want to do the right thing but the administration has so much bureaucratic bullshit in the way. I've never seen a good Principal get in the way of involved parents getting things done, but I've seen plenty of bad ones do it.

That reminds me, calling Child Protective Services is an option for these hacks. It's an intimidation factor used quite a bit.

You can call CPS on the school?

Never thought of that.

BTW good thread, thanks

 

[Foxfyre]

Since the beginning of the school year about a month ago, I have requested that:

Teachers send me ONE graded paper per week per subject

I stipulate it must be a paper, graded, as opposed to their practice of simply showing the grade in an online gradebook called "Infinite Campus."

My intent is to SEE whatever the hell they're teaching, and if it is being learned. You cannot do this just by looking at the grade

I also stated that if I didn't see graded papers, then I'd need to see THEM AND the graded papers, and we could arrange a meeting.


WELL, apparently this is proving to be An Issue for which I must see the principal!!!???

It seems some teachers are just overwhelmed with the prospect of teaching anything that may be worth assessing the value on a weekly basis!!!!!

GODDAMN? WTF??

Am I being completely unreasonable???

Yes, I think you are.

When I taught full time I had 150 students and gave 25 academic lectures or classes a week. Do you have any idea how much prep work that demanded of me?

I didn't have time to send parents reports every week.

I really didn't have enough time to give the students the individual attention they often needed.

Well that is unfortunate. But having received an excellent education through highschool myself, all the classes were 30 or more kids, and there were six periods every day and none of them were study hall. Every teacher taught at least five periods. And quizzes and tests and occasional assigned papers were a regular part of it and they were graded and returned to us usually the next door or at most a few days. Parent/teacher conferences were regularly scheduled two or three times a year and teachers did have time for kids who had questions after class.

So how did my teachers manage? Or my kids' teachers?

Now admittedly there was a strictly enforced dress code, conduct expectations, etc. and any kid who didn't accommodate those was bounced out immediately. And the graduation rate was still in the high 90 percentile.

So it can be done. But it does require a different way of thinking than how school these days is accomplished.

 

[Cecilie1200]

While I agree with this, I see no need to "assume the student recognizes such" for vocabulary, or anything else. I'm not asking for a daily assessment. I simply want a weekly quiz. 5 questions?

Is that too much to freakin' ask? If so, why?

To my way of thinking, if your kid already knows all the relevant vocabulary, then that means they're just reviewing things he's already learned instead of teaching him anything new. It's not like biology vocabulary - for example - is commonly used in everyday language. It's technical jargon, for crying out loud, and if the subject matter's new, then it is by God going to have new vocabulary he's never heard or used before.

10th grade bio vocab isn't 'technical jargon', it is generally referred to as 'common knowledge'

If it was "common knowledge", they wouldn't have to teach a class on it in high school.

Some examples of technical jargon used in 10th grade biology class that one doesn't generally learn in everyday conversation:

Lysosome
Endoplasmic reticulum
Autotroph
Punnett Square
Prokaryotes
Trophic Level

Would you really like to tell us that you knew the meanings of all of these words when you went into sophomore biology class, and didn't need to be taught what they were? That you habitually discussed these things on a regular basis? I sincerely doubt you would know the definitions NOW without looking them up. Most people who don't work in a related field wouldn't.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well, I wanted to make sure this wasn't an echo chamber.

I was armed with all the graded papers I'd received, so as the attendance sheet was passed around, I let the teachers pick out their graded papers, then asked my first question:

Is what papers I have all the papers I have asked to see? Basically I simply want to confirm that the OS hasn't been grossly negligent in bringing home the stuff.

Indeed, all said, "YES," except the English Teacher. She claimed to have kept papers, despite my repeated requests to see them, and, she didn't bring them to the meeting.

Ok, NEXT QUESTION:

Is there anyone here who doesn't understand my complaint: That I'm not seeing graded papers ONE/WEEK?

Ya wanna know what the PRINCIPAL SAID???

I am not only fascinated, I'm hearing echoes of a meeting my own mother once had with my principal. I'm extremely curious to find out if this one will make the same mistake that long-ago one did.

First: he wanted to know what a "graded paper" was?

This immediately set me off, so I explained to a HS Principal what was a graded paper.

Second: he didn't like my "tone."

I told him I didn't like his tone either.

Third he began with the list of excuses: classes meeting only two or three days per week, projects not being done for several weeks, the curriculum....yada, yada, yada.....I interrupted to say none of these excuses held any water, but he said, "Please don't interrupt, let me finish."

So I let him babble on, then said I didn't care about whether they met ONE, TWO, THREE, Four, or FIVE Days a week, I wanted to see some measure of learning on a weekly basis in each subject....

Then he interrupted ME!

I told him that he would please allow ME to finish, and continued to explain that it was embarrassing for me to review what I considered "Teaching 101" with him, but asked, "You do realize that parents are interested in what their kids are doing in school, right?"

He didn't answer, just stared at me.

You probably already know this, but with that kind of attitude from adminsitration, I would keep a close eye on things. This guy may try to punish you for your impudence through your kids.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I am not only fascinated, I'm hearing echoes of a meeting my own mother once had with my principal. I'm extremely curious to find out if this one will make the same mistake that long-ago one did.

First: he wanted to know what a "graded paper" was?

This immediately set me off, so I explained to a HS Principal what was a graded paper.

Second: he didn't like my "tone."

I told him I didn't like his tone either.

Third he began with the list of excuses: classes meeting only two or three days per week, projects not being done for several weeks, the curriculum....yada, yada, yada.....I interrupted to say none of these excuses held any water, but he said, "Please don't interrupt, let me finish."

So I let him babble on, then said I didn't care about whether they met ONE, TWO, THREE, Four, or FIVE Days a week, I wanted to see some measure of learning on a weekly basis in each subject....

Then he interrupted ME!

I told him that he would please allow ME to finish, and continued to explain that it was embarrassing for me to review what I considered "Teaching 101" with him, but asked, "You do realize that parents are interested in what their kids are doing in school, right?"

He didn't answer, just stared at me.

You probably already know this, but with that kind of attitude from adminsitration, I would keep a close eye on things. This guy may try to punish you for your impudence through your kids.

If he does, he wins the award for Least Perceptive Judge of Character for this decade. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Samson's NOT the person to fuck with in that way.

 

[Samson]

before I said, "yes, exactly, I'm embarrassed to even need to ask."

Then I went through "Teaching 101:"

1. Present a concept that is in the curriculum
2. Have the student demonstrate learning
3. Grade the learning on a scale (usually 0-100)
4. Reteach the concept if learning is not demonstrated
5. Rinse, Wash, Repeat.

Not really very complicated.

Anyway, the English Teacher wanted to continue to harange me about being "disrespected" and my "tone" and "How she felt" and how all this had prevented her from communicating her excuses for not having sent home any graded work for 4 weeks....yada, yada.....

I told her not to waste my time trying to make this her emotional issue, as there was nothing, "madame," that I could do to cure it. Furthermore the remedy was quite simple: send graded work home every week.

I asked if there were any other questions. There were none.

Then I presented the principal with the district's Public Complaint Policy, a form he claimed never to have seen. I told him we had completed it through step 4, and then showed him the Complaint Form that he had seen, then I excused myself from the meeting.