I ask that those right of center not reply to this thread

Affordable housing for the middle class and working class through both rent control and loans less than 50K. There are those that can afford the mortgage payments but cannot afford the down payment because the rent keeps getting jacked up. The ability to purchase homes instead of dealing with a landlord will allow people to invest in their own property which slum lords don't like to do, reduce crime by anchoring people rather than have a high turnover or transient population and pay property taxes.
Rent caps? I'm dubious, but I'll add it.

Look everyone! The troll changed his plan and is now compiling a list. He's dutifully turning your well thought out replies into bumper stickers.....that he will present after a day or so as the left's prescription for the middle class!

Let's see what he's got so far:

1. Raise taxes on the rich. ( transaction tax )
2. More handouts to the poor...especially minorities. ( rent caps )
3. Steal stuff and give it to those who didn't earn it. ( Ben Franklin quote )

How am I doin?

How are you doin'? Frankly, you sound panicked.
Given a sounding board to express their thoughts, self-described lefties here have openly promoted all manner of socialist thought. I saw no one suggest that minorities get an extra dose of the confiscated loot but I will still give you credit for summing up their thoughts. I will get busy printing those bumper stickers.
Hey, I'll make a fortune selling them!
Thanks.
Ain't capitalism grand? :D
 
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So you don't think that being PART OF US society helped create WEALTH of those 'job creators' huh?


Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

America's capitalist economy sets the table. It has enabled millions to become "the owners." I would remind you that the bottom 50% of earners carry VIRTUALLY NONE of the federal income tax load. The infrastructure and security we ALL enjoy is paid for by the top 50% of earners. America allows all to join the party but guarantees none.

You mean HEAVY progressive policies created the worlds largest middle class? Bottom half of US who went from nearly 18% of the pie to 11% since Reaganomics and carry twice the local/state tax burden of the top 1%ers and that piece of federal revenues that is only 42% of the pie, income taxes???


AmeriKa has been turned, to benefit a few at the expense of many

George Washington, nine months before his inauguration as the first president, predicted that America "will be the most favorable country of any kind in the world for persons of industry and frugality, possessed of moderate capital, to inhabit." And, he continued, "it will not be less advantageous to the happiness of the lowest class of people, because of the equal distribution of property."


http://www.newsweek.com/2014/02/07/why-thomas-jefferson-favored-profit-sharing-245454.html

Nah, I'm not talking about pie but rather stating that America (or AmeriKa as some might say) offers the opportunity to be the rich ... not the guarantee. I take it you didn't get that which you believe you are entitled to. Sorry.
 
For those of you on the left.

The question is very simple, but with a very complex answer.

Detail what it is that you think will benefit the Middle Class.

Now, by benefit, I mean provide a means for them to retain their middle class status and to begin advancing themselves upward.

Take your time. Be specific and as detailed as you can.

First and foremost, personal responsibility and personal development (education, vocation, etc.). If one has a hobby and or skill, try to start your own small business, but resist getting ones self into debt doing it. Utilize the programs that are already available to help people who want to succeed (SBA, etc.). Act like a legal immigrant and copy what makes some of them successful (hard work, dedication, and diligence).

Some people may state that it takes a lot of money to start your own business and depending on the business, that may be true. But one can start on a small scale; a mechanic, plumber, electrician, HVAC, accountant, bookkeeper, graphic artist, title examiner, welder, janitor etc. can start with doing "side jobs" and let it grow from there. My stepson delivers oil during the day and then takes his girlfriend with him to go deliver Chinese food and they have a blast.

Some people have hobbies, mine are Tennis and Dog training; so I use those skills to earn extra income. What's great about a hobby, is that I would do it for free, so getting paid for doing what I would do for free is an added bonus. I have a friend who loves to go to "garage sales" and then flip them on Ebay, she's always going to the post office and mailing those items she sells on Ebay.

With all of this Ebay and Craigslist, plus FB, the sky is the limit!

It all starts with us primarily.
 
So you don't think that being PART OF US society helped create WEALTH of those 'job creators' huh?


Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

America's capitalist economy sets the table. It has enabled millions to become "the owners." I would remind you that the bottom 50% of earners carry VIRTUALLY NONE of the federal income tax load. The infrastructure and security we ALL enjoy is paid for by the top 50% of earners. America allows all to join the party but guarantees none.

80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated.

Too bad conservatives get their economic education from Rush and Fox who parrot Heritage Foundation talking points.

You smarmy, pompous jackass. I've had my financial head handed to me since 2007 but I never blamed anyone else. It was just how the worm turned.
I learned my lessons at State U. and on the street where those who can do and those who can't whine about those who can. :D
 
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Disir, right to work means just that, right to work. Unions have run roughshod over American industry too long, look what they've done to Auto industry. I would like to have a choice of whom I work for, rather than be coaxed, pushed or prodded to join some union backed company.

:eusa_hand: Everybody benefits in states that have unions. Even if you don't belong in one. Just as a heads up the union didn't destroy the auto industry. Crap ass vehicles and gas guzzlers and making vehicles (by design) that cost too much that fall apart too quickly destroyed the auto industry.
Yes ok union workers of the 70 a and 8os are blameless.

Trying to hold union workers hostage to crap ass car designs is ignorant. Further, by the 90s you see total disregard for the automobile and people at the top just taking the cash and running. You don't have to like it but there it is.
 
Disir, right to work means just that, right to work. Unions have run roughshod over American industry too long, look what they've done to Auto industry. I would like to have a choice of whom I work for, rather than be coaxed, pushed or prodded to join some union backed company.

I'd love it if you were able to explain how "Right to work" laws provide a "right" to work.

Right to Work laws are nothing more than Big Government putting their nose into private contracts on behalf of management.
 
For those of you on the left.

The question is very simple, but with a very complex answer.

Detail what it is that you think will benefit the Middle Class.

Now, by benefit, I mean provide a means for them to retain their middle class status and to begin advancing themselves upward.

Take your time. Be specific and as detailed as you can.

Make education more affordable for college students, and expand secondary education to include much more vocational or specialized training. Kids racking up $100,000 or more in debt just to go to college doesn't make sense and is not good for the economy. The liberal arts degree or general business degree is a waste for most people.

My youngest son is a bit lazy but he has real talent when it comes to graphic design. He's done some pretty awesome things in his high school program. He is going to a school where almost all of the focus is on graphic design rather than a general education. The problem is the cost is extremely high and he will have to go to school out of state.

While I do not subscribe to the idea that college should be free or paid fully through tax dollars, the cost has spiraled completely out of control compared to what it was when I went to school.

The other thing that I believe is extremely important is to continue to work at reducing overall costs for healthcare. I do not have an answer as to how we accomplish this because it isn't something government can do alone. It has to be between government and the private sector. The cause of our extremely high medical costs are not because of insurance companies or the government but stem from the way we deliver healthcare. That is what must be changed. I can have an MRI at the hospital for $2000 to $3000 or at a stand alone imaging center for around $500. That needs to change.
 
Disir, right to work means just that, right to work. Unions have run roughshod over American industry too long, look what they've done to Auto industry. I would like to have a choice of whom I work for, rather than be coaxed, pushed or prodded to join some union backed company.

I'd love it if you were able to explain how "Right to work" laws provide a "right" to work.

Right to Work laws are nothing more than Big Government putting their nose into private contracts on behalf of management.

Actually R2W is Big Gov't removing its nose from private contracts. It is "union states" in which Big G requires obedience to unions in work relations.
 
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Disir, right to work means just that, right to work. Unions have run roughshod over American industry too long, look what they've done to Auto industry. I would like to have a choice of whom I work for, rather than be coaxed, pushed or prodded to join some union backed company.

I'd love it if you were able to explain how "Right to work" laws provide a "right" to work.

Right to Work laws are nothing more than Big Government putting their nose into private contracts on behalf of management.

Actually R2W is Big Gov't removing its nose from private contracts. It is "union states" in which Big G requires union obedience in work relations.

I know that you guys like to pretend that's true, but it's not.

Right-to-work law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
For those of you on the left.

The question is very simple, but with a very complex answer.

Detail what it is that you think will benefit the Middle Class.

Now, by benefit, I mean provide a means for them to retain their middle class status and to begin advancing themselves upward.

Take your time. Be specific and as detailed as you can.
A commitment by society to create middle class jobs. The quick answer is to discard right wing, failed economic policies that have harmed the vast majority of people in the US. Allowing people to organize freely, and ending restrictions towards those aims, would allow the markets to better decide wages, instead of having everything so one sided.
The people didn't want unions , look at the recent volkswagon vote look at the Scott.walker recall
That highlights the way companies and right wing politicians use threats and thuggery to dissuade people from joining a union. Which is why the process needs to be fixed, to hold union votes sooner, before the companies can use scare tactics. In the VW case, it wasn't the company using the scare tactics, as it was only the politicians. But early on, most workers seemed to be receptive to a union before Governors, Senators and congressmen started weighing in with threats to workers' livelihoods.

As for Scott Walker, the people in Wisconsin are definitely having buyer's remorse for voting for a slimey dope like him.
 
America's capitalist economy sets the table. It has enabled millions to become "the owners." I would remind you that the bottom 50% of earners carry VIRTUALLY NONE of the federal income tax load. The infrastructure and security we ALL enjoy is paid for by the top 50% of earners. America allows all to join the party but guarantees none.

You mean HEAVY progressive policies created the worlds largest middle class? Bottom half of US who went from nearly 18% of the pie to 11% since Reaganomics and carry twice the local/state tax burden of the top 1%ers and that piece of federal revenues that is only 42% of the pie, income taxes???


AmeriKa has been turned, to benefit a few at the expense of many

George Washington, nine months before his inauguration as the first president, predicted that America "will be the most favorable country of any kind in the world for persons of industry and frugality, possessed of moderate capital, to inhabit." And, he continued, "it will not be less advantageous to the happiness of the lowest class of people, because of the equal distribution of property."


http://www.newsweek.com/2014/02/07/why-thomas-jefferson-favored-profit-sharing-245454.html

Nah, I'm not talking about pie but rather stating that America (or AmeriKa as some might say) offers the opportunity to be the rich ... not the guarantee. I take it you didn't get that which you believe you are entitled to. Sorry.


Sure you are. After all according to mad men and conservatives, growth is always unlimited




If I 'make' a million dollars, I accumulated money from other people. I'm not actually producing cash, I'm acquiring theirs. Therefore, others have collectively lost a million dollars of purchasing power to me.

These people can't go demand new money just because I have all of their money.

They go broke, I get rich, and income inequality is a thing





Wealth is a Zero-Sum Game

Conservative damagogues like Limbaugh have been able to convince the public that the huge incomes of the wealthiest Americans are irrelevant to those who make moderate-to-low incomes. They even suggest that the more money the wealthiest Americans make, the more wealth will trickle down to the lower classes.

If you've swallowed this line of conservative garbage, get ready to vomit. As all conservative economists know, and deny to the public that they know, wealth is a zero-sum game. That is true at both the front end—when income is divided up, and the back end—when it is spent.

The Front End of Zero-Sum: Dividing the Loot

There is only so much corporate income in a given year.


The more of that income that is used to pay workers, the less profit the corporation makes. The less profit, the less the stock goes up. The less the stock goes up, the less the CEO and the investors make. It’s as simple as that. Profit equals income minus expenses. No more, no less. Subtract the right side of the equation from the left side and the answer is always zero. Hence the term, “zero-sum.”


The Zero-sum Nature of economics
 
For those of you on the left.

The question is very simple, but with a very complex answer.

Detail what it is that you think will benefit the Middle Class.

Now, by benefit, I mean provide a means for them to retain their middle class status and to begin advancing themselves upward.

Take your time. Be specific and as detailed as you can.

First and foremost, personal responsibility and personal development (education, vocation, etc.). If one has a hobby and or skill, try to start your own small business, but resist getting ones self into debt doing it. Utilize the programs that are already available to help people who want to succeed (SBA, etc.). Act like a legal immigrant and copy what makes some of them successful (hard work, dedication, and diligence).

Some people may state that it takes a lot of money to start your own business and depending on the business, that may be true. But one can start on a small scale; a mechanic, plumber, electrician, HVAC, accountant, bookkeeper, graphic artist, title examiner, welder, janitor etc. can start with doing "side jobs" and let it grow from there. My stepson delivers oil during the day and then takes his girlfriend with him to go deliver Chinese food and they have a blast.

Some people have hobbies, mine are Tennis and Dog training; so I use those skills to earn extra income. What's great about a hobby, is that I would do it for free, so getting paid for doing what I would do for free is an added bonus. I have a friend who loves to go to "garage sales" and then flip them on Ebay, she's always going to the post office and mailing those items she sells on Ebay.

With all of this Ebay and Craigslist, plus FB, the sky is the limit!

It all starts with us primarily.

Myths right wingers push. US ranks 14th in the developed world in social mobility
 
You mean HEAVY progressive policies created the worlds largest middle class? Bottom half of US who went from nearly 18% of the pie to 11% since Reaganomics and carry twice the local/state tax burden of the top 1%ers and that piece of federal revenues that is only 42% of the pie, income taxes???


AmeriKa has been turned, to benefit a few at the expense of many

George Washington, nine months before his inauguration as the first president, predicted that America "will be the most favorable country of any kind in the world for persons of industry and frugality, possessed of moderate capital, to inhabit." And, he continued, "it will not be less advantageous to the happiness of the lowest class of people, because of the equal distribution of property."


http://www.newsweek.com/2014/02/07/why-thomas-jefferson-favored-profit-sharing-245454.html

Nah, I'm not talking about pie but rather stating that America (or AmeriKa as some might say) offers the opportunity to be the rich ... not the guarantee. I take it you didn't get that which you believe you are entitled to. Sorry.


Sure you are. After all according to mad men and conservatives, growth is always unlimited




If I 'make' a million dollars, I accumulated money from other people. I'm not actually producing cash, I'm acquiring theirs. Therefore, others have collectively lost a million dollars of purchasing power to me.

These people can't go demand new money just because I have all of their money.

They go broke, I get rich, and income inequality is a thing





Wealth is a Zero-Sum Game

Conservative damagogues like Limbaugh have been able to convince the public that the huge incomes of the wealthiest Americans are irrelevant to those who make moderate-to-low incomes. They even suggest that the more money the wealthiest Americans make, the more wealth will trickle down to the lower classes.

If you've swallowed this line of conservative garbage, get ready to vomit. As all conservative economists know, and deny to the public that they know, wealth is a zero-sum game. That is true at both the front end—when income is divided up, and the back end—when it is spent.

The Front End of Zero-Sum: Dividing the Loot

There is only so much corporate income in a given year.


The more of that income that is used to pay workers, the less profit the corporation makes. The less profit, the less the stock goes up. The less the stock goes up, the less the CEO and the investors make. It’s as simple as that. Profit equals income minus expenses. No more, no less. Subtract the right side of the equation from the left side and the answer is always zero. Hence the term, “zero-sum.”


The Zero-sum Nature of economics

Whiny socialist silliness. If I sell my services, my labor, my time, my knowledge, or my property to others I accumulate their cash. Of course, I will use that cash to buy the labor, time, knowledge, services and property of others. The gov't will take its slice of all these transactions ostensibly to pay for gov't functions but increasingly to provide goods and services to America's least willing or able to provide for themselves.
We even have a name for America's new form of gov't ... Ineptocracy
Urban Dictionary: Ineptocracy
 
I'd love it if you were able to explain how "Right to work" laws provide a "right" to work.

Right to Work laws are nothing more than Big Government putting their nose into private contracts on behalf of management.

Actually R2W is Big Gov't removing its nose from private contracts. It is "union states" in which Big G requires union obedience in work relations.

I know that you guys like to pretend that's true, but it's not.

Right-to-work law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is only one of me here and your source agrees with my assessment. R2W states protect workers from union enslavement.
R2W states limit "the extent to which an established union can require employees' membership, payment of union dues, or fees as a condition of employment, either before or after hiring."
 
A commitment by society to create middle class jobs. The quick answer is to discard right wing, failed economic policies that have harmed the vast majority of people in the US. Allowing people to organize freely, and ending restrictions towards those aims, would allow the markets to better decide wages, instead of having everything so one sided.
The people didn't want unions , look at the recent volkswagon vote look at the Scott.walker recall
That highlights the way companies and right wing politicians use threats and thuggery to dissuade people from joining a union. Which is why the process needs to be fixed, to hold union votes sooner, before the companies can use scare tactics. In the VW case, it wasn't the company using the scare tactics, as it was only the politicians. But early on, most workers seemed to be receptive to a union before Governors, Senators and congressmen started weighing in with threats to workers' livelihoods.

As for Scott Walker, the people in Wisconsin are definitely having buyer's remorse for voting for a slimey dope like him.

In my town it is the thuggery of trade unions which distorts and destroys the business climate. The price paid here, as in Detroit, is development.
 
Actually R2W is Big Gov't removing its nose from private contracts. It is "union states" in which Big G requires union obedience in work relations.

I know that you guys like to pretend that's true, but it's not.

Right-to-work law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is only one of me here and your source agrees with my assessment. R2W states protect workers from union enslavement.
R2W states limit "the extent to which an established union can require employees' membership, payment of union dues, or fees as a condition of employment, either before or after hiring."

The fact that Right to Work laws "limit" private contracts between non-governmental entities does not agree with your "assessment".

Why are you so in favor of Big Government telling you what can or cannot be included in private contracts? How is that "removing it's nose"?
 
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If Darkwind is really just writing down these insanely simply minded ideas people are giving it will be hilarious when he posts them a a whole.

Basically it will come down to:

Free HC
Free homes
Free education (forever)
Free energy
High wages
Long paid vacations

All paid for by higher taxes on the rich to make them near or middle class... making one wonder, after all the rich are middle class and no one can become rich but can't really be poor as everything they need is free.... who will strive for anything other than meritocracy at best? Then, who will be paying these taxes to keep everything "free."? Same problems from bad "solutions," just a different moment in time that someone is selling the bad ideas.

I guess I can respond because I'm not really left or right...
 
I believe Dad was referring to confiscating the wealth of the others, not his wealth. In the next post Disir repeats that theme by suggesting "rent controls" which, of course, are the confiscation of the wealth of property owners.

So you don't think that being PART OF US society helped create WEALTH of those 'job creators' huh?


Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

America's capitalist economy sets the table. It has enabled millions to become "the owners." I would remind you that the bottom 50% of earners carry VIRTUALLY NONE of the federal income tax load. The infrastructure and security we ALL enjoy is paid for by the top 50% of earners. America allows all to join the party but guarantees none.

I am so sick of that weakass argument. The rich pay more dollars overall because they make more dollars. It is not rocket science.
 
If Darkwind is really just writing down these insanely simply minded ideas people are giving it will be hilarious when he posts them a a whole.

Basically it will come down to:

Free HC
Free homes
Free education (forever)
Free energy
High wages
Long paid vacations

All paid for by higher taxes on the rich to make them near or middle class... making one wonder, after all the rich are middle class and no one can become rich but can't really be poor as everything they need is free.... who will strive for anything other than meritocracy at best? Then, who will be paying these taxes to keep everything "free."? Same problems from bad "solutions," just a different moment in time that someone is selling the bad ideas.

I guess I can respond because I'm not really left or right...

What's wrong with the ideas that I gave? Specifics, please.
 

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