" I am tired of doing business this way"

[Trajan]

The throw away society has reached a point here in anything short of a car is within reach of even a lower class consumer, technology coupled with malleable materials and the labor to construct it has gone global and become cheap all together.

Example- Who remembers old refrigerators? An old Frigidaire, built like a tank, lasts forever, Freon, built to last 30 years, hey in 3 years they have some new design or gizmo that renders your refrigerator obsolete, the cost is so low, you can buy one every 5 years if necessary or you just wanted too…..


Manufacturing, like it or not, is to a large extent the old paradigm, we don’t have it appears the educated workforce and expansion in newer fields to lift those how here to fore would have been in manfuc. up into a new vocational base-line that replaces those jobs at the pace necessary.

 

[westwall]

Okay folks, Iam actually provided us an interesting thread topic here, so can we drag this train back onto the track?

One of the comments made was that people don't care about anything but paying the cheapest price for a product. There is some validity to that re some products.

But there is something to say for people prefering quality over junk too.

So smart business tries to produce the best quality possible at a price people are willing to pay.

I would love to drive a Lincoln MKS or a Mercedes SLR, but I can't afford either. But the manufacturer who produces the best, roomiest, most practical, most comfortable, most affordable car will get my business. Smart money goes on the manufacturer who understands that. And those who can afford the most expensive product will demand value for their money too.

How many saw the movie "You've Got Mail"? (Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan)

How many sympathized with the "Shop Around the Corner" concept vs the big box store "Fox Books"?

But if we are honest, if we can buy the same book at Fox Books for several dollars less than we can at Shop Around the Corner, where will be buy our book? And is ther anything wrong with that?

Some good points here Foxy. My wife and I go out of our way to support the local economy. In general we get better service and the proprietors in many cases have become friends over the years. In general we pay around 20% more for what we need but that is made up for by the better quality as well. The tools I use are much more expensive than many that are out there, cconversely I've never had to replace one either.

 

[westwall]

I can't believe you're stupid enough to believe a picture on the internet can prove who you are

Haven't you learned anything about the internet or do you also answer Nigerian emails?

So you're claiming I just FOUND a picture on the internet with "SANGHA'S A RETARD " on it?


Wow. That's pathetic, even for you.

No, that's par for the course with twerps like sangha.

 

[Foxfyre]

Providing a great product, dependable service, longterm relationships with your clients....all...pale to compare to the almighty bottom price.
How cheap can you sell it for.

I am tired of doing business this way.

Who is providing a great product? I could see the construction quality of stereo equipment going down back in the 70s. I watched computer cases get worse and worse over 20 years. The electronics got better and cheaper because of Moore's Law but most consumer don't understand how junky the stuff is otherwise. And then they will pay $500 for an iPad.

I haven't been to an auto show in 30 years. I was looking at plastic bumpers and other parts hanging off cars while walking down the street yesterday. Years ago I had a conversation with an old timer in HVAC and asked him about the equipment. He said it was junk.

Economists can talk about price and quality but a lot of people that work on it despise it. They are just trapped by the economics.

Funny thing about computers though. I am wondering when people are going to figure out better, as in more powerful, computers can't really make them more productive. They just make the software waste more processing power. Are they just doing the business for the money and not really accomplishing anything? Deliberately writing software to be incompatible to force people to upgrade?

psik

When it comes to computer efficiency all one has to do is compare Windows to a linux system.
Take a 600 MB Linux installation, install compiz and some cool themes - and you have a slick modern system, that someone can do what they do on a computer....on a 5-6 year old machine running 1 gig ram.
Take a 2 Gig windows installation - and you better have at least 4 GB ram..dual processors - and you still can't run simple applications as fast as the Linux machine.
It fogs my mind that businesses haven't caught on to this. A large corporation can save $100,000's a year if the get of the Windows tit.

I'm still running everything I need to run on a 1 gig machine that is seven years old now. Still have XP too. And if somebody offered me Linux for free, I would need a lot of persuasion because of so many critical files I have that might not be compatible with Linux.

Windows still is the more user friendly for us folks that aren't all that proficient with computer lingo and intricities, and it still provides the superior support service for software and drivers. And Microsoft does better marketing than Linux. And THAT is why so many business owners as well as private customers stick with Microsoft.

Sure a lot of Microsoft products really suck. I don't know if the same is true of Linux.

But Microsoft year after year has managed to turn out and market a product that people want and have done that more efficiently and effectively than anybody else. So they remain on top.

When somebody is smart enough and determined enough to provide a better product that is as affordable, user friendly, and attractive as Microsoft, he or she will take over first place.

 

[sangha]

Providing a great product, dependable service, longterm relationships with your clients....all...pale to compare to the almighty bottom price.
How cheap can you sell it for.

I am tired of doing business this way.

Who is providing a great product? I could see the construction quality of stereo equipment going down back in the 70s. I watched computer cases get worse and worse over 20 years. The electronics got better and cheaper because of Moore's Law but most consumer don't understand how junky the stuff is otherwise. And then they will pay $500 for an iPad.

I haven't been to an auto show in 30 years. I was looking at plastic bumpers and other parts hanging off cars while walking down the street yesterday. Years ago I had a conversation with an old timer in HVAC and asked him about the equipment. He said it was junk.

Economists can talk about price and quality but a lot of people that work on it despise it. They are just trapped by the economics.

Funny thing about computers though. I am wondering when people are going to figure out better, as in more powerful, computers can't really make them more productive. They just make the software waste more processing power. Are they just doing the business for the money and not really accomplishing anything? Deliberately writing software to be incompatible to force people to upgrade?

psik

When it comes to computer efficiency all one has to do is compare Windows to a linux system.
Take a 600 MB Linux installation, install compiz and some cool themes - and you have a slick modern system, that someone can do what they do on a computer....on a 5-6 year old machine running 1 gig ram.
Take a 2 Gig windows installation - and you better have at least 4 GB ram..dual processors - and you still can't run simple applications as fast as the Linux machine.
It fogs my mind that businesses haven't caught on to this. A large corporation can save $100,000's a year if the get of the Windows tit.

It is unrealistic to expect a business to risk it's business by relying on the availability of computer programmers who know Linux. If you're not in a metro area, you're going to have a problem finding staff.

If you think the cost of the hardware and the software is the greatest IT costs, then you really don't know what you're talking about. H/S costs are one of the lesser factors when choosing an IT platform.

Customers don't care about the technology. They want computers that do what they want. They buy the hardware and OS that supports the software, not the other way around. So they're not the ones who decide what hardware and OS to use.

It fogs my mind that you haven't caught on to this.

And as far as upgrades go, no one is forced to upgrade. In the business world, companies go years and years without upgrading. I could name a half dozen major banks that use PDP 11's. Businesses upgrade because the NEW software they want to run only runs on the new hardware. The old s/w runs fine on the old h/w

And software developers write for Windows because there is a large market for third party developers (ie non MS employees). Believe it or not, s/w developers like to eat too. There isn't much money in developing Linux apps. At least, not as much as there is in MS and Windows

 

[sangha]

The throw away society has reached a point here in anything short of a car is within reach of even a lower class consumer, technology coupled with malleable materials and the labor to construct it has gone global and become cheap all together.

Example- Who remembers old refrigerators? An old Frigidaire, built like a tank, lasts forever, Freon, built to last 30 years, hey in 3 years they have some new design or gizmo that renders your refrigerator obsolete, the cost is so low, you can buy one every 5 years if necessary or you just wanted too…..


Manufacturing, like it or not, is to a large extent the old paradigm, we don’t have it appears the educated workforce and expansion in newer fields to lift those how here to fore would have been in manfuc. up into a new vocational base-line that replaces those jobs at the pace necessary.

Yeah, I remember those old Frigidaires

They sucked up electricity faster than Rosie O'Donnell with a smoothie, they broke regularly, the freezer was the size of a cheesecake, had to be completely defrosted, and the freezer wasn't seperate from the fridge.

 

[sangha]

Who is providing a great product? I could see the construction quality of stereo equipment going down back in the 70s. I watched computer cases get worse and worse over 20 years. The electronics got better and cheaper because of Moore's Law but most consumer don't understand how junky the stuff is otherwise. And then they will pay $500 for an iPad.

I haven't been to an auto show in 30 years. I was looking at plastic bumpers and other parts hanging off cars while walking down the street yesterday. Years ago I had a conversation with an old timer in HVAC and asked him about the equipment. He said it was junk.

Economists can talk about price and quality but a lot of people that work on it despise it. They are just trapped by the economics.

Funny thing about computers though. I am wondering when people are going to figure out better, as in more powerful, computers can't really make them more productive. They just make the software waste more processing power. Are they just doing the business for the money and not really accomplishing anything? Deliberately writing software to be incompatible to force people to upgrade?

psik

When it comes to computer efficiency all one has to do is compare Windows to a linux system.
Take a 600 MB Linux installation, install compiz and some cool themes - and you have a slick modern system, that someone can do what they do on a computer....on a 5-6 year old machine running 1 gig ram.
Take a 2 Gig windows installation - and you better have at least 4 GB ram..dual processors - and you still can't run simple applications as fast as the Linux machine.
It fogs my mind that businesses haven't caught on to this. A large corporation can save $100,000's a year if the get of the Windows tit.

I'm still running everything I need to run on a 1 gig machine that is seven years old now. Still have XP too. And if somebody offered me Linux for free, I would need a lot of persuasion because of so many critical files I have that might not be compatible with Linux.

Windows still is the more user friendly for us folks that aren't all that proficient with computer lingo and intricities, and it still provides the superior support service for software and drivers. And Microsoft does better marketing than Linux. And THAT is why so many business owners as well as private customers stick with Microsoft.

Sure a lot of Microsoft products really suck. I don't know if the same is true of Linux.

But Microsoft year after year has managed to turn out and market a product that people want and have done that more efficiently and effectively than anybody else. So they remain on top.

When somebody is smart enough and determined enough to provide a better product that is as affordable, user friendly, and attractive as Microsoft, he or she will take over first place.

Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!

Spot on. You don't want to upgrade because you're concerned about compatibility. So are businesses, and their files are even more valuable (financially, not emotionally). The idea that businesses are wasting money on upgrades or windows doesn't happen in real life

IRL, businesses use Windows for their "front end". Many businesses running Windows (on the front end) are also running Linux (on the back end)

And you're also spot on about Windows being user friendly. The people running big businesses are concerned about the ability of their workers to use the software. Training costs are incredible, and can far exceed the costs of the h/w and s/w combined. Even if Linux were somehow even better when it comes to user friendliness, most people will still be more familiar (and therefore more comfortable) with using Windows.

These type of debates about which OS/Software language/hardware/etc is better or worse than Windows depends on believing that the vast majority of computer professionals are wrong, and that some anonymous poster on the internet knows better than them.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Who is providing a great product? I could see the construction quality of stereo equipment going down back in the 70s. I watched computer cases get worse and worse over 20 years. The electronics got better and cheaper because of Moore's Law but most consumer don't understand how junky the stuff is otherwise. And then they will pay $500 for an iPad.

I haven't been to an auto show in 30 years. I was looking at plastic bumpers and other parts hanging off cars while walking down the street yesterday. Years ago I had a conversation with an old timer in HVAC and asked him about the equipment. He said it was junk.

Economists can talk about price and quality but a lot of people that work on it despise it. They are just trapped by the economics.

Funny thing about computers though. I am wondering when people are going to figure out better, as in more powerful, computers can't really make them more productive. They just make the software waste more processing power. Are they just doing the business for the money and not really accomplishing anything? Deliberately writing software to be incompatible to force people to upgrade?

psik

When it comes to computer efficiency all one has to do is compare Windows to a linux system.
Take a 600 MB Linux installation, install compiz and some cool themes - and you have a slick modern system, that someone can do what they do on a computer....on a 5-6 year old machine running 1 gig ram.
Take a 2 Gig windows installation - and you better have at least 4 GB ram..dual processors - and you still can't run simple applications as fast as the Linux machine.
It fogs my mind that businesses haven't caught on to this. A large corporation can save $100,000's a year if the get of the Windows tit.

It is unrealistic to expect a business to risk it's business by relying on the availability of computer programmers who know Linux. If you're not in a metro area, you're going to have a problem finding staff.

If you think the cost of the hardware and the software is the greatest IT costs, then you really don't know what you're talking about. H/S costs are one of the lesser factors when choosing an IT platform.

Customers don't care about the technology. They want computers that do what they want. They buy the hardware and OS that supports the software, not the other way around. So they're not the ones who decide what hardware and OS to use.

It fogs my mind that you haven't caught on to this.

And as far as upgrades go, no one is forced to upgrade. In the business world, companies go years and years without upgrading. I could name a half dozen major banks that use PDP 11's. Businesses upgrade because the NEW software they want to run only runs on the new hardware. The old s/w runs fine on the old h/w

And software developers write for Windows because there is a large market for third party developers (ie non MS employees). Believe it or not, s/w developers like to eat too. There isn't much money in developing Linux apps. At least, not as much as there is in MS and Windows

Whoopee...look at this folks...I got braggin' rights!!
How many people here got their own little tag-a-long troll!

 

[sangha]

When it comes to computer efficiency all one has to do is compare Windows to a linux system.
Take a 600 MB Linux installation, install compiz and some cool themes - and you have a slick modern system, that someone can do what they do on a computer....on a 5-6 year old machine running 1 gig ram.
Take a 2 Gig windows installation - and you better have at least 4 GB ram..dual processors - and you still can't run simple applications as fast as the Linux machine.
It fogs my mind that businesses haven't caught on to this. A large corporation can save $100,000's a year if the get of the Windows tit.

It is unrealistic to expect a business to risk it's business by relying on the availability of computer programmers who know Linux. If you're not in a metro area, you're going to have a problem finding staff.

If you think the cost of the hardware and the software is the greatest IT costs, then you really don't know what you're talking about. H/S costs are one of the lesser factors when choosing an IT platform.

Customers don't care about the technology. They want computers that do what they want. They buy the hardware and OS that supports the software, not the other way around. So they're not the ones who decide what hardware and OS to use.

It fogs my mind that you haven't caught on to this.

And as far as upgrades go, no one is forced to upgrade. In the business world, companies go years and years without upgrading. I could name a half dozen major banks that use PDP 11's. Businesses upgrade because the NEW software they want to run only runs on the new hardware. The old s/w runs fine on the old h/w

And software developers write for Windows because there is a large market for third party developers (ie non MS employees). Believe it or not, s/w developers like to eat too. There isn't much money in developing Linux apps. At least, not as much as there is in MS and Windows

Whoopee...look at this folks...I got braggin' rights!!
How many people here got their own little tag-a-long troll!

Is that what you do whenever someone disagrees with you? Is everyone who disagrees with you a troll? Or am I just getting some "special attention" from you?

IIRC, this is the ONLY thread I'm responding to you in, so where you got the idea that I'm following you around must have been from one of the voices in your head.

BTW, I'm not the only one who's pointed out why businesses run Windows on their PC's and not Linux. I guess they're a troll too, right? Or am I just getting some special attention from you?

 

[daveman]

I can't believe you're stupid enough to believe a picture on the internet can prove who you are

Haven't you learned anything about the internet or do you also answer Nigerian emails?

So you're claiming I just FOUND a picture on the internet with "SANGHA'S A RETARD " on it?


Wow. That's pathetic, even for you.

So you really are that dumb!!

You've never heard of Photoshop? Do you really think it's hard to make a picture like that?

I know Photoshop. And if you can find any evidence the "SANGHA IS A RETARD" image is 'shopped, bring it. And no, just because you refuse to accept it's real is NOT evidence.

And since that's all you've got, don't bother. Retard.

 

[daveman]

If he has a point to make, he can make it. He doesn't need personal info in order to have a point.

But for the record, I am in many industries. A few EXAMPLES are legal, medical, financial services, food services and many others.

Can't hold a job, huh?

No, I can't hold *A* job; I can only hold several at the same time

Since I was a teenager, I've always held more than one job and unlike you (if your claims are true) I've never had to rely on govt welfare.

Oh, look -- another braindead leftist moron who feels that military service is exactly the same as giving crack whores free money.

Y'know, it's funny the way you insist others believe your claims without proof, but you refuse to believe the claims of others even when proof is offered.

That's because you're not just a retard, you're a hypocrite, too.

 

[daveman]

I can't believe you're stupid enough to believe a picture on the internet can prove who you are

Haven't you learned anything about the internet or do you also answer Nigerian emails?

So you're claiming I just FOUND a picture on the internet with "SANGHA'S A RETARD " on it?


Wow. That's pathetic, even for you.

No, that's par for the course with twerps like sangha.

Well, that's what happens when you bitterly cling to your discredited fantasies in the face of reality. In other words, he's a leftist.

 

[sangha]

Can't hold a job, huh?

No, I can't hold *A* job; I can only hold several at the same time

Since I was a teenager, I've always held more than one job and unlike you (if your claims are true) I've never had to rely on govt welfare.

Oh, look -- another braindead leftist moron who feels that military service is exactly the same as giving crack whores free money.

Y'know, it's funny the way you insist others believe your claims without proof, but you refuse to believe the claims of others even when proof is offered.

That's because you're not just a retard, you're a hypocrite, too.

I'm still waiting to see proof, not that it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the only place you could get a job was with the govt because private employers would hire you.

And dollar for dollar, the crack whores give better value (and better blowjobs) than you did.

 

[daveman]

No, I can't hold *A* job; I can only hold several at the same time

Since I was a teenager, I've always held more than one job and unlike you (if your claims are true) I've never had to rely on govt welfare.

Oh, look -- another braindead leftist moron who feels that military service is exactly the same as giving crack whores free money.

Y'know, it's funny the way you insist others believe your claims without proof, but you refuse to believe the claims of others even when proof is offered.

That's because you're not just a retard, you're a hypocrite, too.

I'm still waiting to see proof, not that it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the only place you could get a job was with the govt because private employers would hire you.

What kind of proof would you accept?

And dollar for dollar, the crack whores give better value (and better blowjobs) than you did.

Why do you hate the military? Couldn't get in? A Soldier stole your girlfriend? A Marine beat you up? An Airman made you look stupid on the internet?

 

[westwall]

Oh, look -- another braindead leftist moron who feels that military service is exactly the same as giving crack whores free money.

Y'know, it's funny the way you insist others believe your claims without proof, but you refuse to believe the claims of others even when proof is offered.

That's because you're not just a retard, you're a hypocrite, too.

I'm still waiting to see proof, not that it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the only place you could get a job was with the govt because private employers would hire you.

What kind of proof would you accept?

And dollar for dollar, the crack whores give better value (and better blowjobs) than you did.

Why do you hate the military? Couldn't get in? A Soldier stole your girlfriend? A Marine beat you up? An Airman made you look stupid on the internet?

You forgot .... All of the Above.

 

[daveman]

I'm still waiting to see proof, not that it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the only place you could get a job was with the govt because private employers would hire you.

What kind of proof would you accept?

And dollar for dollar, the crack whores give better value (and better blowjobs) than you did.

Why do you hate the military? Couldn't get in? A Soldier stole your girlfriend? A Marine beat you up? An Airman made you look stupid on the internet?

You forgot .... All of the Above.