Hr 3962 passes!

[cristal]

[Precisely. And I hope it does get stuck in the Senate, and dies there.[/QUOTE]

Fingers crossed...

 

[jreeves]

contentious legislation is always a mess. The house and senate spar regularly. Did you just hatch last week?

lol

 

[KittenKoder]

I am sad to see more of the American dream bashed on the shores of the Obamaborg ... shattered to a million pieces and soon to be washed away like so many other freedoms.

I, on the other hand, am vastly amused at all the wing-nuts losing their heads, and running around screaming, "the sky is falling, they're gonna take our kidneys, OH MY GOD, we might actually HAVE to get health insurance, the INJUSTICE of it all, OMG, it's the END OF AMERICA"

LMAO, no wonder you people lost the last couple of elections, you're a bunch of whining ninnies. You're exactly the same kind of ninnies that cried when Social Security was first enacted a 70 years ago, and when Medicare was done in the 1960s. You act like this is some "marxist plot" to destroy America, instead of an overhaul of an over-priced health-care system that leaves 40 million people without access to preventive medicine.

By all means, keep up the hysterics, it's funny as hell!

Wrong. You left wingnuts are no better, assuming that this isn't going to hurt us, assuming that everyone getting health insurance means letting the government control it, assuming that government controlled health insurance means the costs will go down ... assuming that the government even really gives a fuck about you or anyone else. That's just as insane as the right wingnut claims. You have shown yourself to just be another kettle. Thanks for playing.

 

[Care4all]

The point you are missing is that the government is forcing us to buy the insurance it chooses. not the insurance we may want.

i know my insurance costs will go up. i have an HSA right now but that will be deemed "unacceptable" by some fucking bureaucrat and i will have to pay for coverage I don't need.

As I said, if my insurance costs rise to well above what the tax penalty will be if I don't buy, then I will pay the penalty and exploit the law that says I can't be denied insurance for preexisting conditions.

So I will only buy insurance when I am sick and that will raise everyone else's premiums.

Too bad so sad but my bottom line is more important to me than yours.

Do you have a link to the legislation that deems insurance through buying catastrophic insurance and having an HSA, will be eliminated as a choice, or not considered you covering yourself with insurance?

I agree with you that this would be wrong to exclude these type of plans, but I don;t believe they are eliminating them as "insurance coverage" for you...

care

Unfortunately, HSAs (along with their use-it-or-lose-it cousins FSAs) are also under the gun in the house bill released today: HSAs and FSAs will have to shoulder a medicine cabinet tax—meaning that while you used to be able to buy over-the-counter medicines with tax-free account money, you’ll now only be able to use after-tax dollars. The bill raises the additional tax on non-qualified withdrawals from an HSA (raising the tax from 10% to 20%). HSAs will effectively be killed by a final provision, which requires that most plans provide first-dollar coverage for most services.

Health Savings Accounts (HSAs): <br> Best Policy Solution Killed by Obamacare

not good....

do you know if the senate supports this tax measure as well?

Also, a few employers that Matthew has had within the last decade, when they took out his portion of his health insurance, it was 'tax free" as well...from both Federal and State taxes, and perhaps also tax exempt even from social security and medicare taxes as well...i would have to go back and look at old pay stubs to confirm that part...

BUT, if they take some of the tax exemption away from HSA's in this bill, I wonder if the same will happen with employee's share of their health insurance when taken out with ones employer?

 

[KittenKoder]

The senate has been all for tax hikes since the politicians realized we can't stop them from making a profit as long as they disguise it with a "feel good" plan.

 

[jreeves]

The sky is falling.
We better pass a healthcare bill.

Wait, it's not falling till 2013, when the health care bill will finally take effect.

Exactly.

The Barry will tax the shit out of Americans starting on January 1st, 2010 to pay off his current 1.7 trillion dollar budget deficit and then in 2013..WE ALL GET BENT OVER AND FUCKED BY THIS BULLSHIT GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTHCARE SCHEME. In the mean time he gets to say "Look...I reduced the budget deficit to zero...re-elect me!!!!"

Remember this post in 2012.

America is about to get screwed by The Barry......the biggest con ever perpetrated on the citizens of the United States is about to take place unless we all write our Senators and stop it. We already know they don't care about anything but their jobs so threaten to vote them out if they pass this socialist scheme aimed at taking more freedoms away from us.

The bill that passed in the House will not pass in the Senate but something will pass. Just watch as Democrats, work for the everyday guy. As Big Insurance gets richer through mandatory coverage and Big Pharma gets richer through a the elimination of having to negotiate pharm. prices for Medicare patients.

 

[jreeves]

Imagine trying to merge this bill with the Senate bill what a clusterfucked mess.

If Uhc is so fabulous why would the house need to criminalize not participating in the system?(up to 5 years imprisionment) I mean if its so great everyone will be tripping over themselves to sign up for health care coverage.

I was just reading your signature (great quotes, btw) and noticed the famous JFK "ask not what your country can do for you"..... I wonder when the Demcrates turned against Kennedy.

When Mr. Social Justice was born....

 

[Care4all]

It's a 2.5% penalty for individuals that do not buy insurance that can afford it, those who can;t will be subsidized with "affordability credits", and businesses over $500,000 I believe, who do not offer group insurance to their employees.... but if they don;t then their penalty is 8% of their profit....

This is what i heard on c-span this morning.

 

[The Rabbi]

It's a 2.5% penalty for individuals that do not buy insurance that can afford it, those who can;t will be subsidized with "affordability credits", and businesses over $500,000 I believe, who do not offer group insurance to their employees.... but if they don;t then their penalty is 8% of their profit....

This is what i heard on c-span this morning.

What about those who can't but still don't want to?
And since when does gov't get to mandate what insurance I do and do not have?
And what if a company spends more than 8% of profits on health insurance for employees? What will happen to their health insurance? Two guesses, first one doesn't count.

 

[jreeves]

It's a 2.5% penalty for individuals that do not buy insurance that can afford it, those who can;t will be subsidized with "affordability credits", and businesses over $500,000 I believe, who do not offer group insurance to their employees.... but if they don;t then their penalty is 8% of their profit....

This is what i heard on c-span this morning.

Did you hear about the Rangel amendment? You know where you can receive up to 5 years in prison if you refuse to carry health insurance? I wonder why they need to criminalize it, if UHC will be so great?

 

[jreeves]

It's a 2.5% penalty for individuals that do not buy insurance that can afford it, those who can;t will be subsidized with "affordability credits", and businesses over $500,000 I believe, who do not offer group insurance to their employees.... but if they don;t then their penalty is 8% of their profit....

This is what i heard on c-span this morning.

What about those who can't but still don't want to?
And since when does gov't get to mandate what insurance I do and do not have?
And what if a company spends more than 8% of profits on health insurance for employees? What will happen to their health insurance? Two guesses, first one doesn't count.

It's called unconstitutional and that should be overturned by the court system.

 

[Care4all]

I also heard that insurance companies will be required to spend 85% of what they charge people in premiums, on actual health care services....

15% allowed for overhead/administration costs.

That really surprised me....

had any of you heard about this measure in the bill....

I am uncertain what to make of it....need to think about it a bit....

 

[ayiakri]

The point you are missing is that the government is forcing us to buy the insurance it chooses. not the insurance we may want.

Health-insurance is already regulated on a state-by-state basis, so the ONLY health-insurance you can buy is insurance that is already "approved" by your state insurance regulator. And since just about every state-approved health-insurance plan will qualify under the federal mandate (which is for a bare-minimum plan), the vast majority of people won't have any new requirements, or any change at all. Period.

i know my insurance costs will go up. i have an HSA right now but that will be deemed "unacceptable" by some fucking bureaucrat and i will have to pay for coverage I don't need.

First - you don't "know" that your premiums will go up, you only believe they will. There is no final bill on the President's desk yet, and won't be, until the Senate bill is reconciled in an ugly, sausage-making mess, with the House bill.

Second - provide a link to the section of the House bill that deems Health Savings Accounts to be not covered by the mandate, or else concede the point that you're only guessing. The point of the mandate is that right now, your tax dollars are paying for the emergency-room medical care for the people who don't bother to get health-insurance. That's right now, that's the law NOW.

If somebody with no health insurance gets hit by a truck, and goes to the ER, the hospital HAS to provide service by law - they can't turn them away. Eventually, part of the costs are covered by Medicaid, which comes from - wait for it - your taxes. If that person had insurance, at least they'd be paying into the system, and not a burden on everybody else.

As I said, if my insurance costs rise to well above what the tax penalty will be if I don't buy, then I will pay the penalty and exploit the law that says I can't be denied insurance for preexisting conditions.

Good for you - whatever the law is, go for it. If you're too poor to get health-insurance, you'll be eligible for a subsidy to help you pay for it (or to pay pretty much all of it, if you're genuinely poor). If you can afford insurance, and don't get it, then you should be penalized, since the first time you need some medical care, the law says the hospital can't turn you away.

I would actually fully support a change to the bill that says nobody can be FORCED to get insurance, if that person signs a legally-binding agreement that they get no health-services of any kind that are paid for by tax-payers. I think that's fair - if you really don't want it, I think you shouldn't have it. When you dial 911, you'd get a recording that says, "Sorry, emergency service is not available to your house". Heart attack in the mall? As soon as they run your ID, and see you've "opted out", they'll cancel the ambulances, and let you die right there. In fact, the cost to move your body by the mortician should come out of your estate.

But since it seems that my idea is unlikely to be made law (and I'm not sure how many people would willfully refuse subsidized health-insurance, preferring instead to simply give up all medical services that receive government funding - which is almost all of them).

But like you said - if you prefer to pay the penalty, go for it. I've get a pretty great health-insurance plan for my family through Bupa, and I'm fortunate enough that I don't need to worry about the costs.

Too bad so sad but my bottom line is more important to me than yours.

Actually, since I work overseas this year (and next year), and pay taxes abroad, I'm exempt from almost all U.S. Federal income taxes, except my capital gains taxes. So you're not going to affect my bottom line much at all

 

[Care4all]

i am totally AGAINST the mandatory measure in this bill...i think this is a GIFT HORSE to the insurance industry, without them ever having to compete for these new customers.

 

[jreeves]

I also heard that insurance companies will be required to spend 85% of what they charge people in premiums, on actual health care services....

15% allowed for overhead/administration costs.

That really surprised me....

had any of you heard about this measure in the bill....

I am uncertain what to make of it....need to think about it a bit....

Well I think the government should be able to dictate how premiums are used, after all the federal government has proven track record of efficiency.

 

[midcan5]

Bravo, bravo bravo, America moves forward ever so slowly but still forward. Good news, let's hope it passes through all the required phases and we have a bit of hope and justice for all Americans.

 

[The T]

i am totally AGAINST the mandatory measure in this bill...i think this is a GIFT HORSE to the insurance industry, without them ever having to compete for these new customers.

Agreed. Talk about "Cororate Welfare"?

 

[jreeves]

i am totally AGAINST the mandatory measure in this bill...i think this is a GIFT HORSE to the insurance industry, without them ever having to compete for these new customers.

Agreed. Talk about "Cororate Welfare"?

Through the Rangel amendment these assholes can lock you up if you don't pay the big boys.

 

[The T]

Bravo, bravo bravo, America moves forward ever so slowly but still forward. Good news, let's hope it passes through all the required phases and we have a bit of hope and justice for all Americans.

So you are for forcing people to take something that may not necessarily meet their needs individually? And have some bureaucrat decide yes or no?

You have no idea what you want, nor do you care. Just make everyone subscribe to a cookie society? A rugged individualist you are not.

 

[KittenKoder]

i am totally AGAINST the mandatory measure in this bill...i think this is a GIFT HORSE to the insurance industry, without them ever having to compete for these new customers.

Agreed. Talk about "Cororate Welfare"?

Through the Rangel amendment these assholes can lock you up if you don't pay the big boys.

Essentially it's just a way to tax us without calling it what it is.