CDZ How would YOU deal with this Business Situation?....

[TakeAStepBack]

If they are doing out of scope work, and are not being paid enough to compensate for it, It's not surprising that you are having difficulty filling the spot. The only real options are push the work back to the managers, or re-scope the work officially to the Sr. Techs, and compensate them at a rate that makes good techs WANT the promotion.

As one of the Techs, and the Steward, that's my take on it as well, but I wanted to see if others had alternative ideas of what the Company may suggest or try.

That's about right. You have to kick it up to management so they can grasp the concept that it is an undesirable position and for ABC reasons.

If they refuse to acknowledge this and change the format, then I'd say they are stuck with a vacancy unless they can over-ride and simply dump Sr. Tech work in a distributed fashion to the remaining candidates (such as yourself and the other team members) to fulfill the duties without the overhead.

I dont see that flying in a union shop, so it seems an adjustment is needed on Sr. Tech. In the non-union world, this type of workflow distribution is very common today.

 

[Anathema]

If the parameters for Sr Tech were negotiated by the same union that represents techs, then two things come to my mind.

1. You union heads are idiots for making a promotion less desirable than staying in place, and the company has a legitimate grievance in the lack of ability to fill the role. This, however is contingent on 2 not being the case.

2. If, as you say, management is making Sr Techs. do work out of scope without additional compensation, then why isn't the union screaming bloody murder, and why didn't they do it when the tasks were being added?

It's #2. This department Unionized in 2009. Unfortunately the Job Descriptions accepted in that contract, and it's 2013 extension are so ridiculously vague as to be almost worthless. When the department was consolidated into one location from six, the whole way of doing work was changed. At that time, despite repeated commentaries from me, the two Seniors accepted this other work. (they'd both been Management employees for 20 years and used to just doing as they were told) That now makes it an established "past practice" and extremely difficult to get rid of that work.

 

[martybegan]

If the parameters for Sr Tech were negotiated by the same union that represents techs, then two things come to my mind.

1. You union heads are idiots for making a promotion less desirable than staying in place, and the company has a legitimate grievance in the lack of ability to fill the role. This, however is contingent on 2 not being the case.

2. If, as you say, management is making Sr Techs. do work out of scope without additional compensation, then why isn't the union screaming bloody murder, and why didn't they do it when the tasks were being added?

It's #2. This department Unionized in 2009. Unfortunately the Job Descriptions accepted in that contract, and it's 2013 extension are so ridiculously vague as to be almost worthless. When the department was consolidated into one location from six, the whole way of doing work was changed. At that time, despite repeated commentaries from me, the two Seniors accepted this other work. (they'd both been Management employees for 20 years and used to just doing as they were told) That now makes it an established "past practice" and extremely difficult to get rid of that work.

It looks like the union line was improperly defined, or at best vaguely defined.

Unless some compromise can be made, this could get ugly.

 

[WinterBorn]

Make the Senior Tech a mgmt position and bypass the union.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm especially interested in hearing from business owners, managers, and supervisory personnel on this issue, but wonder if others may have run into something similar before, themselves.....

You are the Manager of a Union Department that has four classifications (in ascending order..... Tech B, Tech A, Tech, Sr Tech). One of your two Senior Techs is retiring. You have three Techs who are all qualified to move up to the Senior Tech position, but none of them want it. This is largely due to the significant change in the type of work the Senior Tech position requires, the increased stress of the job, and the minimal increase (about $5500 a year) in pay rate. You have two Tech A's and one Tech B; none of whom can qualify to take the Senior Tech position.

How do you proceed/what do you do?

Here are the stipulations........

1. You cannot de-unionize the department
2. There are no other qualified Union candidates in the Company
2. You cannot bring in a candidate off the street due to Union rules

I'll answer any pertinent questions you may have.

Any way to increase the pay for Sr. Tech to make it worth it to them?

Bring the issue to your superiors and maybe they can increase the pay for the position.

so some lazy fuck doesn't want a more than 100 dollar a week raise and you want to find a way to pay that fucker more?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I would get rid of the Sr tech position and spread the work out over everyone else and save the company some money

 

[martybegan]

I'm especially interested in hearing from business owners, managers, and supervisory personnel on this issue, but wonder if others may have run into something similar before, themselves.....

You are the Manager of a Union Department that has four classifications (in ascending order..... Tech B, Tech A, Tech, Sr Tech). One of your two Senior Techs is retiring. You have three Techs who are all qualified to move up to the Senior Tech position, but none of them want it. This is largely due to the significant change in the type of work the Senior Tech position requires, the increased stress of the job, and the minimal increase (about $5500 a year) in pay rate. You have two Tech A's and one Tech B; none of whom can qualify to take the Senior Tech position.

How do you proceed/what do you do?

Here are the stipulations........

1. You cannot de-unionize the department
2. There are no other qualified Union candidates in the Company
2. You cannot bring in a candidate off the street due to Union rules

I'll answer any pertinent questions you may have.

Any way to increase the pay for Sr. Tech to make it worth it to them?

Bring the issue to your superiors and maybe they can increase the pay for the position.

so some lazy fuck doesn't want a more than 100 dollar a week raise and you want to find a way to pay that fucker more?

CDZ, watch your manners.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I'm especially interested in hearing from business owners, managers, and supervisory personnel on this issue, but wonder if others may have run into something similar before, themselves.....

You are the Manager of a Union Department that has four classifications (in ascending order..... Tech B, Tech A, Tech, Sr Tech). One of your two Senior Techs is retiring. You have three Techs who are all qualified to move up to the Senior Tech position, but none of them want it. This is largely due to the significant change in the type of work the Senior Tech position requires, the increased stress of the job, and the minimal increase (about $5500 a year) in pay rate. You have two Tech A's and one Tech B; none of whom can qualify to take the Senior Tech position.

How do you proceed/what do you do?

Here are the stipulations........

1. You cannot de-unionize the department
2. There are no other qualified Union candidates in the Company
2. You cannot bring in a candidate off the street due to Union rules

I'll answer any pertinent questions you may have.

Any way to increase the pay for Sr. Tech to make it worth it to them?

Bring the issue to your superiors and maybe they can increase the pay for the position.

so some lazy fuck doesn't want a more than 100 dollar a week raise and you want to find a way to pay that fucker more?

I've turned advancements down for this reason. If the compensation isnt a reasonable match to the larger workload, it doesn't seem like a worthy deal.

 

[WinterBorn]

I'm especially interested in hearing from business owners, managers, and supervisory personnel on this issue, but wonder if others may have run into something similar before, themselves.....

You are the Manager of a Union Department that has four classifications (in ascending order..... Tech B, Tech A, Tech, Sr Tech). One of your two Senior Techs is retiring. You have three Techs who are all qualified to move up to the Senior Tech position, but none of them want it. This is largely due to the significant change in the type of work the Senior Tech position requires, the increased stress of the job, and the minimal increase (about $5500 a year) in pay rate. You have two Tech A's and one Tech B; none of whom can qualify to take the Senior Tech position.

How do you proceed/what do you do?

Here are the stipulations........

1. You cannot de-unionize the department
2. There are no other qualified Union candidates in the Company
2. You cannot bring in a candidate off the street due to Union rules

I'll answer any pertinent questions you may have.

Any way to increase the pay for Sr. Tech to make it worth it to them?

Bring the issue to your superiors and maybe they can increase the pay for the position.

so some lazy fuck doesn't want a more than 100 dollar a week raise and you want to find a way to pay that fucker more?

I am not a member of any union. But if the job a lot more work and had major stress, and extra $100 in my paycheck isn't enough for me to take it either. That is not laziness. That is simply recognizing what my skills and what the stress is worth.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm especially interested in hearing from business owners, managers, and supervisory personnel on this issue, but wonder if others may have run into something similar before, themselves.....

You are the Manager of a Union Department that has four classifications (in ascending order..... Tech B, Tech A, Tech, Sr Tech). One of your two Senior Techs is retiring. You have three Techs who are all qualified to move up to the Senior Tech position, but none of them want it. This is largely due to the significant change in the type of work the Senior Tech position requires, the increased stress of the job, and the minimal increase (about $5500 a year) in pay rate. You have two Tech A's and one Tech B; none of whom can qualify to take the Senior Tech position.

How do you proceed/what do you do?

Here are the stipulations........

1. You cannot de-unionize the department
2. There are no other qualified Union candidates in the Company
2. You cannot bring in a candidate off the street due to Union rules

I'll answer any pertinent questions you may have.

Any way to increase the pay for Sr. Tech to make it worth it to them?

Bring the issue to your superiors and maybe they can increase the pay for the position.

so some lazy fuck doesn't want a more than 100 dollar a week raise and you want to find a way to pay that fucker more?

I've turned advancements down for this reason. If the compensation isnt a reasonable match to the larger workload, it doesn't seem like a worthy deal.

Sorry but of a 100 a week raise plus a promotion that will likely make you a better candidate for another promotion is a good trade off for a little more work

But like I said if none of those lazy union slobs want to advance and you cannot hire from outside then you either get rid of the position or leave it unfilled and spread the work out over everyone else with no pay raises.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm especially interested in hearing from business owners, managers, and supervisory personnel on this issue, but wonder if others may have run into something similar before, themselves.....

You are the Manager of a Union Department that has four classifications (in ascending order..... Tech B, Tech A, Tech, Sr Tech). One of your two Senior Techs is retiring. You have three Techs who are all qualified to move up to the Senior Tech position, but none of them want it. This is largely due to the significant change in the type of work the Senior Tech position requires, the increased stress of the job, and the minimal increase (about $5500 a year) in pay rate. You have two Tech A's and one Tech B; none of whom can qualify to take the Senior Tech position.

How do you proceed/what do you do?

Here are the stipulations........

1. You cannot de-unionize the department
2. There are no other qualified Union candidates in the Company
2. You cannot bring in a candidate off the street due to Union rules

I'll answer any pertinent questions you may have.

Any way to increase the pay for Sr. Tech to make it worth it to them?

Bring the issue to your superiors and maybe they can increase the pay for the position.

so some lazy fuck doesn't want a more than 100 dollar a week raise and you want to find a way to pay that fucker more?

I am not a member of any union. But if the job a lot more work and had major stress, and extra $100 in my paycheck isn't enough for me to take it either. That is not laziness. That is simply recognizing what my skills and what the stress is worth.

define the increase in "stress" this job entails. I can't believe it's very much

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I'm especially interested in hearing from business owners, managers, and supervisory personnel on this issue, but wonder if others may have run into something similar before, themselves.....

You are the Manager of a Union Department that has four classifications (in ascending order..... Tech B, Tech A, Tech, Sr Tech). One of your two Senior Techs is retiring. You have three Techs who are all qualified to move up to the Senior Tech position, but none of them want it. This is largely due to the significant change in the type of work the Senior Tech position requires, the increased stress of the job, and the minimal increase (about $5500 a year) in pay rate. You have two Tech A's and one Tech B; none of whom can qualify to take the Senior Tech position.

How do you proceed/what do you do?

Here are the stipulations........

1. You cannot de-unionize the department
2. There are no other qualified Union candidates in the Company
2. You cannot bring in a candidate off the street due to Union rules

I'll answer any pertinent questions you may have.

Any way to increase the pay for Sr. Tech to make it worth it to them?

Bring the issue to your superiors and maybe they can increase the pay for the position.

so some lazy fuck doesn't want a more than 100 dollar a week raise and you want to find a way to pay that fucker more?

I've turned advancements down for this reason. If the compensation isnt a reasonable match to the larger workload, it doesn't seem like a worthy deal.

Sorry but of a 100 a week raise plus a promotion that will likely make you a better candidate for another promotion is a good trade off for a little more work

But like I said if none of those lazy union slobs want to advance and you cannot hire from outside then you either get rid of the position or leave it unfilled and spread the work out over everyone else with no pay raises.

Again, that depends entirely on the workload. If I was making 70K a year non-exempt, had a nice work/life balance and liked my job, would I take a raise that put me at 75K with exempt status and watched the people in that position before me work 12 hr days? No, probably not.

Context is everything when you make such a decision. We dont have enough details here to start making accusations about whether people are lazy, or simply see it from a different angle.

 

[WinterBorn]

I'm especially interested in hearing from business owners, managers, and supervisory personnel on this issue, but wonder if others may have run into something similar before, themselves.....

You are the Manager of a Union Department that has four classifications (in ascending order..... Tech B, Tech A, Tech, Sr Tech). One of your two Senior Techs is retiring. You have three Techs who are all qualified to move up to the Senior Tech position, but none of them want it. This is largely due to the significant change in the type of work the Senior Tech position requires, the increased stress of the job, and the minimal increase (about $5500 a year) in pay rate. You have two Tech A's and one Tech B; none of whom can qualify to take the Senior Tech position.

How do you proceed/what do you do?

Here are the stipulations........

1. You cannot de-unionize the department
2. There are no other qualified Union candidates in the Company
2. You cannot bring in a candidate off the street due to Union rules

I'll answer any pertinent questions you may have.

Any way to increase the pay for Sr. Tech to make it worth it to them?

Bring the issue to your superiors and maybe they can increase the pay for the position.

so some lazy fuck doesn't want a more than 100 dollar a week raise and you want to find a way to pay that fucker more?

I've turned advancements down for this reason. If the compensation isnt a reasonable match to the larger workload, it doesn't seem like a worthy deal.

Sorry but of a 100 a week raise plus a promotion that will likely make you a better candidate for another promotion is a good trade off for a little more work

But like I said if none of those lazy union slobs want to advance and you cannot hire from outside then you either get rid of the position or leave it unfilled and spread the work out over everyone else with no pay raises.

Again, that depends entirely on the workload. If I was making 70K a year non-exempt, had a nice work/life balance and liked my job, would I take a raise that put me at 75K with exempt status and watched the people in that position before me work 12 hr days? No, probably not.

Context is everything when you make such a decision. We dont have enough details here to start making accusations about whether people are lazy, or simply see it from a different angle.

The new job is also very different from what the techs are currently doing. If they like their job, why give it up for a minor amount of extra pay?

When I was a lineman I was asked to move from a member of the safety committee to the full time safety director's position. The initial pay increase was not enough to make it worth the headaches and to get me out of a job I enjoyed doing. Not to mention the fact that I would no longer be eligible for making way more during times we did storm damage.

 

[Anathema]

Make the Senior Tech a mgmt position and bypass the union.

It's already a Union position. While some of that work could be transfered to the single non-union "Designer" in the group, the Senior Tech position cannot be simply removed from the Union.

 

[Ravi]

Demote the manager responsible for this fiasco to the position.

 

[Anathema]

I would get rid of the Sr tech position and spread the work out over everyone else and save the company some money

Again, not a viable option, considering there's an existing contract in place until May of 2017.

 

[WinterBorn]

I would get rid of the Sr tech position and spread the work out over everyone else and save the company some money

Again, not a viable option, considering there's an existing contract in place until May of 2017.

Then the mgmt will have to take all the mgmt work from the senior tech position, the remaining senior tech will pick up all the non-mgmt work that was previously done by both senior techs, and let the lower techs cover the remaining work.

 

[Anathema]

Sorry but of a 100 a week raise plus a promotion that will likely make you a better candidate for another promotion is a good trade off for a little more work.

There is no other position to qualify for in the Union. The only place to go from there is to a Management position, where the Union experience would not be of any help.

But like I said if none of those lazy union slobs want to advance and you cannot hire from outside then you either get rid of the position or leave it unfilled and spread the work out over everyone else with no pay raises.

They can get rid of the second (vacant) Senior position but they cannot re-asssign the other Senior Tech back to Tech status; nor can they take Senior work and give it to Techs without "upgrading" them to Senior. Even then, that's considered a Temp Assignment and the Techs can choose not to take it.

 

[Anathema]

Again, that depends entirely on the workload. If I was making 70K a year non-exempt, had a nice work/life balance and liked my job, would I take a raise that put me at 75K with exempt status and watched the people in that position before me work 12 hr days? No, probably not.

Context is everything when you make such a decision. We dont have enough details here to start making accusations about whether people are lazy, or simply see it from a different angle.

The numbers are about $5K more than what you suggested. Both positions have siminlar Storm Duty/OT opportunities/responsibilities with equivalant hours, location, etc......

The step is from a Working job to a job that is entirely Assignment, Management, Oversight and Reporting of Work/Workers. Seniors no longer do the work, they just manage the work/workers. Gee, kinda sounds like a Supervisor/Manager to me; but the pay isn't in that range.

 

[Anathema]

Then the mgmt will have to take all the mgmt work from the senior tech position, the remaining senior tech will pick up all the non-mgmt work that was previously done by both senior techs, and let the lower techs cover the remaining work.

That wold be one way to do it. It's also pretty much where I'm hoping this goes; but I'm not banking on it.