How to Get American Employment Back Up; Economists wont tell you this

[AntiParty]

Hold the same standards for Imported goods as we do here in America.

We have high standards in America.......Then we should have the same standards for the goods we import.

The result will be lowered unnecessary standards in the USA and more jobs. Win/Win.

If we don't want a 12 year old to work here, why do we allow a 12 year old to produce our goods somewhere else? They are still human. If we don't want certain emissions here, why do we allow those emissions somewhere else on the planet, they still happen..

I guess the first question I would ask is what makes you think today's Republicans (like those on here) DON'T want our 12 year old's to be working?

Then there is the issue of what makes you think that today's Republicans (like those on here) give a shit about whatever emissions are emitted here in the USA. You know that air pollution thing is as made up as GW.

No, today's global capitalist's are fine with American 12 YO working. You don't have to pay them as much and the transportation costs for the goods would be much less.

Besides that, it wouldn't be THEIR 12 YO son or daughter working.

I love your perspective because you turned it into a "Party" issue.

Lot's of Democrats want less Emissions and Less Child labor but buy products that fund the very same idea's.

This isn't a Party Issue.

 

[AntiParty]

Hold the same standards for Imported goods as we do here in America.

We have high standards in America.......Then we should have the same standards for the goods we import.

The result will be lowered unnecessary standards in the USA and more jobs. Win/Win.

If we don't want a 12 year old to work here, why do we allow a 12 year old to produce our goods somewhere else? They are still human. If we don't want certain emissions here, why do we allow those emissions somewhere else on the planet, they still happen..

I guess the first question I would ask is what makes you think today's Republicans (like those on here) DON'T want our 12 year old's to be working?

Then there is the issue of what makes you think that today's Republicans (like those on here) give a shit about whatever emissions are emitted here in the USA. You know that air pollution thing is as made up as GW.

No, today's global capitalist's are fine with American 12 YO working. You don't have to pay them as much and the transportation costs for the goods would be much less.

Besides that, it wouldn't be THEIR 12 YO son or daughter working.

funny, because it damn sure would be.

It is excellent for a child to get a first job rather young - perfect time to learn good work habits. Paper routs and the like used to be the realm for those children to gain real world experience. What is so wrong with that? Nothing.

What does this have to do with imports/exports small brain? Of course it's good to teach a child how to work and many don't today. But a child's primary forte should be education, not work. Work should come after education!

Of course this is "Capitalism". What you are standing for is "Crony Capitalism" where we allow a select few children and/or low educated workers to make profits since slavery isn't allowed anymore.

The Greedy and Superficial will absolutely sell out American Families for Profit and openly do daily. The grass is always greener on the other side when you are greedy. When you accept your own "grass" you become more empowered than you will ever believe.

I started working around 15 and learned a lot doing it. It was a damn good thing I did, those habits I developed then have carried me through life. Unfortunately, such is massively taboo now without any cause whatsoever.

 

[AntiParty]

standards? ... LMAO

standards mean regulations, and regulations mean HELL NO

besides this country has a standard ... pay big oil subsides, they need the $, and refuse to pay American workers higher wages... they don't need the $

They don't want to bring the rest of the world up to OUR standards.
They do want the USA to reduce our standards to the low levels found in a China or a Mexico.
I mean all the right wing hacks just KNOW that the American worker just has it to fucking GOOD.

Why do these asshole Republicans hate the American working man or woman?

Because many are poor and wonder why. They never take a second to research why. Their employer and CEO tell them that they can't afford a raise because taxes are too high. A typical "look over there" tactic. Meanwhile CEO and Corporate profits are an all time high. Only the stupid don't question this.

They don't know a current CEO' primary job is to keep costs/wages down. And if the CEO gobbles up 3/4 of the workforces demand for wages, the Corporation saves 1/4 in $.

 

[FA_Q2]

Hold the same standards for Imported goods as we do here in America.

We have high standards in America.......Then we should have the same standards for the goods we import.

The result will be lowered unnecessary standards in the USA and more jobs. Win/Win.

If we don't want a 12 year old to work here, why do we allow a 12 year old to produce our goods somewhere else? They are still human. If we don't want certain emissions here, why do we allow those emissions somewhere else on the planet, they still happen..

I guess the first question I would ask is what makes you think today's Republicans (like those on here) DON'T want our 12 year old's to be working?

Then there is the issue of what makes you think that today's Republicans (like those on here) give a shit about whatever emissions are emitted here in the USA. You know that air pollution thing is as made up as GW.

No, today's global capitalist's are fine with American 12 YO working. You don't have to pay them as much and the transportation costs for the goods would be much less.

Besides that, it wouldn't be THEIR 12 YO son or daughter working.

funny, because it damn sure would be.

It is excellent for a child to get a first job rather young - perfect time to learn good work habits. Paper routs and the like used to be the realm for those children to gain real world experience. What is so wrong with that? Nothing.

I started working around 15 and learned a lot doing it. It was a damn good thing I did, those habits I developed then have carried me through life. Unfortunately, such is massively taboo now without any cause whatsoever.

So that's what you think kids working in other impoverished countries are doing eh? Paper routes and the like eh?

How about YOUR kid working 12 hour shifts in a sweat shop? That'll teach the little shits. Maybe 10 hour shifts would be better if they were working in an industrial setting, You decide.

But we sure as fuck were not talking "paper routes". And you know it.

Never said that. Just pointed out that asshattery in your original statement.

My first statement outlines why Antiparty's idea simply is not going to happen.

 

[FA_Q2]

Hold the same standards for Imported goods as we do here in America.

We have high standards in America.......Then we should have the same standards for the goods we import.

The result will be lowered unnecessary standards in the USA and more jobs. Win/Win.

If we don't want a 12 year old to work here, why do we allow a 12 year old to produce our goods somewhere else? They are still human. If we don't want certain emissions here, why do we allow those emissions somewhere else on the planet, they still happen..

I guess the first question I would ask is what makes you think today's Republicans (like those on here) DON'T want our 12 year old's to be working?

Then there is the issue of what makes you think that today's Republicans (like those on here) give a shit about whatever emissions are emitted here in the USA. You know that air pollution thing is as made up as GW.

No, today's global capitalist's are fine with American 12 YO working. You don't have to pay them as much and the transportation costs for the goods would be much less.

Besides that, it wouldn't be THEIR 12 YO son or daughter working.

funny, because it damn sure would be.

It is excellent for a child to get a first job rather young - perfect time to learn good work habits. Paper routs and the like used to be the realm for those children to gain real world experience. What is so wrong with that? Nothing.

What does this have to do with imports/exports small brain? Of course it's good to teach a child how to work and many don't today. But a child's primary forte should be education, not work. Work should come after education!

Of course this is "Capitalism". What you are standing for is "Crony Capitalism" where we allow a select few children and/or low educated workers to make profits since slavery isn't allowed anymore.

The Greedy and Superficial will absolutely sell out American Families for Profit and openly do daily. The grass is always greener on the other side when you are greedy. When you accept your own "grass" you become more empowered than you will ever believe.

I started working around 15 and learned a lot doing it. It was a damn good thing I did, those habits I developed then have carried me through life. Unfortunately, such is massively taboo now without any cause whatsoever.

You quoted me but didn't say anything....

 

[The Rabbi]

Hold the same standards for Imported goods as we do here in America.

We have high standards in America.......Then we should have the same standards for the goods we import.

The result will be lowered unnecessary standards in the USA and more jobs. Win/Win.

If we don't want a 12 year old to work here, why do we allow a 12 year old to produce our goods somewhere else? They are still human. If we don't want certain emissions here, why do we allow those emissions somewhere else on the planet, they still happen..

Most idiotic idea ever.

^See. When you think a little, the small minds get mad. Note he doesn't say why it's a bad idea. He has no debate. He has the typical 12 year old response and I'm guessing he's probably over 70.

OK, you arrogant prick. Here's the deal. "Standards" means keeping imports out. Whether you keep imports out by taxing them and making them prohibitively expensive, or by banning them, or by imposing some other standard, which is what you are doing, you are keeping imports out.
Keeping imports out protects domestic industry from competition. Without competition industries become inefficient,bloated, and eventually require more and more gov't subsidy to be viable. Because they cant compete in the marketplace anymore.
Every country that has tried this route, no matter what mechanism they've used, experiences the same results: stagnation, rising prices, poor consumer goods, and eventually poverty.
You are not anti-party. You are anti-thought. You are anti-brain cells.

 

[The Rabbi]

Hold the same standards for Imported goods as we do here in America.

We have high standards in America.......Then we should have the same standards for the goods we import.

The result will be lowered unnecessary standards in the USA and more jobs. Win/Win.

If we don't want a 12 year old to work here, why do we allow a 12 year old to produce our goods somewhere else? They are still human. If we don't want certain emissions here, why do we allow those emissions somewhere else on the planet, they still happen..

Because if we were willing to pay the higher prices and lower level of lifestyle that would require, those jobs would have never left in the first place.

Protectionism worked really well for East Germany.
OK, so maybe it didnt.

That really has nothing to with what I said though...

It did actually.
E.Germany took the same route. They protected their industries from foreign competition for years in order to save jobs. The result was a lower standard of living and when reunification came E.German industry was hopelessly outdated.
Protectionism is very costly. It favors those with jobs currently at the expense of everyone else.

You CLEARLY don't know how to read and CLEARLY don't understand the OP. Even though the OP was VERY basic and short. So sad..

You CLEARLY are an ignorant asshat.

 

[eagle1462010]

Hold the same standards for Imported goods as we do here in America.

We have high standards in America.......Then we should have the same standards for the goods we import.

The result will be lowered unnecessary standards in the USA and more jobs. Win/Win.

If we don't want a 12 year old to work here, why do we allow a 12 year old to produce our goods somewhere else? They are still human. If we don't want certain emissions here, why do we allow those emissions somewhere else on the planet, they still happen..

This is a fair trade versus free trade Op................Adding in the 12 year old being useless to me...........because we have child labor laws here. In other parts of the world not so much.

Allowing Free Trade with companies overseas in back water 3rd World Countries is a joke. They don't have the EPA standards and Labor standards that we have here..........Before the 90's trade contracts were conducted in a give and take basis.............We'll Tariff so much as your country doesn't play by the same rules. Unless your standards are the same, we will not allow your goods to be sold here without paying the offset Tariff..........

This worked for 200 years and suddenly everyone said it was broken. It was never broken. Some ditch protectionism and a tariff is a form of that, but Tariff's level the playing field if you believe in trying to maintain your economy instead of someone else's economy. If you go too high on the tariff's you could cause price increases to an extent of blow back for your policies............That is the Catch 22 of doing so. Yet to maintain your economy and jobs for your people it is a necessary evil...............

Free Trade has cost this country MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of jobs........as corps leave knowing they can sell back to the U.S. without Tariffs from some shithole country overseas with no rules at all. Which is wrong for this country and we have paid the price for allowing it.

 

[eagle1462010]

Transatlantic Free Trade Agreement Job Claims Are Pure Baloney Economic Policy Institute

The Senate Finance Committee held hearings this week on the proposed Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP). The committee chair, Sen. Max Baucus, claimed that the TTIP could boost U.S. exports to the EU by a third, adding “more than one hundred billion dollars annually to U.S. GDP,” and that it “could support hundreds of thousands of new jobs in the United States.” The statement is remarkable for its sheer audacity in the face of massive evidence of the failure of similar deals to deliver promised benefits. U.S. trade with Mexico after the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) has cost the United States nearly 700,000 jobs through 2010. U.S. trade with China has certainly failed to deliver on the promised benefits of growing exports. Since that country entered the World Trade Organization (WTO) in 2001, the U.S. has lost 2.7 million jobs through 2011 due to growing trade deficits with China. And the Korea-U.S. Free Trade Agreement (KORUS) has also resulted in growing trade deficits with that country and the loss of more than 40,000 U.S. jobs. Most of the trade-related job losses are concentrated in manufacturing, and growing trade deficits are responsible for a large share of the decline in U.S. manufacturing employment over the past fifteen years.

Using estimates of changes in two-way trade between the U.S. and the EU under the agreement reveals that TTIP is projected to result in a growing U.S. trade deficit with the EU and the loss of at least 71,000 additional U.S. jobs. Senator Baucus, citing advice from Benjamin Franklin, advises the U.S. to “jump quickly at opportunities.” When it comes to evaluating trade deals, Congress and the public would be better served by the common law principle of ‘Caveat Emptor,’ or, let the buyer beware. Congress has a duty to perform their due diligence in evaluating proposed trade and investment agreements before jumping at the next “great deal.” In particular, members should note that Sen. Baucus’s claims that the TTIP “could support hundreds of thousands of new jobs” are pure baloney.

 

[The Rabbi]

Hold the same standards for Imported goods as we do here in America.

We have high standards in America.......Then we should have the same standards for the goods we import.

The result will be lowered unnecessary standards in the USA and more jobs. Win/Win.

If we don't want a 12 year old to work here, why do we allow a 12 year old to produce our goods somewhere else? They are still human. If we don't want certain emissions here, why do we allow those emissions somewhere else on the planet, they still happen..

This is a fair trade versus free trade Op................Adding in the 12 year old being useless to me...........because we have child labor laws here. In other parts of the world not so much.

Allowing Free Trade with companies overseas in back water 3rd World Countries is a joke. They don't have the EPA standards and Labor standards that we have here..........Before the 90's trade contracts were conducted in a give and take basis.............We'll Tariff so much as your country doesn't play by the same rules. Unless your standards are the same, we will not allow your goods to be sold here without paying the offset Tariff..........

This worked for 200 years and suddenly everyone said it was broken. It was never broken. Some ditch protectionism and a tariff is a form of that, but Tariff's level the playing field if you believe in trying to maintain your economy instead of someone else's economy. If you go too high on the tariff's you could cause price increases to an extent of blow back for your policies............That is the Catch 22 of doing so. Yet to maintain your economy and jobs for your people it is a necessary evil...............

Free Trade has cost this country MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of jobs........as corps leave knowing they can sell back to the U.S. without Tariffs from some shithole country overseas with no rules at all. Which is wrong for this country and we have paid the price for allowing it.

Actually little of that is true.
Free trade creates more jobs than it destroys.
Please review some basic Econ theory before posting again.

 

[The Rabbi]

Transatlantic Free Trade Agreement Job Claims Are Pure Baloney Economic Policy Institute

The Senate Finance Committee held hearings this week on the proposed Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP). The committee chair, Sen. Max Baucus, claimed that the TTIP could boost U.S. exports to the EU by a third, adding “more than one hundred billion dollars annually to U.S. GDP,” and that it “could support hundreds of thousands of new jobs in the United States.” The statement is remarkable for its sheer audacity in the face of massive evidence of the failure of similar deals to deliver promised benefits. U.S. trade with Mexico after the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) has cost the United States nearly 700,000 jobs through 2010. U.S. trade with China has certainly failed to deliver on the promised benefits of growing exports. Since that country entered the World Trade Organization (WTO) in 2001, the U.S. has lost 2.7 million jobs through 2011 due to growing trade deficits with China. And the Korea-U.S. Free Trade Agreement (KORUS) has also resulted in growing trade deficits with that country and the loss of more than 40,000 U.S. jobs. Most of the trade-related job losses are concentrated in manufacturing, and growing trade deficits are responsible for a large share of the decline in U.S. manufacturing employment over the past fifteen years.

Using estimates of changes in two-way trade between the U.S. and the EU under the agreement reveals that TTIP is projected to result in a growing U.S. trade deficit with the EU and the loss of at least 71,000 additional U.S. jobs. Senator Baucus, citing advice from Benjamin Franklin, advises the U.S. to “jump quickly at opportunities.” When it comes to evaluating trade deals, Congress and the public would be better served by the common law principle of ‘Caveat Emptor,’ or, let the buyer beware. Congress has a duty to perform their due diligence in evaluating proposed trade and investment agreements before jumping at the next “great deal.” In particular, members should note that Sen. Baucus’s claims that the TTIP “could support hundreds of thousands of new jobs” are pure baloney.

Yeah, that's a hack source.

Who supports us. EPI is a 501(c)(3) corporation. In 2010 through 2012, a majority of our funding (about 60%) was in the form of foundation grants, while another 26% came from labor unions. EPI also receives support from individuals, corporations, and other organizations.]

 

[eagle1462010]

Business and Industry Time Series Trend Charts

I guess that if we like trade deficits it's a good thing............As it has been growing negatively for a long time with big increases since the late 90's.

Rabbi. You and me will just have to disagree. No one in this country can live a $5 a day in wages. Which happens normally in these other countries. Our EPA standards are much higher than these shithole countries as well............and I'm not referring to Europe. So we give them free trade with a decided ADVANTAGE over companies in the United States and then wonder why these companies leave...............

Tariffs historically were the balancing equation for these situations to keep money velocity higher here than in freaking China............Our industrial base has dramatically gone down and that is the deal.

So, I think Free Trade is BS and you don't. That will not change for either of us more than likely.

 

[The Rabbi]

Business and Industry Time Series Trend Charts

I guess that if we like trade deficits it's a good thing............As it has been growing negatively for a long time with big increases since the late 90's.

Rabbi. You and me will just have to disagree. No one in this country can live a $5 a day in wages. Which happens normally in these other countries. Our EPA standards are much higher than these shithole countries as well............and I'm not referring to Europe. So we give them free trade with a decided ADVANTAGE over companies in the United States and then wonder why these companies leave...............

Tariffs historically were the balancing equation for these situations to keep money velocity higher here than in freaking China............Our industrial base has dramatically gone down and that is the deal.

So, I think Free Trade is BS and you don't. That will not change for either of us more than likely.

OK you didnt do what I said and go read an Econ book. That means you've come back with more bullshit.
Remind me why a trade deficit is bad. Apple buys chips from Taiwan for $25. They put them in iPhones and sell them for $100. The US has a 25 trade deficit. Are we actually worse off because of it? Or do you think we'll run out of gold and silver somehow? Mercantilism is dead.
You complain about US gov't policies producing bad results for business but want to blame foreign countries and punish consumers.
Protectionism does not work, has never worked, and cannot work.

 

[eagle1462010]

Business and Industry Time Series Trend Charts

I guess that if we like trade deficits it's a good thing............As it has been growing negatively for a long time with big increases since the late 90's.

Rabbi. You and me will just have to disagree. No one in this country can live a $5 a day in wages. Which happens normally in these other countries. Our EPA standards are much higher than these shithole countries as well............and I'm not referring to Europe. So we give them free trade with a decided ADVANTAGE over companies in the United States and then wonder why these companies leave...............

Tariffs historically were the balancing equation for these situations to keep money velocity higher here than in freaking China............Our industrial base has dramatically gone down and that is the deal.

So, I think Free Trade is BS and you don't. That will not change for either of us more than likely.

OK you didnt do what I said and go read an Econ book. That means you've come back with more bullshit.
Remind me why a trade deficit is bad. Apple buys chips from Taiwan for $25. They put them in iPhones and sell them for $100. The US has a 25 trade deficit. Are we actually worse off because of it? Or do you think we'll run out of gold and silver somehow? Mercantilism is dead.
You complain about US gov't policies producing bad results for business but want to blame foreign countries and punish consumers.
Protectionism does not work, has never worked, and cannot work.

Before Free Trade nothing worked huh............It worked for over 200 years as we negotiated trade agreements on a country by country basis.............And we didn't fall apart then did we.......................

You will say that the benefits of CHEAP Goods outweighs the loss of jobs here in the United States.........I will disagree..........I'm not for full protectionism, but I'm for tariffs that did happen before FREE TRADE............

Holy shit batman,............TARIFFS KILLED OUR COUNTRY..........WE FUCKING DIED 200 YEARS AGO.....................IT DIDN'T WORK.

It worked for 200 plus years asshat. but suddenly it was broken. It's BS, and just because we would tariff some goods to level the playing field doesn't mean it is full PROTECTIONISM............

 

[eagle1462010]

Our tariffs have been about a little over 1% since WWII.

Show me how that 1% or a little more is so danged important. That's is about a penny on the dollar in tariffs...........

 

[FA_Q2]

Hold the same standards for Imported goods as we do here in America.

We have high standards in America.......Then we should have the same standards for the goods we import.

The result will be lowered unnecessary standards in the USA and more jobs. Win/Win.

If we don't want a 12 year old to work here, why do we allow a 12 year old to produce our goods somewhere else? They are still human. If we don't want certain emissions here, why do we allow those emissions somewhere else on the planet, they still happen..

This is a fair trade versus free trade Op................Adding in the 12 year old being useless to me...........because we have child labor laws here. In other parts of the world not so much.

Allowing Free Trade with companies overseas in back water 3rd World Countries is a joke. They don't have the EPA standards and Labor standards that we have here..........Before the 90's trade contracts were conducted in a give and take basis.............We'll Tariff so much as your country doesn't play by the same rules. Unless your standards are the same, we will not allow your goods to be sold here without paying the offset Tariff..........

This worked for 200 years and suddenly everyone said it was broken. It was never broken. Some ditch protectionism and a tariff is a form of that, but Tariff's level the playing field if you believe in trying to maintain your economy instead of someone else's economy. If you go too high on the tariff's you could cause price increases to an extent of blow back for your policies............That is the Catch 22 of doing so. Yet to maintain your economy and jobs for your people it is a necessary evil...............

Free Trade has cost this country MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of jobs........as corps leave knowing they can sell back to the U.S. without Tariffs from some shithole country overseas with no rules at all. Which is wrong for this country and we have paid the price for allowing it.

IT does not matter anymore though - those jobs simply are not coming back.

All of this assumes that the economy of tomorrow resembles the economy of yesterday and that is completely false. We are moving ahead from an industrial to an information age. Trying to hold onto the same useless jobs is equivalent to demanding we stay agrarian after the industrial age began - IOW asinine. Manufacturing is going to be completely labor free over the next few decades. Where it is manufactured is almost entirely irrelevant.

What do you think is going to happen to all the cheap Chinese garbage that we import after 3D printers are common place? They will be irrelevant. When computers only require other computers and robotics to manufacture? When car plants don't have a single worker in them? This - btw - is already being done in aerospace - Boeing has an entire plant that produces aircraft without workers. In order to maintain our edge we are going to have to adapt to the future. I am not sure how - I would bet that the farmers of last century were equally confused about the industrial age - but we are going to have to all the same.

 

[eagle1462010]

Hold the same standards for Imported goods as we do here in America.

We have high standards in America.......Then we should have the same standards for the goods we import.

The result will be lowered unnecessary standards in the USA and more jobs. Win/Win.

If we don't want a 12 year old to work here, why do we allow a 12 year old to produce our goods somewhere else? They are still human. If we don't want certain emissions here, why do we allow those emissions somewhere else on the planet, they still happen..

This is a fair trade versus free trade Op................Adding in the 12 year old being useless to me...........because we have child labor laws here. In other parts of the world not so much.

Allowing Free Trade with companies overseas in back water 3rd World Countries is a joke. They don't have the EPA standards and Labor standards that we have here..........Before the 90's trade contracts were conducted in a give and take basis.............We'll Tariff so much as your country doesn't play by the same rules. Unless your standards are the same, we will not allow your goods to be sold here without paying the offset Tariff..........

This worked for 200 years and suddenly everyone said it was broken. It was never broken. Some ditch protectionism and a tariff is a form of that, but Tariff's level the playing field if you believe in trying to maintain your economy instead of someone else's economy. If you go too high on the tariff's you could cause price increases to an extent of blow back for your policies............That is the Catch 22 of doing so. Yet to maintain your economy and jobs for your people it is a necessary evil...............

Free Trade has cost this country MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of jobs........as corps leave knowing they can sell back to the U.S. without Tariffs from some shithole country overseas with no rules at all. Which is wrong for this country and we have paid the price for allowing it.

IT does not matter anymore though - those jobs simply are not coming back.

All of this assumes that the economy of tomorrow resembles the economy of yesterday and that is completely false. We are moving ahead from an industrial to an information age. Trying to hold onto the same useless jobs is equivalent to demanding we stay agrarian after the industrial age began - IOW asinine. Manufacturing is going to be completely labor free over the next few decades. Where it is manufactured is almost entirely irrelevant.

What do you think is going to happen to all the cheap Chinese garbage that we import after 3D printers are common place? They will be irrelevant. When computers only require other computers and robotics to manufacture? When car plants don't have a single worker in them? This - btw - is already being done in aerospace - Boeing has an entire plant that produces aircraft without workers. In order to maintain our edge we are going to have to adapt to the future. I am not sure how - I would bet that the farmers of last century were equally confused about the industrial age - but we are going to have to all the same.

Which will mean a dependence on foreign goods..............a loss of our industrial base..............

Such as the steel industry.........I'm not in favor of protectionism of U.S. steel, but do believe that China should get hit with tariffs because of their production standards............Not to the extent of Bush's attempt in 2002 which put tariffs to 40% on imported steel as our companies filed bankruptcy time and time again because we are getting our butts kicked by Foreign steel producers.............the 40% equated to an almost ban on imported steel and was stupid policy. He reversed course in 2003 and lifted the tariff.............We also got hit with a 2 BILLION DOLLAR fine by the WTO............

President Announces Temporary Safeguards for Steel Industry

A smaller percentage of tariffs should have been applied, but WAS ILLEGAL under the WTO guidelines................Without the Free Trade agreement we could have sat down on a negotiating table and LIMITED IMPORTS WITHOUT ANY TARIFFS..........to prevent industry losses in the United States...........and had a give and take negotiation with countries like China to ensure it doesn't destroy many of our industries here.......

Up North due to labor unions and inflated employee standards put them under...........Yet where I'm at We've added steel mills and took the jobs the North lost due to it's inflated pay scales.............A smaller tariff and import quota's could actually cause more steel mills to be built here and create jobs without a massive increase in steel prices.

Either way, it's a 2 edged sword......and to lose our industrial base of production is not in the best interest of our country.

 

[eagle1462010]

I will continue to ditch Free Trade.............as in the case of steel......China can whine to the WTO and say they are in violation of treaty as they help destroy an industry in the United States.............Bush caused a near Trade war over the Steel as he went too far on the Tariffs............Had we not been in the WTO we could have negotiated a final solution with these countries to limit imports to the United States to prevent these industries from going under........at the same time they may have demanded less exports in agri business..............

aka negotiate trade on a case by case basis..........and not just blanket agreements...............and why should we give China Free Trade when they don't have the same EPA regs that happen here..................You guarantee our companies leave.............

But oh well.........Industries like these were going to be lost anyway...............and we'll have to get our steel from overseas................That to me is crazy...........and how about we sell China all of our agri crops without limits as well...........They undercut us on steel, so why shouldn't we be able to put their growers out of jobs and business as well.......

 

[Roadrunner]

Hold the same standards for Imported goods as we do here in America.

We have high standards in America.......Then we should have the same standards for the goods we import.

The result will be lowered unnecessary standards in the USA and more jobs. Win/Win.

If we don't want a 12 year old to work here, why do we allow a 12 year old to produce our goods somewhere else? They are still human. If we don't want certain emissions here, why do we allow those emissions somewhere else on the planet, they still happen..

I guess the first question I would ask is what makes you think today's Republicans (like those on here) DON'T want our 12 year old's to be working?

Then there is the issue of what makes you think that today's Republicans (like those on here) give a shit about whatever emissions are emitted here in the USA. You know that air pollution thing is as made up as GW.

No, today's global capitalist's are fine with American 12 YO working. You don't have to pay them as much and the transportation costs for the goods would be much less.

Besides that, it wouldn't be THEIR 12 YO son or daughter working.

funny, because it damn sure would be.

It is excellent for a child to get a first job rather young - perfect time to learn good work habits. Paper routs and the like used to be the realm for those children to gain real world experience. What is so wrong with that? Nothing.

I started working around 15 and learned a lot doing it. It was a damn good thing I did, those habits I developed then have carried me through life. Unfortunately, such is massively taboo now without any cause whatsoever.

I was selling Kool aid to construction workers at 8, between lawn mowing jobs and leaf raking jobs.

Work never hurt anyone but a Democrat.

Freed from the tyranny of work, today's Democrats want more and more freebies.

It is a never ending quest for the good life for no effort.

Want to solve the unemployment and illegal worker problem?

Adopt a "don't work, don't eat policy", and see how fast the chronically unemployed take the jobs the illegals are doing, forcing them to go back home.

 

[eagle1462010]

Import-Export Taxes and Duties in China - China Briefing News

Importing to and exporting from China generally involves three types of taxes:

1. Value-added tax;
2. Consumption tax; and
3. Customs duties.

1. Value-added Tax for Imported Goods
Imported goods to China are subject to value-added tax (VAT), and the applicable tax rates are the same as those applied to goods sold within the domestic market (i.e. 17 percent, and 13 percent for some goods). VAT is payable on the day of customs clearance.

The input VAT imposed on importing goods can be used to deduct the output VAT paid when the imported goods are sold in the domestic market.

2. Consumption Tax for Imported Goods
Items subject to consumption tax (CT) include luxury products such as high-end watches, non-renewable petroleum products such as diesel oil, and high-energy consumption products such as passenger cars and motorcycles.

Import CT is collected either on an ad valorem basis or quantity basis, with tax rates and amounts varying greatly. CT should be paid within 15 days from the day that Customs issues the Import CT Bill of Payment.

3. Customs Duties
Customs duties include import duties and export duties, with a total of 8,238 items taxed, according to China’s 2013 Customs Tariff Implementation Plan (“2013 Tariff Plan”). Customs duties are computed either on an ad valorem basis or quantity basis.

Import Duties
Duty rates on import goods consist of:

• Most-favored-nation duty (MFN) rates;
• Conventional duty rates;
• Special preferential duty rates;
• General duty rates;
• Tariff rate quota (TRQ) duty rates; and
• Temporary duty rates.

MFN duty rates
MFN rates are the most commonly adopted import duty rates. They are much lower than the general rates which apply to non-MFN nations. They apply to the following goods:

• Goods imported to China from WTO member countries;
• Goods originating from countries or territories which have concluded bilateral trade agreements containing provisions on MFN treatment with China; and
• Goods that originated from China.

- See more at: Import-Export Taxes and Duties in China - China Briefing News

http://www.wto.org/english/res_e/booksp_e/tariff_profiles13_e.pdf

Actual import rates from the WTO...........MFN Applied 9.6 from China all products (MOST FAVORED NATION).........the United States applied is 3.4...........

China's import duty for all products is 3 to 1 to the United States.........

and we don't have a VAT TAX on imports...........Which is 13 to 17% on imports to their country............So they TAX A VAT on IMPORTS and then call don't call it a TARIFF................

Which is BS, because we don't impose the same on their products..............

HEY CHINA..............if you impose a 17% VAT on our products to your country........then we'll create a VAT of 17% on your products as you have done to us to level the playing field............but since it's a VAT TAX..............the WTO RULES NEED NOT APPLY,.