How to Create a Job that has Value

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Foxfyre, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    NOTE TO MODERATORS: This is in politics for a reason and WILL relate to the current politial environment!!!

    What is a job that has value as opposed to a 'make work' job? How are jobs with value created?

    So who has the better plan?

    The President who wants to spend more money to 'create jobs', who wants to tax the rich more, who wants to regulate everything more, who promotes legislation with heavy impact on present and future job creation?

    Or the Tea Party Conservative Republicans who want to lower taxes on job creators, want to reduce regulation on job creators, and want to make policy permanent enough to encourage job creators to release trillions of investment capitol they are now sitting on?
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011
  2. Baruch Menachem
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    Baruch Menachem '

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    the best plan might be to put a freeze on the federal register for a year.

    The big complaint most business has is they can't budget for the new regulations.
     
  3. Dragon
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    Dragon Senior Member

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    The best way to create a job that has value is to boost wages for the jobs that already exist. This will increase demand for consumer goods, which will increase demand for labor to produce those consumer goods, which will create jobs.

    Another way, not quite as good but not completely awful, is to put money in the hands of consumers some other way, e.g. through government work programs, tax cuts for the middle class and working class, or payment of benefits such as UI. This also creates consumer demand but not as effectively or broadly as an increase in wages.

    The worst way to create a job that has value is to cut taxes for big business on the mistaken idea that businesses create jobs because money burns a hole in their pockets. Businesses create jobs because there is unsatisfied demand for the goods and services those jobs create in turn. How much money they have/keep/whatever makes little or no difference.
     
  4. Jarhead
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    Jarhead Gold Member

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    The answer is

    "stop giving business owners reason to think another bomb is going to drop affecting their success"
     
  5. Dragon
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    Dragon Senior Member

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    No, the gain in wages will far outstrip any increase in prices. We have plenty of historical examples to prove this.

    This assumes that people already have everything they need, which is not the case. As for your theoretical question about unemployment, we have a very recent example disproving your idea.

    True, but you should question whether that "if" is based on a false premise.

    All business owners know very well that bombs can drop any time. If every business owner were to somehow feel perfectly confident that nothing is going to change in government regulations, taxes, or economic essentials for the next twelve months, they would still not invest in job-creating activities because there would still be a dearth of customers.

    While too much insecurity can also depress investment, I know of no historical incidents of this that didn't involve major war or huge natural disaster. A minor flux in taxes or government regulations comes nowhere near the magnitude of uncertainty required.
     
  6. alan1
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    alan1 USMB Mod Staff Member Supporting Member

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    If we take exactly half the unemployed people and use government (tax payer) money to pay them to dig holes, AND, then we pay the other half to fill in those holes (also with tax payer money), we have just created 100% employment, and everybody has a job. there is no value in those jobs, but yay us for achieving 100% employment.

    Or

    I could go on vacation and create jobs.
    See, I could fly someplace, that would mean an airline pilot, flight attendants, ticket agents, airplane mechanics, control tower employees and yes, even the guy that cleans the bathroom at the airport all have a job.
    Additionally, I would stay in a hotel. The desk clerk, the maid, the builder of the hotel and the people that work in the bedding factory that supply the hotel will all have jobs.
    I'll visit restaurants when I am on vacation. The chef, wait staff and the dishwasher will all have jobs. So will the growers of the produce or ranchers that supply food to the restaurant, as well as the food delivery person for the restaurant.

    Me spending money is an endless supply of jobs for people, jobs that provide value. Me giving my money to the government to spend is just full of waste.
     
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  7. Uncensored2008
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    Uncensored2008 Libertarian Radical Supporting Member

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    Since 2008, the wages of federal workers has risen 22%, California state workers have seen 36% more in income (AB 2462.)

    So why is it that California has the second highest unemployment in the nation? Why does national unemployment remain over 9%? Why are we right back in a recession when we never recovered from the last one?

    Why didn't the opulence provided our government aristocracy increase the demand for labor to produce consumer goods as you claim?

    So unemployment is the path to prosperity?

    Maybe if we put a 100% tax on all business, the economy will be booming?

    You've got it all figured out. Funny that you don't own a business of your own and are stuck in a government job.....
     
  8. Baron
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    Baron Gold Member

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    Yeah, only this is the right way to create more jobs.
     
  9. Uncensored2008
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    Uncensored2008 Libertarian Radical Supporting Member

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    No, we most certainly don't. Even Keynes didn't promote such nonsense.

    You assume that no one will save or service debt with the free money, and that the goods they buy will be domestically produced.

    All of these are faulty assumptions.

    Why?

    That business expands and creates jobs when the risk of doing so is less than the gain offered is a matter of established fact.

    The bombers are circling at this moment, with Obama leading the assault.

    That is an utterly stupid claim.

    Really?

    Can I introduce you to 2008?

    Where do you get this nonsense? What you post is incredibly ignorant and shows zero grasp of basic economic principles. Are you Paul Krugman?
     
  10. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    The ONLY gain in wages that will produce the results you suggest are those based on the VALUE of the work performed. The thread title is how to create a job that has value. In the introduction to economics, we all should have learned that labor is a commodity just as energy, raw materials, transportation, and facilities are commodities that go into the price of a product. There is an optimum value on the labor that produces an effective work force that facilitates maximum value on the product produced.

    Artificially inflate the labor beyond what its value is, and the ripple effect through the economy artificially inflates the cost of everything. Busineses are not charities and they will not hire people for which they do not receive value for the wages paid.

    If your theory was correct why not raise the minimum wage to $20/hour and REALLY generate economic activity?

    Every dollar the government pays to anybody for everything has to be printed and if more are printed than the economy is generating, everybody's dollars are reduced in value meaning they will need more of them to buy anything. And if the government taxes others to give more 'necessities' to those who don't have them, every dollar taxed is a dollar that is not available to increase wages or benefits, to expand businesses, to invest so other businesses can grow, to save for others to borrow as venture capital, or to hire new people.

    Absolutely not a false premise. If the odds are against the money I invest providing a reasonable return, I'm not going to invest it. If I don't know what the tax and regulation policy is going to be six months from now, a year from now, two to ten years from now, I am not going to risk the investment capital I have and wind up with nothing. I'll just hold onto to which is unacceptable, but at least not as dangerous as losing it all.


    War is not a jobs killer. Natural disasters are temporary. But excess taxation and regulation isn't something a business can recover from. It eats away at profits and incentive, month by month, year by year. And for many businesses, it just isn't worth it. All of life is a risk and there will be winners and losers and the possibility of failure is real for anybody who takes a risk. But the businessman has no power to manage onerous taxes and regulation, and when the government is giving him NO assurance of what he can expect, he is an idiot to risk the investment capital that he has and may need to use to keep a roof over his head and feed his family.

    Most especially when we're dealing with an Administration that seems to be hung up on class warfare and seems to have zero understanding of how jobs with value are created, and what runs a healthy economy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011

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