How to avoid taxes and bite the hand that cared for you.....

[wjmacguffin]

And it EQUATES.. they also want to (and do) pay nothing and want the benefits of a free society... even MORESO as they get MORE freebies at the expense of others who do pay

NOBODY is too poor to pay taxes in a society that is supposedly based on equal treatment by government under law... your PERSONAL situation is your PERSONAL situation.. if you indeed have to work a second job to get by because you are now paying the same X% as everyone else, so be it

YOU say you cannot compare because of a SUBJECTIVE analysis of their situation and not an OBJECTIVE view of equality in treatment

Comparing the financial status of someone making $10,000/year and someone making $1,000,000/year is not equivalent.

Most people do not want to pay taxes. The original argument was that Sevarin wants the benefits of a free society but does not want to pay them. What was implied was this: Sevarin can easily pay his taxes. If you take $500,000 from Sevarin, he still has millions. If you take $1000 from a family under the poverty line, they are severely affected--many live paycheck to paycheck.

And with our economy the way it is, do you really think that it's as easy as "get a second job"?

Again... you are using the SUBJECTIVE view of analyzing their personal situation.... wanting something for free is wanting something for free

Because someone can afford more does not mean that they should pay more in a society based on equal treatment and freedom.... what next?? Charge the person who makes 100K $15 for a gallon of milk while you at $50K pay $4??

The problem with many is not finding a second or first job... it is their unwillingness to take the job they deem as 'lesser'... You drive to your local mall, Home Depot, local manufacturing business district or whatever and you will see plenty of jobs out there... I could walk down the street tomorrow if I lost my tech job and start as an assistant manager at Sheetz convenience store... I could get a bar-tending job at night at Charlestown Racetrack or the sports saloon in the next town over the river... I can go to the turkey farm down the street and clean stalls.. I can go to the aluminum plant near the school and start working custodial or even a night shift job on the line.... I, unlike others, am not too proud to do what it takes... and I, unlike others, do not expect others who do better to be forcibly coerced into taking care of my personal responsibilities or tax burdens for me... I do, however, expect everyone to be treated equally and hence everyone to pay the same rate on every dollar earned in federal income tax, etc, without exception because I believe in equal treatment by government under law

How is comparing their income subjective? And who is wanting something for free? To me, it's Sevarin, who took advantage of all our nation has to offer and now wants to leave.

As for a "society based on equal treatment and freedom", see my earlier post. The impact of an "equal" tax rate is not equal treatment. And how does freedom enter into this? Or are you saying taxation is a violation of freedom?

As for folks not finding a single or second job, you are probably right in some cases. I can see low-wage jobs too, and while they are low-wage, low is better than none. But that's not the point of this thread, which is about Sevarin leaving because he doesn't want to pay taxes.

 

[DiamondDave]

I think DiamondDave's reasoning is based on equality meaning everyone pays the same tax rate. However, that's not truly equal because the impact of the tax is different.

If we had a flat 10% tax rate, someone earning $25k a year would pay $2,500 while someone earning $3million a year would pay $300K. Yes, the $300K is much larger than the $2.5K. But the impact on their lives is significantly different. The poor guy will struggle to pay his bills at $25K, so losing 10% has a bigger impact on him. The rich guy will lose more cash but will still be able to easily pay for necessities and then some.

On the surface, a flat tax seems fair but the impact isn't.

And DiamondDave, I apologize if I misinterpreted your intent.

your analysis of the impact is SUBJECTIVE AGAIN.... and the use of 'fair' once again as well

Your personal situation is your personal situation...

What next?? Analyzing the differences between people who make 50K?? I mean Person X earns 50K but lives in a lower cost of living area, has 20K in debt and owns a house scott free... Person Y earns 50K lives in NYC, has 60K in debt, and rents an apartment for 2500 a month?? Now person X should pay more in taxes because he can afford to more??

This is why the subjectivity in our system needs to go away... with freedom and equality comes both positives and negatives.. but I will take those in a heartbeat over the corruption brought about by the subjectivity and pandering

 

[DiamondDave]

Comparing the financial status of someone making $10,000/year and someone making $1,000,000/year is not equivalent.

Most people do not want to pay taxes. The original argument was that Sevarin wants the benefits of a free society but does not want to pay them. What was implied was this: Sevarin can easily pay his taxes. If you take $500,000 from Sevarin, he still has millions. If you take $1000 from a family under the poverty line, they are severely affected--many live paycheck to paycheck.

And with our economy the way it is, do you really think that it's as easy as "get a second job"?

Again... you are using the SUBJECTIVE view of analyzing their personal situation.... wanting something for free is wanting something for free

Because someone can afford more does not mean that they should pay more in a society based on equal treatment and freedom.... what next?? Charge the person who makes 100K $15 for a gallon of milk while you at $50K pay $4??

The problem with many is not finding a second or first job... it is their unwillingness to take the job they deem as 'lesser'... You drive to your local mall, Home Depot, local manufacturing business district or whatever and you will see plenty of jobs out there... I could walk down the street tomorrow if I lost my tech job and start as an assistant manager at Sheetz convenience store... I could get a bar-tending job at night at Charlestown Racetrack or the sports saloon in the next town over the river... I can go to the turkey farm down the street and clean stalls.. I can go to the aluminum plant near the school and start working custodial or even a night shift job on the line.... I, unlike others, am not too proud to do what it takes... and I, unlike others, do not expect others who do better to be forcibly coerced into taking care of my personal responsibilities or tax burdens for me... I do, however, expect everyone to be treated equally and hence everyone to pay the same rate on every dollar earned in federal income tax, etc, without exception because I believe in equal treatment by government under law

How is comparing their income subjective? And who is wanting something for free? To me, it's Sevarin, who took advantage of all our nation has to offer and now wants to leave.

As for a "society based on equal treatment and freedom", see my earlier post. The impact of an "equal" tax rate is not equal treatment. And how does freedom enter into this? Or are you saying taxation is a violation of freedom?

As for folks not finding a single or second job, you are probably right in some cases. I can see low-wage jobs too, and while they are low-wage, low is better than none. But that's not the point of this thread, which is about Sevarin leaving because he doesn't want to pay taxes.

Comparing the 'impact' and their personal situations is indeed SUBJECTIVE...

Who is wanting something for free.. those who pay nothing in federal income tax while deriving entitlement and benefit from it (and again, don't try and go down the "other taxes" route when the 'rich' also pay those same "other taxes")

I am not saying taxation is a violation of freedom... I am saying that benefit for nothing while other spay for it is indeed a violation of freedom, of those who are footing the bill

Do I personally think one should give up citizenship like this?? Nope.. I think you fight for change... but I stand by the freedom of this guy to do this, whether I agree with him or not...

 

[wjmacguffin]

I think DiamondDave's reasoning is based on equality meaning everyone pays the same tax rate. However, that's not truly equal because the impact of the tax is different.

If we had a flat 10% tax rate, someone earning $25k a year would pay $2,500 while someone earning $3million a year would pay $300K. Yes, the $300K is much larger than the $2.5K. But the impact on their lives is significantly different. The poor guy will struggle to pay his bills at $25K, so losing 10% has a bigger impact on him. The rich guy will lose more cash but will still be able to easily pay for necessities and then some.

On the surface, a flat tax seems fair but the impact isn't.

And DiamondDave, I apologize if I misinterpreted your intent.

your analysis of the impact is SUBJECTIVE AGAIN.... and the use of 'fair' once again as well

Your personal situation is your personal situation...

What next?? Analyzing the differences between people who make 50K?? I mean Person X earns 50K but lives in a lower cost of living area, has 20K in debt and owns a house scott free... Person Y earns 50K lives in NYC, has 60K in debt, and rents an apartment for 2500 a month?? Now person X should pay more in taxes because he can afford to more??

This is why the subjectivity in our system needs to go away... with freedom and equality comes both positives and negatives.. but I will take those in a heartbeat over the corruption brought about by the subjectivity and pandering

DiamondDave, can you please explain why my analysis is SUBJECTIVE? I'm not being grumpy, I just want to understand your thoughts better.

And I agree that "fair" can be a slippery term but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it.

 

[Truthmatters]

I am not backing anything but their freedom to do this sort of action in a free society, if they so wish

It is not how YOU want taxes to work.. you WANT a punitive system based on subjective unequal treatment of others to get the things you want... I want equality in treatment of all citizens without the subjectivity which breeds corruption, pandering, and abuse of power

Idiot twatsicle

listen dick limp,


One whole group of filthy rich mothers say the threat makers are lying about being able to make money here.

Why do you instead take up the mantle of the threat heavers?

Again.. bitch... I take up the mantle of equal treatment by government under law.... AS I ALWAYS HAVE... whether i agree with one person's take on whether they want more money or whether they wish to give up their citizenship or whatever else...

It is not up to you or government to say how much they should make or that they should pay for someone else's benefits or personal responsibilities....

yes.. we do have a debt... a debt that ~50% of us are paying for... while the government overspends more every day...

Cut the spending.. equalize the tax system.. equalize treatment of all citizens without pandering... eliminate unlawful and unnecessary government and start healing the damage that our government system has done in the past 100+ years (because of both political parties)

dear idiot , its what taxes have been doing for our entire history.

There is a reason Americans desided to tax people at differeing rates.

Just because your too stupid to understand why does not mean you get your way.


You were out voted on this LONG ago

 

[DiamondDave]

I think DiamondDave's reasoning is based on equality meaning everyone pays the same tax rate. However, that's not truly equal because the impact of the tax is different.

If we had a flat 10% tax rate, someone earning $25k a year would pay $2,500 while someone earning $3million a year would pay $300K. Yes, the $300K is much larger than the $2.5K. But the impact on their lives is significantly different. The poor guy will struggle to pay his bills at $25K, so losing 10% has a bigger impact on him. The rich guy will lose more cash but will still be able to easily pay for necessities and then some.

On the surface, a flat tax seems fair but the impact isn't.

And DiamondDave, I apologize if I misinterpreted your intent.

your analysis of the impact is SUBJECTIVE AGAIN.... and the use of 'fair' once again as well

Your personal situation is your personal situation...

What next?? Analyzing the differences between people who make 50K?? I mean Person X earns 50K but lives in a lower cost of living area, has 20K in debt and owns a house scott free... Person Y earns 50K lives in NYC, has 60K in debt, and rents an apartment for 2500 a month?? Now person X should pay more in taxes because he can afford to more??

This is why the subjectivity in our system needs to go away... with freedom and equality comes both positives and negatives.. but I will take those in a heartbeat over the corruption brought about by the subjectivity and pandering

DiamondDave, can you please explain why my analysis is SUBJECTIVE? I'm not being grumpy, I just want to understand your thoughts better.

And I agree that "fair" can be a slippery term but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it.

Because when you take into account their personal problems, living situations, and whether you deem person X as being more comfortable in paying more compared to person Y, you bring subjective judgement and feeling into it... as justice is blind, so should taxation be, and all aspects of governmental dealings with the citizenry

We should NOT strive for fair... as stated.. fair is SUBJECTIVE... EQUALITY in treatment is what you strive for... you know where you stand, whether your footing is 'better' than someone else or not... subjectivity in playing the 'fair' card has led us further away from equality in treatment than ever before... it has been the engine that has helped this government grow out of control in power, size, spending, reach, and footprint...

 

[DiamondDave]

listen dick limp,


One whole group of filthy rich mothers say the threat makers are lying about being able to make money here.

Why do you instead take up the mantle of the threat heavers?

Again.. bitch... I take up the mantle of equal treatment by government under law.... AS I ALWAYS HAVE... whether i agree with one person's take on whether they want more money or whether they wish to give up their citizenship or whatever else...

It is not up to you or government to say how much they should make or that they should pay for someone else's benefits or personal responsibilities....

yes.. we do have a debt... a debt that ~50% of us are paying for... while the government overspends more every day...

Cut the spending.. equalize the tax system.. equalize treatment of all citizens without pandering... eliminate unlawful and unnecessary government and start healing the damage that our government system has done in the past 100+ years (because of both political parties)

dear idiot , its what taxes have been doing for our entire history.

There is a reason Americans desided to tax people at differeing rates.

Just because your too stupid to understand why does not mean you get your way.


You were out voted on this LONG ago

1) Not for our entire history... perhaps you should learn your history
2) 'Americans' did not decide.. nor should the citizenry decide... because of human nature of wanting to gain the advantage... and it is exactly why we have a constitution to limit government and not allow tyranny of the masses

And you of all people calling someone else stupid... that is the funniest thing I have seen all day

 

[Truthmatters]

I want everyone to get tax cuts, poor people, homophobic racists like you, rich people, middle class, everyone. Everyone should have their taxes cut.

Being a dick lick is not a bad thing unless you think licking dick is bad right?


I dont think it is and my hubby appreciates that stand of mine.


Everyone cant get a tax cut all the time.

tax cuts have their place in our government but NOW is not one of them.

WE ARE IN DEBT.

Time to pay the bills.

Even for rich fucks who threaten us so they dont have to..

No, you call people butt pirates. Everyone know that's a homophobic slur, just like oreo is a racial slur. Obviously you don't have the integrity not to use such hateful terms, but it'd be nice if you at least had the integrity to apologize after you use them. You don't even have that.

No, it's time to get rid of the bills, i.e. cut spending in all areas.

No sometimes butt pirates are people who reach into their own colon for "facts".


Like your "cut spending" plan.

The right seems to think we dont need to spend on anything.

WE do.

I will stop calling you any kind of name if you promise not to call me any names.....deal?


I have tried not calling names in the past and it got me NO respect what so ever so I went back to it because its the way I talk in real life.

you see words are just words to me and I joke like that with my real world friends all the time.

how long do you think you can last without calling me a name?

 

[Truthmatters]

Again.. bitch... I take up the mantle of equal treatment by government under law.... AS I ALWAYS HAVE... whether i agree with one person's take on whether they want more money or whether they wish to give up their citizenship or whatever else...

It is not up to you or government to say how much they should make or that they should pay for someone else's benefits or personal responsibilities....

yes.. we do have a debt... a debt that ~50% of us are paying for... while the government overspends more every day...

Cut the spending.. equalize the tax system.. equalize treatment of all citizens without pandering... eliminate unlawful and unnecessary government and start healing the damage that our government system has done in the past 100+ years (because of both political parties)

dear idiot , its what taxes have been doing for our entire history.

There is a reason Americans desided to tax people at differeing rates.

Just because your too stupid to understand why does not mean you get your way.


You were out voted on this LONG ago

1) Not for our entire history... perhaps you should learn your history
2) 'Americans' did not decide.. nor should the citizenry decide... because of human nature of wanting to gain the advantage... and it is exactly why we have a constitution to limit government and not allow tyranny of the masses

And you of all people calling someone else stupid... that is the funniest thing I have seen all day

so now you claim it should be illegal to collect taxes on anyone?

 

[wjmacguffin]

Because when you take into account their personal problems, living situations, and whether you deem person X as being more comfortable in paying more compared to person Y, you bring subjective judgement and feeling into it... as justice is blind, so should taxation be, and all aspects of governmental dealings with the citizenry

We should NOT strive for fair... as stated.. fair is SUBJECTIVE... EQUALITY in treatment is what you strive for... you know where you stand, whether your footing is 'better' than someone else or not... subjectivity in playing the 'fair' card has led us further away from equality in treatment than ever before... it has been the engine that has helped this government grow out of control in power, size, spending, reach, and footprint...

What makes treatment equal? Must it be identical?

Bob killed for money.
Jack killed to defend his wife from being murdered.
Ryan killed a soldier in war.

Should they all face the same penalty? Is there any room for intent in your system?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Being a dick lick is not a bad thing unless you think licking dick is bad right?


I dont think it is and my hubby appreciates that stand of mine.


Everyone cant get a tax cut all the time.

tax cuts have their place in our government but NOW is not one of them.

WE ARE IN DEBT.

Time to pay the bills.

Even for rich fucks who threaten us so they dont have to..

No, you call people butt pirates. Everyone know that's a homophobic slur, just like oreo is a racial slur. Obviously you don't have the integrity not to use such hateful terms, but it'd be nice if you at least had the integrity to apologize after you use them. You don't even have that.

No, it's time to get rid of the bills, i.e. cut spending in all areas.

No sometimes butt pirates are people who reach into their own colon for "facts".


Like your "cut spending" plan.

The right seems to think we dont need to spend on anything.

WE do.

I will stop calling you any kind of name if you promise not to call me any names.....deal?


I have tried not calling names in the past and it got me NO respect what so ever so I went back to it because its the way I talk in real life.

you see words are just words to me and I joke like that with my real world friends all the time.

how long do you think you can last without calling me a name?

Lol god you're such a liar. No butt pirate is a man who enjoys butt sex with other men. You used the term in a negative way, because you're a homophobe just like you used the term oreo because you're a racist.

I don't need rules imposed on me to keep from being a racist or a homophobe, like you do.

 

[Truthmatters]

Ok you hate me , that has been established.

Back to the question of why you back the millionaires who threaten to leave if they dotn get their way instead of the millionaires who say they dont need a tax cut to stay?


why??????

 

[Truthmatters]

What does it gain you to back wealthy people who threaten us to get their way?


why are you such a pussy when they tell you to jump that you jump?

 

[Truthmatters]

there are pleanty of welathy people who say HELL NO I wont leave if I am asked to pay my fair share.

why do you not like them?

 

[Truthmatters]

Why instead does the right run all fucking scared and lick the boots of the people who would leave for a buck

then


you trash the people that say HELL NO Im sticking with my country even in hard times

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Push your partisan hackerey up your ass.

You're such a whiney little bitch.... you really are.

 

[Truthmatters]

Got nothing huh?

 

[mudwhistle]

There are two camps of millionares in this country.

One says they will leave if we dont give them what they want.

One says the ones threatening to leave and they dont need a tax cut to stay an make money.


Why do you back the ones who threaten us ?

I think you should learn some new words or phrases. Maybe some less accusatory words.

You're wearing out these.

Words and phrases like "The Rich threaten us".

Seems to me the only people throwing out threats are folks like Chucky Schumer.

 

[wjmacguffin]

There are two camps of millionares in this country.

One says they will leave if we dont give them what they want.

One says the ones threatening to leave and they dont need a tax cut to stay an make money.


Why do you back the ones who threaten us ?

I think you should learn some new words or phrases. Maybe some less accusatory words.

You're wearing out these.

Words and phrases like "The Rich threaten us".

Seems to me the only people throwing out threats are folks like Chucky Schumer.

I think what he's trying to say is this.

• Some of the rich in the USA are saying taxes should be raised.
• Other rich folk are threatening to leave the USA if taxes aren't lowered.
• It doesn't make sense to hate the rich who want more taxes and support the rich who threaten to leave.

I must say, I agree.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

I mean fuck dude.........................would YOU allow someone to use the resouces of this country, only to run out on the check when it came due?

Corporations do that all the time to communities in this country. Go in, get tax incentives, use up all the resources available and then leave when they see the possibility of slightly better profits in some other slave labor country or right-to-NOT-work state - and if you're the biggest employer in town, you decimate that entire community as well. Lovely "people", these corporations.