How the system is rigged. A tale of CEO's.

[alan1]

We all know that the average person is screwed when it comes to becoming one of those hugely wealthy CEO's of a company. The media and the liberals (redundancy alert) tell us so.
You and I and everybody else is screwed by a rigged system that prevents us from becoming wealthy and enjoying success.
If you don't believe me, just look at these examples of CEO's.

Jim Skinner. Former CEO of McDonalds. He never graduated college and started his career at McDonalds as a manager trainee.
Brian Dunn. Former CEO of Best Buy. He never attended college and started his career at Best Buy as a salesman.
Jack Welch. Son of a railroad conductor. He became the CEO of GE.
Bill Gates. College dropout and founder/CEO of Microsoft.
Steve Jobs. College dropout and founder/CEO of Apple. He was adopted by a middle class family.
Rodney McMullen. CEO of Kroger, the second largest retail company in America. He was born on a family farm and started at Kroger as a stock clerk.
Fred DeLuca. Founder and CEO of Subway. He borrowed $1000 to start the company that now has more resturaunts worldwide than any other resturaunt.
Doug McMillon. Doug started as a summer seasonal employee in a Walmart warehouse when he was a teenager. He is now the CEO of the largest company in the world, WalMart.

Oh wait, I meant we all have the opportunity.

 

[Dad2three]

We all know that the average person is screwed when it comes to becoming one of those hugely wealthy CEO's of a company. The media and the liberals (redundancy alert) tell us so.
You and I and everybody else is screwed by a rigged system that prevents us from becoming wealthy and enjoying success.
If you don't believe me, just look at these examples of CEO's.

Jim Skinner. Former CEO of McDonalds. He never graduated college and started his career at McDonalds as a manager trainee.
Brian Dunn. Former CEO of Best Buy. He never attended college and started his career at Best Buy as a salesman.
Jack Welch. Son of a railroad conductor. He became the CEO of GE.
Bill Gates. College dropout and founder/CEO of Microsoft.
Steve Jobs. College dropout and founder/CEO of Apple. He was adopted by a middle class family.
Rodney McMullen. CEO of Kroger, the second largest retail company in America. He was born on a family farm and started at Kroger as a stock clerk.
Fred DeLuca. Founder and CEO of Subway. He borrowed $1000 to start the company that now has more resturaunts worldwide than any other resturaunt.
Doug McMillon. Doug started as a summer seasonal employee in a Walmart warehouse when he was a teenager. He is now the CEO of the largest company in the world, WalMart.

Oh wait, I meant we all have the opportunity.

Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO
Study: The Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO (Vocativ)
Daniel Edward Rosen looks at a study from the University of Utah, which shows that companies that pay CEOs more than $20 million a year have average annual losses over $1 billion.


The Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO | Vocativ

Roosevelt Take: Roosevelt Institute Fellow and Director of Research Susan Holmberg and Campus Network alumna Lydia Austin look at additional ways high CEO pay distorts the economy.


Fixing a Hole: How the Tax Code for Executive Pay Distorts Economic Incentives and Burdens Taxpayers

Fixing a Hole: How the Tax Code for Executive Pay Distorts Economic Incentives and Burdens Taxpayers | Roosevelt Institute




The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says

Across the board, the more CEOs get paid, the worse their companies do over the next three years, according to extensive new research. This is true whether they’re CEOs at the highest end of the pay spectrum or the lowest. “The more CEOs are paid, the worse the firm does over the next three years, as far as stock performance and even accounting performance,” says one of the authors of the study, Michael Cooper of the University of Utah’s David Eccles School of Business.


The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says - Forbes


The More A Company Pays Its CEO, The Worse Its Shareholders Do




80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated.



Successful Americans didn't make their money themselves. They conducted business in an ordered society with roads and laws and a military that defends it from foreign invaders and they hired people. Nobody wants YOUR money, they want the share they contributed to it

 

[Dad2three]

Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite



Andrew Mellon had a few distinctly progressive ideas. Of particular note, he suggested taxing "earned" income from wages and salaries more lightly that "unearned" income from investments. As he argued:


The fairness of taxing more lightly income from wages, salaries or from investments is beyond question. In the first case, the income is uncertain and limited in duration; sickness or death destroys it and old age diminishes it; in the other, the source of income continues; the income may be disposed of during a man's life and it descends to his heirs.

Surely we can afford to make a distinction between the people whose only capital is their mental and physical energy and the people whose income is derived from investments. Such a distinction would mean much to millions of American workers and would be an added inspiration to the man who must provide a competence during his few productive years to care for himself and his family when his earnings capacity is at an end.



Tax History Project -- The Republican Roots of New Deal Tax Policy

 

[Dad2three]

Reaganomics turned America from the greatest creditor nation to the greatest debtor nation over the last 30 years. Time to recognize Republican economic policy for the failure it is


What would be the ultimate purpose of a Political Party that:

1. Grew The Size Of Government.

2. Grew The Debt Tremendously.

3. Slashed Taxes that supports Government Services.

4. Fired Massive Numbers of Government "Service" Providers, and gutted Government Departments to "pay" for the debt they created.

5. Then Pro-Claimed "See, Government doesn't work and costs too much.", and it's the Liberal Communists fault."

 

[alan1]

We all know that the average person is screwed when it comes to becoming one of those hugely wealthy CEO's of a company. The media and the liberals (redundancy alert) tell us so.
You and I and everybody else is screwed by a rigged system that prevents us from becoming wealthy and enjoying success.
If you don't believe me, just look at these examples of CEO's.

Jim Skinner. Former CEO of McDonalds. He never graduated college and started his career at McDonalds as a manager trainee.
Brian Dunn. Former CEO of Best Buy. He never attended college and started his career at Best Buy as a salesman.
Jack Welch. Son of a railroad conductor. He became the CEO of GE.
Bill Gates. College dropout and founder/CEO of Microsoft.
Steve Jobs. College dropout and founder/CEO of Apple. He was adopted by a middle class family.
Rodney McMullen. CEO of Kroger, the second largest retail company in America. He was born on a family farm and started at Kroger as a stock clerk.
Fred DeLuca. Founder and CEO of Subway. He borrowed $1000 to start the company that now has more resturaunts worldwide than any other resturaunt.
Doug McMillon. Doug started as a summer seasonal employee in a Walmart warehouse when he was a teenager. He is now the CEO of the largest company in the world, WalMart.

Oh wait, I meant we all have the opportunity.

Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO
Study: The Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO (Vocativ)
Daniel Edward Rosen looks at a study from the University of Utah, which shows that companies that pay CEOs more than $20 million a year have average annual losses over $1 billion.


The Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO | Vocativ

Roosevelt Take: Roosevelt Institute Fellow and Director of Research Susan Holmberg and Campus Network alumna Lydia Austin look at additional ways high CEO pay distorts the economy.


Fixing a Hole: How the Tax Code for Executive Pay Distorts Economic Incentives and Burdens Taxpayers

Fixing a Hole: How the Tax Code for Executive Pay Distorts Economic Incentives and Burdens Taxpayers | Roosevelt Institute




The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says

Across the board, the more CEOs get paid, the worse their companies do over the next three years, according to extensive new research. This is true whether they’re CEOs at the highest end of the pay spectrum or the lowest. “The more CEOs are paid, the worse the firm does over the next three years, as far as stock performance and even accounting performance,” says one of the authors of the study, Michael Cooper of the University of Utah’s David Eccles School of Business.


The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says - Forbes


The More A Company Pays Its CEO, The Worse Its Shareholders Do




80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated.



Successful Americans didn't make their money themselves. They conducted business in an ordered society with roads and laws and a military that defends it from foreign invaders and they hired people. Nobody wants YOUR money, they want the share they contributed to it

So, what is stopping you from being a poor performing CEO and making millions that you can then donate to poor people?
Every CEO I listed donates/donated lots of money to the charity of their choice.

 

[alan1]

Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite



Andrew Mellon had a few distinctly progressive ideas. Of particular note, he suggested taxing "earned" income from wages and salaries more lightly that "unearned" income from investments. As he argued:


The fairness of taxing more lightly income from wages, salaries or from investments is beyond question. In the first case, the income is uncertain and limited in duration; sickness or death destroys it and old age diminishes it; in the other, the source of income continues; the income may be disposed of during a man's life and it descends to his heirs.

Surely we can afford to make a distinction between the people whose only capital is their mental and physical energy and the people whose income is derived from investments. Such a distinction would mean much to millions of American workers and would be an added inspiration to the man who must provide a competence during his few productive years to care for himself and his family when his earnings capacity is at an end.



Tax History Project -- The Republican Roots of New Deal Tax Policy

Obviously the smart answer is to invest.
Which is why I, as a middle class income earner, have been investing for over 35 years. Oh wait, 35 years ago I wasn't middle class, I was poor, but I still invested.

But that is a side note to the point of this thread.
None of the people I listed started at the top, they started at the bottom, but all of them ended up at the top.
And you want to compare the US to a third world country where it is virtually impossible to accomplish the same thing?

 

[alan1]

Reaganomics turned America from the greatest creditor nation to the greatest debtor nation over the last 30 years. Time to recognize Republican economic policy for the failure it is


What would be the ultimate purpose of a Political Party that:

1. Grew The Size Of Government.

2. Grew The Debt Tremendously.

3. Slashed Taxes that supports Government Services.

4. Fired Massive Numbers of Government "Service" Providers, and gutted Government Departments to "pay" for the debt they created.

5. Then Pro-Claimed "See, Government doesn't work and costs too much.", and it's the Liberal Communists fault."

I guess you'd have to ask the Democrats.
President Obama had a Democrat controlled Senate and House during his first two years in office. In the first year alone, he added more to America's debt than all eight years of President Reagan's presidency combined.

 

[jasonnfree]

Reaganomics turned America from the greatest creditor nation to the greatest debtor nation over the last 30 years. Time to recognize Republican economic policy for the failure it is


What would be the ultimate purpose of a Political Party that:

1. Grew The Size Of Government.

2. Grew The Debt Tremendously.

3. Slashed Taxes that supports Government Services.

4. Fired Massive Numbers of Government "Service" Providers, and gutted Government Departments to "pay" for the debt they created.

5. Then Pro-Claimed "See, Government doesn't work and costs too much.", and it's the Liberal Communists fault."

Reagan probably helped destroy the middle class more than any number of republicans combined. He perfected his craft of conning people as a salesman for GE on television. His first big speech as president was convincing millions that government was the problem.
Trouble is, he raided the treasury to jack up the debt of this country to enrich the people that put him in office. Before that, as governor of california, he helped kill affordable education, which is why so many students are in debt today. If young people who are now facing massive education debt, knew all this, they could get interested in politics and use the power of social media to drive these republicans back to the dustbins of history.

 

[The Rabbi]

Reaganomics turned America from the greatest creditor nation to the greatest debtor nation over the last 30 years. Time to recognize Republican economic policy for the failure it is


What would be the ultimate purpose of a Political Party that:

1. Grew The Size Of Government.

2. Grew The Debt Tremendously.

3. Slashed Taxes that supports Government Services.

4. Fired Massive Numbers of Government "Service" Providers, and gutted Government Departments to "pay" for the debt they created.

5. Then Pro-Claimed "See, Government doesn't work and costs too much.", and it's the Liberal Communists fault."

Reagan probably helped destroy the middle class more than any number of republicans combined. He perfected his craft of conning people as a salesman for GE on television. His first big speech as president was convincing millions that government was the problem.
Trouble is, he raided the treasury to jack up the debt of this country to enrich the people that put him in office. Before that, as governor of california, he helped kill affordable education, which is why so many students are in debt today. If young people who are now facing massive education debt, knew all this, they could get interested in politics and use the power of social media to drive these republicans back to the dustbins of history.

Obama's deficits are bigger than Reagan's entire budget. Under Reagan we experienced over 6% growth. Under Obama it's been half that at best, and negative right now.

 

[Kimura]

We all know that the average person is screwed when it comes to becoming one of those hugely wealthy CEO's of a company. The media and the liberals (redundancy alert) tell us so.
You and I and everybody else is screwed by a rigged system that prevents us from becoming wealthy and enjoying success.
If you don't believe me, just look at these examples of CEO's.

Jim Skinner. Former CEO of McDonalds. He never graduated college and started his career at McDonalds as a manager trainee.
Brian Dunn. Former CEO of Best Buy. He never attended college and started his career at Best Buy as a salesman.
Jack Welch. Son of a railroad conductor. He became the CEO of GE.
Bill Gates. College dropout and founder/CEO of Microsoft.
Steve Jobs. College dropout and founder/CEO of Apple. He was adopted by a middle class family.
Rodney McMullen. CEO of Kroger, the second largest retail company in America. He was born on a family farm and started at Kroger as a stock clerk.
Fred DeLuca. Founder and CEO of Subway. He borrowed $1000 to start the company that now has more resturaunts worldwide than any other resturaunt.
Doug McMillon. Doug started as a summer seasonal employee in a Walmart warehouse when he was a teenager. He is now the CEO of the largest company in the world, WalMart.

Oh wait, I meant we all have the opportunity.

Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO
Study: The Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO (Vocativ)
Daniel Edward Rosen looks at a study from the University of Utah, which shows that companies that pay CEOs more than $20 million a year have average annual losses over $1 billion.


The Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO | Vocativ

Roosevelt Take: Roosevelt Institute Fellow and Director of Research Susan Holmberg and Campus Network alumna Lydia Austin look at additional ways high CEO pay distorts the economy.


Fixing a Hole: How the Tax Code for Executive Pay Distorts Economic Incentives and Burdens Taxpayers

Fixing a Hole: How the Tax Code for Executive Pay Distorts Economic Incentives and Burdens Taxpayers | Roosevelt Institute




The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says

Across the board, the more CEOs get paid, the worse their companies do over the next three years, according to extensive new research. This is true whether they’re CEOs at the highest end of the pay spectrum or the lowest. “The more CEOs are paid, the worse the firm does over the next three years, as far as stock performance and even accounting performance,” says one of the authors of the study, Michael Cooper of the University of Utah’s David Eccles School of Business.


The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says - Forbes


The More A Company Pays Its CEO, The Worse Its Shareholders Do




80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated.



Successful Americans didn't make their money themselves. They conducted business in an ordered society with roads and laws and a military that defends it from foreign invaders and they hired people. Nobody wants YOUR money, they want the share they contributed to it

So, what is stopping you from being a poor performing CEO and making millions that you can then donate to poor people?
Every CEO I listed donates/donated lots of money to the charity of their choice.

This a perfect example of an institutional problem that is becoming a structural one. CEO compensation is inherently a fad, and it results in CEOs not so much as caring about their respective companies, but rather a situation where they try to keep up with each other. This will result in more pressure on an already failing system which is crumbling our institutions and middle class here in the US. This will ultimately be a disaster for democracy and and overall social stability.

 

[TheJedi]

We all know that the average person is screwed when it comes to becoming one of those hugely wealthy CEO's of a company. The media and the liberals (redundancy alert) tell us so.
You and I and everybody else is screwed by a rigged system that prevents us from becoming wealthy and enjoying success.
If you don't believe me, just look at these examples of CEO's.

Jim Skinner. Former CEO of McDonalds. He never graduated college and started his career at McDonalds as a manager trainee.
Brian Dunn. Former CEO of Best Buy. He never attended college and started his career at Best Buy as a salesman.
Jack Welch. Son of a railroad conductor. He became the CEO of GE.
Bill Gates. College dropout and founder/CEO of Microsoft.
Steve Jobs. College dropout and founder/CEO of Apple. He was adopted by a middle class family.
Rodney McMullen. CEO of Kroger, the second largest retail company in America. He was born on a family farm and started at Kroger as a stock clerk.
Fred DeLuca. Founder and CEO of Subway. He borrowed $1000 to start the company that now has more resturaunts worldwide than any other resturaunt.
Doug McMillon. Doug started as a summer seasonal employee in a Walmart warehouse when he was a teenager. He is now the CEO of the largest company in the world, WalMart.

Oh wait, I meant we all have the opportunity.

Those opportunities do not exist anymore. All of these stories begin pre-80s or earlier. This does not happen anymore. All those CEO positions are just handed to the next millionaire/billionaire. Small business has little chance these days because all the needs to derail them is a Walmart moving into town. If you have a great idea, you will be pressured to sell it off or face the wrath of wealthy men who will use their political and legal connections to force you out.

In my town, I just watched a 30-year business—a locally owned laundromat—get forced out of their space so a Quick Check can expand their store. They were not offered relocation money, they were not offered any compensation, they were just forced out by their landlord and sent packing. Now they lose 60k per year in income.

That is the reality of our future. There will be no such thing as small business, it will all be corporate-owned one day and we will be enslaved to MNCs and banks for all of our needs as they erode our rights by monopolizing policy in our corrupt Congress. This is what unregulated capitalism gives us.

 

[Kimura]

We all know that the average person is screwed when it comes to becoming one of those hugely wealthy CEO's of a company. The media and the liberals (redundancy alert) tell us so.
You and I and everybody else is screwed by a rigged system that prevents us from becoming wealthy and enjoying success.
If you don't believe me, just look at these examples of CEO's.

Jim Skinner. Former CEO of McDonalds. He never graduated college and started his career at McDonalds as a manager trainee.
Brian Dunn. Former CEO of Best Buy. He never attended college and started his career at Best Buy as a salesman.
Jack Welch. Son of a railroad conductor. He became the CEO of GE.
Bill Gates. College dropout and founder/CEO of Microsoft.
Steve Jobs. College dropout and founder/CEO of Apple. He was adopted by a middle class family.
Rodney McMullen. CEO of Kroger, the second largest retail company in America. He was born on a family farm and started at Kroger as a stock clerk.
Fred DeLuca. Founder and CEO of Subway. He borrowed $1000 to start the company that now has more resturaunts worldwide than any other resturaunt.
Doug McMillon. Doug started as a summer seasonal employee in a Walmart warehouse when he was a teenager. He is now the CEO of the largest company in the world, WalMart.

Oh wait, I meant we all have the opportunity.

Those opportunities do not exist anymore. All of these stories begin pre-80s or earlier. This does not happen anymore. All those CEO positions are just handed to the next millionaire/billionaire. Small business has little chance these days because all the needs to derail them is a Walmart moving into town. If you have a great idea, you will be pressured to sell it off or face the wrath of wealthy men who will use their political and legal connections to force you out.

In my town, I just watched a 30-year business—a locally owned laundromat—get forced out of their space so a Quick Check can expand their store. They were not offered relocation money, they were not offered any compensation, they were just forced out by their landlord and sent packing. Now they lose 60k per year in income.

That is the reality of our future. There will be no such thing as small business, it will all be corporate-owned one day and we will be enslaved to MNCs and banks for all of our needs as they erode our rights by monopolizing policy in our corrupt Congress. This is what unregulated capitalism gives us.

Also, the ratio between pay for CEOs and workers has increased 1000% since about 1950. This data is freely available. Your average Fortune 500 CEO makes 204 times more than regular workers. This ratio has increased from 20-to-1 in 1950, to 42-to-1 in 1980, and 120-to-1 in 2000.

This should demonstrate that marginal productivity theory is nonsense. I still can't wrap me head around the absurd idea supported by some people that these CEOs deserve their salaries because of their marginal contributions to production.

 

[Dad2three]

We all know that the average person is screwed when it comes to becoming one of those hugely wealthy CEO's of a company. The media and the liberals (redundancy alert) tell us so.
You and I and everybody else is screwed by a rigged system that prevents us from becoming wealthy and enjoying success.
If you don't believe me, just look at these examples of CEO's.

Jim Skinner. Former CEO of McDonalds. He never graduated college and started his career at McDonalds as a manager trainee.
Brian Dunn. Former CEO of Best Buy. He never attended college and started his career at Best Buy as a salesman.
Jack Welch. Son of a railroad conductor. He became the CEO of GE.
Bill Gates. College dropout and founder/CEO of Microsoft.
Steve Jobs. College dropout and founder/CEO of Apple. He was adopted by a middle class family.
Rodney McMullen. CEO of Kroger, the second largest retail company in America. He was born on a family farm and started at Kroger as a stock clerk.
Fred DeLuca. Founder and CEO of Subway. He borrowed $1000 to start the company that now has more resturaunts worldwide than any other resturaunt.
Doug McMillon. Doug started as a summer seasonal employee in a Walmart warehouse when he was a teenager. He is now the CEO of the largest company in the world, WalMart.

Oh wait, I meant we all have the opportunity.

Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO
Study: The Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO (Vocativ)
Daniel Edward Rosen looks at a study from the University of Utah, which shows that companies that pay CEOs more than $20 million a year have average annual losses over $1 billion.


The Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO | Vocativ

Roosevelt Take: Roosevelt Institute Fellow and Director of Research Susan Holmberg and Campus Network alumna Lydia Austin look at additional ways high CEO pay distorts the economy.


Fixing a Hole: How the Tax Code for Executive Pay Distorts Economic Incentives and Burdens Taxpayers

Fixing a Hole: How the Tax Code for Executive Pay Distorts Economic Incentives and Burdens Taxpayers | Roosevelt Institute




The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says

Across the board, the more CEOs get paid, the worse their companies do over the next three years, according to extensive new research. This is true whether they’re CEOs at the highest end of the pay spectrum or the lowest. “The more CEOs are paid, the worse the firm does over the next three years, as far as stock performance and even accounting performance,” says one of the authors of the study, Michael Cooper of the University of Utah’s David Eccles School of Business.


The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says - Forbes


The More A Company Pays Its CEO, The Worse Its Shareholders Do




80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated.



Successful Americans didn't make their money themselves. They conducted business in an ordered society with roads and laws and a military that defends it from foreign invaders and they hired people. Nobody wants YOUR money, they want the share they contributed to it

So, what is stopping you from being a poor performing CEO and making millions that you can then donate to poor people?
Every CEO I listed donates/donated lots of money to the charity of their choice.

So you don't actually like TRUE capitalism but prefer crony capitalism ? Got it



Capitalism DEMANDS FAIR EXCHANGE OF CAPITAL FOR PRODUCT OR SERVICE of course conservatives hate that part

 

[Dad2three]

Reaganomics turned America from the greatest creditor nation to the greatest debtor nation over the last 30 years. Time to recognize Republican economic policy for the failure it is


What would be the ultimate purpose of a Political Party that:

1. Grew The Size Of Government.

2. Grew The Debt Tremendously.

3. Slashed Taxes that supports Government Services.

4. Fired Massive Numbers of Government "Service" Providers, and gutted Government Departments to "pay" for the debt they created.

5. Then Pro-Claimed "See, Government doesn't work and costs too much.", and it's the Liberal Communists fault."

Reagan probably helped destroy the middle class more than any number of republicans combined. He perfected his craft of conning people as a salesman for GE on television. His first big speech as president was convincing millions that government was the problem.
Trouble is, he raided the treasury to jack up the debt of this country to enrich the people that put him in office. Before that, as governor of california, he helped kill affordable education, which is why so many students are in debt today. If young people who are now facing massive education debt, knew all this, they could get interested in politics and use the power of social media to drive these republicans back to the dustbins of history.

Obama's deficits are bigger than Reagan's entire budget. Under Reagan we experienced over 6% growth. Under Obama it's been half that at best, and negative right now.

You meant to say Reagan blew up the debt by tripling it and both Bush's doubled it?


Charts: What if Obama spent like Reagan?

You can see the numbers for yourself if you head to the Bureau of Economic Analysis's GDP data and scroll through column 21 of table 1.1.2. It's simply a fact that real government spending fell in three of President Obama's first four years.



How does government spending and investment during Obama's first term compare to Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush's first terms? The answer is poorly. Whereas total government spending dropped in 10 out of the 16 quarters that comprised Obama's first term, it rose in 13 out of Reagan's first 16 quarters, and 13 out of Bush's first 16 quarters.

Or, to put it differently, over Obama's first term, falling government spending and investment snipped, on average, .11 percentage points of GDP off of (annualized) quarterly growth. During Reagan's first term, it added .68 percentage points, and during Bush's first term, it added .52 percentage points.

The point isn't that Reagan and Bush were big spenders while Obama favors austerity.


Rather, these graphs simply establish a basic fact about Obama's term: While deficits have indeed been high, government spending and investment has been falling since 2010




WHAT IF OBAMA HAD REAGAN'S GOV'T SPENDING

Charts: What if Obama spent like Reagan? - The Washington Post

 

[Dad2three]

Reaganomics turned America from the greatest creditor nation to the greatest debtor nation over the last 30 years. Time to recognize Republican economic policy for the failure it is


What would be the ultimate purpose of a Political Party that:

1. Grew The Size Of Government.

2. Grew The Debt Tremendously.

3. Slashed Taxes that supports Government Services.

4. Fired Massive Numbers of Government "Service" Providers, and gutted Government Departments to "pay" for the debt they created.

5. Then Pro-Claimed "See, Government doesn't work and costs too much.", and it's the Liberal Communists fault."

I guess you'd have to ask the Democrats.
President Obama had a Democrat controlled Senate and House during his first two years in office. In the first year alone, he added more to America's debt than all eight years of President Reagan's presidency combined.

Weird, Reagan tripled the debt, Bush's last F/Y budget started Oct 1, 2008

Jan 7, 2009 - The U.S. budget deficit in 2009 is projected to spike to a record $1.2 trillion, or 8.3% of gross domestic product, the Congressional Budget Office

CBO projects record $1.2 trillion deficit - Jan. 7, 2009

 

[Dad2three]

Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite



Andrew Mellon had a few distinctly progressive ideas. Of particular note, he suggested taxing "earned" income from wages and salaries more lightly that "unearned" income from investments. As he argued:


The fairness of taxing more lightly income from wages, salaries or from investments is beyond question. In the first case, the income is uncertain and limited in duration; sickness or death destroys it and old age diminishes it; in the other, the source of income continues; the income may be disposed of during a man's life and it descends to his heirs.

Surely we can afford to make a distinction between the people whose only capital is their mental and physical energy and the people whose income is derived from investments. Such a distinction would mean much to millions of American workers and would be an added inspiration to the man who must provide a competence during his few productive years to care for himself and his family when his earnings capacity is at an end.



Tax History Project -- The Republican Roots of New Deal Tax Policy

Obviously the smart answer is to invest.
Which is why I, as a middle class income earner, have been investing for over 35 years. Oh wait, 35 years ago I wasn't middle class, I was poor, but I still invested.

But that is a side note to the point of this thread.
None of the people I listed started at the top, they started at the bottom, but all of them ended up at the top.
And you want to compare the US to a third world country where it is virtually impossible to accomplish the same thing?

Right, 'invest' is the answer *shaking head*

Walton families alone have more wealth than the bottom 40% of US


Why Thomas Jefferson Favored Profit Sharing
By David Cay Johnston

The founders, despite decades of rancorous disagreements about almost every other aspect of their grand experiment, agreed that America would survive and thrive only if there was widespread ownership of land and businesses.

George Washington, nine months before his inauguration as the first president, predicted that America "will be the most favorable country of any kind in the world for persons of industry and frugality, possessed of moderate capital, to inhabit." And, he continued, "it will not be less advantageous to the happiness of the lowest class of people, because of the equal distribution of property."

The second president, John Adams, feared "monopolies of land" would destroy the nation and that a business aristocracy born of inequality would manipulate voters, creating "a system of subordination to all... The capricious will of one or a very few" dominating the rest. Unless constrained, Adams wrote, "the rich and the proud" would wield economic and political power that "will destroy all the equality and liberty, with the consent and acclamations of the people themselves."

James Madison, the Constitution's main author, described inequality as an evil, saying government should prevent "an immoderate, and especially unmerited, accumulation of riches." He favored "the silent operation of laws which, without violating the rights of property, reduce extreme wealth towards a state of mediocrity, and raise extreme indigents towards a state of comfort."

Alexander Hamilton, who championed manufacturing and banking as the first Treasury secretary, also argued for widespread ownership of assets, warning in 1782 that, "whenever a discretionary power is lodged in any set of men over the property of their neighbors, they will abuse it."

Late in life, Adams, pessimistic about whether the republic would endure, wrote that the goal of the democratic government was not to help the wealthy and powerful but to achieve "the greatest happiness for the greatest number."



http://www.newsweek.com/2014/02/07/why-thomas-jefferson-favored-profit-sharing-245454.html



Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

 

[Dad2three]

We all know that the average person is screwed when it comes to becoming one of those hugely wealthy CEO's of a company. The media and the liberals (redundancy alert) tell us so.
You and I and everybody else is screwed by a rigged system that prevents us from becoming wealthy and enjoying success.
If you don't believe me, just look at these examples of CEO's.

Jim Skinner. Former CEO of McDonalds. He never graduated college and started his career at McDonalds as a manager trainee.
Brian Dunn. Former CEO of Best Buy. He never attended college and started his career at Best Buy as a salesman.
Jack Welch. Son of a railroad conductor. He became the CEO of GE.
Bill Gates. College dropout and founder/CEO of Microsoft.
Steve Jobs. College dropout and founder/CEO of Apple. He was adopted by a middle class family.
Rodney McMullen. CEO of Kroger, the second largest retail company in America. He was born on a family farm and started at Kroger as a stock clerk.
Fred DeLuca. Founder and CEO of Subway. He borrowed $1000 to start the company that now has more resturaunts worldwide than any other resturaunt.
Doug McMillon. Doug started as a summer seasonal employee in a Walmart warehouse when he was a teenager. He is now the CEO of the largest company in the world, WalMart.

Oh wait, I meant we all have the opportunity.

Those opportunities do not exist anymore. All of these stories begin pre-80s or earlier. This does not happen anymore. All those CEO positions are just handed to the next millionaire/billionaire. Small business has little chance these days because all the needs to derail them is a Walmart moving into town. If you have a great idea, you will be pressured to sell it off or face the wrath of wealthy men who will use their political and legal connections to force you out.

In my town, I just watched a 30-year business—a locally owned laundromat—get forced out of their space so a Quick Check can expand their store. They were not offered relocation money, they were not offered any compensation, they were just forced out by their landlord and sent packing. Now they lose 60k per year in income.

That is the reality of our future. There will be no such thing as small business, it will all be corporate-owned one day and we will be enslaved to MNCs and banks for all of our needs as they erode our rights by monopolizing policy in our corrupt Congress. This is what unregulated capitalism gives us.

Long but good read


Free markets killed capitalism: Ayn Rand, Ronald Reagan, Wal-Mart, Amazon and the 1 percent’s sick triumph over us all


Monopoly is back: Barry Lynn on the concentration of American economic power -- and how we can restore fairness

Monopoly: It sounds like a very old-fashioned problem. It sounds like an economic issue from the 19th century. Is it still a problem today?

Yes, absolutely, a huge problem. The American economy is more concentrated today than it’s been in more than a century, since the days of the plutocrats. Pretty much every sector of the economy is dominated by a few Goliaths, sometimes a single dominant corporation

Free markets killed capitalism: Ayn Rand, Ronald Reagan, Wal-Mart, Amazon and the 1 percent?s sick triumph over us all - Salon.com

 

[Rshermr]

We all know that the average person is screwed when it comes to becoming one of those hugely wealthy CEO's of a company. The media and the liberals (redundancy alert) tell us so.
You and I and everybody else is screwed by a rigged system that prevents us from becoming wealthy and enjoying success.
If you don't believe me, just look at these examples of CEO's.

Jim Skinner. Former CEO of McDonalds. He never graduated college and started his career at McDonalds as a manager trainee.
Brian Dunn. Former CEO of Best Buy. He never attended college and started his career at Best Buy as a salesman.
Jack Welch. Son of a railroad conductor. He became the CEO of GE.
Bill Gates. College dropout and founder/CEO of Microsoft.
Steve Jobs. College dropout and founder/CEO of Apple. He was adopted by a middle class family.
Rodney McMullen. CEO of Kroger, the second largest retail company in America. He was born on a family farm and started at Kroger as a stock clerk.
Fred DeLuca. Founder and CEO of Subway. He borrowed $1000 to start the company that now has more resturaunts worldwide than any other resturaunt.
Doug McMillon. Doug started as a summer seasonal employee in a Walmart warehouse when he was a teenager. He is now the CEO of the largest company in the world, WalMart.

Oh wait, I meant we all have the opportunity.

Those opportunities do not exist anymore. All of these stories begin pre-80s or earlier. This does not happen anymore. All those CEO positions are just handed to the next millionaire/billionaire. Small business has little chance these days because all the needs to derail them is a Walmart moving into town. If you have a great idea, you will be pressured to sell it off or face the wrath of wealthy men who will use their political and legal connections to force you out.

In my town, I just watched a 30-year business—a locally owned laundromat—get forced out of their space so a Quick Check can expand their store. They were not offered relocation money, they were not offered any compensation, they were just forced out by their landlord and sent packing. Now they lose 60k per year in income.

That is the reality of our future. There will be no such thing as small business, it will all be corporate-owned one day and we will be enslaved to MNCs and banks for all of our needs as they erode our rights by monopolizing policy in our corrupt Congress. This is what unregulated capitalism gives us.

Also, the ratio between pay for CEOs and workers has increased 1000% since about 1950. This data is freely available. Your average Fortune 500 CEO makes 204 times more than regular workers. This ratio has increased from 20-to-1 in 1950, to 42-to-1 in 1980, and 120-to-1 in 2000.

This should demonstrate that marginal productivity theory is nonsense. I still can't wrap me head around the absurd idea supported by some people that these CEOs deserve their salaries because of their marginal contributions to production.

To the best of my knowledge, ceo's produce NOTHING. They direct, they plan, they hire and fire. But production folks produce. Therefor, the marginal productivity of a ceo is zero. As in 0. Nada.
Now, their functions are important. But the pay of ceo to average worker in the US is multiples of any other country. So, our ceo's are worth more than those of other countries ceo's????
Makes no sense.
But the moneyed have spent hundreds of millions convincing the weak minded that our ceo's are worth their money. And, oddly, most of those weak minded ended up posting on this board.

 

[Rshermr]

We all know that the average person is screwed when it comes to becoming one of those hugely wealthy CEO's of a company. The media and the liberals (redundancy alert) tell us so.
You and I and everybody else is screwed by a rigged system that prevents us from becoming wealthy and enjoying success.
If you don't believe me, just look at these examples of CEO's.

Jim Skinner. Former CEO of McDonalds. He never graduated college and started his career at McDonalds as a manager trainee.
Brian Dunn. Former CEO of Best Buy. He never attended college and started his career at Best Buy as a salesman.
Jack Welch. Son of a railroad conductor. He became the CEO of GE.
Bill Gates. College dropout and founder/CEO of Microsoft.
Steve Jobs. College dropout and founder/CEO of Apple. He was adopted by a middle class family.
Rodney McMullen. CEO of Kroger, the second largest retail company in America. He was born on a family farm and started at Kroger as a stock clerk.
Fred DeLuca. Founder and CEO of Subway. He borrowed $1000 to start the company that now has more resturaunts worldwide than any other resturaunt.
Doug McMillon. Doug started as a summer seasonal employee in a Walmart warehouse when he was a teenager. He is now the CEO of the largest company in the world, WalMart.

Oh wait, I meant we all have the opportunity.

Those opportunities do not exist anymore. All of these stories begin pre-80s or earlier. This does not happen anymore. All those CEO positions are just handed to the next millionaire/billionaire. Small business has little chance these days because all the needs to derail them is a Walmart moving into town. If you have a great idea, you will be pressured to sell it off or face the wrath of wealthy men who will use their political and legal connections to force you out.

In my town, I just watched a 30-year business—a locally owned laundromat—get forced out of their space so a Quick Check can expand their store. They were not offered relocation money, they were not offered any compensation, they were just forced out by their landlord and sent packing. Now they lose 60k per year in income.

That is the reality of our future. There will be no such thing as small business, it will all be corporate-owned one day and we will be enslaved to MNCs and banks for all of our needs as they erode our rights by monopolizing policy in our corrupt Congress. This is what unregulated capitalism gives us.

Long but good read


Free markets killed capitalism: Ayn Rand, Ronald Reagan, Wal-Mart, Amazon and the 1 percent’s sick triumph over us all


Monopoly is back: Barry Lynn on the concentration of American economic power -- and how we can restore fairness

Monopoly: It sounds like a very old-fashioned problem. It sounds like an economic issue from the 19th century. Is it still a problem today?

Yes, absolutely, a huge problem. The American economy is more concentrated today than it’s been in more than a century, since the days of the plutocrats. Pretty much every sector of the economy is dominated by a few Goliaths, sometimes a single dominant corporation

Free markets killed capitalism: Ayn Rand, Ronald Reagan, Wal-Mart, Amazon and the 1 percent?s sick triumph over us all - Salon.com

That is the TRUTH. The weak minded have been "educated" to believe that there is no such thing as monopoly, or monopoly power. Poor sad clowns. The weak minded (also known as neocons, cons, or congenital idiots) buy into the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on propaganda for them.

In the interim, studies all over the place have started to find that ceo's may be mostly sociopaths. Which fits my understanding of those I have worked with over the years.
Are CEOs and Entrepreneurs psychopaths? Multiple studies say ?Yes?

 

[initforme]

The free market system has always worked best for those who are already wealthy. Those at the bottom are destined to stay there or perhaps if they are willing to work their tails off making someone else alot of money they may make it to the middle class. This has always been the case. Yet there are still those that exist that believe America is the incredible place of huge opportunity "if you are willing to work hard" of course. But that simply isn't reality... it never has been. Is it a great place to live? Yes it is. But one should never strive to become wealthy because the odds are indeed heavily stacked against you. However, a college education for a career that is in high demand is one way to get a step ahead of those without a college degree. There are those who scoff at college as well saying you don't need a college education. Those are the ones who believe we need a work force of low educated people.... so we don't have to pay them much.