How much is enough?

This is an example of the American Marxist ideals.

No private property, which is what is stated when people say all money is created from the government.
Class warfare, we must hate the rich, the 1%, and blame them for our problems.
Government debt is only good, it can not be bad.

American Marxist Democrat is gooood, Republican is baaaad.

Sorry for understanding how money is created. If you want to remain blissfully ignorant, that's your problem.

Wealth is created by work, but money is created by government and the banks. There is a difference.

The wealthiest 1% have not earned and do not deserve their money or the wealth it represents. Working people create wealth.

You can call me a Marxist if you like, but I'll feel quite free to call you an idiot.
 
We are a Republic, we must undermine the efforts to change us into a Democracy.

We're a Democratic Republic. The founding fathers believed in DEMOCRACY and partially modeled us after the Athenians.

Unfortunately, it's not possible for everyone to vote on every bill, so we had to use a Republican form of Democracy.
 
This may be the stupidest post of the day, but it is still morning on the Pacific coast.
You are really showing just how much of a socialist you are. WE DON"T HAVE THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Social Security is going bankrupt, Medicare is upside down and rife with fraud.
And YOU want to turn over 3.5 trillion (3,500,000,000,000.00) to the government?
The government that wants the IRS to look into your bank account and see why YOU spent 600.00?
You really are stupid, or really don't care about government waste, Dick-H
Relax Dems tell us it will cost $0 you know, because the 'rich' will pay for it. I swear Dems have spent the 'rich' wealth 10 times over by now.
 
Relax Dems tell us it will cost $0 you know, because the 'rich' will pay for it. I swear Dems have spent the 'rich' wealth 10 times over by now.
It would be better if the dems said new spending was paid for, and then said how, so we could consider whether any negative effect of the tax outweighed the benefit.
 
Ready. Aim. Shoot yourself in the foot.

Lets see, Manchin has been saying this for how long?
 
1. If Manchin made this proposal I hope that they take it seriously and negotiate. Apparently this just happened this morning.
2. Fixing Medicare & SS is a great idea, but if Manchin truly support seniors, he'll support the part of the social infrastructure bill that allows medicare to negotiate bulk drug prices.
3. Yes, the progs are being stubborn, but there's no reason to believe that any part of the social infrastructure bill will be passed if they let the bipartisan bill pass. They have good reason not to trust the moderates or the GOP.
4. If no social infrastructure bill is passed, Manchin will at best be totally marginalized after the 2022 election. Given the number of toss up seats in the Senate, the dems are likely to pickup at least 2 seats - especially if there's no social infrastructure bill passed. He may as well join the GOP.
5. Sinema is showboating to make a national name for herself. She'll succeed in that, but she won't be happy with the type of national name she gets. She may as well move to Afghanistan.
1. Yep, we'll see how this all plays out, if its a short story, or a long boring novel...stay tuned...

2. Sinema gets her $$$$ from big pharma, that part of SS is dead, with or without Manchin.

3. A $3T set of infrastructure bills would be a big win for Biden, the progs are the ones killing them both. Thank you progs!!

4. If no infrastructure bill is passed Xiden is the one totally marginalized. WV will nominate Manchin for sainthood and governor. In the mid-terms the dems will lose seats, not gain. Warnock will lose to Hershel. Kelly will lose in AZ. The dems have a shot in PA for Toomey's seat, but they don't have any "slam-dunk" candidates.

5. Sinema as I showed you, has a fine approval rating in AZ. She's a shoo-in unless the dems primary her, and then that's another seat the GOP could pickup.
 
It would be better if the dems said new spending was paid for, and then said how, so we could consider whether any negative effect of the tax outweighed the benefit.
I'm pretty sure they will ban you from Politics if you keep posting rational thoughts. Quality post well done! :eusa_clap:
 
It would be better if the dems said new spending was paid for, and then said how, so we could consider whether any negative effect of the tax outweighed the benefit.
I think they believe in the Fat, Dumb, and Happy approach. They don't want to be upfront.
I remember the "You can keep your Doctor", "You can keep your insurance." That didn't go well
 
It would be better if the dems said new spending was paid for, and then said how, so we could consider whether any negative effect of the tax outweighed the benefit.

I gotta be honest, the dems could say the spending was paid for but I would not believe them, any more than I would disbelieve any tax cut pays for itself. In the first place, I believe that the cost of the $3.5 trillion bill probably exceeds $5 trillion and that's only if the programs and policies end after 10 years or whatever the end date is. Once these spending programs are in place they do not die; no politician is going to take back something that a lot of people get, whether they actually need it or not.

And then there's the "paid for" part, which I do not believe either. The dems always overestimate the revenue from whatever tax increase is being promoted, they NEVER really get that much. We are always being lied to on taxes, cuts or hikes. And telling me that the $3.5 trillion Bill will add zero dollars to the debt is a God Damn lie.
 
I gotta be honest, the dems could say the spending was paid for but I would not believe them, any more than I would disbelieve any tax cut pays for itself. In the first place, I believe that the cost of the $3.5 trillion bill probably exceeds $5 trillion and that's only if the programs and policies end after 10 years or whatever the end date is. Once these spending programs are in place they do not die; no politician is going to take back something that a lot of people get, whether they actually need it or not.

And then there's the "paid for" part, which I do not believe either. The dems always overestimate the revenue from whatever tax increase is being promoted, they NEVER really get that much. We are always being lied to on taxes, cuts or hikes. And telling me that the $3.5 trillion Bill will add zero dollars to the debt is a God Damn lie.
Agreed, and they are in denial on the inflationary aspect of this amount of money. Interests rates are on the rise right now,
I know the projection of the increase is not calculated.
 
Social security and Medicare should be strengthened. They are two of the greatest things this nation has ever developed.....by a wide margin. Without them we cannot survive.
 
SEPTEMBER 29, 2021
MANCHIN STATEMENT ON INFRASTRUCTURE AND RECONCILIATION NEGOTIATIONS
Washington, DC – Today, U.S. Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) released the following statement about infrastructure and reconciliation negotiations.


“Every Member of Congress has a solemn duty to vote for what they believe is best for the country and the American people, not their party. Respectfully, as I have said for months, I can’t support $3.5 trillion more in spending when we have already spent $5.4 trillion since last March. At some point, all of us, regardless of party must ask the simple question – how much is enough?

What I have made clear to the President and Democratic leaders is that spending trillions more on new and expanded government programs, when we can’t even pay for the essential social programs, like Social Security and Medicare, is the definition of fiscal insanity. Suggesting that spending trillions more will not have an impact on inflation ignores the everyday reality that America’s families continue pay an unavoidable inflation tax. Proposing a historic expansion of social programs while ignoring the fact we are not in a recession and that millions of jobs remain open will only feed a dysfunction that could weaken our economic recovery. This is the shared reality we all now face, and it is this reality that must shape the future decisions that we, as elected leaders, must make.

Since the beginning of this reconciliation debate, I have been consistent in my belief that any expansion of social programs must be targeted to those in need, not expanded beyond what is fiscally possible. Our tax code should be reformed to fix the flaws of the 2017 tax bill and ensure everyone pays their fair share but it should not weaken our global competitiveness or the ability of millions of small businesses to compete with the Amazons of the world. Overall, the amount we spend now must be balanced with what we need and can afford – not designed to reengineer the social and economic fabric of this nation or vengefully tax for the sake of wishful spending.

.
.
Manchin Statement On Infrastructure And Reconciliation Negotiations
It aint Ron Paul, but under the circumstances, it will do.
 
We're a Democratic Republic. The founding fathers believed in DEMOCRACY and partially modeled us after the Athenians.

Unfortunately, it's not possible for everyone to vote on every bill, so we had to use a Republican form of Democracy.
we are not a democracy, we are a republic, as the constitution states, and no manner of twisting or lying will you be able to prove otherwise.

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
 
We're a Democratic Republic. The founding fathers believed in DEMOCRACY and partially modeled us after the Athenians.

Unfortunately, it's not possible for everyone to vote on every bill, so we had to use a Republican form of Democracy.

take notice at the bottom of the page, I searched the constitution for democracy, it is not found
Screenshot from 2021-09-30 19-30-46.png
 
Sorry for understanding how money is created. If you want to remain blissfully ignorant, that's your problem.

Wealth is created by work, but money is created by government and the banks. There is a difference.

The wealthiest 1% have not earned and do not deserve their money or the wealth it represents. Working people create wealth.

You can call me a Marxist if you like, but I'll feel quite free to call you an idiot.
Government creates debt, sure they print money, but money is labor, my work, my private property.

It does not matter if you believe or you realize, but if you believe as you do, that the government creates money and are the only source of wealth, you believe in Marxism.

You made the claim that the rich do not deserve their money? That it came from the government? Yet, did the Government create the Windows operating system? No! How did Bill Gates get rich? He worked hard and created something someone wanted. The government did not give him money. Does Bill Gates deserve the rewards of his labor or does the government deserve the rewards of his labor. If the government is the sole owner of money, the creator, then Bill Gates only works for the common government, or for communism, or marxism. No private property if what Bill Gates created is actually considered owned by the government, then distributed.

Did John D. Rockefeller earn his money? Did Rockefeller work and create, and thus owned his private property and then traded that property for other's property? Of course he did. And do his children not deserve what he created, more than you?

Yes, if you believe like a marxist, and post marxist doctrine, it does not matter if you are too under-educated to understand that your idea, is marxism.
 
1. Yep, we'll see how this all plays out, if its a short story, or a long boring novel...stay tuned...

2. Sinema gets her $$$$ from big pharma, that part of SS is dead, with or without Manchin.

3. A $3T set of infrastructure bills would be a big win for Biden, the progs are the ones killing them both. Thank you progs!!

4. If no infrastructure bill is passed Xiden is the one totally marginalized. WV will nominate Manchin for sainthood and governor. In the mid-terms the dems will lose seats, not gain. Warnock will lose to Hershel. Kelly will lose in AZ. The dems have a shot in PA for Toomey's seat, but they don't have any "slam-dunk" candidates.

5. Sinema as I showed you, has a fine approval rating in AZ. She's a shoo-in unless the dems primary her, and then that's another seat the GOP could pickup.

I doubt that things are as rosey for the GOP in the upcoming 2022 elections as you may think.

The American people voted Trump out of office in a ROBUST way. 70% of the American people can't stand Trump.

In 2020, the American people did not associate the rest of the GOP with Trump, so they voted GOP on all the down ballot elections.

However, after Jan. 6 and the continued support for Trump by the entire GOP, expect that the American people are going to vote the GOP out BIG TIME.

Jan. 6 revolted most Americans, the voter suppression laws being past by the GOP revolts most Americans, the continued blocking of everything revolts most Americans, the attack on abortion rights revolts most Americans.

If the Dems play their cards right, everything the GOP is doing will be held against them in the 2020 elections.
 
I doubt that things are as rosey for the GOP in the upcoming 2022 elections as you may think.

The American people voted Trump out of office in a ROBUST way. 70% of the American people can't stand Trump.

In 2020, the American people did not associate the rest of the GOP with Trump, so they voted GOP on all the down ballot elections.

However, after Jan. 6 and the continued support for Trump by the entire GOP, expect that the American people are going to vote the GOP out BIG TIME.

Jan. 6 revolted most Americans, the voter suppression laws being past by the GOP revolts most Americans, the continued blocking of everything revolts most Americans, the attack on abortion rights revolts most Americans.

If the Dems play their cards right, everything the GOP is doing will be held against them in the 2020 elections.
1. Mid-terms have a history of favoring the out party. No reason for that trend to change, especially after seeing the disasters and catastrophes the democrats made.

2. Trump lost by 43,000 votes in WI, GA & AZ. The GOP didn't lose one House seat, and could have kept the senate if the morons didn't put Collins up against Loeffler in the GA senate race. So stop with the bullshit that the US is going socialist.

3. So you are hoping that J6 will keep voters from voting Republican? Good luck with that after the AFG catastrophe, the border disaster, and the big list of unpopular democrat policies.

4. 2022 can't come soon enough, and one of us will be very disappointed in the election results.
 
What Manchin forgot to mention is that in contrast to his opening statement:

"Every Member of Congress has a solemn duty to vote for what they believe is best for the country and the American people, not their party"

The GOP continues to refuse to vote for "what is best for the country and the American people". They are 100% voting in line with their party - a party that is undermining democracy.

If the GOP would act as individuals, rather than partisan weenies, then Manchin's argument would be valid. If the GOP would act as individuals, the 'Build Back Better' act would not have to be passed through reconciliation. It would have some chance of passing thru normal procedures - as would the Voting Rights Act.

Manchin has to realize that the behavior of the GOP has been atrocious, and to some degree he should be willing to compensate for this horrible behavior by siding with his fellow Democrats. He needs to show the GOP that their behavior will not pay off. He needs to punish the GOP.

The behavior of the GOP is the greatest threat to this country - far greater than any damage the 'Build Back Better Act' could possibly cause (not to mention that the build back better act would have far more benefits for America).

Manchin should send a clear message to the GOP - if you try to overthrow Democracy, if you refuse to execute the duties of your office - there WILL BE A PRICE TO PAY!

WINNER !!!
Congratulations!

IdiotAward.jpg
 

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