How many of you are keeping up with the Yemen situation?

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Where does it stop? Do we simply give in every time an angry nation/people/group attack our innocent civilians? What kind of precedent will this set? You say we should "let people live their lives". Were we NOT allowing the recently failed Nigerian bomber his liberty? Sounds to me as though he had too much liberty and now our President and Homeland Security director are scrambling to figure out why.

Only someone who "blames America" could possibly twist America's foreign policy to effectively blame it for a man being deprived of peace when that same policy let the man freely fly into the country in the first place to experience our constitutionally protected freedoms.

Your arguments constantly defeat themselves. I'm new here but I've already grown tired of talking down to your level. Either raise your game or I'll move on.

Weakness on the world stage breeds aggression from those who seek to do us damage. Appeasement DOES NOT work.

You're perfectly free not to "talk down to my level" if you feel it's beneath you.

However, had we not bombed Yemen, killing innocent civilians, the would-be Christmas bomber would not have attempted to kill innocent American civilians. These are his own words.

Also, it's not "blaming America" to criticize government policies, especially ones that do not make us any safer. As I said before, the "blame America" nonsense is the argument of those without an argument.

You are asserting that American foreign policy is to blame for attempted terrorist attacks. You've said it in your posts. I'm stating you blame America for the deaths of our own citizens by inflaming radical Muslims. You repeatedly berate me for stating that you blame America and then you simply go and blame America some more.

You've put ZERO blame on the radical Muslims carrying out these attacks and have instead placed it square on the shoulders of American policy makers. You've alluded to no cultural or societal ills from within these Islamo-Fascists own backgrounds as a cause of blame and continuously blame your own countrymen for their deaths.

The Nigerian failed-bombers own father has opined directly to American government officials as to his sons radical beliefs. But we as Americans are to blame? Give me a break. There will NEVER be an end to to Muslims comprehending their faith in a fundamental way. Thus there will NEVER be an end to their radical beliefs conflicting with our liberal western beliefs. These differences are what mainly lead them to attack us.

I'll spell it out American ideals====foreign policy formulation====More liberty for populations under oppressive Muslim Theocracies/Muslims in general=====greater national security for America====Hatred from Islamic Fundamentalists who believe in these oppressive behaviors====Attacks against Americans

When we stop seeking liberty for all in an effort to appease those who would withhold it we stop holding the idea of liberty as sacred and instead it becomes "relative". Liberty is not relative.

""All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

How can I comprehend your opinions any differently judging by your posts then to believe you blame America for attacks on our people by Islamo-Fascists?

You're trying to equate my blaming government policies for the blowback that they cause as blaming the American people, which is utter nonsense. You're trying to say that by pointing out the flaws of government policies that I am not patriotic or anti-American. The entire "blame America" idea rests on the assumption that one cannot question their government, which is directly opposed to the ideals that this nation was founded on. If our government is making a mistake then it is the duty of the citizens to point out that mistake.

 

[alan1]

Looks bad.
Obama got permission from the Yemenese govt to use drones and cruise missles on terrorist locations.
Their oil is running our so they are going broke.
3 major factions outside of the govt fighting for control and or independence.

the latest aircraft bombing attempt appears to be the direct result of the US attacing a terrorist base in Yemen.

We have special forces in Yemen.

93.6% of Americans know that if you dip a sleeping persons hand in warm water, they will urinate.
12.5% of Americans know whether or not our country supports Yemen.

It's official, urine wins over Yemen.

 

[Liberty4All]

You're perfectly free not to "talk down to my level" if you feel it's beneath you.

However, had we not bombed Yemen, killing innocent civilians, the would-be Christmas bomber would not have attempted to kill innocent American civilians. These are his own words.

Also, it's not "blaming America" to criticize government policies, especially ones that do not make us any safer. As I said before, the "blame America" nonsense is the argument of those without an argument.

You are asserting that American foreign policy is to blame for attempted terrorist attacks. You've said it in your posts. I'm stating you blame America for the deaths of our own citizens by inflaming radical Muslims. You repeatedly berate me for stating that you blame America and then you simply go and blame America some more.

You've put ZERO blame on the radical Muslims carrying out these attacks and have instead placed it square on the shoulders of American policy makers. You've alluded to no cultural or societal ills from within these Islamo-Fascists own backgrounds as a cause of blame and continuously blame your own countrymen for their deaths.

The Nigerian failed-bombers own father has opined directly to American government officials as to his sons radical beliefs. But we as Americans are to blame? Give me a break. There will NEVER be an end to to Muslims comprehending their faith in a fundamental way. Thus there will NEVER be an end to their radical beliefs conflicting with our liberal western beliefs. These differences are what mainly lead them to attack us.

I'll spell it out American ideals====foreign policy formulation====More liberty for populations under oppressive Muslim Theocracies/Muslims in general=====greater national security for America====Hatred from Islamic Fundamentalists who believe in these oppressive behaviors====Attacks against Americans

When we stop seeking liberty for all in an effort to appease those who would withhold it we stop holding the idea of liberty as sacred and instead it becomes "relative". Liberty is not relative.

""All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

How can I comprehend your opinions any differently judging by your posts then to believe you blame America for attacks on our people by Islamo-Fascists?

You're trying to equate my blaming government policies for the blowback that they cause as blaming the American people, which is utter nonsense. You're trying to say that by pointing out the flaws of government policies that I am not patriotic or anti-American. The entire "blame America" idea rests on the assumption that one cannot question their government, which is directly opposed to the ideals that this nation was founded on. If our government is making a mistake then it is the duty of the citizens to point out that mistake.

You aren't "questioning". You are assigning blame. There is a difference.

 

[jillian]

Add to that the ongoing policies we support that makes the prospects of a happy, productive life for a child born to Palestinian parents almost nil and I, for one understand their gripe.

they won't have happy, productive lives until they decide they want peace more than they want to destroy Israel.

That has nothing to do with the attacks on us. Spain doesn't support those "policies" I assume you're referring to, and it didn't stop their subways from being bombed.

 

[Liberty4All]

Looks bad.
Obama got permission from the Yemenese govt to use drones and cruise missles on terrorist locations.
Their oil is running our so they are going broke.
3 major factions outside of the govt fighting for control and or independence.

the latest aircraft bombing attempt appears to be the direct result of the US attacing a terrorist base in Yemen.

We have special forces in Yemen.

93.6% of Americans know that if you dip a sleeping persons hand in warm water, they will urinate.
12.5% of Americans know whether or not our country supports Yemen.

It's official, urine wins over Yemen.

LOL. So because a terrorist got mad that we are killing other terrorists and tried to do something about it we should....stop trying to kill terrorists! Let me add this up. Terrorists are training in Yemen to kill me----->The United States government tries to kill them so they can't kill me----->Nigerian terrorist gets mad because my government killed some of his terrorist friends----->Nigerian terrorist tries to kill me. How does not bombing the original terrorists so we don't piss off the future terrorists going to keep me safe? Its the same broken argument favored by the same type of people that thought appeasing Nazi Germany was the way to go.

(Me)=American People.

 

[alan1]

Looks bad.
Obama got permission from the Yemenese govt to use drones and cruise missles on terrorist locations.
Their oil is running our so they are going broke.
3 major factions outside of the govt fighting for control and or independence.

the latest aircraft bombing attempt appears to be the direct result of the US attacing a terrorist base in Yemen.

We have special forces in Yemen.

93.6% of Americans know that if you dip a sleeping persons hand in warm water, they will urinate.
12.5% of Americans know whether or not our country supports Yemen.

It's official, urine wins over Yemen.

LOL. So because a terrorist got mad that we are killing other terrorists and tried to do something about it we should....stop trying to kill terrorists! Let me add this up. Terrorists are training in Yemen to kill me----->The United States government tries to kill them so they can't kill me----->Nigerian terrorist gets mad because my government killed some of his terrorist friends----->Nigerian terrorist tries to kill me. How does not bombing the original terrorists so we don't piss off the future terrorists going to keep me safe? Its the same broken argument favored by the same type of people that thought appeasing Nazi Germany was the way to go.

(Me)=American People.

You should go take a leak, the urine is backing up.

 

[AVG-JOE]

That's not true. For one we were occupying Saudi Arabia, which is muslim holy land. We supported the Saudi Arabian government, which many see as oppressive. We bombed Iraq during Clinton's administration, and not to mention the sanctions we imposed on Iraq that led to the deaths of innocent civilians.

Add to that the ongoing policies we support that makes the prospects of a happy, productive life for a child born to Palestinian parents almost nil and I, for one understand their gripe.

As opposed to supporting a Palestinian state that would make the prospects of a happy, productive life for a child born to a Jewish parent in Israel almost nil?

If the United States wants to be all about "Democracy For All" and "Self Determination" for Nations and Peoples the Muslim World is right to call 'Bullshit' on our policies in the Middle East.

Can you honestly say that the policies prosecuted by the US in supporting the blockade of Gaza has anything to do with the people of the region having self determination?

Do you REALLY believe that if the Palestinians had dirt to call their own that wasn't being blockaded by their closest neighbor things wouldn't be better for both sides in that conflict?

What does it say about America that 'officially' we would rather see young Muslim men standing in line for UN handouts than free to work to make their lives better for them and their families while young Jewish men build settlements on land that is somewhere between "not theirs" and "in legal dispute"? So much for advocating personal responsibility and independence.

I still can't see exactly what it is that we're hoping to accomplish in Israel.... Why do we expose ourselves to so much grief on their behalf? The Israelis have always seemed like bullies to me.

 

[Polk]

Looks bad.
Obama got permission from the Yemenese govt to use drones and cruise missles on terrorist locations.
Their oil is running our so they are going broke.
3 major factions outside of the govt fighting for control and or independence.

the latest aircraft bombing attempt appears to be the direct result of the US attacing a terrorist base in Yemen.

We have special forces in Yemen.

As a matter of interest, what did Yemen spend the oil money on?

 

[Polk]

Looks bad.
Obama got permission from the Yemenese govt to use drones and cruise missles on terrorist locations.
Their oil is running our so they are going broke.
3 major factions outside of the govt fighting for control and or independence.

the latest aircraft bombing attempt appears to be the direct result of the US attacing a terrorist base in Yemen.

We have special forces in Yemen.

We need much more than drones and cruise missiles.

We need boots on the ground.

Where are you going to get them from?

 

[Polk]

We need to stop bombing other countries, so people like the Christmas-would-be-bomber aren't given the incentive to bomb us.

What if we stop and they keep bombing us anyway?

Their indiscriminate attacks on people have nothing to do with our targeted bombings of late. Their motive is an inbred hatred of all that do not believe as they do.

The only way to stop radical Muslims from killing other people is to kill them first.

It doesn't have anything to with beliefs. Belief is the cover. An attempt at moral justification. The real desire is power.

 

[AVG-JOE]

It's not appeasement to realize that leaving people alone is better than bombing them into democracy, and it's not blaming America, the typical argument of those with no argument, to realize that our foreign policy has blowback.

ap⋅pease
  /əˈpiz/ Show Spell...

>snip for brevity<

...er have the will to kill innocent Americans/Christians/Muslims/etc.

No, it's not my goal to soothe any fiery terrorist hearts. It's my goal to let people live their lives in peace so that they don't become terrorists in the first place.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kevin_Kennedy again.

Bummer, Kevin!

 

[Polk]

What if we stop and they keep bombing us anyway?

Their indiscriminate attacks on people have nothing to do with our targeted bombings of late. Their motive is an inbred hatred of all that do not believe as they do.

The only way to stop radical Muslims from killing other people is to kill them first.

Except the would-be Christmas bomber specifically mentioned that he chose to do this because of our bombing of Yemen a few weeks ago.

And had we not bombed the camps, he would have had another excuse.

 

[Polk]

This IS the way to fight this fight people.

Yemeni government wants us there , we do the air thing and they do the ground thing.

That way the boots are Yemeni and they are also Muslim.

No infidel to fight, only fellow muslims being aided by air.

What if Yemen doesn't want to do the ground thing?

They do. These guys are as big a threat to the current regime in Sana'a as they are to us.

 

[Polk]

We need to stop bombing other countries, so people like the Christmas-would-be-bomber aren't given the incentive to bomb us.

They don't need an excuse. The attacks on the WTC both occurred BEFORE we bombed anyone...

That's not to say we shouldn't respond appropriately. But APPROPRIATELY is the key word.

Thinking they'll be nice if we just ignore them is naive though.

That's not true. For one we were occupying Saudi Arabia, which is muslim holy land. We supported the Saudi Arabian government, which many see as oppressive. We bombed Iraq during Clinton's administration, and not to mention the sanctions we imposed on Iraq that led to the deaths of innocent civilians.

We never occupied Saudi Arabia. We were the invited guests of the Saudi government. Also, the bombings in Iraq occurred years after the first attack on the World Trade Center.

 

[AVG-JOE]

ap&#8901;pease
&#8194;&#8194;/&#601;&#712;piz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-peez] Show IPA
Use appeasement in a Sentence
See web results for appeasement
See images of appeasement
–verb (used with object), -peased, -peas&#8901;ing.
1. to bring to a state of peace, quiet, ease, calm, or contentment; pacify; soothe: to appease an angry king.
2. to satisfy, allay, or relieve; assuage: The fruit appeased his hunger.
3. to yield or concede to the belligerent demands of (a nation, group, person, etc.) in a conciliatory effort, sometimes at the expense of justice or other principles.

See bolded portion please.

Your argument is essentially to yield or concede enforcing our national security interests overseas in an effort to soothe their fiery terrorists hearts is it not? Are these terrorists demands NOT belligerent? Would our yielding to their demands not be conciliatory in its efforts?

Justice would SURELY be an expense of your policy. Our principles, as Obama himself has stated, even in his Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech, would SURELY be compromised. And finally our security would be worse off for it. Your foreign policy leanings are childish and naive at best and if implemented would lead to a surge in terrorism and strikes against this country and our allies.

The simple fact remains that if their were no threat, we would not be over there. Ignoring the threat does not make it go away. We tried that during the Clinton years by treating terrorism as a law enforcement issue and it cost us thousands of American lives. I was in 9th grade and barely knew what a Muslim was when I saw the horror they inflicted on my country as I walked into my next class. This country should fight terrorists in every corner of the earth until they no longer have the will to kill innocent Americans/Christians/Muslims/etc.

No, it's not my goal to soothe any fiery terrorist hearts. It's my goal to let people live their lives in peace so that they don't become terrorists in the first place.

Where does it stop? Do we simply give in every time an angry nation/people/group attack our innocent civilians? What kind of precedent will this set? You say we should "let people live their lives". Were we NOT allowing the recently failed Nigerian bomber his liberty? Sounds to me as though he had too much liberty and now our President and Homeland Security director are scrambling to figure out why.

Only someone who "blames America" could possibly twist America's foreign policy to effectively blame it for a man being deprived of peace when that same policy let the man freely fly into the country in the first place to experience our constitutionally protected freedoms.

Your arguments constantly defeat themselves. I'm new here but I've already grown tired of talking down to your level. Either raise your game or I'll move on.

Weakness on the world stage breeds aggression from those who seek to do us damage. Appeasement DOES NOT work.

You can't seem to see beyond the world at war that has been orchestrated to keep you in line via your fears.... you have my sympathy.

Imagine living in a world where freedom is real, education is with in reach of everyone and people are too busy pursuing their dreams to become pissed off enough to sacrifice their own lives to make a political point.

All that would leave as a problem is the truly crazy people. The cops should be able to keep them in check.

I honestly don't believe that 'official' America really wants that kind of freedom here or anywhere on the planet. Do you?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Add to that the ongoing policies we support that makes the prospects of a happy, productive life for a child born to Palestinian parents almost nil and I, for one understand their gripe.

they won't have happy, productive lives until they decide they want peace more than they want to destroy Israel.

That has nothing to do with the attacks on us. Spain doesn't support those "policies" I assume you're referring to, and it didn't stop their subways from being bombed.

What you say is true and I will be the first to admit that the entire situation is a complete cluster-fuck. There are certainly factions within Islam that need to be dealt with as criminal because they commit crimes and the whole 'death to Israel' mantra is disgusting. All I'm trying to say is that if we truly supported freedom and self determination for all of the people on both sides of the conflict there would be a lot fewer radicals and a lot more moderates. Moderates have proven themselves easier to negotiate with.

 

[Emma]

However, had we not bombed Yemen, killing innocent civilians, the would-be Christmas bomber would not have attempted to kill innocent American civilians. These are his own words.

When did we bomb Yemen, killing innocent civilians?

 

[Emma]

Except the would-be Christmas bomber specifically mentioned that he chose to do this because of our bombing of Yemen a few weeks ago.

Sorry... I missed this post.

So his excuse is our bombing in Yemen on December 17th and 24th as the reason he did this?

Interesting.

He bought his ticket on December 16th.

So I guess he's psychic and psycho.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

They don't need an excuse. The attacks on the WTC both occurred BEFORE we bombed anyone...

That's not to say we shouldn't respond appropriately. But APPROPRIATELY is the key word.

Thinking they'll be nice if we just ignore them is naive though.

That's not true. For one we were occupying Saudi Arabia, which is muslim holy land. We supported the Saudi Arabian government, which many see as oppressive. We bombed Iraq during Clinton's administration, and not to mention the sanctions we imposed on Iraq that led to the deaths of innocent civilians.

We never occupied Saudi Arabia. We were the invited guests of the Saudi government. Also, the bombings in Iraq occurred years after the first attack on the World Trade Center.

An oppressive Saudi government that many see our support for as support for oppression.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

However, had we not bombed Yemen, killing innocent civilians, the would-be Christmas bomber would not have attempted to kill innocent American civilians. These are his own words.

When did we bomb Yemen, killing innocent civilians?

It was certainly hushed up and not covered in the news as much as it should be, but we bombed Yemen a few weeks ago and, not surprisingly, many innocent civilians were killed.

Cruise Missiles Strike Yemen - ABC News