How do I reach you?

[Unkotare]

I've got a new college student I really like that I am helping with an English Comp class. She's in a program for low income moms and their young children; it's a great program, but not all of them are really ready, academically, for college. With this young lady, I'm banging my head on the wall. After a month of trying, I feel like Annie Sullivan crying to Helen Keller "HOW DO I REACH YOU?"

She's a concrete thinker. She is supposed to learn to analyze pieces of writing from the perspective of genre, audience, writer, purpose, etc. She cannot move off telling us what the piece is about. She looks at me with that glazed look when I say "Step back and look at the piece from the perspective of why it was written, not WHAT was written." She can't make that leap to analysis; all her responses devolve back into a book report. I don't know what else to do with her. The prof gives her questions to answer, but it doesn't help. She's not a drooling idiot. I think she could do it with the right assistance climbing onto the first rung of the ladder, but I don't know what to do to get her there.

I know there are some smart and wise people on this board, so if any of you have any experience with this, please, please, please help.

some people just arent cut out for higher education, like the vast majority of black people for example.

Cowards like this ^^^^^^ should reserve their pathetic bullshit for the race relations forum.

 

[Disir]

She is probably doing it every day and doesn't even realize it. I bet she can recognize a hustler. I bet she applies that to an entire group of people she refuses to interact with at all. I bet she has seen late night commercials that target the elderly. She might even zone out or ignore them because she isn't the one those commercials were written for. I bet she has heard commercials on the radio that target low income people with good credit/bad credit/no credit at all for a vehicle. Then there are those commercials that offer insurance for people with DUIs. Commercials target different people of different classes.

Perhaps if she sees how she is already analyzing why those messages are being sent and how she filters them in and out then it won't seem unreachable. Some people will never move out of concrete thinking. Some people just need a little more confidence in the knowledge they already possess.

 

[anotherlife]

I am a student. Well not of writing/English, my subject is maths, but maybe I can offer a clue. I used to drive my tutors crazy. So badly, that one was so upset he forgot to take his fee at the last lesson. I would say your student needs to realize herself where she goes wrong. She is trying to do the work before understanding what is required. That is a result of motivation in the negative sense, that and pressure. Is there a point to educate people when you need a genius IQ at minimum to get a job, anyways? She may do better with cosmetics school instead of college. She will make more money too.

 

[Coyote]

Is it possible to take the story and create a series of questions for her to answer that force her to take in another viewpoint? Maybe doing it from the entire story is too difficult right now for whatever reason but specific questIons can provide a pathway to start looking at another perspective.

 

[impuretrash]

I've got a new college student I really like that I am helping with an English Comp class. She's in a program for low income moms and their young children; it's a great program, but not all of them are really ready, academically, for college. With this young lady, I'm banging my head on the wall. After a month of trying, I feel like Annie Sullivan crying to Helen Keller "HOW DO I REACH YOU?"

She's a concrete thinker. She is supposed to learn to analyze pieces of writing from the perspective of genre, audience, writer, purpose, etc. She cannot move off telling us what the piece is about. She looks at me with that glazed look when I say "Step back and look at the piece from the perspective of why it was written, not WHAT was written." She can't make that leap to analysis; all her responses devolve back into a book report. I don't know what else to do with her. The prof gives her questions to answer, but it doesn't help. She's not a drooling idiot. I think she could do it with the right assistance climbing onto the first rung of the ladder, but I don't know what to do to get her there.

I know there are some smart and wise people on this board, so if any of you have any experience with this, please, please, please help.

some people just arent cut out for higher education, like the vast majority of black people for example.

Cowards like this ^^^^^^ should reserve their pathetic bullshit for the race relations forum.

Would it make you feel better if I admitted that most white people are unfit for college as well? Higher education should be reserved for the best and brightest, not every average Joe.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Why did the chicken cross the road?

Question: Why did the chicken cross the road

Some of those are really clever, Joe. Thanks!

Do you have any idea of some of her interests? Sometimes a good way to reach people is to use something they relate to outside of academia.

Have you tried having her think about some common metaphors?

You could also take a story that she knows very well, The Wizard of Oz.

Now THAT movie, at least I know. Thanks Lewdog. Great idea. Metaphors are a great idea, too.
LOL remembering questions from the SAT about "Violin is to .... as hotdog is to mustard." Or some such shit.

That's an analogy, not a metaphor.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I know there are some smart and wise people on this board, so if any of you have any experience with this, please, please, please help.

Wait....wut?

I think she is on the wrong website.

 

[Lewdog]

Why did the chicken cross the road?

Question: Why did the chicken cross the road

Some of those are really clever, Joe. Thanks!

Do you have any idea of some of her interests? Sometimes a good way to reach people is to use something they relate to outside of academia.

Have you tried having her think about some common metaphors?

You could also take a story that she knows very well, The Wizard of Oz.

Now THAT movie, at least I know. Thanks Lewdog. Great idea. Metaphors are a great idea, too.
LOL remembering questions from the SAT about "Violin is to .... as hotdog is to mustard." Or some such shit.

That's an analogy, not a metaphor.

100 Metaphor Examples - For Kids and Adults | Ereading Worksheets

 

[Weatherman2020]

 

[Vastator]

I've got a new college student I really like that I am helping with an English Comp class. She's in a program for low income moms and their young children; it's a great program, but not all of them are really ready, academically, for college. With this young lady, I'm banging my head on the wall. After a month of trying, I feel like Annie Sullivan crying to Helen Keller "HOW DO I REACH YOU?"

She's a concrete thinker. She is supposed to learn to analyze pieces of writing from the perspective of genre, audience, writer, purpose, etc. She cannot move off telling us what the piece is about. She looks at me with that glazed look when I say "Step back and look at the piece from the perspective of why it was written, not WHAT was written." She can't make that leap to analysis; all her responses devolve back into a book report. I don't know what else to do with her. The prof gives her questions to answer, but it doesn't help. She's not a drooling idiot. I think she could do it with the right assistance climbing onto the first rung of the ladder, but I don't know what to do to get her there.

I know there are some smart and wise people on this board, so if any of you have any experience with this, please, please, please help.

some people just arent cut out for higher education, like the vast majority of black people for example.

Cowards like this ^^^^^^ should reserve their pathetic bullshit for the race relations forum.

Would it make you feel better if I admitted that most white people are unfit for college as well? Higher education should be reserved for the best and brightest, not every average Joe.

Very true. The rabid push coming from acedemia these days,that pressures every student to go to college, does a great injustice to many young people. Many just aren’t cut out for it. So many, spend so many years, and so many thousands of dollars only to not finish; or finish with a worthless degree, and so much debt, they’d have been better off getting a house. At least once they can’t make the house payment; the bank can take it back.

 

[OldLady]

She is probably doing it every day and doesn't even realize it. I bet she can recognize a hustler. I bet she applies that to an entire group of people she refuses to interact with at all. I bet she has seen late night commercials that target the elderly. She might even zone out or ignore them because she isn't the one those commercials were written for. I bet she has heard commercials on the radio that target low income people with good credit/bad credit/no credit at all for a vehicle. Then there are those commercials that offer insurance for people with DUIs. Commercials target different people of different classes.

Perhaps if she sees how she is already analyzing why those messages are being sent and how she filters them in and out then it won't seem unreachable. Some people will never move out of concrete thinking. Some people just need a little more confidence in the knowledge they already possess.

Kisses, Disir. Unlike some of the posters here who are ready to write her off, I KNOW she is not hopeless. I'm going to keep in mind that confidence (which she sure isn't getting so far in this class) is as important as the content, especially at first. Thank you.

 

[OldLady]

Why did the chicken cross the road?

Question: Why did the chicken cross the road

Some of those are really clever, Joe. Thanks!

Do you have any idea of some of her interests? Sometimes a good way to reach people is to use something they relate to outside of academia.

Have you tried having her think about some common metaphors?

You could also take a story that she knows very well, The Wizard of Oz.

Now THAT movie, at least I know. Thanks Lewdog. Great idea. Metaphors are a great idea, too.
LOL remembering questions from the SAT about "Violin is to .... as hotdog is to mustard." Or some such shit.

That's an analogy, not a metaphor.

I know, Admiral. Analogies are similar but more complex than metaphors. Thank you for keeping me straight.

 

[Vastator]

She is probably doing it every day and doesn't even realize it. I bet she can recognize a hustler. I bet she applies that to an entire group of people she refuses to interact with at all. I bet she has seen late night commercials that target the elderly. She might even zone out or ignore them because she isn't the one those commercials were written for. I bet she has heard commercials on the radio that target low income people with good credit/bad credit/no credit at all for a vehicle. Then there are those commercials that offer insurance for people with DUIs. Commercials target different people of different classes.

Perhaps if she sees how she is already analyzing why those messages are being sent and how she filters them in and out then it won't seem unreachable. Some people will never move out of concrete thinking. Some people just need a little more confidence in the knowledge they already possess.

Kisses, Disir. Unlike some of the posters here who are ready to write her off, I KNOW she is not hopeless. I'm going to keep in mind that confidence (which she sure isn't getting so far in this class) is as important as the content, especially at first. Thank you.

But are you making efficient, judicious use of our collective tax dollars in doing so? Or do you subscribe to the "blank check for a cause" ideology?

 

[OldLady]

I am a student. Well not of writing/English, my subject is maths, but maybe I can offer a clue. I used to drive my tutors crazy. So badly, that one was so upset he forgot to take his fee at the last lesson. I would say your student needs to realize herself where she goes wrong. She is trying to do the work before understanding what is required. That is a result of motivation in the negative sense, that and pressure. Is there a point to educate people when you need a genius IQ at minimum to get a job, anyways? She may do better with cosmetics school instead of college. She will make more money too.

I remember you were very helpful when I asked a math question a few months ago. I know she is trying to do the work before understanding what is required--that's the easy part. The hard part is helping her to understand.

I'm not ready to steer her into cosmetology school yet, although in general I don't disagree with you.

 

[Unkotare]

She is probably doing it every day and doesn't even realize it. I bet she can recognize a hustler. I bet she applies that to an entire group of people she refuses to interact with at all. I bet she has seen late night commercials that target the elderly. She might even zone out or ignore them because she isn't the one those commercials were written for. I bet she has heard commercials on the radio that target low income people with good credit/bad credit/no credit at all for a vehicle. Then there are those commercials that offer insurance for people with DUIs. Commercials target different people of different classes.

Perhaps if she sees how she is already analyzing why those messages are being sent and how she filters them in and out then it won't seem unreachable. Some people will never move out of concrete thinking. Some people just need a little more confidence in the knowledge they already possess.

Kisses, Disir. Unlike some of the posters here who are ready to write her off, I KNOW she is not hopeless. I'm going to keep in mind that confidence (which she sure isn't getting so far in this class) is as important as the content, especially at first. Thank you.

You might be missing a simple solution.

 

[Vastator]

I am a student. Well not of writing/English, my subject is maths, but maybe I can offer a clue. I used to drive my tutors crazy. So badly, that one was so upset he forgot to take his fee at the last lesson. I would say your student needs to realize herself where she goes wrong. She is trying to do the work before understanding what is required. That is a result of motivation in the negative sense, that and pressure. Is there a point to educate people when you need a genius IQ at minimum to get a job, anyways? She may do better with cosmetics school instead of college. She will make more money too.

I remember you were very helpful when I asked a math question a few months ago. I know she is trying to do the work before understanding what is required--that's the easy part. The hard part is helping her to understand.

I'm not ready to steer her into cosmetology school yet, although in general I don't disagree with you.

On the surface... It sounds like you're trying to shoehorn her into a role for which she's either intellectually ill equipped, or doesn't have a natural talent for... Why not play to her strengths?

 

[OldLady]

She is probably doing it every day and doesn't even realize it. I bet she can recognize a hustler. I bet she applies that to an entire group of people she refuses to interact with at all. I bet she has seen late night commercials that target the elderly. She might even zone out or ignore them because she isn't the one those commercials were written for. I bet she has heard commercials on the radio that target low income people with good credit/bad credit/no credit at all for a vehicle. Then there are those commercials that offer insurance for people with DUIs. Commercials target different people of different classes.

Perhaps if she sees how she is already analyzing why those messages are being sent and how she filters them in and out then it won't seem unreachable. Some people will never move out of concrete thinking. Some people just need a little more confidence in the knowledge they already possess.

Kisses, Disir. Unlike some of the posters here who are ready to write her off, I KNOW she is not hopeless. I'm going to keep in mind that confidence (which she sure isn't getting so far in this class) is as important as the content, especially at first. Thank you.

But are you making efficient, judicious use of our collective tax dollars in doing so? Or do you subscribe to the "blank check for a cause" ideology?

If this student can't cut it, she will be the first to fail in the program. Close to thirty students completed the program last year and are actively enrolled in college now in pursuit of a career. Now we're on to another thirty in Year 2. It will make a huge difference to those parents and their children (and their children) for their whole lives to have higher education, not just economically but socially. I don't believe the taxpayers' pennies are being misspent at all; if anything I wish it weren't just 60 students we've helped/are helping.

 

[BlackSand]

I've got a new college student I really like that I am helping with an English Comp class. She's in a program for low income moms and their young children; it's a great program, but not all of them are really ready, academically, for college. With this young lady, I'm banging my head on the wall. After a month of trying, I feel like Annie Sullivan crying to Helen Keller "HOW DO I REACH YOU?"

She's a concrete thinker. She is supposed to learn to analyze pieces of writing from the perspective of genre, audience, writer, purpose, etc. She cannot move off telling us what the piece is about. She looks at me with that glazed look when I say "Step back and look at the piece from the perspective of why it was written, not WHAT was written." She can't make that leap to analysis; all her responses devolve back into a book report. I don't know what else to do with her. The prof gives her questions to answer, but it doesn't help. She's not a drooling idiot. I think she could do it with the right assistance climbing onto the first rung of the ladder, but I don't know what to do to get her there.

I know there are some smart and wise people on this board, so if any of you have any experience with this, please, please, please help.

When someone is smart, but won't use their capabilities, it is usually centered in insecurities.

She is most likely secure with her ability to comprehend what is written.
She is also most likely insecure with risking a personal evaluation based on skills outside of her comfort zone with plain comprehension.

My guess is that she doesn't like being 'wrong' and won't risk less than the obvious in a response.
The only way you overcome that is experience, practice, creativity and encouragement.

A quick fix is to find a way to get her to understand that being less than 100% correct is okay and not the end of the world.

.

 

[Eaglewings]

Youtube is a great tool to be taught visually....

 

[OldLady]

I've got a new college student I really like that I am helping with an English Comp class. She's in a program for low income moms and their young children; it's a great program, but not all of them are really ready, academically, for college. With this young lady, I'm banging my head on the wall. After a month of trying, I feel like Annie Sullivan crying to Helen Keller "HOW DO I REACH YOU?"

She's a concrete thinker. She is supposed to learn to analyze pieces of writing from the perspective of genre, audience, writer, purpose, etc. She cannot move off telling us what the piece is about. She looks at me with that glazed look when I say "Step back and look at the piece from the perspective of why it was written, not WHAT was written." She can't make that leap to analysis; all her responses devolve back into a book report. I don't know what else to do with her. The prof gives her questions to answer, but it doesn't help. She's not a drooling idiot. I think she could do it with the right assistance climbing onto the first rung of the ladder, but I don't know what to do to get her there.

I know there are some smart and wise people on this board, so if any of you have any experience with this, please, please, please help.

When someone is smart, but won't use their capabilities, it is usually centered in insecurities.

She is most like secure with her ability to comprehend what is written.
She is also most likely insecure with risking a personal evaluation based on skills outside of her comfort zone with plain comprehension.

My guess is that she doesn't like being 'wrong' and won't risk less than the obvious in a response.
The only way you overcome that is experience, practice, creativity and encouragement.

A quick fix is to find a way to get her to understand that being less than 100% correct is okay and not the end of the world.

.

You're very right there, and very wise. She has flat out told us that she was criticized and ignored and laughed at for her uneducated dialect as a kid. She's as good as anyone else in the class at plowing through the reading, but when it comes to putting her thoughts on paper--excuse my French, but she sucks. I wish I had more time to work with her, without this class bearing down on her like a speeding locomotive, to expand her comfort zone.

Thanks, BlackSand--and everyone else who has had helpful suggestions.