How Can We Solve The Illegal Immigration Problem?

[Madeline]

What do you propose Bullfighter? There were Japanese survivors even after we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

[Angelhair]

No they will not! They don't come to this country just looking for work - they know ALL the freebies that they can get here - don't kid yourselves! What other country gives them free schooling, free medical, free food, free housing, etc???? Get a clue people, don't fall for the 'I come looking to feed my family', or 'looking for the american dream', or 'looking for a better job'....hogwash!

lets see... how many kids does the average mexican family have? how much actual $ would they get from welfare and other government programs? how quickly would they starve to death just using that money?

Angelhair, unless a company operates in a regulated industry (e.g., operates a coal mine) it has no "operating license". Most counties have ordinances requiring businesses to obtain and maintain a business permit, but the consequences for not doing so are mild, to say the least.

We need to throw US employers who hire illegals into prison and confiscate their businesses -- in other words, drive up the "risk" side of the risk/benefit analysis so they will STOP doing this.

Do any of you realize the problems that stem from these illegals coming into the USA??? The ONLY solution is to keep them out!!! Why do the american people have to sacrifice and pay for anything to do with the illegals??? For pete's sake people, they are here without permission and yet we bend over backwards to appease them and make them comfortable even to the point of sending decent citizens to jail for the mess that was not of their own choosing or making. Somehow throwing employers into prison for hiring people who lie just does not make sense!!! The ones in WA are the ones who should be thrown into prison for not enforcing immigration laws and forcing more laws that just make no sense at all!!!

 

[Madeline]

Sorry Angelhair, but you are wrong and I think you know it. Most US employers know perfectly well the workers are illegal -- that is precisely why they feel safe from workplace safety laws and don't bother to pay minimum wage.

The US profits from illegals and any discussion of sealing the borders and deporting those who are here needs to admit and address the guilt every last one of us has for the problem.

Including YOU.

 

[Angelhair]

Yes, I disapprove -- condemn -- outsourcing jobs to other nations. It happened partially because we sat back while Republicans passed tax discount after tax discount to make the decision to move factories and other employment opportunities out of America and away from our minimum wage laws, etc. It's despicable.

If Mexico had a growing middle class, its citizens would see opportunities in their homeland and would not emigrate here, legally or otherwise.

As for punishing US employers that hire illegals, I favor it -- violently. I'm not sure what your position is. Care to state it again?

I'm not "on a Mexican thing". We HAVE a Mexican illegal immigration problem. But yes, I favor deporting anyone who is here illegally -- and that includes anyone who has overstayed a visa.

Can't blame the repubs for everything that goes wrong in this country - dems are as much to blame.

Mexico has a growing middle class. What it does not have is opportunities and do not know, or care, how to go about giving their people such.

Punishing employers is not the answer as it's not fair when they don't have the time or money to weed out those who lie, cheat, and steal to get a job - keeping illegals out is.

 

[Madeline]

Maybe you are right, Angelhair. The reading I have done leads me to conclude that Mexico's elite has been confiscating property and has all but decimated its middle class. Care to share some linked articles?

Economy of Mexico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ConHog]

U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark was a supreme court case, buddy. nothing holds precedent over that save the constitution itself.

Not even other SCOTUS rulings?

nothing about a precedent makes a decision unconstitutional, either. a higher court will have to strike it down under appeal, however, the supreme court has no such superior. for this reason, the supreme court has overturned its own precedents, most famously in brown v. board of education.

class is dismissed.

In other words, SCOUTS just makes it up as it goes along and is nothing more than a political tool that cares only about serving the ends of its members and doesn't give a damn about what the Constitution really says

the supreme court seems to try to dodge making and even moreso breaking precedent. a lower court should avoid breaking precedent entirely. it could be argued that the supreme court is a political machine, but if you've ever read a decision, they are quite well considered. can you substantiate the conclusion that the SCOTUS doesn't give a damn about the constitution from an analysis of one of their opinions? is your opinion based on the same understanding you had when you felt that precedent was a constitutional barrier?

No he can't. It's the same old tired argument anyone makes when we get a SCOTUS ruling someone doesn't like. "They're making law instead of just interpreting the CON" well duh interpreting the CON is obviously going to shape US policy and laws. At THIS point the CON reads that anchor babies are citizens , if SCOTUS issues a different ruling on the subject then is that unconstitutional ? I say no since the SOTUS was designed in fact to decide what is and what isn't constitutional.

 

[antagon]

At THIS point the CON reads that anchor babies are citizens , if SCOTUS issues a different ruling on the subject then is that unconstitutional ? I say no since the SOTUS was designed in fact to decide what is and what isn't constitutional.

i dont think that this would come to a constitutional interpretation, but rather an act of congress or an amendment to the 14th, and some time down the line. mass immigration is too dear a policy for US lawmakers to act to constrain it. the most we could expect at present is an action to bring it above board for the sake of fiscal (and political) aims.

i'm partial for fee-based visas and citizenships for non-US born, and don't feel that having kids should exempt anyone.

 

[Samson]

At THIS point the CON reads that anchor babies are citizens , if SCOTUS issues a different ruling on the subject then is that unconstitutional ? I say no since the SOTUS was designed in fact to decide what is and what isn't constitutional.

i dont think that this would come to a constitutional interpretation, but rather an act of congress or an amendment to the 14th, and some time down the line. mass immigration is too dear a policy for US lawmakers to act to constrain it. the most we could expect at present is an action to bring it above board for the sake of fiscal (and political) aims.

i'm partial for fee-based visas and citizenships for non-US born, and don't feel that having kids should exempt anyone.

"Mass immigration is too dear a policy?"

Someone should inform Haitians and Cubans.

 

[Angelhair]

Maybe you are right, Angelhair. The reading I have done leads me to conclude that Mexico's elite has been confiscating property and has all but decimated its middle class. Care to share some linked articles?

Economy of Mexico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A New Kind of Illegal Alien - Mexico's Middle Class and Financial Elite
Submitted by Robert Oak on Mon, 03/23/2009

Look who is border hopping now. It's not your typical cheap labor, literally referred to as cargo by illegal employers and smugglers, but instead Mexico's middle class and well to do are taking that desert stroll:

As a drug war rages throughout Mexico and along its northern border, an increasing number of Mexicans are crossing into the United States to flee the killings, extortion and kidnappings that have plagued places like Juárez and Tijuana.

The escalating war near America's southern border is driving embattled Mexicans to seek safety in the United States. What if the tide of violence follows them?

Unlike the traditional job-seeking migrants, whose numbers have dropped in part due to the slumping US economy and increased border enforcement, this new migrant class comprises business owners, executives and other professionals who choose safety in the United States--even if it means detention--over freedom in their own country.

The drug war, which has claimed nearly 10,000 lives in a little more than two years-- more than 1,600 in Juárez in the last year alone--is a central component. But where most of those gruesome killings--including beheadings and mutilated bodies dumped in mass graves--involve criminals killing other criminals, rivals' family members or police, a dark, secondary shadow of lawlessness is enveloping innocent men, women and children who are fleeing for their lives.

Yet of course our lovely special interest agenda groups keep any real action from happening on the ever growing horror story of terrorist drug cartels South of the Border. Doesn't seem to matter that these very thugs operate in over 230 cities in the United States.

So, now Mexico is no longer just exporting it's excess unskilled labor, literally they are exporting their citizens who would be key players in turning Mexico's economy around....due to stark raving fear and running for their very lives.

A New Kind of Illegal Alien - Mexico's Middle Class and Financial Elite | The Economic Populist

 

[Angelhair]

Maybe you are right, Angelhair. The reading I have done leads me to conclude that Mexico's elite has been confiscating property and has all but decimated its middle class. Care to share some linked articles?

Economy of Mexico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mexico's Middle Class in the Neoliberal Era

Mexico’s modern middle class emerged in the decades after World War II, a period of spectacular economic growth and social change. Though little studied, the middle class now accounts for one in five Gilbert’s book offers a smart approach to the correlation between social class and recent political-economic issues that are becoming ever more important in Mexico.

Mexican households. This path-breaking book explores the changing fortunes and political transformation of the middle class, especially during the last two decades, as Mexico has adopted new, market-oriented economic policies and has abandoned one-party rule. Blending the personal narratives of middle-class Mexicans with analyses of national surveys of households and voters, Dennis Gilbert traces the development of the middle class since the 1940s. He describes how middle-class Mexicans were affected by the economic upheavals of the 1980s and 1990s and examines their shifting relations with the ruling Partido Revolucionario Institucional (PRI). Long faithful to the PRI, the middle class gradually grew disenchanted. Gilbert examines middle-class reactions to the 1968 Tlatelolco massacre, the 1982 debt crisis, the government’s feeble response to the 1985 Mexico City earthquake, and its brazen manipulation of the vote count in the 1988 presidential election. Drawing on detailed interviews with Mexican families, he describes the effects of the 1994–95 peso crisis on middle-class households and their economic and political responses to it. His analysis of exit poll data from the 2000 elections shows that the lopsided middle-class vote in favor of opposition candidate Vicente Fox played a critical role in the election that drove the PRI from power after seven decades. The book closes with an epilogue on the middle class and the July 2006 presidential elections.


Mexico's Middle Class in the Neoliberal Era

 

[syrenn]

Maybe you are right, Angelhair. The reading I have done leads me to conclude that Mexico's elite has been confiscating property and has all but decimated its middle class. Care to share some linked articles?

Economy of Mexico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again what the mexicans do in their own country is mexicos problem. We have no say what their eliet do or dont do. If the mexicans are upset about it how about they do something to change it.

mexico is mexicans problem

 

[Samson]

Maybe you are right, Angelhair. The reading I have done leads me to conclude that Mexico's elite has been confiscating property and has all but decimated its middle class. Care to share some linked articles?

Economy of Mexico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again what the mexicans do in their own country is mexicos problem. We have no say what their eliet do or dont do. If the mexicans are upset about it how about they do something to change it.

mexico is mexicans problem

The Gringos are the cause of Mexico's Problems.

First, they misspell "Elite"

Then they don't use apostrophes.

 

[Madeline]

Angelhair, how can you write or quote what you have, and still disavow any US obligation or need to assist Mexico?

 

[Angelhair]

Maybe you are right, Angelhair. The reading I have done leads me to conclude that Mexico's elite has been confiscating property and has all but decimated its middle class. Care to share some linked articles?

Economy of Mexico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again what the mexicans do in their own country is mexicos problem. We have no say what their eliet do or dont do. If the mexicans are upset about it how about they do something to change it.

mexico is mexicans problem

This is true syrenn - Mexico has to solve their own problems - as it is, they have always been very sensitive when the USA tries to interfere - of course, they always accept the Billions this country sends them. The majority of their elite now reside in the USA and of course make sure to have more babies while here.

 

[Angelhair]

Angelhair, how can you write or quote what you have, and still disavow any US obligation or need to assist Mexico?

The United States for years has been trying to help Mexico - but Mexico resents such interference - as I said, they ONLY want our dollars! It is NOT the obligation of the USA to assist Mexico in the first place! Mexico has created its own problems; it's up to them to solve them. If they want the help of the USA, besides the dollars, they will ask for it, of that you can be sure. Mayor Guiliani was asked by businessmen in Mexico to go down there as a consultant - it did not do any good as the corruption runs deep.

Read:
'Members of the Giuliani team said they quickly discovered they were up against some serious challenges unlike what they faced in New York. Starting salary for Mexico City police officers is $6,000, compared to $34,000 in New York City. Most residents do not trust the police, who are infamous for extortion and taking bribes known as mordidas, or nibbles. Only an estimated 10% of crimes are reported. And the local police, a preventive force, is only able to investigate crimes when they are in the process of occurring. If a resident comes in to report a crime from 10 minutes ago, the police cannot do anything.

Giuliani Partners executives say that they may have been a victim of inflated, perhaps even unrealistically high, expectations. "Certainly when you talk to so many people in Mexico City who were either victims of crime themselves, or know people who were victims of crime, and they were tired of being victims, there was an expectation that things could change immediately," said a vice president of Giuliani Partners, Maureen Casey. "But certainly none of us, including the mayor, have the authority or the ability to do an immediate turnaround."
"We were down there, I would say, two weeks a month for almost a year, and essentially what we did was to study each aspect of the police department in Mexico City," Ms. Casey said. "We really tried to do a balance of the academic research and also real hands-on learning, and I think that is what served us the best. Really getting out in the field, spending time on patrol, learning aspects of the criminal justice system."

Read the full article.....AH

In Mexico City, Few Cheers for Giuliani - April 11, 2005 - The New York Sun

 

[Angelhair]

Maybe you are right, Angelhair. The reading I have done leads me to conclude that Mexico's elite has been confiscating property and has all but decimated its middle class. Care to share some linked articles?

Economy of Mexico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again what the mexicans do in their own country is mexicos problem. We have no say what their eliet do or dont do. If the mexicans are upset about it how about they do something to change it.

mexico is mexicans problem

The Gringos are the cause of Mexico's Problems.

First, they misspell "Elite"

Then they don't use apostrophes.

It's that typical mentality that the 'gringos' are always the cause for the problems in Mexico - thus the reason they are in such a chaotic mess and always will be as long as they keep pointing the finger of blame at their neighbor to 'el norte'. It's the way to keep from accepting responsibility for their own corruption and mistakes which have been in the making for years and years....and of course their favorite passtime - keep blaming the 'evil' U.S. of A.

 

[manu1959]

syrenn wrote in part:

Good grief woman, why should WE have to change our lives to deal with mexican illegals? Why is it unrealistic to have them exist on our doorstep? We know why they will go to any length to come here, its free.

syrenn, ever visited a very wealthy community surrounded by poor people? Someplace like Bloomfield Hills near Detroit? Do you know how they keep safe? Their cops pick up everyone black or hispanic and demand to know why they're there. They stop every beaten down car. They stop people on foot or on bicycles and demand to know what they are doing there, especially if they look out of place (meaning, not dressed like a wealthy person).

Americans have to change their lives by paying farm workers and wait staff and domestic workers a minimum wage -- and by effectively denying US businesses and employers the right to hire illegals. We have to stop importing Haitians into the Florida sugar fields on special visas that allow Big Sugar to use even children to harvest the crop -- and to do this, we have to agree that a bag of sugar will cost $10, not $1.

We have to look beyond our own borders and see what our selfish, stupid War on Drugs has done to the nations of Latin America. Those drugs are grown and brought here for US use...then let's legalize them, tax them and get the criminals out of the drug trade.

It is simply not realistic to believe that Mexicans can live horrible, wretched lives while Americans live good ones and illegal immigration will just magically end. As long as there is this terrible disparity in security and opportunity, Mexicans will strive to become Americans. They leave home for EXACTLY the same reason my folks did in the 1920's.

or you could have a foreign worker visa program and have them pay taxes ....

 

[Againsheila]

Why do Mexicans leave their homes and come to the US? Because they have no opportunity for a decent life where they live. Crime is rampant. Corruption is rampant. Unbearable poverty is inescapable there. The US, as it always has, promises so much more that breaking the law to get here is worth it -- and for many, it has been a tradition.

No, we cannot absorb the illegals who are here now into our citizenry. We need to deport them....but no matter how vigourously we enforce our immigration laws or secure our borders, we will never end the problem unless we take steps to change Mexico into a habitable place where people are content to remain.

The problem is not insoluable. Mexico has the highest GDP of any Latin American nation. What does the US need to do to entice Mexicans to return home and stay there?

What would YOU want from your home? Safety. Opportunity. We need to legalize drugs and end the stranglehold of drug crime, and we need to require the Mexican government to adopt social policies that entice illegals to go home. These people need to see the chance of a better life in Mexico, not the US.

That means we'll be paying more for food, as stoop laborers must be paid the minimum wage. But I'd much rather do that than gun down Mexican teenagers and continue to support a Drug War with my taxes that has been a failure for decades.

An honest desire to end the problem of illegal immigration means that changes must be made in the way Americans live and the way we deal with Mexico. It is entirely unrealistic to permit a third world nation to exist on our doorstep and then wonder why the people of that nation will go to any length to enter the US.

Bulcrap....Elvira had a college education, bought property and was building her own home when she decided she could come here and make MORE money. She immediately had a child out of wedlock, diagnosed with an illness so she could collect ssi on him. You want to stop them, NO WELFARE. NO citizenship to children born to illegals. A oneway ticket home to every illegal caught. A $1000 fine and 2 years in jail to everyone caught hiring an illegal and that's PER illegal they hire.

It would end in no time.

 

[antagon]

At THIS point the CON reads that anchor babies are citizens , if SCOTUS issues a different ruling on the subject then is that unconstitutional ? I say no since the SOTUS was designed in fact to decide what is and what isn't constitutional.

i dont think that this would come to a constitutional interpretation, but rather an act of congress or an amendment to the 14th, and some time down the line. mass immigration is too dear a policy for US lawmakers to act to constrain it. the most we could expect at present is an action to bring it above board for the sake of fiscal (and political) aims.

i'm partial for fee-based visas and citizenships for non-US born, and don't feel that having kids should exempt anyone.

"Mass immigration is too dear a policy?"

Someone should inform Haitians and Cubans.

you think mexicans flood over the border by accident, samson? or the irish, italians, chinese, poles, and africans before them? you can add the hatians and cubans if you like. have you been to miami, buddy? do you think they were kidding with the 'send us your poor' inscription? immigration, no, mass immigration is a fundamental US policy. you simply cant avoid it when studying our history. not true of any other country save for british and french copy-cats within the last decade or two, while our tradition is centuries old.

this is plain as day. someone should inform some americans.

 

[Angelhair]

'We have to look beyond our own borders and see what our selfish, stupid War on Drugs has done to the nations of Latin America. Those drugs are grown and brought here for US use...then let's legalize them, tax them and get the criminals out of the drug trade.'

Mexico as well as ALL latin american countries have a big drug problem! You have bought into the Hillary Clinton propaganda. Tell me, if those drugs were NOT grown in those countries, would there me any drugs for americans, as well as many others, to consume??? What came first - the drugs or the drug users? The United States is not responsible for the world problems. NO violins from this section.