How Bad Have Scholars Messed Up?

[westwall]

What sort of qualification do I need to teach anyone about pyramid whackadoodle trash? All it takes is gullible idiots, and the willingness to lie for money.

Actually there is some compelling evidence that the pyramids of Giza match up EXTREMELY well with how Orions Belt looked 4500 years ago. Why no one knows but the evidence is there.

There are MANY anomalies around the world that make me believe that there was a more ancient civilization that was lost. The 3000 year old Nimrud Lense, the aforementioned Antikythera Mechanism, the Harappa culture of India, the city of Nan Madol, built on basalt blocks weighing up to 50 tons! Then of course you have the Stone Age tunnels built throughout Europe...12,000 years old..and still extant!

Puma Punku is the city pictured in your Inca photo but the Inca said it predated them.
The stones bear no chisel marks and the city was a modern city with operational sewage and water systems.

The Baalbeck stones are the largest worked stones in the world and weigh in at a colossal 1200 tons!

And then there's Gobleki Tepe a sophisticated temple complex that dates back to the end of the last ice age. Add to that the skulls that have been found of aurochs with bullet holes in them...dating back thousands of years ago....

No, man has been around and sophisticated for a very, very long time

There is also compelling evidence that people who work in retail are better at handstands than people who don't and that and that people who eat the bottom of their muffin first want to know the sex of their baby.

Both of those facts show exactly how much your claim is worth.

Ahhhh, but here's the rub. I claimed nothing. I merely presented well known facts. It is you who are ignoring solid evidence of past civilizations that were more capable than they have been given credit for. My point is the world is vast and we know so very little about it. Anyone who willfully ignores factual data shouldn't be involved in a discussion like this in the first place, but those of us who actually WANT to learn more about mans ancient history should do so.

People like you said Troy was a fantasy. Just like them, you too are wrong. Time will tell us to what degree you are wrong.

 

[westwall]

I don't need to see Norte Dame up close to know that it took over 10 times as long to build, and was a much more difficult engineering feat than building the pyramids, but thanks for proving that you aren't interested in learning.

All you are doing is proving my theory that the ancients knew way more than supposedly modern man thinks they knew. Norte Dame probably would have been like pitching a tent for them. Again please point out why no has been able to duplicate building a pyramid like the Egyptians and the one at Teotihuacán? It's not for lack of trying. They just cant do it.

Which modern man are you talking about? Anyone who looks at history honestly knows exactly how much people knew back then, it isn't like stacking blocks together is hard. Most 2 year olds can do it.

Once again, untrue. We learn something new every year about what man knew in the ancient past. Just recently the known start date for the production of beer was pushed back over 5,000 years with discoveries made in Africa.

Anyone who thinks we know everything about the past is dreaming.

 

[westwall]

Its been proven you are wrong. Know one knows exactly what they knew. If they did they could duplicate their feats using their same methods they claim to know about. They cant. Can you explain that fact vs your illogical perception?

The fact that they can't get hundreds of thousands of people that it takes to actually build a pyramid to commit to 20 years of working in a desert does not mean that it can't be done, it just means no one wants to do it.

Maybe you are not reading all of my response. The Japanese tried to build a smaller one (60ft in height) to scale and failed even cheating using modern transportation and stone cutting methods. What part of someone did attempt to do it are you missing?

Also please explain how they built the pyramid facing exact magnetic North Pole without even having a compass? The compass was not invented for multiple centuries after the Egyptian civilization was gone.

Sun compasses have been around for a very, very long time.


http://www.suncompass.info/howtouse.htm

 

[Asclepias]

Maybe you can't understand English.

The fact that they can't get people to put in the needed effort does not prove it cannot be done. The fact that the Japanese couldn't do it, even though they spent all of 2 months trying, doesn't prove anything other than that it takes longer than two months to build a pyramid.

I think you are having a hard time grasping facts. The Japanese attempted to build a significantly smaller pyramid, while cheating with modern methods, and could not get it done. Stew on that for awhile. Maybe read it 4 times in a row. What exactly is confusing you?

They spent all of 2 months looking like clowns. It wasnt a question of man power or time. They simply couldn't do it. The Egyptian government sent them home to put them out of their misery. They couldn't even cut the stone with the tools the scholars said the Egyptians used. Is that ringing any bells for you at all?

The Japanese did not cheat using modern methods, they totally failed using the methods known to have been employed during the period. You seem to think the fact that they didn't perfect the method, even though they didn't have any experience, and didn't really take the time to do it, proves you are right. All it proves is that you don't know what you are talking about. If you did, you wouldn't keep insisting they failed even though they cheated.

Yeah they did cheat and still failed. The Egyptians didn't have trucks and helicopters to my knowledge. You gotta credible link that says they did?

The problem is that they have not proven that the primitive tools and methods that they assert the builders used are equal to the task. In fact, several well-documented attempts over the past 30 years have actually failed to replicate what the builders achieved. In the 1970s a Japanese team funded by Nissan tried to build a one-third, scale model of the Great Pyramid using the methods Egyptologists claim the ancient engineers employed. They could not duplicate a single step of the process.

They gave up and called on modern technology. Even with the aid of trucks and helicopters they could not position the stones accurately and the finished pyramid turned out to be a haphazard mess. Then in the 1990s NOVA filmed another effort aimed at proving that Egyptologists were right. It was nowhere near as ambitious as the Japanese project. This time a team of experts tried set about the task of quarrying a 35-ton obelisk -- rather small by Egyptian standards -- using dolorite hammers, then transporting it on wooden skids and lifting it into place via a dirt ramp.

The NOVA team gave up rather quickly so slow was the quarrying process. They soon realized that the ancient method of transport was also hopeless and they called in a bulldozer to quarry the stone and a truck to carry it to the site. The first difficult steps having been performed with the aid of modern machinery they tried to lift the obelisk into place using their primitive scheme. That also failed.

Now consider that the blocks of granite forming the ceiling of the King's Chamber weigh 50-tons and they had to be lifted to that height and precisely maneuvered into a difficult position. Furthermore, the largest obelisk in Egypt weighs ten times as much as the one the NOVA team struggled with unsuccessfully. We have to keep in mind that the only tools and sources of power that Egyptologists are willing to allow were primitive. They had no steel hammers or chisels, no pulleys and no horse drawn wheeled vehicles. The builders had to quarry the blocks with stone hammers and haul them using ropes, wooden sleds and manpower.
---Will Hart---

 

[Asclepias]

The fact that they can't get hundreds of thousands of people that it takes to actually build a pyramid to commit to 20 years of working in a desert does not mean that it can't be done, it just means no one wants to do it.

Maybe you are not reading all of my response. The Japanese tried to build a smaller one (60ft in height) to scale and failed even cheating using modern transportation and stone cutting methods. What part of someone did attempt to do it are you missing?

Also please explain how they built the pyramid facing exact magnetic North Pole without even having a compass? The compass was not invented for multiple centuries after the Egyptian civilization was gone.

Sun compasses have been around for a very, very long time.


How It Works: In A Nutshell

Can they can detect magnetic north? Not sure about if they can or not. I've never heard of one to be truthful.

 

[westwall]

Maybe you are not reading all of my response. The Japanese tried to build a smaller one (60ft in height) to scale and failed even cheating using modern transportation and stone cutting methods. What part of someone did attempt to do it are you missing?

Also please explain how they built the pyramid facing exact magnetic North Pole without even having a compass? The compass was not invented for multiple centuries after the Egyptian civilization was gone.

Sun compasses have been around for a very, very long time.


How It Works: In A Nutshell

Can they can detect magnetic north? Not sure about if they can or not.

Don't need too. Magnetic north wanders around all the time anyway. It is not a fixed point and never has been. If the pyramid points to magnetic north it is by accident. The geographical north pole can be determined with a sun compass and mathematics. Eratosthanese did it before the time of Christ.

 

[Asclepias]

Sun compasses have been around for a very, very long time.


How It Works: In A Nutshell

Can they can detect magnetic north? Not sure about if they can or not.

Don't need too. Magnetic north wanders around all the time anyway. It is not a fixed point and never has been. If the pyramid points to magnetic north it is by accident. The geographical north pole can be determined with a sun compass and mathematics. Eratosthanese did it before the time of Christ.

Magnetic north at the time the pyramid was built. Just checked out the link and recognized it as a method we used in the military for survival. I dont recall it being called a sun compass though.

 

[flacaltenn]

Its been proven you are wrong. Know one knows exactly what they knew. If they did they could duplicate their feats using their same methods they claim to know about. They cant. Can you explain that fact vs your illogical perception?

The fact that they can't get hundreds of thousands of people that it takes to actually build a pyramid to commit to 20 years of working in a desert does not mean that it can't be done, it just means no one wants to do it.

Maybe you are not reading all of my response. The Japanese tried to build a smaller one (60ft in height) to scale and failed even cheating using modern transportation and stone cutting methods. What part of someone did attempt to do it are you missing?

Also please explain how they built the pyramid facing exact magnetic North Pole without even having a compass? The compass was not invented for multiple centuries after the Egyptian civilization was gone.

Uhhhh.. There's a star called Polaris.. It is north? Might be easy to verify if the surveying is off by the historical precession of the star.
Remember -- these dudes didn't have cable or broadband.. Reading the sky was their best approximation to cinema.

Finding layout in momuments resembling star patterns would be universal among cultures.

 

[Unkotare]

Mainstream science maintains that Stone Age people built the pyramids and that the stones were rolled across the Egyptian desert on logs. I have stood on the sands of Egypt. Anything that heavy would not roll on a log across the desert. The logs and some of the stone would sink into the sand. .

You realize the climate of the area wasn't exactly the same back then, right? Historians and archaeologists may have it wrong, but the sand isn't necessarily conclusive evidence of that.

 

[Unkotare]

It's as if prior civilizations had a disregard for gravity

Yeah I can do that with some stone tools too!

That's from Baalbek, Lebanon. The stones on top are Roman and were built on orders from Augustus. The platform the sit upon, the Trilithlon are inconceivably large and look far more weathered than the Roman stones, locals say they date back to the time of Adam and Eve.

What prior civilization build that platform?

I've often thought that all the palimpsests of ancient sites must greatly complicate the work of archaeologists. Fascinating stuff though.

 

[Asclepias]

Mainstream science maintains that Stone Age people built the pyramids and that the stones were rolled across the Egyptian desert on logs. I have stood on the sands of Egypt. Anything that heavy would not roll on a log across the desert. The logs and some of the stone would sink into the sand. .

You realize the climate of the area wasn't exactly the same back then, right? Historians and archaeologists may have it wrong, but the sand isn't necessarily conclusive evidence of that.

You should put the little dog back up as an avatar. Youre just like a little dog nipping at someones heels.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Actually there is some compelling evidence that the pyramids of Giza match up EXTREMELY well with how Orions Belt looked 4500 years ago. Why no one knows but the evidence is there.

There are MANY anomalies around the world that make me believe that there was a more ancient civilization that was lost. The 3000 year old Nimrud Lense, the aforementioned Antikythera Mechanism, the Harappa culture of India, the city of Nan Madol, built on basalt blocks weighing up to 50 tons! Then of course you have the Stone Age tunnels built throughout Europe...12,000 years old..and still extant!

Puma Punku is the city pictured in your Inca photo but the Inca said it predated them.
The stones bear no chisel marks and the city was a modern city with operational sewage and water systems.

The Baalbeck stones are the largest worked stones in the world and weigh in at a colossal 1200 tons!

And then there's Gobleki Tepe a sophisticated temple complex that dates back to the end of the last ice age. Add to that the skulls that have been found of aurochs with bullet holes in them...dating back thousands of years ago....

No, man has been around and sophisticated for a very, very long time

There is also compelling evidence that people who work in retail are better at handstands than people who don't and that and that people who eat the bottom of their muffin first want to know the sex of their baby.

Both of those facts show exactly how much your claim is worth.

Ahhhh, but here's the rub. I claimed nothing. I merely presented well known facts. It is you who are ignoring solid evidence of past civilizations that were more capable than they have been given credit for. My point is the world is vast and we know so very little about it. Anyone who willfully ignores factual data shouldn't be involved in a discussion like this in the first place, but those of us who actually WANT to learn more about mans ancient history should do so.

People like you said Troy was a fantasy. Just like them, you too are wrong. Time will tell us to what degree you are wrong.

I have no problem with giving them credit for their accomplishments, I just refuse to believe that aliens built the pyramids, or that they knew enough about the movement of the stars to predict what constellations would look like 4500 years later. The only reason we can do that is that we have the observations, and maps, that are that old so that we can compare them to what we see today.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

All you are doing is proving my theory that the ancients knew way more than supposedly modern man thinks they knew. Norte Dame probably would have been like pitching a tent for them. Again please point out why no has been able to duplicate building a pyramid like the Egyptians and the one at Teotihuacán? It's not for lack of trying. They just cant do it.

Which modern man are you talking about? Anyone who looks at history honestly knows exactly how much people knew back then, it isn't like stacking blocks together is hard. Most 2 year olds can do it.

Once again, untrue. We learn something new every year about what man knew in the ancient past. Just recently the known start date for the production of beer was pushed back over 5,000 years with discoveries made in Africa.

Anyone who thinks we know everything about the past is dreaming.

Did we not know they made beer?

Changing the date of, or even the origin of, something like fermenting alcohol is not a major new discovery.

 

[Unkotare]

So you have a link from the guys that cant figure out how it was done and I'm supposed to think its legit? If they could do it why haven't they been able to duplicate it? The last time the Japanese tried they met with massive failure even while cheating and using modern transportation. Seems like they would have at least had the pic as evidence. Unless you have a link for someone duplicating the feat of building a pyramid exactly like the ancients did I will just laugh at you. You obviously have never seen the pyramids up close.

They explained how it was done, and even proved it was possible by dragging a block of stone themselves.

By the way, did you notice they pointed out that an actual ramp built at the time the pyramids were built still exists?

They didnt prove anything except that they have a theory. So do the people that think aliens built it. Until they can build a pyramid to the tolerances that those were built without using machinery i have to call BS. Like I said you have to see the pyramids up close to appreciate how stupid and self serving their theories are.

You conspiracy nuts with your agendas are very defensive, aren't you sock?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Also please explain how they built the pyramid facing exact magnetic North Pole without even having a compass? The compass was not invented for multiple centuries after the Egyptian civilization was gone.

The magnetic North Pole has moved since the pyramids were built. It moves between 9 and 50 km every year, which means that, if the pyramids are actually aligned with magnetic north (they don't, by the way), it wasn't by design. As for aligning it with the actual nort pole, I could do the same thing with two sticks and a few hours of observation when I was in 5th grade. I would assume the Egyptians were at least as educated as I was then because I actually used a method that was copied from their technique.

 

[Unkotare]

Mainstream science maintains that Stone Age people built the pyramids and that the stones were rolled across the Egyptian desert on logs. I have stood on the sands of Egypt. Anything that heavy would not roll on a log across the desert. The logs and some of the stone would sink into the sand. .

You realize the climate of the area wasn't exactly the same back then, right? Historians and archaeologists may have it wrong, but the sand isn't necessarily conclusive evidence of that.

You should put the little dog back up as an avatar. Youre just like a little dog nipping at someones heels.

I don't have a little dog. Maybe you should put up a picture of a cat, since you're such a pussy.

 

[Asclepias]

There is also compelling evidence that people who work in retail are better at handstands than people who don't and that and that people who eat the bottom of their muffin first want to know the sex of their baby.

Both of those facts show exactly how much your claim is worth.

Ahhhh, but here's the rub. I claimed nothing. I merely presented well known facts. It is you who are ignoring solid evidence of past civilizations that were more capable than they have been given credit for. My point is the world is vast and we know so very little about it. Anyone who willfully ignores factual data shouldn't be involved in a discussion like this in the first place, but those of us who actually WANT to learn more about mans ancient history should do so.

People like you said Troy was a fantasy. Just like them, you too are wrong. Time will tell us to what degree you are wrong.

I have no problem with giving them credit for their accomplishments, I just refuse to believe that aliens built the pyramids, or that they knew enough about the movement of the stars to predict what constellations would look like 4500 years later. The only reason we can do that is that we have the observations, and maps, that are that old so that we can compare them to what we see today.

I dont think anyone on this thread has claimed aliens did it. You refuse to believe that the ancients had a more advanced knowledge of engineering because you suffer from the same ailment the scholars do. IcantadmitIdontknowhowitis. Thats the big problem and point of this thread. You have to admit you don't know in order to be open enough to find out how it was done.

 

[Asclepias]

You realize the climate of the area wasn't exactly the same back then, right? Historians and archaeologists may have it wrong, but the sand isn't necessarily conclusive evidence of that.

You should put the little dog back up as an avatar. Youre just like a little dog nipping at someones heels.

I don't have a little dog. Maybe you should put up a picture of a cat, since you're such a pussy.

Never had a cat. You did have a cute,fluffy, little, white dog. I think he matched your temperament perfectly. Soft but nippy.

 

[Unkotare]

It's fair to speculate that ancient civilizations may have used techniques and calculations that we don't fully appreciate today, but space aliens? That's just fruit loop nonsense.

 

[Unkotare]

You should put the little dog back up as an avatar. Youre just like a little dog nipping at someones heels.

I don't have a little dog. Maybe you should put up a picture of a cat, since you're such a pussy.

Never had a cat. You did have a cute,fluffy, little, white dog. I think he matched your temperament perfectly. Soft but nippy.

My dog is neither "little" nor "nippy." He is cute and fluffy though. Don't start down the road of expressing an unnatural interest in him. Just don't. You've made yourself look bad enough around here already.