Holding the middle class hostage

[TakeAStepBack]

The Messiah is in a little trouble here, the CBO, and host of others have run the numbers, guess what, the only solution is to expand the tax base, which includes those earning $48,000 plus, other wise known as an across the board tax increase which will have a major impact on consumer based economies. The dog will continue to chase it's tail because he has no other choice.

But thirty years off flat wages hasn't hurt our consumer based economics?
Who determines wages?
Below is a chart that illustrated exactly how flat wages have been in Real Dollars (constant 1982 dollars).
As noted, there is a line tracking nominal wages, which are wages that do not include any inflation. The second line is wages in Real Dollars (constant 1982-1984 dollars), which include all inflation. Real Dollars are the format the Department of Labor has used for decades to measure real wage growth.
If one needs more information regarding Real Dollars go to: Historical Income Tables - Current versus Constant (or Real) Dollars - U.S Census Bureau
Again, who determines wages?

Federal minimum wage laws. Which warp labor values and product prices.

 

[kiwiman127]

The 'fiscal cliff' has an upside, even though it will ruin Obama's second term agenda.


oh wait


That is an upside as well.

If we go over the cliff, the majority of Americans will blame John Boehner, not Obama.

.

That is correct, the GOP will be blamed.

Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP
Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP

Yet our friends from the far right don't want to negotiate a compromise, they just want the US to go over the fiscal cliff. These folks must want more unemployment, more business failures, higher taxes and see their own party fail big time in the eyes of Americans.
That's very strange reasoning, kinda suicidal if you ask me. I would normally call such thinking "party over country", but not in this case as the GOP would truly be hurt by the actions some of our posters are calling for.
So I ask them, who benefits? What drives them to think this way? Are they nuts?

 

[SniperFire]

'Sequestration, automatic budget reduction, was placed into the 2011 Budget Control Act as a threat to spur the budget ‘super committee’ into action. The super committee failed to reach a consensus, and so budget cuts between 8.5 and 10 percent for FY2013 are slated for January 2, 2013 should Congress fail to pass a budget resolution in time.'

Works for me!

It is why the Repubicans were re-elected, afterall~

 

[g5000]

That is correct, the GOP will be blamed.

Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP
Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP

From the link:

If lawmakers fail to reach a deal, 53 percent said Republicans in Congress will bear responsibility, compared with 29 percent who said Obama will be at fault and 10 percent who chose both sides.

Boehner better look at those odds real hard. Mid terms are a lot closer than they look.


.

 

[SniperFire]

The 'fiscal cliff' has an upside, even though it will ruin Obama's second term agenda.


oh wait


That is an upside as well.

If we go over the cliff, the majority of Americans will blame John Boehner, not Obama.

.

That is correct, the GOP will be blamed.

Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP
Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP

Yet our friends from the far right don't want to negotiate a compromise or just want the US to go over the fiscal cliff. These folks must want more unemployment, more business failures, higher taxes and see their own party fail big time in the eyes of Americans.
That's very strange reasoning, kinda suicidal if you ask me. I would normally call such thinking "party over country", but not in this case as the GOP would truly be hurt by the actions some of our posters are calling for.
So I ask them, who benefits? What drives them to think this way? Are they nuts?

Fortunately, The People's House is represented by voting districts, and they have re-elected the Tea Party types to fix Obama's chronic trillion dollar deficits, one way or the other.


Thank goodness redistricting makes them untouchable until long after Owebama is gone!

 

[emilynghiem]

People tend to forget that there are no votes in the House to overturn the Compromise of 2011, which the Tea Party graciously granted Obama based on his promise to put together a Commission to solve the problem if Congress could not.

Obama failed pathetically, and simply ignored the Commission findings and started campaigning for re-election.

If he really thinks Tea Party Republicans are going to bend over again he does not understand the dynamic here.

He basically chastised the GOP to reinvent themselves. There is enough mobilization going on across states to set up their OWN commission to put solutions together instead of waiting on Congress. I would include setting up requirements for "earned amnesty" where people or companies that committed crimes or corruption at taxpayer expense, including violating immigration or labor laws, pay restitution back to the people or states to fund health care, education and other reforms on local levels with accountability; and take this burden off federal govt to start reversing the huge backlog and bureaucracy.

I believe the GOP could and should unite the Black leadership (left and right, conservative and liberal) and the Latino communities (as well as the women leaders on issues of restitution for rape instead of being political victims to push party agenda) to form their OWN commissions to solve problems and put forth their own solutions. Then hand these "mandates" to the govt, not vice versa. The best defense is a good offense. Go for it.

P.S. If there is a huge gap in time between when the debts/damages owed to taxpayers can be paid off (either by the wrongdoers or by citizens who chose to lend or buy shares in the corrective programs and property where the reforms will be implemented) then there are ways of issuing local currency to represent the exchange of labor, so that the amounts owed to the public can be assessed and distributed by credit or by currency to manage the creation of jobs in whatever restoration work is involved in govt reform projects, including credits for education or student loans. For example, law schools can be involved in the research and negotiations to collect tax fraud, insurance fraud, veteran benefits fraud, etc. on behalf of taxpayers. Medical programs can be expanded to serve in providing health and social services, developed using resources seized as restitution from drug or human trafficking. And sweatshop factories and prisons can be converted into schools and teaching hospitals to treat the ill, especially detaining criminally ill people instead of letting them run free to cost more to the public by threats or damages to people, property and health and safety.

 

[auditor0007]

The Messiah is in a little trouble here, the CBO, and host of others have run the numbers, guess what, the only solution is to expand the tax base, which includes those earning $48,000 plus, other wise known as an across the board tax increase which will have a major impact on consumer based economies. The dog will continue to chase it's tail because he has no other choice.

Of course. They have to let the tax cuts expire for everyone.

There aren't enough rich out there. The revenue is in the middle class.

Of course Those Clowns in Congress will spend all that new revenue just as quickly as they get it.

If anyone is looking for any meaningful spending cuts don't hold your breath.

There is no doubt that taxes need to go up for everyone. The point is that the highest income earners can afford to get their tax increase a little sooner than the rest of Americans. Once the economy starts picking up, then taxes can go up on everyone. BTW, we don't need to raise taxes a lot; going back to the rates under Clinton should be satisfactory, because the tax base will increase as Americans go back to work. And as many unemployed go back to work, they will no longer need unemployment, food stamps, and many other welfare payments they are currently receiving. This will help reduce spending without cutting anything.

Getting the economy rolling again, which it will no matter what Washington does, will resolve most of our fiscal issues, except for the massive future growth of SS and Medicare, especially Medicare spending. Those programs must be addressed. Everyone has different ideas as to how we can cut long term costs, but that is something we will truly have to debate. Some will prefer to just raise taxes to cover the costs, but that probably is not workable as the cost increases will just be too great. The most likely solution or part of the solution will be to raise the retirement age. I have supported this for some time, but it will take more debate, and we will probably be forced into it out of necessity before something is actually done.

 

[cutter]

Everyone knows we need to cut the budget. Our current spending is not sustainable. No one wants to decide what cut's to make. Let's go over tne cliff and those choices will be made for us. Sequestration is the answer to piss poor politicians.

No one in the country wants to spend more, but allocating spending to the right places can make all the difference.

Also, cutting back on spending isn't enough, you need to increase revenue, and government revenue is heavily based on taxes.

Cutting taxes is pretty much = to cutting revenue.

The progressives seem like they don't want to increase employment. You will increase revnue far more if you increase the base. You won't create more jobs by taking more from the job creators. Increasing the base if the way to increase income.

 

[Photonic]

If we go over the cliff, the majority of Americans will blame John Boehner, not Obama.

.

That is correct, the GOP will be blamed.

Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP
Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP

Yet our friends from the far right don't want to negotiate a compromise or just want the US to go over the fiscal cliff. These folks must want more unemployment, more business failures, higher taxes and see their own party fail big time in the eyes of Americans.
That's very strange reasoning, kinda suicidal if you ask me. I would normally call such thinking "party over country", but not in this case as the GOP would truly be hurt by the actions some of our posters are calling for.
So I ask them, who benefits? What drives them to think this way? Are they nuts?

Fortunately, The People's House is represented by voting districts, and they have re-elected the Tea Party types to fix Obama's chronic trillion dollar deficits, one way or the other.


Thank goodness redistricting makes them untouchable until long after Owebama is gone!

They kept the house because of redistricting. Not necessarily because they got more votes.

 

[SniperFire]

Everyone knows we need to cut the budget. Our current spending is not sustainable. No one wants to decide what cut's to make. Let's go over tne cliff and those choices will be made for us. Sequestration is the answer to piss poor politicians.

No one in the country wants to spend more, but allocating spending to the right places can make all the difference.

Also, cutting back on spending isn't enough, you need to increase revenue, and government revenue is heavily based on taxes.

Cutting taxes is pretty much = to cutting revenue.

Your average Democrat couldn't give a fuck about how much is being spent.

 

[Photonic]

Everyone knows we need to cut the budget. Our current spending is not sustainable. No one wants to decide what cut's to make. Let's go over tne cliff and those choices will be made for us. Sequestration is the answer to piss poor politicians.

No one in the country wants to spend more, but allocating spending to the right places can make all the difference.

Also, cutting back on spending isn't enough, you need to increase revenue, and government revenue is heavily based on taxes.

Cutting taxes is pretty much = to cutting revenue.

Your average Democrat couldn't give a fuck about how much is being spent.

Prove it.

 

[SniperFire]

That is correct, the GOP will be blamed.

Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP
Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP

Yet our friends from the far right don't want to negotiate a compromise or just want the US to go over the fiscal cliff. These folks must want more unemployment, more business failures, higher taxes and see their own party fail big time in the eyes of Americans.
That's very strange reasoning, kinda suicidal if you ask me. I would normally call such thinking "party over country", but not in this case as the GOP would truly be hurt by the actions some of our posters are calling for.
So I ask them, who benefits? What drives them to think this way? Are they nuts?

Fortunately, The People's House is represented by voting districts, and they have re-elected the Tea Party types to fix Obama's chronic trillion dollar deficits, one way or the other.


Thank goodness redistricting makes them untouchable until long after Owebama is gone!

They kept the house because of redistricting. Not necessarily because they got more votes.

They had the honor of redistricting because they won more votes in '10.

Obama has the honor of being POTUS because he won more votes in '12.

 

[SniperFire]

No one in the country wants to spend more, but allocating spending to the right places can make all the difference.

Also, cutting back on spending isn't enough, you need to increase revenue, and government revenue is heavily based on taxes.

Cutting taxes is pretty much = to cutting revenue.

Your average Democrat couldn't give a fuck about how much is being spent.

Prove it.

[youtube]Ax-2i71bqGw[/youtube]


But then again, you made the asinine claim that nobody in the county wants to spend more.



Prove your claim.

 

[kiwiman127]

If we go over the cliff, the majority of Americans will blame John Boehner, not Obama.

.

That is correct, the GOP will be blamed.

Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP
Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP

Yet our friends from the far right don't want to negotiate a compromise or just want the US to go over the fiscal cliff. These folks must want more unemployment, more business failures, higher taxes and see their own party fail big time in the eyes of Americans.
That's very strange reasoning, kinda suicidal if you ask me. I would normally call such thinking "party over country", but not in this case as the GOP would truly be hurt by the actions some of our posters are calling for.
So I ask them, who benefits? What drives them to think this way? Are they nuts?

Fortunately, The People's House is represented by voting districts, and they have re-elected the Tea Party types to fix Obama's chronic trillion dollar deficits, one way or the other.


Thank goodness redistricting makes them untouchable until long after Owebama is gone!

The GOP won't be representing "The People" because every one will feel the pain of going over the fiscal cliff. Do you actually think they'll still love the GOP after sticks it to them? What a genius!

 

[Photonic]

Your average Democrat couldn't give a fuck about how much is being spent.

Prove it.

[youtube]Ax-2i71bqGw[/youtube]


But then again, you made the asinine claim that nobody in the county wants to spend more.



Prove your claim.

HAMEL: Voters want a president who will rein in spending - Washington Times

Anyways, Obamaphone seems to be your favorite talking point. So can you give me even one example of someone actually getting a phone for voting for Obama?

 

[SniperFire]

That is correct, the GOP will be blamed.

Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP
Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com Pew Poll: Most Say US Will Go Over Fiscal Cliff, Blame GOP

Yet our friends from the far right don't want to negotiate a compromise or just want the US to go over the fiscal cliff. These folks must want more unemployment, more business failures, higher taxes and see their own party fail big time in the eyes of Americans.
That's very strange reasoning, kinda suicidal if you ask me. I would normally call such thinking "party over country", but not in this case as the GOP would truly be hurt by the actions some of our posters are calling for.
So I ask them, who benefits? What drives them to think this way? Are they nuts?

Fortunately, The People's House is represented by voting districts, and they have re-elected the Tea Party types to fix Obama's chronic trillion dollar deficits, one way or the other.


Thank goodness redistricting makes them untouchable until long after Owebama is gone!

The GOP won't be representing "The People" because every one will feel the pain of going over the fiscal cliff. Do you actually think they'll still love the GOP after sticks it to them? What a genius!

Our responsibility constituency really does not think like your freeloader constituency.

Besides, you want us to pay, either way.

 

[SniperFire]

Prove it.

[youtube]Ax-2i71bqGw[/youtube]


But then again, you made the asinine claim that nobody in the county wants to spend more.



Prove your claim.

HAMEL: Voters want a president who will rein in spending - Washington Times

Anyways, Obamaphone seems to be your favorite talking point. So can you give me even one example of someone actually getting a phone for voting for Obama?

You made the asinine claim that nobody in the county wants to spend more.

Prove your claim.

 

[Photonic]

[youtube]Ax-2i71bqGw[/youtube]


But then again, you made the asinine claim that nobody in the county wants to spend more.



Prove your claim.

HAMEL: Voters want a president who will rein in spending - Washington Times

Anyways, Obamaphone seems to be your favorite talking point. So can you give me even one example of someone actually getting a phone for voting for Obama?

You made the asinine claim that nobody in the county wants to spend more.

Prove your claim.

Pathetic, you ignore my post and only repeat the question because you can't answer mine.

 

[kiwiman127]

Fortunately, The People's House is represented by voting districts, and they have re-elected the Tea Party types to fix Obama's chronic trillion dollar deficits, one way or the other.


Thank goodness redistricting makes them untouchable until long after Owebama is gone!

The GOP won't be representing "The People" because every one will feel the pain of going over the fiscal cliff. Do you actually think they'll still love the GOP after sticks it to them? What a genius!

Our responsibility constituency really does not think like your freeloader constituency.

Besides, you want us to pay, either way.

My "freeloader constituency"? There you go again, assuming,,again. Your "responsibility constituency" are those who put party over country and you even go further by putting your warped values over your own party.
But I guess that's what happens when one doesn't work for a living.

 

[SniperFire]

The GOP won't be representing "The People" because every one will feel the pain of going over the fiscal cliff. Do you actually think they'll still love the GOP after sticks it to them? What a genius!

Our responsibility constituency really does not think like your freeloader constituency.

Besides, you want us to pay, either way.

My "freeloader constituency"? There you go again, assuming,,again. Your "responsibility constituency" are those who put party over country and you even go further by putting your warped values over your own party.
But I guess that's what happens when one doesn't work for a living.

By the butthurt, I am pretty sure my description of your constituency was dead on.

Hell, half of your fellow Obamites gloat about it!

LOL