Hobby Lobby Invested in Abortion and Contraception Products

[Kosh]

Just take the mantra of the right: Morals dont matter when you can make money

More racist far left Obama drone propaganda!

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

 

[Dot Com]

profit over ideology is the eXtreme SOCON mantra it would appear

 

[TemplarKormac]

Straight from Mother Jones. I don't think so. Those companies they invested in don't specialize in just making abortifacients. They make a wide array of drugs that the Hobby Lobby plan covers.

Thread fail. Citing Mother Jones and touting an opinion piece was your first mistake.

So its OK to invest in a company that sells things you find morally repugnant - as long as they sell other stuff, to.


Got it.

So you think it's okay to jump to conclusions?

And what do I find morally repugnant again?

 

[TooTall]

Those companies are in the Savings Incentive and Profit Sharing Plan for Employees of the Hobby Lobby Group.



That tells me that the employees retirement plans are invested in a number of pharmas that make thousands of prescription and non-prescription drugs, many of which save thousands of lives.

It is a stretch to say that only the owners profit, and the owners don’t pick and choose the companies in a retirement plan. The investment firm that manages the fund does.

I call this BS.

And how is that different from how health insurance benefits are decided? It is between the employee and the insurer. If the employee wants contraceptives...he or she should be able to get them. The contract is between the employee and the insurance company.....just like the 401k contract is between the fund and the employee. Employer contributions are compensation in lieu of salary.

The idea that the employer is "providing" anything beyond a pool of customers for the insurance company is a joke.

Profit, losses, 401(k)s, that's not the topic. These Hobby Lobotomists were outed for their hypocrisy in April of this year and no one was paying attention until now.

But it does come down to money, and the Greens must be saving a ton on insurance plans when they cut out birth control. That's the BOTTOM LINE.

Next thing these assholes will say is getting cancer is against their religion.

Who cut out birth control?

 

[Faun]

The Form 5500 statement in the link shows that the net assets for Hobby Lobby employee benefits increased from about $90 million in 2011 to $108 million in 2012.

The increase was primarily due to the increased value of assets at mutual funds; e.g. American Group, Vanguard Funds, etc.

The point of investing in these funds is to allow the fund managers to choose the portfolio of individual stocks. Hobby Lobby doesn't pick these. This reduces the costs of the investments as well as maximizes the ROI.

Expecting Hobby Lobby (or almost every corporation) to weigh each investment themselves is a fantasy fueled by the butt-hurt-free-cheese-eating--nanny-state-whiny whiners that expect to incite Public Outrage among only the least sophisticated of Americans.

BTW, thanks for the link;

Hobby Lobby appears to have matched employee contributions.

You can make up all the excuses you want, but I would expect that the people who battle a provision in ObamaCare all the way to the US Supreme Court over their religious beliefs would be sincere enough in their religious beliefs to not profit off of the very product they fought so hard to reject. I agree with the court's decision but I'm disappointed to learn that Green's are not as concerned about birth control products as they led everyone to believe.

What do you want?
They are paying for 16 of the 20 required by the new Health Care Law.

What I want is sincerity. Here's the problem that I see ... there are people against ObamaCare, which they have every right to feel, but they don't have the right to impose on others who are in favor of ObamaCare. And then there are people who genuinely have grievances based on religious beliefs, which they have the Constitutional right to have, as it appeared for Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby courageously fought to defend those religious beliefs and they should be applauded for their efforts -- until we learn their position was feigned as they actually belong in that first group of people and that they used their religion as a tool to chip away at ObamaCare when they really don't care about birth control products as they led everyone to believe. Which brings us to the crux of the problem that I see -- if people are going to fake religious concerns to repeal laws (or in this case, part of a law), then there really is no limit to how far they will go. If they are willing to use their religion as a tool of legislative destruction, then they will feign religious excuses for getting out of ObamaCare for every reason imaginable. I had respect for the Green's until I learned it was all a ruse.

 

[Peach]

You can make up all the excuses you want, but I would expect that the people who battle a provision in ObamaCare all the way to the US Supreme Court over their religious beliefs would be sincere enough in their religious beliefs to not profit off of the very product they fought so hard to reject. I agree with the court's decision but I'm disappointed to learn that Green's are not as concerned about birth control products as they led everyone to believe.

What do you want?
They are paying for 16 of the 20 required by the new Health Care Law.

What I want is sincerity. Here's the problem that I see ... there are people against ObamaCare, which they have every right to feel, but they don't have the right to impose on others who are in favor of ObamaCare. And then there are people who genuinely have grievances based on religious beliefs, which they have the Constitutional right to have, as it appeared for Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby courageously fought to defend those religious beliefs and they should be applauded for their efforts -- until we learn their position was feigned as they actually belong in that first group of people and that they used their religion as a tool to chip away at ObamaCare when they really don't care about birth control products as they led everyone to believe. Which brings us to the crux of the problem that I see -- if people are going to fake religious concerns to repeal laws (or in this case, part of a law), then there really is no limit to how far they will go. If they are willing to use their religion as a tool of legislative destruction, then they will feign religious excuses for getting out of ObamaCare for every reason imaginable. I had respect for the Green's until I learned it was all a ruse.

Hobby Lobby did not offer birth control that destroyed zygotes, not inconsistant with their beliefs. If life begins with conception, and there are few arguments against that fact, many forms of birth control kill. As for their 401ks, many questions remain.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

.... based on public filings by Hobby Lobby ...

Savings Incentive and Profit Sharing Plan for Employees of the Hobby Lobby Group

The Form 5500 statement in the link shows that the net assets for Hobby Lobby employee benefits increased from about $90 million in 2011 to $108 million in 2012.

The increase was primarily due to the increased value of assets at mutual funds; e.g. American Group, Vanguard Funds, etc.

The point of investing in these funds is to allow the fund managers to choose the portfolio of individual stocks. Hobby Lobby doesn't pick these. This reduces the costs of the investments as well as maximizes the ROI.

Expecting Hobby Lobby (or almost every corporation) to weigh each investment themselves is a fantasy fueled by the butt-hurt-free-cheese-eating--nanny-state-whiny whiners that expect to incite Public Outrage among only the least sophisticated of Americans.

BTW, thanks for the link;

Hobby Lobby appears to have matched employee contributions.

You can make up all the excuses you want, but I would expect that the people who battle a provision in ObamaCare all the way to the US Supreme Court over their religious beliefs would be sincere enough in their religious beliefs to not profit off of the very product they fought so hard to reject. I agree with the court's decision but I'm disappointed to learn that Green's are not as concerned about birth control products as they led everyone to believe.

I don't agree with SCOTUS as we have enough prejudice in the job market as it is. And the Greens are a flaming bunch of hypocrites who put a phony southern Baptist face to their greed.

 

[Erand7899]

Straight from Mother Jones. I don't think so. Those companies they invested in don't specialize in just making abortifacients. They make a wide array of drugs that the Hobby Lobby plan covers.

Thread fail. Citing Mother Jones and touting an opinion piece was your first mistakes.

It's quoted and verified by Forbes. ANd of course you didn't click on the link to the IRS returns either, now did you?

They knew what those pharmas were making and they kept the stock anyway.

Post fail, bub.

Isn't ignorance wonderful? What is quoted and verified by Forbes, is absolutely true, but what they made you believe is absolutely false. Hobby Lobby 401K plans do not belong to hobby lobby, they belong to the individual employees. Which means, in short, that your entire argument is pure BS.

The people that administer the Hobby Lobby employees' 401K retirement plans have a fiduciary duty to offer the best investment options possible for employees to choose from. Nor, does Hobby Lobby management attempt to impose their religious values on their employees' investment choices in their individual retirement plans. Once the money is credited to the individual account, it belongs to the employee, and how that employee decides to invest that money is his/her business.

Don't you loons ever get tired of being played?

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

And how is that different from how health insurance benefits are decided? It is between the employee and the insurer. If the employee wants contraceptives...he or she should be able to get them. The contract is between the employee and the insurance company.....just like the 401k contract is between the fund and the employee. Employer contributions are compensation in lieu of salary.

The idea that the employer is "providing" anything beyond a pool of customers for the insurance company is a joke.

Profit, losses, 401(k)s, that's not the topic. These Hobby Lobotomists were outed for their hypocrisy in April of this year and no one was paying attention until now.

But it does come down to money, and the Greens must be saving a ton on insurance plans when they cut out birth control. That's the BOTTOM LINE.

Next thing these assholes will say is getting cancer is against their religion.

Who cut out birth control?

??? The far right wingnuts are trying to. So if they want to control a woman's life, let them pay for all the unwanted children that they don't give a flying fuck about now.

It's stupidity on steroids.

 

[Faun]

What do you want?
They are paying for 16 of the 20 required by the new Health Care Law.

What I want is sincerity. Here's the problem that I see ... there are people against ObamaCare, which they have every right to feel, but they don't have the right to impose on others who are in favor of ObamaCare. And then there are people who genuinely have grievances based on religious beliefs, which they have the Constitutional right to have, as it appeared for Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby courageously fought to defend those religious beliefs and they should be applauded for their efforts -- until we learn their position was feigned as they actually belong in that first group of people and that they used their religion as a tool to chip away at ObamaCare when they really don't care about birth control products as they led everyone to believe. Which brings us to the crux of the problem that I see -- if people are going to fake religious concerns to repeal laws (or in this case, part of a law), then there really is no limit to how far they will go. If they are willing to use their religion as a tool of legislative destruction, then they will feign religious excuses for getting out of ObamaCare for every reason imaginable. I had respect for the Green's until I learned it was all a ruse.

Hobby Lobby did not offer birth control that destroyed zygotes, not inconsistant with their beliefs. If life begins with conception, and there are few arguments against that fact, many forms of birth control kill. As for their 401ks, many questions remain.

They made money off of it and they made money for their employees off of it. Something I would expect someone with genuine religious beliefs would abhor. It reveals they're disingenuous about the suit they brought forth.

If they make money off of birth control products for their employees then they shouldn't be exempt for providing those same products for their employees, via their insurance.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Straight from Mother Jones. I don't think so. Those companies they invested in don't specialize in just making abortifacients. They make a wide array of drugs that the Hobby Lobby plan covers.

Thread fail. Citing Mother Jones and touting an opinion piece was your first mistakes.

It's quoted and verified by Forbes. ANd of course you didn't click on the link to the IRS returns either, now did you?

They knew what those pharmas were making and they kept the stock anyway.

Post fail, bub.

Isn't ignorance wonderful? What is quoted and verified by Forbes, is absolutely true, but what they made you believe is absolutely false. Hobby Lobby 401K plans do not belong to hobby lobby, they belong to the individual employees. Which means, in short, that your entire argument is pure BS.

The people that administer the Hobby Lobby employees' 401K retirement plans have a fiduciary duty to offer the best investment options possible for employees to choose from. Nor, does Hobby Lobby management attempt to impose their religious values on their employees' investment choices in their individual retirement plans. Once the money is credited to the individual account, it belongs to the employee, and how that employee decides to invest that money is his/her business.

Don't you loons ever get tired of being played?

Now who might that be?

Was Hobby Lobby forced into accepting a plan that was not of their choosing?

Don't you believe company owners should take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for their corporate decisions?

I'll be awaiting your answer as to who made the executive decision to set up their employee plans.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Just take the mantra of the right: Morals dont matter when you can make money

Between WalMart, Citibank, Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan, the rest of them just fell in line with that corrupt (im)moral code.

Henry Ford said he wanted his employees to also be his customers. He would be considered a communist by these rightwing idiots today, and especially on this board.

 

[Erand7899]

As I noted, though you provided facts, thank you. ( I am a 'nanny state whiney winger' one week, and a right wing extremist the next.)

Based on the statement, Hobby Lobby employees did pretty well between 2011 and 2012.

The ROR is much higher than had the investments been made in government bonds.

It's hard not to do well these days in the market. Is your point that it's ok to ignore your religious beliefs as long as it's profitable?

Did Hobby Lobby make the decision on what to invest in, or did the individual employees make that decision? Would you want Hobby Lobby management to impose their religious views on individual employee investment choices?

 

[thanatos144]

Hobby lobby isn't the ones investing money. Their employees are. Jesus you guys have no clue how this works

tapatalk post

 

[Faun]

Straight from Mother Jones. I don't think so. Those companies they invested in don't specialize in just making abortifacients. They make a wide array of drugs that the Hobby Lobby plan covers.

Thread fail. Citing Mother Jones and touting an opinion piece was your first mistakes.

It's quoted and verified by Forbes. ANd of course you didn't click on the link to the IRS returns either, now did you?

They knew what those pharmas were making and they kept the stock anyway.

Post fail, bub.

Isn't ignorance wonderful? What is quoted and verified by Forbes, is absolutely true, but what they made you believe is absolutely false. Hobby Lobby 401K plans do not belong to hobby lobby, they belong to the individual employees. Which means, in short, that your entire argument is pure BS.

The people that administer the Hobby Lobby employees' 401K retirement plans have a fiduciary duty to offer the best investment options possible for employees to choose from. Nor, does Hobby Lobby management attempt to impose their religious values on their employees' investment choices in their individual retirement plans. Once the money is credited to the individual account, it belongs to the employee, and how that employee decides to invest that money is his/her business.

Don't you loons ever get tired of being played?

Please. The account belongs to the individual but Hobby Lobby allowed the pharmaceutical company, which produces the birth control products they fought against offering their employees, to be among the choice of companies their employees can invest in. The message their is, we don't want to pay for our employees' birth control but we do want our employees to make money off of others who choose those birth control products. If their religious convictions were genuine, then they wouldn't allow their employees to invest in birth control products they claim goes against their religious beliefs.

 

[Faun]

Hobby lobby isn't the ones investing money. Their employees are. Jesus you guys have no clue how this works

tapatalk post

And Hobby Lobby wasn't the ones who would have used the birth control products. Their employees could have.

 

[thanatos144]

Hobby lobby isn't the ones investing money. Their employees are. Jesus you guys have no clue how this works

tapatalk post

And Hobby Lobby wasn't the ones who would have used the birth control products. Their employees could have.

No dummy just spending their money not the employees. ..

tapatalk post

 

[Faun]

Based on the statement, Hobby Lobby employees did pretty well between 2011 and 2012.

The ROR is much higher than had the investments been made in government bonds.

It's hard not to do well these days in the market. Is your point that it's ok to ignore your religious beliefs as long as it's profitable?

Did Hobby Lobby make the decision on what to invest in, or did the individual employees make that decision? Would you want Hobby Lobby management to impose their religious views on individual employee investment choices?

Hobby Lobby allowed it to be available to them. Since that's how they feel about birth control products, why not let them allow their employees the same choice to use those products as part of their healthcare?

Either they support birth control products or they don't. Either they're against birth control products or they're not.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Hobby lobby isn't the ones investing money. Their employees are. Jesus you guys have no clue how this works

tapatalk post

And Hobby Lobby wasn't the ones who would have used the birth control products. Their employees could have.

Their employees can also use their paycheck to pay for an abortion. Why is Hobby Lobby willing to fund abortions in that case?

 

[Faun]

Hobby lobby isn't the ones investing money. Their employees are. Jesus you guys have no clue how this works

tapatalk post

And Hobby Lobby wasn't the ones who would have used the birth control products. Their employees could have.

No dummy just spending their money not the employees. ..

tapatalk post

Then it's about saving money and not religious beliefs.