Hmmm...I thought churches didn't have to worry about performing gay marriages...what about this...

[Esmeralda]

I don't care what the city says. I don't care what you say. We're not going to perform gay marriage.... Period. Jail us. Attack us. Smear us. Whatever you want.

We have a right to run business. We have a right to our religion and beliefs. You don't have a say in the matter.

We're not doing it. Period. You'll have to jail millions of Christians across this country. We're not going away, and we're not going to follow your laws. Sucks to be you.

It's not a "church" Androw. It's a wedding chapel which is a business that marries people. IF gay marriage is legal there, then they are using discriminatory business practices which is illegal.

Don't care. I said that the first time, and I'll say it every time here after.

Church, business, hobby. It's mine. My hobby... my business.. my church. Not yours. You don't have a right to tell me what to do with it.

"well that law says..."

Don't care.

"but it's not a church..."

Don't care.

"but discrimination...."

I DO NOT CARE.

I have a religious view, and it's not up for debate. That's what freedom of religion means. I can believe the moon is full of hamsters, and Obama is an alien hamster controlling the government, if I so desire to have a such a view.

We are not going to do gay marriage, those of use who believe in the Biblical Christian faith. We not doing it. PERIOD.

Not doing it. PERIOD. Not up for debate, I don't care about your reasons. Not happening.

Well guess what Androw? Discrimination IS against the law. The LAW doesn't care if you don't care. What are you so frightened about? Don't worry, nobody with half a brain would want to join your exclusive little club of judgmental jerks. That is why your churches are losing parishioners. People are realizing that it is not "Godly" to treat other people like crap.

Um... actually my church is growing. So... apparently people are realizing that it IS Godly. lol
I'm not frightened at all!

If I was scared... then I'd be worried about your laws, and your courts, and your regulations and statutes and anti-discrimination rules.
If I was really worried, I'd be asking these laws be repealed. I haven't said that at all.

I'm not. I'm just telling you straight up, I'm not scared, not going to follow your laws, and you are not going to stop me. Make all the laws you wish. Not going to follow them. Oh well.

And I don't care if no one joins my "exclusive little club of judgmental jerks" or not. I don't live my life to please you. If you think I'm terrible..... ok. If you think I'm great.... ok. I'm good either way.

Now, I'm not intentionally trying to piss people off, but I'm also not going to squeeze myself into whatever mold you demand. I'm going to live out my faith. You can like it, or hate it, but you are not going to change it.

Don't care what laws you pass. Not going to follow them. Don't care what fines you give. I'm not going to pay them.

Nobody is asking you to squeeze into any mold. Just don't treat people like crap. They are no less "people" created by God than you are. You don't have to personally approve of another person or their lifestyle, but that doesn't give the right to discriminate against them either, when their actions are NOT hurting anyone else.

Yes, if you are a true Christian, you understand that we are all children under God, even the sinners. And, we are all sinners. How does it go? He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone. "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." ‎John 8:6 .

 

[Syriusly]

First of all- do you agree we are not speaking about a church being forced to marry anyone?

After we get past your original claim, I can destroy....I mean discuss your next one.

I couldn't care less if it's a church or not. Doesn't matter to me at all. If I bake wedding cakes, and a gay couple come in, I'm telling them no. I don't care what you think about "well that's a business", or "that's not a church". Your opinion on that doesn't matter to me in the slightest.

You are not going to force me to accommodate something that violates my religious views, whether it's a business of mine, or a church, or a hobby.

So I don't give a crap what you think it is.

Oh I thought you wanted a discussion.

Now I realize you just enjoy saying crap

The article you cited lied.

You don't care.

You complained about churches being forced to marry people- and no one is saying churches must marry people.

Just more crap from Conservatives.

No, I wanted you to tell me if the article was true, or false, and provide evidence.

Either the city officials did, or did not, tell them that they must marry gay couples. It's either true, or false. You claim they lied.

Ok. Please explain the following letter written to them from the City Attorney's office.
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/KnappCityAttorneyLetter.pdf

The letter makes it clear that if they are operating their Chapel as a for-profit business, that they are required to marry gay couples.

Was the letter from the Attorney's office a lie?

If the entire thing, every bit of evidence is a lie... then I respectfully accept your position. That's a heck of a lot of people that all lied, and only you on an internet forum have the truth.

I doubt they all lied, and only you are telling the truth.
.

Lets start off with the base line- which is the first headline you quoted- and which I called a lie

The PJ Tatler Idaho City Threatens to Jail Ministers for Not Performing Gay Weddings

That appears to be a lie- now I say appears because I can't claim any more knowledge than what has been published in the papers. But based upon what has been published- that headline is a lie.

Two Ministers Claim They Could Face 180 Years In Jail For Refusing To Do Gay Weddings


There is one major problem with all this outrage, according to city officials in Coeur d’Alene: The owners of the Hitching Post Wedding Chapel do not face arrest or fines or any other penalty for refusing to marry same-sex couples.

The lawsuit argues that Coeur d’Alene’s non-discrimination ordinance -- which was passed last year and bars businesses and public accommodations from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity -- will “unconstitutionally” force the Knapps to either “violate their religious convictions and ministerial vows” by performing same-sex weddings or face jail time and fines. According to the suit, the city has “privately and publicly threatened to apply” the ordinance to the Hitching Post.

However, according to city officials and the lawsuit itself, the Hitching Post filed papers with the Idaho Secretary of State identifying itself as a religious corporation on Oct. 6, the day before the 9th Circuit struck down Idaho’s ban. The city’s ordinance explicitly states that religious corporations are exempt from the law.

The lawsuit came as a surprise to city officials, who described conversations with the Knapps up until last week as “cordial.”

“We have never threatened them. We have never sent them a letter warning them. There was no ‘we’re going to throw you in jail’ kind of stuff. So we were mildly surprised, well, totally surprised by the lawsuit,” City Attorney Mike Gridley told The Huffington Post.

Moreover, while the lawsuit claims that the Knapps have already turned away multiple same-sex couples, Gridley said that the city had received no complaints about the Hitching Post and had no idea who these couples might be.

How did the Knapps come up with that jaw-dropping figure of 180 years? According to the lawsuit, the city ordinance sets forth fines up to $1,000 and jail time up to 180 days for every day of a violation. The Knapps' complaint reasons that they "risk going to jail for 180 years and being fined $365,000" if they refuse to marry one couple for one year.

Is that a real possibility? Gridley laughed. “That's not correct. Again,” he said.

“I want to make clear," said Gridley, "that the Hitching Post, or any other minister that I’m aware of, is not subject to our ordinance."

The Knapps declined to comment on the case.

So what actually happened?

1) The Knapps or their attorneys- asked the City whether or not they would be subject to the anti-discrimination ordinance.
2) The city responded that they believed that the Knapp's was a religious corporation and not subject to the ordinance but
3) The city said that business's are subject to the ordinance.
4) The city never threatened the Knapps with arrest or fines.
5) The Knapps or their attorneys initiated the issue with the City- not the other way around.

Not that any of this will matter but those are the facts that have been published.

Alright...... then why in the letter from the Attorney's office does it say:

"My office has responded to questions from your clients in the past and told them that, based on the facts presented and their corporate status at the time, they would likely be govemed by the anti-discrimination ordinance if a complaint was made against them"
n.

I said that the headlines were a lie- and then I showed evidence that the headlines were indeed a lie.

The City hasn't threatened the owners with arrest and fines.
The City hasn't had a complaint against this 'religious corporation'

The headlines were a lie.

This was a controversy ginned up by the Conservative Activists lawyers who filed the case- who I am sure feel exactly the same as you do.

I don't have a problem with what the lawyers have done- I am comfortable with using the Courts to challenge laws on Constitutional issues- just like same gender couples have used the courts to challenge laws keeping them from marrying.

But I do have a problem with Conservative publications lying- in order to stir up the Conservative base who will never bother to check the facts.

 

[Syriusly]

First of all- do you agree we are not speaking about a church being forced to marry anyone?

After we get past your original claim, I can destroy....I mean discuss your next one.

I couldn't care less if it's a church or not. Doesn't matter to me at all. If I bake wedding cakes, and a gay couple come in, I'm telling them no. I don't care what you think about "well that's a business", or "that's not a church". Your opinion on that doesn't matter to me in the slightest.

You are not going to force me to accommodate something that violates my religious views, whether it's a business of mine, or a church, or a hobby.

So I don't give a crap what you think it is.

Oh I thought you wanted a discussion.

Now I realize you just enjoy saying crap

The article you cited lied.

You don't care.

You complained about churches being forced to marry people- and no one is saying churches must marry people.

Just more crap from Conservatives.

No, I wanted you to tell me if the article was true, or false, and provide evidence.

Either the city officials did, or did not, tell them that they must marry gay couples. It's either true, or false. You claim they lied.

Ok. Please explain the following letter written to them from the City Attorney's office.
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/KnappCityAttorneyLetter.pdf

The letter makes it clear that if they are operating their Chapel as a for-profit business, that they are required to marry gay couples.

Was the letter from the Attorney's office a lie?

If the entire thing, every bit of evidence is a lie... then I respectfully accept your position. That's a heck of a lot of people that all lied, and only you on an internet forum have the truth.

I doubt they all lied, and only you are telling the truth.

As for 'more crap from conservatives'... oh no.... no no no. I'm far far worse than that. I'm a true Bible believing Christian. Conservatism is a political ideological belief system that encompasses dozens of topics, all of which I'd be more than willing to debate and discuss with you.

This.... is about true faith. It's not an abstract ideal for me. It's true worship of G-d in Heaven.

No, I'm not here to discuss my beliefs, or my religious views. I'm not here to debate practice of my faith, or the merits thereof.

No, I'm just here to TELL YOU what my faith is, and that I am going to practice it, with or without it being legal, or your approval.

I won't give my life for 'conservatism', but I most certainly will give my life for my faith. Allow me to make that crystal clear, in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. I will DIE over this issue. If you fine me, I won't pay the fine. If you fail me, I'll go gladly, but I won't follow your rules on this. When I get out of jail, I'll go right back to practicing my faith.

I will operate my church, run my business, and provide my services, to whomever I please, and refuse when it violates my faith. If you send me to prison for 20 years, when I get out, I'll resume my business, and still deny gay marriage, and there is nothing you will do to prevent it. I'll go back to prison for another 20 years, or the rest of my life. But I'm not going to follow this evil immoral law, no matter what.

And that.... is all there is to it.

First of all- do you agree we are not speaking about a church being forced to marry anyone?

After we get past your original claim, I can destroy....I mean discuss your next one.

I couldn't care less if it's a church or not. Doesn't matter to me at all. If I bake wedding cakes, and a gay couple come in, I'm telling them no. I don't care what you think about "well that's a business", or "that's not a church". Your opinion on that doesn't matter to me in the slightest.

You are not going to force me to accommodate something that violates my religious views, whether it's a business of mine, or a church, or a hobby.

So I don't give a crap what you think it is.

Oh I thought you wanted a discussion.

Now I realize you just enjoy saying crap

The article you cited lied.

You don't care.

You complained about churches being forced to marry people- and no one is saying churches must marry people.

Just more crap from Conservatives.

No, I wanted you to tell me if the article was true, or false, and provide evidence.

Either the city officials did, or did not, tell them that they must marry gay couples. It's either true, or false. You claim they lied.

Ok. Please explain the following letter written to them from the City Attorney's office.
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/KnappCityAttorneyLetter.pdf

The letter makes it clear that if they are operating their Chapel as a for-profit business, that they are required to marry gay couples.

Was the letter from the Attorney's office a lie?

If the entire thing, every bit of evidence is a lie... then I respectfully accept your position. That's a heck of a lot of people that all lied, and only you on an internet forum have the truth.

I doubt they all lied, and only you are telling the truth.

As for 'more crap from conservatives'... oh no.... no no no. I'm far far worse than that. I'm a true Bible believing Christian. Conservatism is a political ideological belief system that encompasses dozens of topics, all of which I'd be more than willing to debate and discuss with you.

This.... is about true faith. It's not an abstract ideal for me. It's true worship of G-d in Heaven.

No, I'm not here to discuss my beliefs, or my religious views. I'm not here to debate practice of my faith, or the merits thereof.

No, I'm just here to TELL YOU what my faith is, and that I am going to practice it, with or without it being legal, or your approval.

I won't give my life for 'conservatism', but I most certainly will give my life for my faith. Allow me to make that crystal clear, in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. I will DIE over this issue. If you fine me, I won't pay the fine. If you fail me, I'll go gladly, but I won't follow your rules on this. When I get out of jail, I'll go right back to practicing my faith.

I will operate my church, run my business, and provide my services, to whomever I please, and refuse when it violates my faith. If you send me to prison for 20 years, when I get out, I'll resume my business, and still deny gay marriage, and there is nothing you will do to prevent it. I'll go back to prison for another 20 years, or the rest of my life. But I'm not going to follow this evil immoral law, no matter what.

And that.... is all there is to it.

Who do you imagine is threatening you?

I never said anyone was threatening me. I was simply stating what my position, and what my intentions are, regardless of threat or not.

If no one threatens my faith values... Great. If everyone threatens... Great. I intend to live out my faith, regardless of anything else.

Okay let me state mine.

I don't care if the law tells me that I have to beat up and kill homosexuals- I am not going to do it.

I don't care if Christians threaten my life or my livelihood because I believe in equal marriage rights for homosexuals- I will still continue to support them.

I also don't care if aliens invade the earth and want us to bow to the Great Spaghetti Monster in the Sky- I won't do it.

I intend to live to my principles.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I couldn't care less if it's a church or not. Doesn't matter to me at all. If I bake wedding cakes, and a gay couple come in, I'm telling them no. I don't care what you think about "well that's a business", or "that's not a church". Your opinion on that doesn't matter to me in the slightest.

You are not going to force me to accommodate something that violates my religious views, whether it's a business of mine, or a church, or a hobby.

So I don't give a crap what you think it is.

Oh I thought you wanted a discussion.

Now I realize you just enjoy saying crap

The article you cited lied.

You don't care.

You complained about churches being forced to marry people- and no one is saying churches must marry people.

Just more crap from Conservatives.

No, I wanted you to tell me if the article was true, or false, and provide evidence.

Either the city officials did, or did not, tell them that they must marry gay couples. It's either true, or false. You claim they lied.

Ok. Please explain the following letter written to them from the City Attorney's office.
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/KnappCityAttorneyLetter.pdf

The letter makes it clear that if they are operating their Chapel as a for-profit business, that they are required to marry gay couples.

Was the letter from the Attorney's office a lie?

If the entire thing, every bit of evidence is a lie... then I respectfully accept your position. That's a heck of a lot of people that all lied, and only you on an internet forum have the truth.

I doubt they all lied, and only you are telling the truth.

As for 'more crap from conservatives'... oh no.... no no no. I'm far far worse than that. I'm a true Bible believing Christian. Conservatism is a political ideological belief system that encompasses dozens of topics, all of which I'd be more than willing to debate and discuss with you.

This.... is about true faith. It's not an abstract ideal for me. It's true worship of G-d in Heaven.

No, I'm not here to discuss my beliefs, or my religious views. I'm not here to debate practice of my faith, or the merits thereof.

No, I'm just here to TELL YOU what my faith is, and that I am going to practice it, with or without it being legal, or your approval.

I won't give my life for 'conservatism', but I most certainly will give my life for my faith. Allow me to make that crystal clear, in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. I will DIE over this issue. If you fine me, I won't pay the fine. If you fail me, I'll go gladly, but I won't follow your rules on this. When I get out of jail, I'll go right back to practicing my faith.

I will operate my church, run my business, and provide my services, to whomever I please, and refuse when it violates my faith. If you send me to prison for 20 years, when I get out, I'll resume my business, and still deny gay marriage, and there is nothing you will do to prevent it. I'll go back to prison for another 20 years, or the rest of my life. But I'm not going to follow this evil immoral law, no matter what.

And that.... is all there is to it.

I couldn't care less if it's a church or not. Doesn't matter to me at all. If I bake wedding cakes, and a gay couple come in, I'm telling them no. I don't care what you think about "well that's a business", or "that's not a church". Your opinion on that doesn't matter to me in the slightest.

You are not going to force me to accommodate something that violates my religious views, whether it's a business of mine, or a church, or a hobby.

So I don't give a crap what you think it is.

Oh I thought you wanted a discussion.

Now I realize you just enjoy saying crap

The article you cited lied.

You don't care.

You complained about churches being forced to marry people- and no one is saying churches must marry people.

Just more crap from Conservatives.

No, I wanted you to tell me if the article was true, or false, and provide evidence.

Either the city officials did, or did not, tell them that they must marry gay couples. It's either true, or false. You claim they lied.

Ok. Please explain the following letter written to them from the City Attorney's office.
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/KnappCityAttorneyLetter.pdf

The letter makes it clear that if they are operating their Chapel as a for-profit business, that they are required to marry gay couples.

Was the letter from the Attorney's office a lie?

If the entire thing, every bit of evidence is a lie... then I respectfully accept your position. That's a heck of a lot of people that all lied, and only you on an internet forum have the truth.

I doubt they all lied, and only you are telling the truth.

As for 'more crap from conservatives'... oh no.... no no no. I'm far far worse than that. I'm a true Bible believing Christian. Conservatism is a political ideological belief system that encompasses dozens of topics, all of which I'd be more than willing to debate and discuss with you.

This.... is about true faith. It's not an abstract ideal for me. It's true worship of G-d in Heaven.

No, I'm not here to discuss my beliefs, or my religious views. I'm not here to debate practice of my faith, or the merits thereof.

No, I'm just here to TELL YOU what my faith is, and that I am going to practice it, with or without it being legal, or your approval.

I won't give my life for 'conservatism', but I most certainly will give my life for my faith. Allow me to make that crystal clear, in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. I will DIE over this issue. If you fine me, I won't pay the fine. If you fail me, I'll go gladly, but I won't follow your rules on this. When I get out of jail, I'll go right back to practicing my faith.

I will operate my church, run my business, and provide my services, to whomever I please, and refuse when it violates my faith. If you send me to prison for 20 years, when I get out, I'll resume my business, and still deny gay marriage, and there is nothing you will do to prevent it. I'll go back to prison for another 20 years, or the rest of my life. But I'm not going to follow this evil immoral law, no matter what.

And that.... is all there is to it.

Who do you imagine is threatening you?

I never said anyone was threatening me. I was simply stating what my position, and what my intentions are, regardless of threat or not.

If no one threatens my faith values... Great. If everyone threatens... Great. I intend to live out my faith, regardless of anything else.

Okay let me state mine.

I don't care if the law tells me that I have to beat up and kill homosexuals- I am not going to do it.

I don't care if Christians threaten my life or my livelihood because I believe in equal marriage rights for homosexuals- I will still continue to support them.

I also don't care if aliens invade the earth and want us to bow to the Great Spaghetti Monster in the Sky- I won't do it.

I intend to live to my principles.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I don't care what the city says. I don't care what you say. We're not going to perform gay marriage.... Period. Jail us. Attack us. Smear us. Whatever you want.

We have a right to run business. We have a right to our religion and beliefs. You don't have a say in the matter.

We're not doing it. Period. You'll have to jail millions of Christians across this country. We're not going away, and we're not going to follow your laws. Sucks to be you.

It's not a "church" Androw. It's a wedding chapel which is a business that marries people. IF gay marriage is legal there, then they are using discriminatory business practices which is illegal.

Don't care. I said that the first time, and I'll say it every time here after.

Church, business, hobby. It's mine. My hobby... my business.. my church. Not yours. You don't have a right to tell me what to do with it.

"well that law says..."

Don't care.

"but it's not a church..."

Don't care.

"but discrimination...."

I DO NOT CARE.

I have a religious view, and it's not up for debate. That's what freedom of religion means. I can believe the moon is full of hamsters, and Obama is an alien hamster controlling the government, if I so desire to have a such a view.

We are not going to do gay marriage, those of use who believe in the Biblical Christian faith. We not doing it. PERIOD.

Not doing it. PERIOD. Not up for debate, I don't care about your reasons. Not happening.

Well guess what Androw? Discrimination IS against the law. The LAW doesn't care if you don't care. What are you so frightened about? Don't worry, nobody with half a brain would want to join your exclusive little club of judgmental jerks. That is why your churches are losing parishioners. People are realizing that it is not "Godly" to treat other people like crap.

Um... actually my church is growing. So... apparently people are realizing that it IS Godly. lol
I'm not frightened at all!

If I was scared... then I'd be worried about your laws, and your courts, and your regulations and statutes and anti-discrimination rules.
If I was really worried, I'd be asking these laws be repealed. I haven't said that at all.

I'm not. I'm just telling you straight up, I'm not scared, not going to follow your laws, and you are not going to stop me. Make all the laws you wish. Not going to follow them. Oh well.

And I don't care if no one joins my "exclusive little club of judgmental jerks" or not. I don't live my life to please you. If you think I'm terrible..... ok. If you think I'm great.... ok. I'm good either way.

Now, I'm not intentionally trying to piss people off, but I'm also not going to squeeze myself into whatever mold you demand. I'm going to live out my faith. You can like it, or hate it, but you are not going to change it.

Don't care what laws you pass. Not going to follow them. Don't care what fines you give. I'm not going to pay them.

Nobody is asking you to squeeze into any mold. Just don't treat people like crap. They are no less "people" created by God than you are. You don't have to personally approve of another person or their lifestyle, but that doesn't give the right to discriminate against them either, when their actions are NOT hurting anyone else.

See, here's where "public accommodation" laws are fucked up.

What in the world makes you believe I don't have the right to discriminate? Of COURSE I have a right to discriminate.

Can I hang a sign outside my business that says "I don't serve fat people?"

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I couldn't care less if it's a church or not. Doesn't matter to me at all. If I bake wedding cakes, and a gay couple come in, I'm telling them no. I don't care what you think about "well that's a business", or "that's not a church". Your opinion on that doesn't matter to me in the slightest.

You are not going to force me to accommodate something that violates my religious views, whether it's a business of mine, or a church, or a hobby.

So I don't give a crap what you think it is.

Oh I thought you wanted a discussion.

Now I realize you just enjoy saying crap

The article you cited lied.

You don't care.

You complained about churches being forced to marry people- and no one is saying churches must marry people.

Just more crap from Conservatives.

No, I wanted you to tell me if the article was true, or false, and provide evidence.

Either the city officials did, or did not, tell them that they must marry gay couples. It's either true, or false. You claim they lied.

Ok. Please explain the following letter written to them from the City Attorney's office.
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/KnappCityAttorneyLetter.pdf

The letter makes it clear that if they are operating their Chapel as a for-profit business, that they are required to marry gay couples.

Was the letter from the Attorney's office a lie?

If the entire thing, every bit of evidence is a lie... then I respectfully accept your position. That's a heck of a lot of people that all lied, and only you on an internet forum have the truth.

I doubt they all lied, and only you are telling the truth.

As for 'more crap from conservatives'... oh no.... no no no. I'm far far worse than that. I'm a true Bible believing Christian. Conservatism is a political ideological belief system that encompasses dozens of topics, all of which I'd be more than willing to debate and discuss with you.

This.... is about true faith. It's not an abstract ideal for me. It's true worship of G-d in Heaven.

No, I'm not here to discuss my beliefs, or my religious views. I'm not here to debate practice of my faith, or the merits thereof.

No, I'm just here to TELL YOU what my faith is, and that I am going to practice it, with or without it being legal, or your approval.

I won't give my life for 'conservatism', but I most certainly will give my life for my faith. Allow me to make that crystal clear, in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. I will DIE over this issue. If you fine me, I won't pay the fine. If you fail me, I'll go gladly, but I won't follow your rules on this. When I get out of jail, I'll go right back to practicing my faith.

I will operate my church, run my business, and provide my services, to whomever I please, and refuse when it violates my faith. If you send me to prison for 20 years, when I get out, I'll resume my business, and still deny gay marriage, and there is nothing you will do to prevent it. I'll go back to prison for another 20 years, or the rest of my life. But I'm not going to follow this evil immoral law, no matter what.

And that.... is all there is to it.

I couldn't care less if it's a church or not. Doesn't matter to me at all. If I bake wedding cakes, and a gay couple come in, I'm telling them no. I don't care what you think about "well that's a business", or "that's not a church". Your opinion on that doesn't matter to me in the slightest.

You are not going to force me to accommodate something that violates my religious views, whether it's a business of mine, or a church, or a hobby.

So I don't give a crap what you think it is.

Oh I thought you wanted a discussion.

Now I realize you just enjoy saying crap

The article you cited lied.

You don't care.

You complained about churches being forced to marry people- and no one is saying churches must marry people.

Just more crap from Conservatives.

No, I wanted you to tell me if the article was true, or false, and provide evidence.

Either the city officials did, or did not, tell them that they must marry gay couples. It's either true, or false. You claim they lied.

Ok. Please explain the following letter written to them from the City Attorney's office.
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/KnappCityAttorneyLetter.pdf

The letter makes it clear that if they are operating their Chapel as a for-profit business, that they are required to marry gay couples.

Was the letter from the Attorney's office a lie?

If the entire thing, every bit of evidence is a lie... then I respectfully accept your position. That's a heck of a lot of people that all lied, and only you on an internet forum have the truth.

I doubt they all lied, and only you are telling the truth.

As for 'more crap from conservatives'... oh no.... no no no. I'm far far worse than that. I'm a true Bible believing Christian. Conservatism is a political ideological belief system that encompasses dozens of topics, all of which I'd be more than willing to debate and discuss with you.

This.... is about true faith. It's not an abstract ideal for me. It's true worship of G-d in Heaven.

No, I'm not here to discuss my beliefs, or my religious views. I'm not here to debate practice of my faith, or the merits thereof.

No, I'm just here to TELL YOU what my faith is, and that I am going to practice it, with or without it being legal, or your approval.

I won't give my life for 'conservatism', but I most certainly will give my life for my faith. Allow me to make that crystal clear, in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. I will DIE over this issue. If you fine me, I won't pay the fine. If you fail me, I'll go gladly, but I won't follow your rules on this. When I get out of jail, I'll go right back to practicing my faith.

I will operate my church, run my business, and provide my services, to whomever I please, and refuse when it violates my faith. If you send me to prison for 20 years, when I get out, I'll resume my business, and still deny gay marriage, and there is nothing you will do to prevent it. I'll go back to prison for another 20 years, or the rest of my life. But I'm not going to follow this evil immoral law, no matter what.

And that.... is all there is to it.

Who do you imagine is threatening you?

I never said anyone was threatening me. I was simply stating what my position, and what my intentions are, regardless of threat or not.

If no one threatens my faith values... Great. If everyone threatens... Great. I intend to live out my faith, regardless of anything else.

Okay let me state mine.

I don't care if the law tells me that I have to beat up and kill homosexuals- I am not going to do it.

I don't care if Christians threaten my life or my livelihood because I believe in equal marriage rights for homosexuals- I will still continue to support them.

I also don't care if aliens invade the earth and want us to bow to the Great Spaghetti Monster in the Sky- I won't do it.

I intend to live to my principles.

Then obviously one of your principles is not " let people conduct their private lives the way they see fit"

 

[Syriusly]

Oh I thought you wanted a discussion.

Now I realize you just enjoy saying crap

The article you cited lied.

You don't care.

You complained about churches being forced to marry people- and no one is saying churches must marry people.

Just more crap from Conservatives.

No, I wanted you to tell me if the article was true, or false, and provide evidence.

Either the city officials did, or did not, tell them that they must marry gay couples. It's either true, or false. You claim they lied.

Ok. Please explain the following letter written to them from the City Attorney's office.
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/KnappCityAttorneyLetter.pdf

The letter makes it clear that if they are operating their Chapel as a for-profit business, that they are required to marry gay couples.

Was the letter from the Attorney's office a lie?

If the entire thing, every bit of evidence is a lie... then I respectfully accept your position. That's a heck of a lot of people that all lied, and only you on an internet forum have the truth.

I doubt they all lied, and only you are telling the truth.

As for 'more crap from conservatives'... oh no.... no no no. I'm far far worse than that. I'm a true Bible believing Christian. Conservatism is a political ideological belief system that encompasses dozens of topics, all of which I'd be more than willing to debate and discuss with you.

This.... is about true faith. It's not an abstract ideal for me. It's true worship of G-d in Heaven.

No, I'm not here to discuss my beliefs, or my religious views. I'm not here to debate practice of my faith, or the merits thereof.

No, I'm just here to TELL YOU what my faith is, and that I am going to practice it, with or without it being legal, or your approval.

I won't give my life for 'conservatism', but I most certainly will give my life for my faith. Allow me to make that crystal clear, in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. I will DIE over this issue. If you fine me, I won't pay the fine. If you fail me, I'll go gladly, but I won't follow your rules on this. When I get out of jail, I'll go right back to practicing my faith.

I will operate my church, run my business, and provide my services, to whomever I please, and refuse when it violates my faith. If you send me to prison for 20 years, when I get out, I'll resume my business, and still deny gay marriage, and there is nothing you will do to prevent it. I'll go back to prison for another 20 years, or the rest of my life. But I'm not going to follow this evil immoral law, no matter what.

And that.... is all there is to it.

Oh I thought you wanted a discussion.

Now I realize you just enjoy saying crap

The article you cited lied.

You don't care.

You complained about churches being forced to marry people- and no one is saying churches must marry people.

Just more crap from Conservatives.

No, I wanted you to tell me if the article was true, or false, and provide evidence.

Either the city officials did, or did not, tell them that they must marry gay couples. It's either true, or false. You claim they lied.

Ok. Please explain the following letter written to them from the City Attorney's office.
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/KnappCityAttorneyLetter.pdf

The letter makes it clear that if they are operating their Chapel as a for-profit business, that they are required to marry gay couples.

Was the letter from the Attorney's office a lie?

If the entire thing, every bit of evidence is a lie... then I respectfully accept your position. That's a heck of a lot of people that all lied, and only you on an internet forum have the truth.

I doubt they all lied, and only you are telling the truth.

As for 'more crap from conservatives'... oh no.... no no no. I'm far far worse than that. I'm a true Bible believing Christian. Conservatism is a political ideological belief system that encompasses dozens of topics, all of which I'd be more than willing to debate and discuss with you.

This.... is about true faith. It's not an abstract ideal for me. It's true worship of G-d in Heaven.

No, I'm not here to discuss my beliefs, or my religious views. I'm not here to debate practice of my faith, or the merits thereof.

No, I'm just here to TELL YOU what my faith is, and that I am going to practice it, with or without it being legal, or your approval.

I won't give my life for 'conservatism', but I most certainly will give my life for my faith. Allow me to make that crystal clear, in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. I will DIE over this issue. If you fine me, I won't pay the fine. If you fail me, I'll go gladly, but I won't follow your rules on this. When I get out of jail, I'll go right back to practicing my faith.

I will operate my church, run my business, and provide my services, to whomever I please, and refuse when it violates my faith. If you send me to prison for 20 years, when I get out, I'll resume my business, and still deny gay marriage, and there is nothing you will do to prevent it. I'll go back to prison for another 20 years, or the rest of my life. But I'm not going to follow this evil immoral law, no matter what.

And that.... is all there is to it.

Who do you imagine is threatening you?

I never said anyone was threatening me. I was simply stating what my position, and what my intentions are, regardless of threat or not.

If no one threatens my faith values... Great. If everyone threatens... Great. I intend to live out my faith, regardless of anything else.

Okay let me state mine.

I don't care if the law tells me that I have to beat up and kill homosexuals- I am not going to do it.

I don't care if Christians threaten my life or my livelihood because I believe in equal marriage rights for homosexuals- I will still continue to support them.

I also don't care if aliens invade the earth and want us to bow to the Great Spaghetti Monster in the Sky- I won't do it.

I intend to live to my principles.

Then obviously one of your principles is not " let people conduct their private lives the way they see fit"

One of my principles is not to discriminate against homosexuals, African Americans, Jews etc- not to discriminate against people based upon race, religion, national origin or sexual preference.

 

[Syriusly]

It's not a "church" Androw. It's a wedding chapel which is a business that marries people. IF gay marriage is legal there, then they are using discriminatory business practices which is illegal.

Don't care. I said that the first time, and I'll say it every time here after.

Church, business, hobby. It's mine. My hobby... my business.. my church. Not yours. You don't have a right to tell me what to do with it.

"well that law says..."

Don't care.

"but it's not a church..."

Don't care.

"but discrimination...."

I DO NOT CARE.

I have a religious view, and it's not up for debate. That's what freedom of religion means. I can believe the moon is full of hamsters, and Obama is an alien hamster controlling the government, if I so desire to have a such a view.

We are not going to do gay marriage, those of use who believe in the Biblical Christian faith. We not doing it. PERIOD.

Not doing it. PERIOD. Not up for debate, I don't care about your reasons. Not happening.

Well guess what Androw? Discrimination IS against the law. The LAW doesn't care if you don't care. What are you so frightened about? Don't worry, nobody with half a brain would want to join your exclusive little club of judgmental jerks. That is why your churches are losing parishioners. People are realizing that it is not "Godly" to treat other people like crap.

Um... actually my church is growing. So... apparently people are realizing that it IS Godly. lol
I'm not frightened at all!

If I was scared... then I'd be worried about your laws, and your courts, and your regulations and statutes and anti-discrimination rules.
If I was really worried, I'd be asking these laws be repealed. I haven't said that at all.

I'm not. I'm just telling you straight up, I'm not scared, not going to follow your laws, and you are not going to stop me. Make all the laws you wish. Not going to follow them. Oh well.

And I don't care if no one joins my "exclusive little club of judgmental jerks" or not. I don't live my life to please you. If you think I'm terrible..... ok. If you think I'm great.... ok. I'm good either way.

Now, I'm not intentionally trying to piss people off, but I'm also not going to squeeze myself into whatever mold you demand. I'm going to live out my faith. You can like it, or hate it, but you are not going to change it.

Don't care what laws you pass. Not going to follow them. Don't care what fines you give. I'm not going to pay them.

Nobody is asking you to squeeze into any mold. Just don't treat people like crap. They are no less "people" created by God than you are. You don't have to personally approve of another person or their lifestyle, but that doesn't give the right to discriminate against them either, when their actions are NOT hurting anyone else.

See, here's where "public accommodation" laws are fucked up.

What in the world makes you believe I don't have the right to discriminate? Of COURSE I have a right to discriminate.

Can I hang a sign outside my business that says "I don't serve fat people?"

In most places yes.

However you can't hang a sign outside your shop saying "I don't serve "Ni**ers" or "I don't serve Christians"- you would have legal problems.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

No, I wanted you to tell me if the article was true, or false, and provide evidence.

Either the city officials did, or did not, tell them that they must marry gay couples. It's either true, or false. You claim they lied.

Ok. Please explain the following letter written to them from the City Attorney's office.
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/KnappCityAttorneyLetter.pdf

The letter makes it clear that if they are operating their Chapel as a for-profit business, that they are required to marry gay couples.

Was the letter from the Attorney's office a lie?

If the entire thing, every bit of evidence is a lie... then I respectfully accept your position. That's a heck of a lot of people that all lied, and only you on an internet forum have the truth.

I doubt they all lied, and only you are telling the truth.

As for 'more crap from conservatives'... oh no.... no no no. I'm far far worse than that. I'm a true Bible believing Christian. Conservatism is a political ideological belief system that encompasses dozens of topics, all of which I'd be more than willing to debate and discuss with you.

This.... is about true faith. It's not an abstract ideal for me. It's true worship of G-d in Heaven.

No, I'm not here to discuss my beliefs, or my religious views. I'm not here to debate practice of my faith, or the merits thereof.

No, I'm just here to TELL YOU what my faith is, and that I am going to practice it, with or without it being legal, or your approval.

I won't give my life for 'conservatism', but I most certainly will give my life for my faith. Allow me to make that crystal clear, in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. I will DIE over this issue. If you fine me, I won't pay the fine. If you fail me, I'll go gladly, but I won't follow your rules on this. When I get out of jail, I'll go right back to practicing my faith.

I will operate my church, run my business, and provide my services, to whomever I please, and refuse when it violates my faith. If you send me to prison for 20 years, when I get out, I'll resume my business, and still deny gay marriage, and there is nothing you will do to prevent it. I'll go back to prison for another 20 years, or the rest of my life. But I'm not going to follow this evil immoral law, no matter what.

And that.... is all there is to it.

No, I wanted you to tell me if the article was true, or false, and provide evidence.

Either the city officials did, or did not, tell them that they must marry gay couples. It's either true, or false. You claim they lied.

Ok. Please explain the following letter written to them from the City Attorney's office.
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/KnappCityAttorneyLetter.pdf

The letter makes it clear that if they are operating their Chapel as a for-profit business, that they are required to marry gay couples.

Was the letter from the Attorney's office a lie?

If the entire thing, every bit of evidence is a lie... then I respectfully accept your position. That's a heck of a lot of people that all lied, and only you on an internet forum have the truth.

I doubt they all lied, and only you are telling the truth.

As for 'more crap from conservatives'... oh no.... no no no. I'm far far worse than that. I'm a true Bible believing Christian. Conservatism is a political ideological belief system that encompasses dozens of topics, all of which I'd be more than willing to debate and discuss with you.

This.... is about true faith. It's not an abstract ideal for me. It's true worship of G-d in Heaven.

No, I'm not here to discuss my beliefs, or my religious views. I'm not here to debate practice of my faith, or the merits thereof.

No, I'm just here to TELL YOU what my faith is, and that I am going to practice it, with or without it being legal, or your approval.

I won't give my life for 'conservatism', but I most certainly will give my life for my faith. Allow me to make that crystal clear, in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. I will DIE over this issue. If you fine me, I won't pay the fine. If you fail me, I'll go gladly, but I won't follow your rules on this. When I get out of jail, I'll go right back to practicing my faith.

I will operate my church, run my business, and provide my services, to whomever I please, and refuse when it violates my faith. If you send me to prison for 20 years, when I get out, I'll resume my business, and still deny gay marriage, and there is nothing you will do to prevent it. I'll go back to prison for another 20 years, or the rest of my life. But I'm not going to follow this evil immoral law, no matter what.

And that.... is all there is to it.

Who do you imagine is threatening you?

I never said anyone was threatening me. I was simply stating what my position, and what my intentions are, regardless of threat or not.

If no one threatens my faith values... Great. If everyone threatens... Great. I intend to live out my faith, regardless of anything else.

Okay let me state mine.

I don't care if the law tells me that I have to beat up and kill homosexuals- I am not going to do it.

I don't care if Christians threaten my life or my livelihood because I believe in equal marriage rights for homosexuals- I will still continue to support them.

I also don't care if aliens invade the earth and want us to bow to the Great Spaghetti Monster in the Sky- I won't do it.

I intend to live to my principles.

Then obviously one of your principles is not " let people conduct their private lives the way they see fit"

One of my principles is not to discriminate against homosexuals, African Americans, Jews etc- not to discriminate against people based upon race, religion, national origin or sexual preference.

And that's fine, but as you state when you defend gay marriage, You don't have a fucking right to demand that I accept YOUR principles.

Do you REALLY not get this? Or you recognize the hypocrisy and know the dangers of admitting to it?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Don't care. I said that the first time, and I'll say it every time here after.

Church, business, hobby. It's mine. My hobby... my business.. my church. Not yours. You don't have a right to tell me what to do with it.

"well that law says..."

Don't care.

"but it's not a church..."

Don't care.

"but discrimination...."

I DO NOT CARE.

I have a religious view, and it's not up for debate. That's what freedom of religion means. I can believe the moon is full of hamsters, and Obama is an alien hamster controlling the government, if I so desire to have a such a view.

We are not going to do gay marriage, those of use who believe in the Biblical Christian faith. We not doing it. PERIOD.

Not doing it. PERIOD. Not up for debate, I don't care about your reasons. Not happening.

Well guess what Androw? Discrimination IS against the law. The LAW doesn't care if you don't care. What are you so frightened about? Don't worry, nobody with half a brain would want to join your exclusive little club of judgmental jerks. That is why your churches are losing parishioners. People are realizing that it is not "Godly" to treat other people like crap.

Um... actually my church is growing. So... apparently people are realizing that it IS Godly. lol
I'm not frightened at all!

If I was scared... then I'd be worried about your laws, and your courts, and your regulations and statutes and anti-discrimination rules.
If I was really worried, I'd be asking these laws be repealed. I haven't said that at all.

I'm not. I'm just telling you straight up, I'm not scared, not going to follow your laws, and you are not going to stop me. Make all the laws you wish. Not going to follow them. Oh well.

And I don't care if no one joins my "exclusive little club of judgmental jerks" or not. I don't live my life to please you. If you think I'm terrible..... ok. If you think I'm great.... ok. I'm good either way.

Now, I'm not intentionally trying to piss people off, but I'm also not going to squeeze myself into whatever mold you demand. I'm going to live out my faith. You can like it, or hate it, but you are not going to change it.

Don't care what laws you pass. Not going to follow them. Don't care what fines you give. I'm not going to pay them.

Nobody is asking you to squeeze into any mold. Just don't treat people like crap. They are no less "people" created by God than you are. You don't have to personally approve of another person or their lifestyle, but that doesn't give the right to discriminate against them either, when their actions are NOT hurting anyone else.

See, here's where "public accommodation" laws are fucked up.

What in the world makes you believe I don't have the right to discriminate? Of COURSE I have a right to discriminate.

Can I hang a sign outside my business that says "I don't serve fat people?"

In most places yes.

However you can't hang a sign outside your shop saying "I don't serve "Ni**ers" or "I don't serve Christians"- you would have legal problems.

Once again, thank you for making my point for me. The 14th Amendment is quite clear in that all laws should protect all Americans equally. So logically, a law that protects some Americans, while allowing others to be discriminated against is unconstitutional.

So not only does the COTUS NOT empower the government to tell me I can't discriminate, it also forbids the same government for picking and choosing who to protect with laws.

 

[ChrisL]

Don't care. I said that the first time, and I'll say it every time here after.

Church, business, hobby. It's mine. My hobby... my business.. my church. Not yours. You don't have a right to tell me what to do with it.

"well that law says..."

Don't care.

"but it's not a church..."

Don't care.

"but discrimination...."

I DO NOT CARE.

I have a religious view, and it's not up for debate. That's what freedom of religion means. I can believe the moon is full of hamsters, and Obama is an alien hamster controlling the government, if I so desire to have a such a view.

We are not going to do gay marriage, those of use who believe in the Biblical Christian faith. We not doing it. PERIOD.

Not doing it. PERIOD. Not up for debate, I don't care about your reasons. Not happening.

Well guess what Androw? Discrimination IS against the law. The LAW doesn't care if you don't care. What are you so frightened about? Don't worry, nobody with half a brain would want to join your exclusive little club of judgmental jerks. That is why your churches are losing parishioners. People are realizing that it is not "Godly" to treat other people like crap.

Um... actually my church is growing. So... apparently people are realizing that it IS Godly. lol
I'm not frightened at all!

If I was scared... then I'd be worried about your laws, and your courts, and your regulations and statutes and anti-discrimination rules.
If I was really worried, I'd be asking these laws be repealed. I haven't said that at all.

I'm not. I'm just telling you straight up, I'm not scared, not going to follow your laws, and you are not going to stop me. Make all the laws you wish. Not going to follow them. Oh well.

And I don't care if no one joins my "exclusive little club of judgmental jerks" or not. I don't live my life to please you. If you think I'm terrible..... ok. If you think I'm great.... ok. I'm good either way.

Now, I'm not intentionally trying to piss people off, but I'm also not going to squeeze myself into whatever mold you demand. I'm going to live out my faith. You can like it, or hate it, but you are not going to change it.

Don't care what laws you pass. Not going to follow them. Don't care what fines you give. I'm not going to pay them.

Nobody is asking you to squeeze into any mold. Just don't treat people like crap. They are no less "people" created by God than you are. You don't have to personally approve of another person or their lifestyle, but that doesn't give the right to discriminate against them either, when their actions are NOT hurting anyone else.

See, here's where "public accommodation" laws are fucked up.

What in the world makes you believe I don't have the right to discriminate? Of COURSE I have a right to discriminate.

Can I hang a sign outside my business that says "I don't serve fat people?"

In most places yes.

However you can't hang a sign outside your shop saying "I don't serve "Ni**ers" or "I don't serve Christians"- you would have legal problems.

I'm not sure, but I don't think you can refuse to serve fat people either. I've never heard of such a thing. Why any smart business owner would want to use discriminatory business practice is unfathomable. It is not very smart business.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Well guess what Androw? Discrimination IS against the law. The LAW doesn't care if you don't care. What are you so frightened about? Don't worry, nobody with half a brain would want to join your exclusive little club of judgmental jerks. That is why your churches are losing parishioners. People are realizing that it is not "Godly" to treat other people like crap.

Um... actually my church is growing. So... apparently people are realizing that it IS Godly. lol
I'm not frightened at all!

If I was scared... then I'd be worried about your laws, and your courts, and your regulations and statutes and anti-discrimination rules.
If I was really worried, I'd be asking these laws be repealed. I haven't said that at all.

I'm not. I'm just telling you straight up, I'm not scared, not going to follow your laws, and you are not going to stop me. Make all the laws you wish. Not going to follow them. Oh well.

And I don't care if no one joins my "exclusive little club of judgmental jerks" or not. I don't live my life to please you. If you think I'm terrible..... ok. If you think I'm great.... ok. I'm good either way.

Now, I'm not intentionally trying to piss people off, but I'm also not going to squeeze myself into whatever mold you demand. I'm going to live out my faith. You can like it, or hate it, but you are not going to change it.

Don't care what laws you pass. Not going to follow them. Don't care what fines you give. I'm not going to pay them.

Nobody is asking you to squeeze into any mold. Just don't treat people like crap. They are no less "people" created by God than you are. You don't have to personally approve of another person or their lifestyle, but that doesn't give the right to discriminate against them either, when their actions are NOT hurting anyone else.

See, here's where "public accommodation" laws are fucked up.

What in the world makes you believe I don't have the right to discriminate? Of COURSE I have a right to discriminate.

Can I hang a sign outside my business that says "I don't serve fat people?"

In most places yes.

However you can't hang a sign outside your shop saying "I don't serve "Ni**ers" or "I don't serve Christians"- you would have legal problems.

I'm not sure, but I don't think you can refuse to serve fat people either. I've never heard of such a thing. Why any smart business owner would want to use discriminatory business practice is unfathomable. It is not very smart business.

I agree, wouldn't be smart business. Now, tell me why you believe the government has the right to stop people from being stupid.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Um... actually my church is growing. So... apparently people are realizing that it IS Godly. lol
I'm not frightened at all!

If I was scared... then I'd be worried about your laws, and your courts, and your regulations and statutes and anti-discrimination rules.
If I was really worried, I'd be asking these laws be repealed. I haven't said that at all.

I'm not. I'm just telling you straight up, I'm not scared, not going to follow your laws, and you are not going to stop me. Make all the laws you wish. Not going to follow them. Oh well.

And I don't care if no one joins my "exclusive little club of judgmental jerks" or not. I don't live my life to please you. If you think I'm terrible..... ok. If you think I'm great.... ok. I'm good either way.

Now, I'm not intentionally trying to piss people off, but I'm also not going to squeeze myself into whatever mold you demand. I'm going to live out my faith. You can like it, or hate it, but you are not going to change it.

Don't care what laws you pass. Not going to follow them. Don't care what fines you give. I'm not going to pay them.

Nobody is asking you to squeeze into any mold. Just don't treat people like crap. They are no less "people" created by God than you are. You don't have to personally approve of another person or their lifestyle, but that doesn't give the right to discriminate against them either, when their actions are NOT hurting anyone else.

See, here's where "public accommodation" laws are fucked up.

What in the world makes you believe I don't have the right to discriminate? Of COURSE I have a right to discriminate.

Can I hang a sign outside my business that says "I don't serve fat people?"

In most places yes.

However you can't hang a sign outside your shop saying "I don't serve "Ni**ers" or "I don't serve Christians"- you would have legal problems.

I'm not sure, but I don't think you can refuse to serve fat people either. I've never heard of such a thing. Why any smart business owner would want to use discriminatory business practice is unfathomable. It is not very smart business.

I agree, wouldn't be smart business. Now, tell me why you believe the government has the right to stop people from being stupid.

You have every right to put up a sign discriminating against fat people and you will subsequently either pay out a huge settlement or they will end up owning your business.

Since you came up with that idiotic scenario it is patently obvious that you have never run a business of your own.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Nobody is asking you to squeeze into any mold. Just don't treat people like crap. They are no less "people" created by God than you are. You don't have to personally approve of another person or their lifestyle, but that doesn't give the right to discriminate against them either, when their actions are NOT hurting anyone else.

See, here's where "public accommodation" laws are fucked up.

What in the world makes you believe I don't have the right to discriminate? Of COURSE I have a right to discriminate.

Can I hang a sign outside my business that says "I don't serve fat people?"

In most places yes.

However you can't hang a sign outside your shop saying "I don't serve "Ni**ers" or "I don't serve Christians"- you would have legal problems.

I'm not sure, but I don't think you can refuse to serve fat people either. I've never heard of such a thing. Why any smart business owner would want to use discriminatory business practice is unfathomable. It is not very smart business.

I agree, wouldn't be smart business. Now, tell me why you believe the government has the right to stop people from being stupid.

You have every right to put up a sign discriminating against fat people and you will subsequently either pay out a huge settlement or they will end up owning your business.

Since you came up with that idiotic scenario it is patently obvious that you have never run a business of your own.

I in fact own a restaurant, and can you with certainty that where I live you can discriminate against fat people.

Are you too stupid to understand that the way the laws are written unless the law SPECIFICALLY says that you can't discriminate for X reason, you CAN discriminate for that reason?

 

[ChrisL]

See, here's where "public accommodation" laws are fucked up.

What in the world makes you believe I don't have the right to discriminate? Of COURSE I have a right to discriminate.

Can I hang a sign outside my business that says "I don't serve fat people?"

In most places yes.

However you can't hang a sign outside your shop saying "I don't serve "Ni**ers" or "I don't serve Christians"- you would have legal problems.

I'm not sure, but I don't think you can refuse to serve fat people either. I've never heard of such a thing. Why any smart business owner would want to use discriminatory business practice is unfathomable. It is not very smart business.

I agree, wouldn't be smart business. Now, tell me why you believe the government has the right to stop people from being stupid.

You have every right to put up a sign discriminating against fat people and you will subsequently either pay out a huge settlement or they will end up owning your business.

Since you came up with that idiotic scenario it is patently obvious that you have never run a business of your own.

I in fact own a restaurant, and can you with certainty that where I live you can discriminate against fat people.

Are you too stupid to understand that the way the laws are written unless the law SPECIFICALLY says that you can't discriminate for X reason, you CAN discriminate for that reason?

Do you make moral judgments about specific people or groups of people and refuse them service? If so, why? Just to be mean to them, or to make them feel bad? For what purpose would you want to do this?

 

[Rikurzhen]

In most places yes.

However you can't hang a sign outside your shop saying "I don't serve "Ni**ers" or "I don't serve Christians"- you would have legal problems.

I'm not sure, but I don't think you can refuse to serve fat people either. I've never heard of such a thing. Why any smart business owner would want to use discriminatory business practice is unfathomable. It is not very smart business.

I agree, wouldn't be smart business. Now, tell me why you believe the government has the right to stop people from being stupid.

You have every right to put up a sign discriminating against fat people and you will subsequently either pay out a huge settlement or they will end up owning your business.

Since you came up with that idiotic scenario it is patently obvious that you have never run a business of your own.

I in fact own a restaurant, and can you with certainty that where I live you can discriminate against fat people.

Are you too stupid to understand that the way the laws are written unless the law SPECIFICALLY says that you can't discriminate for X reason, you CAN discriminate for that reason?

Do you make moral judgments about specific people or groups of people and refuse them service? If so, why? Just to be mean to them, or to make them feel bad? For what purpose would you want to do this?

Do you date 98 pound weaklings or body-builders? Why do you choose one over the other? Justify your taste in men and let us judge you on your answer.

 

[ChrisL]

I'm not sure, but I don't think you can refuse to serve fat people either. I've never heard of such a thing. Why any smart business owner would want to use discriminatory business practice is unfathomable. It is not very smart business.

I agree, wouldn't be smart business. Now, tell me why you believe the government has the right to stop people from being stupid.

You have every right to put up a sign discriminating against fat people and you will subsequently either pay out a huge settlement or they will end up owning your business.

Since you came up with that idiotic scenario it is patently obvious that you have never run a business of your own.

I in fact own a restaurant, and can you with certainty that where I live you can discriminate against fat people.

Are you too stupid to understand that the way the laws are written unless the law SPECIFICALLY says that you can't discriminate for X reason, you CAN discriminate for that reason?

Do you make moral judgments about specific people or groups of people and refuse them service? If so, why? Just to be mean to them, or to make them feel bad? For what purpose would you want to do this?

Do you date 98 pound weaklings or body-builders? Why do you choose one over the other? Justify your taste in men and let us judge you on your answer.

You are crazy. Preferences for personal relationships are completely different than business practices.

 

[Rikurzhen]

I agree, wouldn't be smart business. Now, tell me why you believe the government has the right to stop people from being stupid.

You have every right to put up a sign discriminating against fat people and you will subsequently either pay out a huge settlement or they will end up owning your business.

Since you came up with that idiotic scenario it is patently obvious that you have never run a business of your own.

I in fact own a restaurant, and can you with certainty that where I live you can discriminate against fat people.

Are you too stupid to understand that the way the laws are written unless the law SPECIFICALLY says that you can't discriminate for X reason, you CAN discriminate for that reason?

Do you make moral judgments about specific people or groups of people and refuse them service? If so, why? Just to be mean to them, or to make them feel bad? For what purpose would you want to do this?

Do you date 98 pound weaklings or body-builders? Why do you choose one over the other? Justify your taste in men and let us judge you on your answer.

You are crazy. Preferences for personal relationships are completely different than business practices.

No they're not. Don't impose your standards on people who don't accept your standards.

Human rights don't vanish just because one conducts business.

 

[ChrisL]

You have every right to put up a sign discriminating against fat people and you will subsequently either pay out a huge settlement or they will end up owning your business.

Since you came up with that idiotic scenario it is patently obvious that you have never run a business of your own.

I in fact own a restaurant, and can you with certainty that where I live you can discriminate against fat people.

Are you too stupid to understand that the way the laws are written unless the law SPECIFICALLY says that you can't discriminate for X reason, you CAN discriminate for that reason?

Do you make moral judgments about specific people or groups of people and refuse them service? If so, why? Just to be mean to them, or to make them feel bad? For what purpose would you want to do this?

Do you date 98 pound weaklings or body-builders? Why do you choose one over the other? Justify your taste in men and let us judge you on your answer.

You are crazy. Preferences for personal relationships are completely different than business practices.

No they're not. Don't impose your standards on people who don't accept your standards.

Human rights don't vanish just because one conducts business.

Yes, they are. The only ones who are trying to impose "standards" are yourselves, moral standards that is. Really, that has absolutely nothing to do with your business.

What are you afraid of? That God will forsake you to hell because you did business with a gay person? How dumb is that? Think about it.

 

[ChrisL]

Besides, UNLESS you are running a business that does some type of marriage related service, you probably would not even know for sure if a person is gay or not, other than just making an educated guess, but that is no guarantee.