Hidden welfare

[AllieBaba]

What is?

Having money in your bank acct, and not being dependent on a gov't HANDOUT.
Clear enough for ya?

Aww, little miss cut 'n run Allie Babba just had to give me a neg rep, too chicken shit to post her comment where everyone could see.

Sometimes its best to say "aww FUCKET, some folks will never learn"

Some libs are just too bullheaded to listen and learn

Kudos to you if you're able to take advantage of tax loopholes, but millions of people are barred because they don't meet the income-deduction formula.

My point, which you obviously missed completely, is that people like you bitch and moan about low-income people paying no taxes at all, but never bitch and moan about wealthy people who also manipulate their tax liabilty so that they too owe zero in taxes. Ironically, both scenarios are about "having more in your bank account," or is that too difficult for you and Mz. Babble to grasp?

I'm sorry, I was not aware that the rich didn't pay taxes.

Can you provide some evidence of that? I know my sister who is a judge and my bro-in-law, who is a retired stockbroker trot their butts to the post office every year to send off big fat checks to the government....

 

[MaggieMae]

Thus say all the individuals who seem to resent the fact that I find their contributions to the board too stupid to elicit a well thought out response.

If you could read and reason, you would know how foolish you sound.

Yet here you are, again. Imagine that.

 

[AllieBaba]

Again I contribute substantially to the thread by asking for clarification of a ridiculous statement, and again my question is ignored so that someone can troll.

Go figure.

 

[AllieBaba]

So please. Give me some evidence that the rich don't pay taxes? And since your contention is that they're enjoying the same perks as the super poor, please provide some evidence that they get money back from the government in the form of *tax returns* for taxes they never paid?

I'll wait.

 

[MaggieMae]

To listen to the right, Americans are demanding that budget cuts be made in social programs to lower the deficit. Ironically, however, they don't want their taxes raised (or touched) that disguise other forms of "welfare" for which they are huge beneficiaries:

Americans Oppose Eliminating Income Tax Deductions

We also hear a constant refrain from the right that 45% pay no taxes at all, attempting to blame the low-income people alone, when in fact that 45% includes many wealthy people who use the existing tax loopholes to either pay no income taxes, or at least lower their tax obligations to near zero.

Super rich see federal taxes drop dramatically - Yahoo! News

So I question whether anyone is really serious about paying down the debt, which will require sacrifice and pain at all levels. The common answer seen in poll after poll after poll is NO.

a)


can you link to this please?


b)

We also hear a constant refrain from the right that 45% pay no taxes at all, attempting to blame the low-income people alone,

can you link to this please?

Maggie is just another class warfare drone.... there is no proof for the stupity she is spewing.

What the right (conservatives) want is for the Gov't to STOP WASTING our tax dollars to support stupid programs that DONT WORK!
Look at all the Democrat strongholds.... THEY ARE ALL BROKE AND NEEDING BAILOUTS!

Maggie... you really brought the stupid on this thread.... especially since you WONT prove your claims.

Read the links. You can read, can't you? I mean beyond common insults and headlines?

 

[MaggieMae]

""

here, have a complimentary beverage,

to that taste of shoe leather out of your mouth......

You might want to learn how to quote a post AND have an actual point next time. It sort of helps.

It's pretty obvious from the ignorant comments that my post had quite a sting. It's also pretty obvious that some people are clueless that nickel and diming so-called "welfare" or "social giveaways" amounts to a small pimple on the side of a mountain range as far as getting budget deficits under control.

 

[MaggieMae]

Deficit Spending is the hidden welfare!
Deficit Spending is taxing all savers & rewarding all spenders!

You can't save for emergencies or retirement because your savings is worthless when you need it. This has forced this nation into paycheck to paycheck consumers & government dependants. It is nearly impossible to retire without being a government dependent when your savings are destroyed. Currency devaluation is forced socialism.

Well at least someone has joined the conversation that sounds like they have brains they check in with every now and then.

Thank you for making that point.

 

[MaggieMae]

I know which posters on this site are able to have a discussion and which ones would rather neg rep and run from threads. You and Allie fit nicely in to the first group. No point in even attempting to have a rational discussion with irrational people.

You fuckin pussy.... You havent even tried to debate us with the merit of your own arguements, or points. Instead, as I pointed out, you just like to insult and ridicule your opponents in the arena of ideas. Ive asked you to prove your point and you refuse to.

You lose.... and you cant say I didnt try and bring it to you either. Your a coward.

It's really difficult to have a dialog with someone who can't even put together a grammatically correct and cohesive sentence. And by the way, what have YOU contributed to the subject other than to dismiss it out of hand? This is hardly an "arena" of ideas when NO "ideas" have come from YOU. If you think the OP is wrong, and the links are wrong, then find some valid source of your own to counter.

 

[MaggieMae]

To listen to the right, Americans are demanding that budget cuts be made in social programs to lower the deficit. Ironically, however, they don't want their taxes raised (or touched) that disguise other forms of "welfare" for which they are huge beneficiaries:

Americans Oppose Eliminating Income Tax Deductions

We also hear a constant refrain from the right that 45% pay no taxes at all, attempting to blame the low-income people alone, when in fact that 45% includes many wealthy people who use the existing tax loopholes to either pay no income taxes, or at least lower their tax obligations to near zero.

Super rich see federal taxes drop dramatically - Yahoo! News

So I question whether anyone is really serious about paying down the debt, which will require sacrifice and pain at all levels. The common answer seen in poll after poll after poll is NO.

How about a 100 Page Tax Code. Throw the Abomination out and restructure from scratch. Government needs to get out of picking the winners and losers and try for the first time in It's history to maintain a fair playing field. Why encourage Monopoly? That's really State Funded Capitalism or State Capitalism in Disguise. The Power has become an abused Trust, 3 Card Monty, with the force of law behind it and Penalty for anyone that looks to closely or asks embarrassing questions. For Each Exception, for Each Waiver, a Rational Person should question the Injustice, the lack of Impartiality, the threat of Corruption, Contamination, the Why?

I agree. The entire tax code needs to be rewritten, but it would be a monumental task. In the meantime, we need to remove those clauses that contribute to its unfairness.

 

[xsited1]

To listen to the right, Americans are demanding that budget cuts be made in social programs to lower the deficit. Ironically, however, they don't want their taxes raised (or touched) that disguise other forms of "welfare" for which they are huge beneficiaries:

Americans Oppose Eliminating Income Tax Deductions

We also hear a constant refrain from the right that 45% pay no taxes at all, attempting to blame the low-income people alone, when in fact that 45% includes many wealthy people who use the existing tax loopholes to either pay no income taxes, or at least lower their tax obligations to near zero.

Super rich see federal taxes drop dramatically - Yahoo! News

So I question whether anyone is really serious about paying down the debt, which will require sacrifice and pain at all levels. The common answer seen in poll after poll after poll is NO.

Most people are serious about paying down the debt (except for the 'free lunch' crowd), but Congress is not. It's time to get new leadership (again).

 

[MaggieMae]

Here's the question, why should I have to pay for Bob's healthcare? It's his responsibility to get Insurance! We ain't Canada, Healthcare should not be paid for by the Government.

Why does my contribution to Medicare have to pay for subsidizing private insurers who cover Medicare subscribers to Medicare ADVANTAGE coverage? Why should I have to pay for George's war? TAXES are what PAY FOR things that you want and things that I want, or don't. This is the UNITED States of America, comprised of WE the people, not ME and YOU independently, something you cons seem to have forgotten.

And you're off topic. There's a whole topic classification for the health care issue. Go there.

 

[MaggieMae]

To listen to the right, Americans are demanding that budget cuts be made in social programs to lower the deficit. Ironically, however, they don't want their taxes raised (or touched) that disguise other forms of "welfare" for which they are huge beneficiaries:

Americans Oppose Eliminating Income Tax Deductions

We also hear a constant refrain from the right that 45% pay no taxes at all, attempting to blame the low-income people alone, when in fact that 45% includes many wealthy people who use the existing tax loopholes to either pay no income taxes, or at least lower their tax obligations to near zero.

Super rich see federal taxes drop dramatically - Yahoo! News

So I question whether anyone is really serious about paying down the debt, which will require sacrifice and pain at all levels. The common answer seen in poll after poll after poll is NO.

Obviously the more one makes, the bigger their deductions are likely to be. Who gets the biggest benefit from the home mortgage deduction? It certainly isn't the owner of the $150,000 home. It's the owner of the $500,000 plus home, unless they paid cash. As for the 45% who pay no income tax, they still pay SS/Medicare taxes, excise taxes, sin taxes, and much more on the local level. Generally speaking, those in the lower income brackets pay a much larger percentage of their income in local taxes than the wealthy.

Last of all, the wealthy are much more likely to pay no taxes on a larger amount of income than someone making much less. By the time they are done with their deductions, they may not pay any taxes on a good portion of their income due to deductions. Now I really don't have a problem with that, but the bitching that they are the only ones to pay taxes really irks me, because it is just BS.

I wouldn't even mind so much if they weren't the very ones bitching the most about high taxes. It's like WHOT?! And of course the under-informed support those contentions simply because businesses and especially big corporations are generally politically conservative, so it all comes down to party-first, common sense last.

 

[MaggieMae]

Here's the question, why should I have to pay for Bob's healthcare? It's his responsibility to get Insurance! We ain't Canada, Healthcare should not be paid for by the Government.

I will give you one very good reason. Because when you are born, you don't know whether or not you will be Bob. And that does not mean Bob should not pay anything. But you and I subsidizing Bob isn't the worst thing in the world. And if Bob benefits by staying healthier and contributing more to society due to our supporting his better health, then everyone benefits in the long run.

You are right I don't know if I'll be Bob so what do I do? Buy insurance. The 13th most powerful company in the world is an insurance company. It's their job to take money from everyone and pay for bob. Not the Government. Why? Because that way If people get annoyed with the insurance company they can leave it unlike the Government.

You're assuming another "Bob" can afford $500-$2,000 a month for the premium for private insurance. Next, you're assuming that once "Bob" decides he can't pay the premium, he then has the option to, gasp, get his health care free at an ER or, cough cough, via Medicaid. Third, private insurance companies do not collect premiums and set aside some of that money to "help" pay for the uninsured. Are you nuts?

 

[MaggieMae]

After reading some of the threads that's premise ignores reality by suggesting that higher earners' reluctance to contribute to a tax bracket that's relative to their income in some way be interpretted to the effect that they're willfully avoiding/ignoring the financial relief of lower earners is and are benefitting from an arrangement that would in more financially stable circumstances be universally accepted by left and right as fair is preposterous to say the least.

Benefit/welfare/the dole are a safety net payed for by the state. Taxes levied on citizens are compulsory payments demanded of those who wish to continue living in a relatively safe and stable environment. Taxes essentially pay for what the left generally take for granted.

Hiking tax rates against the more well off in society to act as a financial catalyst to the deppression can legally be defined as inequality. It's the equivelent of proclaiming that blacks are more likely to carry an illegally held firearm, so to counter act the risk you prohibit all black men and women from holding a firearms licence. Perhaps those dependent on welfare should shoulder some responsibility by examining their spending habits and identifying what they do and do not need.

You could, of course, reverse the situation by theoretically putting yourslef in the shoes of someone that earns more than you do. Then ask yourself how you'd instinctively react if you were told you had to pay more to enjoy the protection and comfort payed for by the state because, through your hard work, trepidation and perseverance you earn more than the people that live a few blocks away.

At the end of the day, what we're discussing boils down to basic survival instincts. And no, incase you were wondering, I'm not fabulously wealthy. I'm just a realist that respects privacy and the results and subsequently enhanced quality of living that comes from hard work.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if all that lovely ideology actually worked? The problem, however, is that the wealthy were the biggest beneficiaries of tax cuts, and yet benefit from an added edge through even further tax cuts they take on their 1040's, all the while complaining that it is the poorer people who should be giving way to working harder in order to achieve what the wealthy enjoy. And ironically, that last class of people use every nickel for those "basic survival instincts" you define. Most middle-class earners live paycheck-to-paycheck, with little opportunity nor time to set out to improve their status. I don't think anyone is asking for total "equality," just a better playing field which right now guarantees that the wealthy will be free of worry, while everyone else does all the struggling, "just to survive."

 

[AllieBaba]

So please. Give me some evidence that the rich don't pay taxes? And since your contention is that they're enjoying the same perks as the super poor, please provide some evidence that they get money back from the government in the form of *tax returns* for taxes they never paid?

I'll wait.

Reposted for your convenience. You must have missed it before.

 

[MaggieMae]

Again I contribute substantially to the thread by asking for clarification of a ridiculous statement, and again my question is ignored so that someone can troll.

Go figure.

Is it too much trouble for you to READ THE FUCKING LINKS I PROVIDED?

Super rich see federal taxes drop dramatically - Yahoo! News

The top income tax rate is 35 percent, so how can people who make so much pay so little in taxes? The nation's tax laws are packed with breaks for people at every income level. There are breaks for having children, paying a mortgage, going to college, and even for paying other taxes. Plus, the top rate on capital gains is only 15 percent.
There are so many breaks that 45 percent of U.S. households will pay no federal income tax for 2010, according to estimates by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.

 

[MaggieMae]

So please. Give me some evidence that the rich don't pay taxes? And since your contention is that they're enjoying the same perks as the super poor, please provide some evidence that they get money back from the government in the form of *tax returns* for taxes they never paid?

I'll wait.

Up yours. If you can't be bothered to read the links, then just slink away, bitch.

 

[AllieBaba]

You moron. Those links don't prove anything you said.

Give us the quotes. You made the statement, you should have those right at your fingertips.

Lol...nice trolling, btw.

 

[AllieBaba]

Remember, you said the rich didn't pay taxes, and that they received essentially the same perks as really poor people do.

So..where's the evidence that they don't pay taxes while at the same time getting $$ back?

Now slink away, retard.

 

[MaggieMae]

To listen to the right, Americans are demanding that budget cuts be made in social programs to lower the deficit. Ironically, however, they don't want their taxes raised (or touched) that disguise other forms of "welfare" for which they are huge beneficiaries:

Americans Oppose Eliminating Income Tax Deductions

We also hear a constant refrain from the right that 45% pay no taxes at all, attempting to blame the low-income people alone, when in fact that 45% includes many wealthy people who use the existing tax loopholes to either pay no income taxes, or at least lower their tax obligations to near zero.

Super rich see federal taxes drop dramatically - Yahoo! News

So I question whether anyone is really serious about paying down the debt, which will require sacrifice and pain at all levels. The common answer seen in poll after poll after poll is NO.

Most people are serious about paying down the debt (except for the 'free lunch' crowd), but Congress is not. It's time to get new leadership (again).

You're quite possibly right. If the Republicans manage to overreach with their own priorities, now that Washington (and many states) have the similar attitude of our-way-or-the-highway that's been going on for the last decade, it may take another cycle of this bullshit politicking before the American people finally wake up that NEITHER party should dictate entirely a set of solutions to the issues of the day, including taxing and spending.