Zone1 Have you ever changed your religion?

[Woodznutz]

I haven't changed it, but I've learned a lot more about it.

 

[marvin martian]

There`s no harm in reading the Bible or the Quran, but those books were written by men in an ancient time.

So were Newton's laws of physics and Pythagoras' laws of geometry.

 

[Zebra]

now ….

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[August West]

Actually, what I got out of the Bible is that Churches made their own rules, and they don't like it when people ask questions. And little Joey, who liked to ask questions, often found himself getting slapped over the knuckles with a ruler by frustrated lesbians in habits.

"Sister Mary Butch, why did God drown all the babies?" "They were WICKED BABIES! WIIIIIICKED!" SLAP!
"Sister, it says here in the Bible no Graven Images, but we have all these statues of the Saints in Church!" SLAP!

If more people read the bible, we'd have more atheists!

The Bible was written by men and rarely mentioned in my 8 years of Catholic school.
"slaves, obey your masters" the Bible says. Eff that .

 

[Meriweather]

The Bible was written by men and rarely mentioned in my 8 years of Catholic school.

I'm guessing it was more like you were rarely listening when it was mentioned.

"slaves, obey your masters" the Bible says.

Another guess: You thought that meant the slaves in the US in the 17th and 18th centuries. Do you remember what slavery was like in Biblical times?

 

[August West]

I'm guessing it was more like you were rarely listening when it was mentioned.

Another guess: You thought that meant the slaves in the US in the 17th and 18th centuries. Do you remember what slavery was like in Biblical times?

One more time: It`s a book written by men in an ancient time. You`re not smart enough to know what I thought. Not even close.

 

[Meriweather]

One more time: It`s a book written by men in an ancient time. You`re not smart enough to know what I thought. Not even close.

And that is why I said I am guessing...guesses based on teaching religious ed and the information students have about the history of slavery in the US. Would you like to tell me what you thought?

(Pssst. I already know the Bible is books that were written by men in ancient times. Their language and their culture was vastly different from English and modern Western culture. Read the English version through the lens of modern Western culture and the perspective today can be quite different from their intent.)

 

[Blaster]

Changed from Methodist to Catholic.

 

[Crick]

Our parents took us, their five children, to a Protestant church when we were young but they were paragons of what could be called pew-warmers. They only took us there in response to social pressure and only very rarely attended themselves. It was usually a drop-off.

When I was about ten, I became an atheist and have remained one ever since. All my siblings also became atheists. All their spouses and all their children are atheists. My wife and children are all atheists. We have some cousins that still believe and, interestingly, also support Trump. All the atheists are liberal democrats. We are also fairly well educated. Among my four siblings and I we have 1 PhD, 3 MAs and 1 BSc (me). Among our spouses and children we have another 7 more MAs and 5 BScs. There is a strong correlation between education and lack of religion and sorry for the offense but I think the cause is obvious.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

And that is why I said I am guessing...guesses based on teaching religious ed and the information students have about the history of slavery in the US. Would you like to tell me what you thought?

(Pssst. I already know the Bible is books that were written by men in ancient times. Their language and their culture was vastly different from English and modern Western culture. Read the English version through the lens of modern Western culture and the perspective today can be quite different from their intent.)

Did the Bible say that you can beat your slaves?

 

[Meriweather]

Did the Bible say that you can beat your slaves?

Did the Bible set limits for beating slaves/servants?

 

[LeroyDumonde]

Did the Bible set limits for beating slaves/servants?

So we agree that the Bible says that you can beat your slaves. As I recall you could beat them as badly as you want as long as the beating doesn't kill them in 3 or fewer days. But if the slave that you just savaged managed to cling to life for 4 days then you're in the clear. Is that how Christian businessmen should treat their employees?

 

[Blues Man]

Did the Bible set limits for beating slaves/servants?

Love thy neighbors as thyself doesn't count for slaves huh?

Are there any limits for beating your neighbor? How about the priest that molested your kids?

Why you people defend Iron Age morality I'll never know.

 

[Meriweather]

So we agree that the Bible says that you can beat your slaves. As I recall you could beat them as badly as you want as long as the beating doesn't kill them in 3 or fewer days. But if the slave that you just savaged managed to cling to life for 4 days then you're in the clear. Is that how Christian businessmen should treat their employees?

Who was the Lord speaking to? What were they doing?

In the economy of the time, people could sell themselves as slaves for a time, which we know better as indentured servants. They agreed to work and to obey their master. Is this our economy today?

Justice in Biblical times once meant if a man killed someone by accident, they had to go to a place of sanctuary and live there. (Is this time what you are describing?) In any case, his case was judged there. What we are reading is the justice of that period of time, of what God was working with during that time. One baby step at a time...let it be known that a slave/indentured servant could not be beaten to death.

Note that God kept working with his people on this issues so by the time of Jesus very few Jews owned slaves at all.

You seem to be proposing we take a huge leap back into time. That instead of the employee offering to work for a wage, employees should have to offer themselves as slaves/indentured servants. The employer then is morally responsible for maintaining them (food, clothing, shelter) for that set time. Now what if the indentured servant refuses to keep up his end of the bargain. "Nope! Not going to work. But I am still yours to feed, clothe, and shelter." What would you do to motivate that lazy fellow to work? Back in those days, it was a beating. But there were limits.

If we were to be indentured servants to our employers today where they had to supply us with all necessities (including medical care) once the contract was made, how do you propose those who are lazy be made to work. (Before you suggest lawyers and lawsuits remember how today it usually more economical to settle the matter without lawsuits. It would be cheaper to keep the non-working employee than to bring suit.)

Our economic times are entirely different. Although it is getting harder, an employer can fire an employee and hire someone who will work. An employee who is mistreated can not only leave to find another job, he can bring suit against his former employer.

When we read the Bible we fare better if we put ourselves back in those times and focus on the problem society was facing. How hard could you discipline your slaves/servant? Well, if they weren't alive four days after they were disciplined, you faced a murder charge. That would have given angry masters pause before delivering another lash.

 

[Meriweather]

Love thy neighbors as thyself doesn't count for slaves huh?

Exactly, which is why slavery was on the way out by the time of Jesus. Further, it never was like it was here in America. Remember in Biblical times if a master and slave/servant found themselves on the road at nightfall with only one blanket/cloak between them, it was the slave/servant who got the cloak/blanket.

 

[Blues Man]

Exactly, which is why slavery was on the way out by the time of Jesus. Further, it never was like it was here in America. Remember in Biblical times if a master and slave/servant found themselves on the road at nightfall with only one blanket/cloak between them, it was the slave/servant who got the cloak/blanket.

Jesus never explicitly condemned slavery.

The end of slavery is more due to the humanism of the Age of Enlightenment than religion.

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus never explicitly condemned slavery.

The end of slavery is more due to the humanism of the Age of Enlightenment than religion.

Jesus was a Jew, and throughout the Hebrew Bible, there are reminders how they, too, were once slaves. Their culture was reminded of this time in their history each year at Passover. Since Jews were once enslaved, it should not be hard to predict what any Jew would say about slavery. Ever before them is God freeing them from slavery. Jews are commanded to be faithful and just, as God is faithful and just. God freed them, and eventually, remembering this, Jews were able to do the same.

 

[Blues Man]

Jesus was a Jew, and throughout the Hebrew Bible, there are reminders how they, too, were once slaves. Their culture was reminded of this time in their history each year at Passover. Since Jews were once enslaved, it should not be hard to predict what any Jew would say about slavery. Ever before them is God freeing them from slavery. Jews are commanded to be faithful and just, as God is faithful and just. God freed them, and eventually, remembering this, Jews were able to do the same.

Slavery persisted throughout the Mediterranean region until the well into the 18th century so to say it was on its way out in the first century CE is inaccurate

 

[Meriweather]

Slavery persisted throughout the Mediterranean region until the well into the 18th century so to say it was on its way out in the first century CE is inaccurate

Ah, but I didn't say "Mediterranean region" did I?

 

[LeroyDumonde]

Jesus was a Jew, and throughout the Hebrew Bible, there are reminders how they, too, were once slaves. Their culture was reminded of this time in their history each year at Passover. Since Jews were once enslaved, it should not be hard to predict what any Jew would say about slavery. Ever before them is God freeing them from slavery. Jews are commanded to be faithful and just, as God is faithful and just. God freed them, and eventually, remembering this, Jews were able to do the same.

Jews made a lot of money off the slave trade, so yeah, it's pretty easy to tell what their position on slavery is.