Hatred of unions

[jasonnfree]

Why the hatred for unions from the right wing? This is a fairly recent attitude in our history from what I can remember. I remember working in non union shops in Texas in the 60's as a welder and the old timers advised me to try to get in a union if I wanted to make good money. Now unions are called communists by the right wingers. If those words were used back in the 50's and 60's there would have been problems. I believed any number of union men back then including my uncles who were also vets of WW2 would have knocked someone's block off for talking like that. After all, the corporations have their unions (job protection). It's called most politicians in their pocket and also the U.S. Supreme court. How ridiculous can it get that Exxon can be a citizen? Never dies, can break up into dozens of holding companies and live in different countries to beat paying taxes, never get drafted, never go to jail, and yet a union worker or teacher receives nothing but scorn? I wonder if the great generation would now say "Yes, this is what we fought for"?

Private sectorUnions were great up to the 60's but then they just became what they were fighting in the first place Its not just right wingers the numbers dont lie. In 1983 20.1% of all workers were members of a union and in 2011 11.8% of America's employed were union members.

Union Membership at All Time Low | The Economic Populist
and its not even just America.....

Trade union membership falls to all-time low in Poland - National

In 1991, 19 percent of workers were also members of trade unions such as Solidarity or OPZZ. Just one-in-three respondents told a CBOS survey taken in April that there was a trade union active in their workplace and just 16 percent told the pollster that they thought that unions were effective in advancing workers' pay and conditions.

I've seen the union membership shrink also due to offshoring of manufacturing. There's more possibility of a large factory being unionized than small retail and independent contractors. Also I know that some unions weren't even representing the unions anymore and workers weren't taking part in meetings even. Everybody gets fat and lazy when times are good. But the corporate class never stops thinking of ways of squeezing the most profit. They owe this to their shareholders. And who represents workers today? Your own hard work? How did that help the hard workers during the great depression when there was few jobs and no money?

 

[jasonnfree]

Other countries that outperform our schools have unions. Japan, Finland, Germany for example. Germany has a thriving manufacturing base and they're more unionized than we are. Of course they don't send all their business to china either. America is the most productive country still, but the working class hasn't taken part in the payback for productivity. Unions traditionally helped workers wages keep up with inflation. Wages have been flat since at least the 80's. Thank reagan for that. This animosity towards unions and goverment started with reagan. "'I'm here from the government and I'm here to help", the nine hated words, and the public bought this stuff hook line and sinker. Reagan also had practice in selling stuff on tv some of you oldsters might remember and people trusted this representative of the very wealthy and corporations.

The animosity for unions did not start with Reagan. Unions have been destroying their own premise since they adopted the thug practices of intimidation, corruption, and bribing government lackeys. They have further destroyed their own premise by taking an automatic adversarial stance against the owners and managers of companies they work with.

But the hatred of unions and government started in right after reagan. Prior to that people didn't rant about unions or government. Reagan started this and hate radio picked up the ball and ran with it.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Other countries that outperform our schools have unions. Japan, Finland, Germany for example. Germany has a thriving manufacturing base and they're more unionized than we are. Of course they don't send all their business to china either. America is the most productive country still, but the working class hasn't taken part in the payback for productivity. Unions traditionally helped workers wages keep up with inflation. Wages have been flat since at least the 80's. Thank reagan for that. This animosity towards unions and goverment started with reagan. "'I'm here from the government and I'm here to help", the nine hated words, and the public bought this stuff hook line and sinker. Reagan also had practice in selling stuff on tv some of you oldsters might remember and people trusted this representative of the very wealthy and corporations.

The animosity for unions did not start with Reagan. Unions have been destroying their own premise since they adopted the thug practices of intimidation, corruption, and bribing government lackeys. They have further destroyed their own premise by taking an automatic adversarial stance against the owners and managers of companies they work with.

While reactionaries have always been against unions, the actual fact and historic record shows public support for US unions declined significantly FOR THE FIRST TIME during the voodoo years when people probably not too bright were sold a bill of goods claiming unified labor has no place negotiating with the unified managers of stockholders. It isn't possible for anything too bad to happen to people that malignantly foul.

 

[The Rabbi]

In the 1930s and especially after WWII in the 1950s, the big boogey man the Right loved to smack around were communists and socialists. With the advent of "Free trade" the supply siders (Reagan foremost among them) turned on trade unions.

Seems that union labor would not have the appetite to outsource work, shutter plants and take the profits from cheap foreign labor.

Back in the 30s, the communists were essentially the only group advocating for the common man. Then trade unions took the banner and the middle class thrived. That vibrant middle class made the customer base for all the products produced by big corporations.

Today, the greed that is essentially the grease of Capitalism sees the middle class as expendable. Too costly to maintain. A drain on the share of profits that should be going to the board room and not distributed on kitchen tables all across America.

Are right wingers complicit in the demise of the middle class? Absolutely. Is this demise something that will benefit the country in the long run? Absolutely. But long run thinking is something Capitalists do not do. Not when there are bonus checks to pick up right now.

Wow, Where do they teach that exactly?

In the real world unions were generally anti-communist and pro American, although commies were always trying to infiltrate them. What changed was the 1960s-1970s when unions negotiated outsize benefits for themselves and made the industries they worked in uncompetitive. Railroads, steel, autos, mining--all of them suffered from foreign competition and the companies in those industries had to shutter plant after plant since they lacked the capital to modernize after paying grossly inflated wages.
Since unions lower wages of non union workers, the "decline of the middle class" (which hasnt happened) is not because of the unions. Instead unions contributed to it.
I guess "right wingers" are not members of the middle class.
Then again, this is history as told by a toilet inspector so expecting accuracy is wrong.

 

[Eric Cartman]

I guess "right wingers" are not members of the middle class.
Then again, this is history as told by a toilet inspector so expecting accuracy is wrong.

They have just been targeted by anti-union propaganda so long through talk-radio and other venues that they actually believe ideas that are not in their best interest or in the interest of the country.

 

[The Rabbi]

I guess "right wingers" are not members of the middle class.
Then again, this is history as told by a toilet inspector so expecting accuracy is wrong.

They have just been targeted by anti-union propaganda so long through talk-radio and other venues that they actually believe ideas that are not in their best interest or in the interest of the country.

Wow you sure have a healthy respect for talk radio.

In fact the decline of unions preceded the rise of talk radio. So I guess you're still batting zip here.

 

[Eric Cartman]

I guess "right wingers" are not members of the middle class.
Then again, this is history as told by a toilet inspector so expecting accuracy is wrong.

They have just been targeted by anti-union propaganda so long through talk-radio and other venues that they actually believe ideas that are not in their best interest or in the interest of the country.

Wow you sure have a healthy respect for talk radio.

In fact the decline of unions preceded the rise of talk radio. So I guess you're still batting zip here.

Unions declined because Congress was bought off by big business in 1947 and they passed the Taft Hartley act.

Many people's attitudes changed about unions because of the influence of talk radio IMO.

 

[The Rabbi]

They have just been targeted by anti-union propaganda so long through talk-radio and other venues that they actually believe ideas that are not in their best interest or in the interest of the country.

Wow you sure have a healthy respect for talk radio.

In fact the decline of unions preceded the rise of talk radio. So I guess you're still batting zip here.

Unions declined because Congress was bought off by big business in 1947 and they passed the Taft Hartley act.

Many people's attitudes changed about unions because of the influence of talk radio IMO.

Um, thats why union membership peaked 8 years later?

You're just not terribly well informed, I think.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Wow you sure have a healthy respect for talk radio.

In fact the decline of unions preceded the rise of talk radio. So I guess you're still batting zip here.

Unions declined because Congress was bought off by big business in 1947 and they passed the Taft Hartley act.

Many people's attitudes changed about unions because of the influence of talk radio IMO.

Um, thats why union membership peaked 8 years later?

You're just not terribly well informed, I think.

You're not so good at interpreting a chart, I think. Or at understanding the short and long term effects off the Act.

 

[AmazonTania]

Other countries that outperform our schools have unions. Japan, Finland, Germany for example. Germany has a thriving manufacturing base and they're more unionized than we are. Of course they don't send all their business to china either. America is the most productive country still, but the working class hasn't taken part in the payback for productivity. Unions traditionally helped workers wages keep up with inflation. Wages have been flat since at least the 80's. Thank reagan for that. This animosity towards unions and goverment started with reagan. "'I'm here from the government and I'm here to help", the nine hated words, and the public bought this stuff hook line and sinker. Reagan also had practice in selling stuff on tv some of you oldsters might remember and people trusted this representative of the very wealthy and corporations.

The animosity for unions did not start with Reagan. Unions have been destroying their own premise since they adopted the thug practices of intimidation, corruption, and bribing government lackeys. They have further destroyed their own premise by taking an automatic adversarial stance against the owners and managers of companies they work with.

But the hatred of unions and government started in right after reagan. Prior to that people didn't rant about unions or government. Reagan started this and hate radio picked up the ball and ran with it.

You've never heard of Barry Goldwater? People have always had their opinions about Government, and unions.

But I suppose blaming Reagan makes it easier.

 

[AmazonTania]

Freedom to assemble.
Freedom to associate.
Freedom to negotiate contracts. (including exclusive supply of labor contracts and how terminations are handled)

Unions dont do any of those things. But nice try.

It amazes me that even though the 'to big to fail' crony capitalist corporations have almost eliminated private sector unions, they have still managed to convince many that unions are the problem.

Corporations have zero to do with why unions have lost so much ground. In the modern age, work is increasingly individualised, as well as compensation. Unions have been stuck in the industrial revolution mentality where everyone is equal and interchangeable, regardless of their human capital. The more autonomy people have, the less people will feel the need for any union.

 

[RamblerBR]

There was a time when the need for unions may have been necessary. During the 19th and early 20th century wages and working conditions were, indeed, horrible and the unions that arose to combat those situations did force companies to change giving the workers reasonable wages, establishing reasonable work schedules, making work environment safer, etc..
The problem is that the unions have outlived themselves and their usefulness.
Today, unions are about unions and not the members.

Today, the unions exist only to perpetuate the union!!

 

[MeBelle]

It amazes me that even though the 'to big to fail' crony capitalist corporations have almost eliminated private sector unions, they have still managed to convince many that unions are the problem.

Tell that to Hostess.

Wow. Thousands of non-union business go under every year, who do you blame for those?
Hostess failed because:

1 Their sales were tanking.
2 Management agreed to overly generous labor contracts (based on the current market).
3 Several strategic mistakes from management.

The unions did agree to give up 110 million a year in compensation. I doubt any of their other suppliers were willing up as much.

I am sure that any company will have a better chance of survival if their workers agree to work for low wages. Go tell your boss you want a pay cut.

1. Wrong
2. Management agreed to overly generous labor contracts-About 80 percent of the company’s 19,000 employees belong to a dozen separate unions.
3. Whatever that means.

All of the unions involved, except for Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, agreed to cuts.

Hostess, Maker of Twinkies, Files for Bankruptcy - NYTimes.com

I know there is more current information than the link I provided.
I'll leave it up to you to find it.

Go tell your boss you want a pay cut.

 

[The Rabbi]

Unions declined because Congress was bought off by big business in 1947 and they passed the Taft Hartley act.

Many people's attitudes changed about unions because of the influence of talk radio IMO.

Um, thats why union membership peaked 8 years later?

You're just not terribly well informed, I think.

You're not so good at interpreting a chart, I think. Or at understanding the short and long term effects off the Act.

I think better than you. Explain how an act passed in 1947 led to the highest level of union membership 8 years later.
Additionally there were many other factors at work in the post war period, like deindustrialization and automation.

 

[sitarro]

It isn't the right that hates unions. Unions are hated by a majority of people. That's why union membership has been dropping across the country and the shift in states is toward right to work.

What happened? That's the question. Unions were very beneficial at one time. They certainly did improve wages and working conditions. As the unions got more powerful they became greedy for the benefit of union bosses. The unions married politicians and created what's been called "unholy alliances". Worker's paid into unions, who used those dues to support politicians, who used their office to benefit the unions. Now there is a revolution with Americans who now hate unions.

The majority of the people hate unionized nurses, cops and firefighters? Judging by the reaction of the people following the Friday after the Boston bombing they couldn't show them enough love. The unionized hospital staffs saved the lives of so many victims because they worked tirelessly well beyond the end of their official shifts.

When the US Airways flight ditched in the Hudson river it was unionized airline pilots that kept everyone alive and a unionized aircrew who got them all out to safety and unionized river boat crews that came to their rescue.

The unionized first responders who are always there following disasters like tornados, hurricanes and floods are not "hated by a majority of people". They are only "hated" by the small minority who don't want to pay them a living wage and who don't respect the hard work they put in day in and day out.

The problem with union flacks is they give all the credit to the union when all a union is , is an overpaid club. That pilot had no other choice but to put that pile of shit air-bus into the river, the lousy computer shut down his engines........ any decent pilot would have done the same thing under the circumstances......... he landed the plane in the water, big fucking deal. It was his company's training and not that lousy ALPA that gave him the knowledge to do what he did......the union just takes thousands a year from him.
I'm in a union and it's a joke, a waste......they are good for saving the jobs of the worst workers at the company, topped out senior people that don't put out the day's work of a new hire.
There is no excusing unions, they are absolutely useless and I hate the idiots that my imbecile fellow coworkers were stupid enough to vote in.

 

[asterism]

Other countries that outperform our schools have unions. Japan, Finland, Germany for example. Germany has a thriving manufacturing base and they're more unionized than we are. Of course they don't send all their business to china either. America is the most productive country still, but the working class hasn't taken part in the payback for productivity. Unions traditionally helped workers wages keep up with inflation. Wages have been flat since at least the 80's. Thank reagan for that. This animosity towards unions and goverment started with reagan. "'I'm here from the government and I'm here to help", the nine hated words, and the public bought this stuff hook line and sinker. Reagan also had practice in selling stuff on tv some of you oldsters might remember and people trusted this representative of the very wealthy and corporations.

The animosity for unions did not start with Reagan. Unions have been destroying their own premise since they adopted the thug practices of intimidation, corruption, and bribing government lackeys. They have further destroyed their own premise by taking an automatic adversarial stance against the owners and managers of companies they work with.

But the hatred of unions and government started in right after reagan. Prior to that people didn't rant about unions or government. Reagan started this and hate radio picked up the ball and ran with it.

Not according to my grandfathers. Neither had anything good to say about unions after 20-30 years in them. Look up some history of why the Taft-Hartley Act was passed in 1947.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Um, thats why union membership peaked 8 years later?

You're just not terribly well informed, I think.

You're not so good at interpreting a chart, I think. Or at understanding the short and long term effects off the Act.

I think better than you. Explain how an act passed in 1947 led to the highest level of union membership 8 years later.
Additionally there were many other factors at work in the post war period, like deindustrialization and automation.

For starters your graph conveniently chops off the years before the act. If you will notice union membership was skyrocketing in the early 40's and plateaued right around the passage of the T/H Act and then hung close to 35% for about 8 years and then it started a downward slide that is still going on today. At the time unions were tremendously powerful , well financed and weren't about to fade away in one year but their huge growth was over. The folks that were already in unions were in multi-year contracts and weren't initially impacted as much as the people trying to form new unions. The T/H act also opened the door to the states to pass several anti-labor law and this practice is still going on but it didn't all happen over night. The business of union-busting sprung up a few years latter turning union avoidance (with the help of the T/H Act) into an art form.

Not only does it seem obvious that T/H Act hurt unions by looking at the numbers but you can read it and tell that it would hurt unions and that is the reason they passed it... it wasn't a secret.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The rampant misinformation about unions is being driven by the 1%.

Same as the lies we're seeing bout ObamaCare which was the brainchild of the the Heritage Foundation and the likes of Romney. Obama wanted to improve it, make it work for "everyman" by having a single payer but the 1% fought that and won.

Just as they are now fighting against a livable wage for the working class.

What is so terrible, so heartrending is that its the working class who are cutting their own throats by gutting unions. Just as they agreed to ObamaCare without the single payer.

There will always be fools who will buy into any crap that Madison Avenue or Congress sells them.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

More about unions and the people who fought for the benefits that we now take for granted AND that teepubs will take away from us if they can -

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean-debate-zone/296438-a-true-american-hero.html

 

[Caroljo]

It isn't the right that hates unions. Unions are hated by a majority of people. That's why union membership has been dropping across the country and the shift in states is toward right to work.

What happened? That's the question. Unions were very beneficial at one time. They certainly did improve wages and working conditions. As the unions got more powerful they became greedy for the benefit of union bosses. The unions married politicians and created what's been called "unholy alliances". Worker's paid into unions, who used those dues to support politicians, who used their office to benefit the unions. Now there is a revolution with Americans who now hate unions.

Yes...Unions were needed at one time. But today, there are many laws out there that protect workers. And any good company would want to pay their workers well, and have good work conditions....they know to keep good workers you need to make them happy and to enjoy their work. If they don't think that, they won't be in business very long.
Plus the fact that the greedy bosses just use the money any way THEY want....including expensive "meetings".