Hate The Sin, Love The Sinner?

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by NATO AIR, Jul 13, 2004.

  1. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    i'm trying to figure this out

    i don't much appreciate the idea of gay marriage, but i also feel people should be free to enter into whatever relationships (that don't involve minors) they feel are right for them and not violently harmful to society. above all else, i want the states to handle this obviously contentious issue, not a highly politicized congress.

    i have a serious problem with many on the religious right who seem to want to exclude gays from society, not only in preventing them to marry, but in condemning them and many other manners, almost like some of them are acting like if they just condemn gays enough, they'll dissapear or go away. this disturbs me greatly, as it seems unrealistic and mean-spirited, i don't mean to pick a fight, but how can people justify this sort of condemnation and disgust towards a group of people?

    i just read a book about the religious aspects of the civil rights movement from both sides (a stone of hope), and it seems that i heard many of the same arguments against blacks and inter-racial marriage in the 50's/60's as i now hear against gays and gay marriage.

    please fill me in on your honest opinions and please help me to figure all this out.
     
  2. menewa
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    menewa Member

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    The government telling someone they cannot get married because they are of the same sex is the biggest infringement on civil liberties since the War on Drugs began.

    Like you say, homosexuality is not going away. It has been here at least since people began recording history. In fact, I get upset when you see Bush and others say it goes against our civilization's values. For, I'm sure you know, our Western society and culture is based a lot on that of the Greco-Roman world. These societies make Queer Eye for the Straight Guy look like All in the Family.

    That's interesting you point out some similarities between the civil rights movement and the gay marriage movement. I see this too. But many in the black community today have been upset over this comparison. In fact, in some Southern states, some blacks have been seen switching to the Republican party simply becasue of this issue.

    However, they seem to have forgotten Bayard Rustin. He was huge in the civil rights movement. In fact, he helped in forming MLK,Jr.s tactics of non-violent protest. For he had been to India and learned all he could about the non-violent techniques employed by Ghanidi to oust the Brits. But I bet you've never heard of him. That's because he was a gay black man. He took hell for it back then and his name is not much mentioned in books on that dark but brave era in our history. But Rustin went on to fight for gay rights long after the battles against segregation had been won. You should look him up if you've never heard of him. He was a great American.
     
  3. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    Christians condemn homosexuality because it is clearly forbidden in the Bible by God.

    However, some Christians go further and condemn homosexuals themselves, as if they were second-class people. That is not right. While we, as Christians, can certainly judge people's actions according to the Bible, we are not to pass judgement on people by saying they are unsavable (as the God Hates Fags movement does). We are supposed to show the same love towards people that God shows towards them - and us - and not hate people simply because they are unrepentant in their ways.
     
  4. freeandfun1
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    freeandfun1 VIP Member

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    me, pesonally, I don't have problems with gays. I live by the motto live and let live and I am a Christian.

    I am against gay marriage but not against Legal Unions. Out of nothing more than tradition, I believe that we shold not start screwing with the definitions of words just to make some group feel good.
     
  5. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    some great views, i'm glad you aren't like some of those folks gopjeff.... we need more like you, because everytime i discuss this with people in the US, i get this powerful hatred from some people for homosexuals that sends chills down my spine. i cannot imagine feeling such a hatred or contempt for another group.

    i am tired of the thirst to divide people that is ripping this country apart, and sadly, these culture warriors are going to have a feast this year by making this a social hot topic and turn all this into a simple yes or no issue when it is so much more complex.

    live and let live indeed, sadly i don't think that's gonna get fair play this year.
     
  6. Shazbot
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    I don't get it. Do you want to legalize all drugs? (Yeah, I know it's off-topic...ignore if you please :))

    -Douglas
     
  7. menewa
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    menewa Member

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    You said it all with the word "divide." This is nothing but divide and conquer strategy being used by the Bush campaign. He knows this gay marriage ban will never be fused into our great constitution. But he does know it's a great way to fuel hate and get a few more votes for his side. That's pretty despicable in my opinion.
     
  8. Hobbit
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    Hobbit Senior Member

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    I, personally, find homosexuality to be far less than palatable, and quite an abonimable practice. However, no sin is unforgivable, and God commands us to love our neighbors as ourselves. As such, I do not hate gays. I even have some friends who are gay. However, I'll never forget why sodomy is called sodomy.

    Side not for those not well versed in the Bible: Sodom was an ancient city where Lot, the nephew of Abram (before he became Abraham) lived. According to scripture, God told Abram to get Lot out of Sodom, since it and the neighboring city of Gamorrah were going to be destroyed by fire from heaven "because their sin was grave." Abraham asked God if he would spare Soddom if there were ten righteous people in the city (he started at 50 and went down from there). God said he would, but that there were not ten righteous people there, since Lot and his family were the only ones that were righteous. When the angels came to rescue Lot, they appeared in the form of young men, and after Lot took them into his home, the men of Soddom quite blatantly asked him to toss the two men outside so they could have sex with them. Lot offered them his virgin daughter instead (quite sameful, but he was quite determined to protect these men, whom he believed were holy), but they refused. After they left, God destroyed Sodom and Gamorrah in a rain of fire, and told Lot and his family not to look back the who way back to Abraham's home, but Lot's wife looked back and was turned into a pillar of salt. Because of their attitude towards the angels, it is assumed that rampant homosexuality is one of the reasons Sodom was destroyed, which is why Sodomy is called such. One thing is undeniable, though. Scripture portrays Sodom as so evil that a woman was killed simply for looking at it while it was burning.
     

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