Hate crimes against "the homeless"

[George Costanza]

What data backs this claim up? And details if you will. How are they victimized by the majority?

How many white guys you ever hear about that died on the end of a rope with a mob of black guys, all wearing white robes and hoods, standing around laughing? How often do you hear about a nation of jews killing six million nazis? How often do you hear about a gay guy dousing a straight guy with gasoline and setting fire to him just because he's straight?

Why should anyone be considered “more worthy” of greater legal protection?

I can't remember where I got this, but it answers your question very well, I think:

"Hatred causing violence is a social problem of sufficient scope and persistence to require special measures by legislators and law enforcement to secure the safety of the groups targeted by hate crimes. One who can be moved to violence by hatred of a class of people presents greater a danger to society than one who merely hates an individual. If normal punishments are inadequate deterrents, then additional punishments may deter crimes motivated by hate. Additionally, hate crimes laws protect all groups, not just minorities and women."

The government is not able to read a person's mind.

They are if the person is leading a mob hanging a gay person and screaming that the victim is a " God damn faggot!" as he kicks the barrel out from under him.

Virtually all hate crimes that are prosecuted involve very clear statements being made by the perp during the commission of the crime that leave no doubt whatsoever that a hate crime is being committed.

 

[George Costanza]

Why should a homeless person, or person with a different skin color be better protected under the Law than me? I should be afforded the same level of justice as everybody else.

Because, historically, persons with a different skin color (and members of the other protected classes in hate crime statutes) have been victimized by the majority much more so than the other way around.

So you are OK with the divisive nature of hate crime legislation? I should not be afforded the same protections under the Law because long before I was alive a white guy acted horrifically against a black guy... One word for you George... Absurd.

I would submit that the commission of hate crimes is infinitely more divisive than laws designed to prevent them. If anything is absurd, it is your post here.

 

[Againsheila]

Why should a homeless person, or person with a different skin color be better protected under the Law than me? I should be afforded the same level of justice as everybody else.

Because, historically, persons with a different skin color (and members of the other protected classes in hate crime statutes) have been victimized by the majority much more so than the other way around.

Whites of European ancestry are rapidly becoming a minority in this country. Already in our city, whites only make up 30% of our population. If you take away the immigrants from the former Soviet Union, it's even less.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why should a homeless person, or person with a different skin color be better protected under the Law than me? I should be afforded the same level of justice as everybody else.

Because, historically, persons with a different skin color (and members of the other protected classes in hate crime statutes) have been victimized by the majority much more so than the other way around.

What data backs this claim up? And details if you will. How are they victimized by the majority?

Why should anyone be considered “more worthy” of greater legal protection?

“the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions…” Thomas Jefferson

“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.”
​

The government is not able to read a person's mind.

Why should anyone be considered “more worthy” of greater legal protection?

Nowhere in the statues or case law will you find any reference to someone being “more worthy of greater legal protection.”

This has only to do with punishment as a deterrent: that if the state can prove within the rules of evidence your criminal act was motivated by the race, sexual orientation, social status, etc, of your victim, you may very well be subject to enhanced sentencing.

The government is not able to read a person's mind.

No one ever said it could.

It can take the sworn testimony of a witness, however, or a lawfully obtained recording of the defendant’s intent to commit the crime because of who the victim is.

Why should a homeless person, or person with a different skin color be better protected under the Law than me? I should be afforded the same level of justice as everybody else.

Because, historically, persons with a different skin color (and members of the other protected classes in hate crime statutes) have been victimized by the majority much more so than the other way around.

So you are OK with the divisive nature of hate crime legislation? I should not be afforded the same protections under the Law because long before I was alive a white guy acted horrifically against a black guy... One word for you George... Absurd.

Nonsense.

As already noted, the Mitchell case involved a black on white crime.

Enhanced sentencing guidelines are ‘divisive’ only to those obsessed with the idiotic notion of ‘reverse discrimination.’

 

[George Costanza]

Why should a homeless person, or person with a different skin color be better protected under the Law than me? I should be afforded the same level of justice as everybody else.

Because, historically, persons with a different skin color (and members of the other protected classes in hate crime statutes) have been victimized by the majority much more so than the other way around.

Whites of European ancestry are rapidly becoming a minority in this country. Already in our city, whites only make up 30% of our population. If you take away the immigrants from the former Soviet Union, it's even less.

Oh, I agree completely. In a Los Angeles suburb near to the town where I live, the population is 85% Hispanic. I can go into a Costco that probably has several hundred people in it at least, and not see another white person.

This, of course, has nothing to do with hate crime legislation, as hate crime statutes do not single out any one race or class of people. They merely provide enhanced punishment for crimes committed in whole or in part because of bias against ANY race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, and/or type of disability.

Notice the laws do not set forth a particular race, religion, ethnicity or any other of the listed classifications. They don't say: "Any crime commited against a black person because he or she is a black person, is a hate crime." That would clearly violate Equal Protection. The way the laws are worded, ANY crime committed against ANY of the listed designations because of a bias against the involved designation, is a hate crime. Hence, blacks can commit hate crimes against whites, gays can commit hate crimes against heterosexuals, etc.

 

[Dreamy]

How come preying on children does not fall under the hate crime umbrella?

How come serial killers who prey on certain types of women are not charged with hate crimes?

See, this is my problem with this. Who get included and who gets excluded and who decides and why?

 

[Montrovant]

Does anyone have any evidence that hate crime legislation has been useful as a deterrent?

Is there any reason it must involve specific groups rather than some kind of general guideline; i.e. if it can be proven that the criminal committed his/her acts because of some form of bigotry, extra sentencing is warranted?

 

[MikeK]

Not clear what you are positing here because of the last phrase, "except for the fact that they were white."

If the black guy's murdering of the two white kids was motivated in whole or in part by the fact that the victims were white, then it is a hate crime.

But how do you prove it? (I'm not going to quit until I get an answer!)

Hate is an emotion -- a feeling. Can you describe that feeling? Will your description of that feeling conform with that of others? And once we agree on exactly what the feeling of hate is, without a confession how do you prove it was the motivating factor in a crime? How do you prove what the accused was thinking at a given time?

Or are you moving toward granting exceptionally protected status to certain groups, in which case any offense against a member of these groups will be considered a "hate crime?"

 

[ScienceRocks]

Maybe we could give the homeless a decent education.

 

[Noomi]

How come preying on children does not fall under the hate crime umbrella?

How come serial killers who prey on certain types of women are not charged with hate crimes?

See, this is my problem with this. Who get included and who gets excluded and who decides and why?

All good points.

 

[Noomi]

Maybe we could give the homeless a decent education.

Are you volunteering?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Maybe we could give the homeless a decent education.

Why not have a program where PC liberals can sign up to "house" a homeless person? Gets the homeless off the street and in a "safe" environment, and it gives a liberal an opportunity to use their own resources to feel good about themselves

 

[Katzndogz]

Maybe we could give the homeless a decent education.

Why not have a program where PC liberals can sign up to "house" a homeless person? Gets the homeless off the street and in a "safe" environment, and it gives a liberal an opportunity to use their own resources to feel good about themselves

They can take in a guy like this.

Homeless man busted in Times Square subway murder - NYPOST.com

 

[GoneBezerk]

But a white family that ends up in the hispanic or black ghetto in LA and they get robbed or killed....that isn't a hate crime.

A white family made the mistake of driving down the wrong street after a LA Dodgers game and a hispanic gang didn't like them driving through their turf....so they shot up the car and killed at least the driver from what I recall.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Maybe we could give the homeless a decent education.

Why not have a program where PC liberals can sign up to "house" a homeless person? Gets the homeless off the street and in a "safe" environment, and it gives a liberal an opportunity to use their own resources to feel good about themselves

They can take in a guy like this.

Homeless man busted in Times Square subway murder - NYPOST.com

Since he attacked a Korean, I wonder whether the perp will be charged with a hate crime?

 

[gallantwarrior]

But a white family that ends up in the hispanic or black ghetto in LA and they get robbed or killed....that isn't a hate crime.

A white family made the mistake of driving down the wrong street after a LA Dodgers game and a hispanic gang didn't like them driving through their turf....so they shot up the car and killed at least the driver from what I recall.

Not a hate crime unless they were screaming "kill whitey". Could have been the shooters just didn't like the make and model car the people were driving.

 

[Dreamy]

I am curious as to how many people who talk about homeless people actually know one in their own family or circle of friends or have worked with them.

What the media portrays and what is the truth about the complexities of who is out on the streets and why are not always one in the same.

 

[Dreamy]

Why not have a program where PC liberals can sign up to "house" a homeless person? Gets the homeless off the street and in a "safe" environment, and it gives a liberal an opportunity to use their own resources to feel good about themselves

They can take in a guy like this.

Homeless man busted in Times Square subway murder - NYPOST.com

Since he attacked a Korean, I wonder whether the perp will be charged with a hate crime?

According to the hate crime thought police someone(not sure who that "expert" is) has to determine he knocked the guy onto the tracks because of his culture or race.

 

[Katzndogz]

But a white family that ends up in the hispanic or black ghetto in LA and they get robbed or killed....that isn't a hate crime.

A white family made the mistake of driving down the wrong street after a LA Dodgers game and a hispanic gang didn't like them driving through their turf....so they shot up the car and killed at least the driver from what I recall.

How about a family just in their homes decorating the Christmas tree.

Family decorating Christmas tree robbed by three men - Live5News.com | Charleston, SC | News, Weather, Sports

It pays to be armed at all times, even in your own home. Even if the homeowner would have been charged with a hate crime for blowing these thugs away.

 

[MikeK]

Maybe we could give the homeless a decent education.

It would do no good because most of them are either crazy or made unemployable by the criminal record imposed on them by the drug war. And please don't assume that all or even most of that category are addicts. A significant number of them did nothing more insidious than possess or sell marijuana but were otherwise peaceful, decent citizens.