Has Obama just snatched defeat from victory?

[Ernie S.]

(sigh) It's SO hard to carry on a conversation about politics on the political boards. Nobody seems to have a clue about the subject. (sigh)

Translation: Compromise by doing it my way.

Most people here know far more about politics than you do. Your problem is you know so much that just isn't true.

 

[Bfgrn]

The American people are the winners when both sides reach a compromise on taxes and other legislation.

That's the way our political system was designed to work.

True story............

Absolutely. There isn't any question about that except in the minds of the selfish, knuckle-dragging cry babies on both sides who want THEIR way and screw everybody else.

That's patently wrong! One goal of the left, for example is disarming the citizens. Compromise to them, is banning certain classes of weapons and their magazine capacity. The rhetoric used is "What are you afraid of that you need 30 round clips?" or "Do you plan on overthrowing the government and returning blacks to slavery"?
The problem is, this would only serve to make Libs feel better about themselves. It wouldn't do crap about mass shootings. A year or 2 down the road, when a school is shot up by someone with a revolver, they will make themselves feel better by banning all handguns. A few years later, instead of banning all private ownership of firearms, they will offer to compromise on maybe shotguns, or limiting caliber.
They KNOW that passing feel good laws doesn't help, but eventually, they achieve their goal and criminals now are the only people armed and decent people are at the mercy of government intent on stripping our next "inalienable right".

Behold, the typical right wing mind. What science is now revealing was observed centuries ago.

Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone

Conservatives and Liberals Have Different Brains, Studies Show

The studies looked at things like differences between groups’ perception of eye movement, and aversion to threatening noises. Researchers also noted that Democrats had larger anterior cingulate cortexes, which are associated with tolerance to uncertainty, while Republicans had larger right amygdalas, which are associated with sensitivity to fear.

 

[OKTexas]

Yet you admittedly voted twice for an individual who plainly stated his contempt for the Constitution. I find that perplexing.

See? This is the kind of excited bullshit the right practices which irritates the hell out of me. He did not and has not done any such a thing to anybody but the troglodyte patsies who soak up the GOP rumor machine.

If the GOP ever wants my vote again, they'll have to first acknowledge that Barack Obama is legitimately the President of the United States, elected freely and openly by The People and not some conspiratorial, illegitimate usurper.

To absolutely refuse to accept the Will of The People puts the GOP in the position of having contempt for the Constitution, not Barack Obama.

All I can say is you not a well educated as you think you are. You might want to listen to some of his interviews while holding state office. One in particular where he complained that the Constitution was a charter of negative liberties placing too many restraints on government and how the Warren court didn't go far enough to erode those restraints. But the fact he would nominate a person who removed the requirement for Constitutional studies, from the Harvard law curriculum, to the supreme court should have given you pause.

Add to that his spending millions to keep his academic and passport records from us, where we know less about his past than any previous president. These are all facts, you can call they talking points if it makes it easier to live with your decision, but just his record on how he conducted himself in his previous elections was enough to lose my vote. He has never really campaigned on issues, he's always used the Alinski tactics of personal destruction and catchy marketing. Of course it's way too late for anything now, we are stuck with him for another 4 years.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

It's ludicrous for a person to say they subscribe to the Constitution and good government but yet support obama's unconstitutional actions and bad obama government.

Whatever you say. Now...back to regular programming.

Has Obama made a strategic error?

How so?

At this point, all he can do is negotiate with Boehner and Boehner is helpless to do anything at all because, as the line goes, he is being wagged by the tail.

(although, my own opinion is that the GObP has become the tail while the extremist anti-American teepotters are actually running things.)

What people seem to be missing here is that this is exactly what the potters planned. Instead, people seem to believe this is all some sort of big surprise and the pubs didn't know what was happening. Weird, unless rw's really believe their party is very stupid.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Absolutely. There isn't any question about that except in the minds of the selfish, knuckle-dragging cry babies on both sides who want THEIR way and screw everybody else.

That's patently wrong! One goal of the left, for example is disarming the citizens. Compromise to them, is banning certain classes of weapons and their magazine capacity. The rhetoric used is "What are you afraid of that you need 30 round clips?" or "Do you plan on overthrowing the government and returning blacks to slavery"?
The problem is, this would only serve to make Libs feel better about themselves. It wouldn't do crap about mass shootings. A year or 2 down the road, when a school is shot up by someone with a revolver, they will make themselves feel better by banning all handguns. A few years later, instead of banning all private ownership of firearms, they will offer to compromise on maybe shotguns, or limiting caliber.
They KNOW that passing feel good laws doesn't help, but eventually, they achieve their goal and criminals now are the only people armed and decent people are at the mercy of government intent on stripping our next "inalienable right".

Behold, the typical right wing mind. What science is now revealing was observed centuries ago.

Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone

Conservatives and Liberals Have Different Brains, Studies Show

The studies looked at things like differences between groups’ perception of eye movement, and aversion to threatening noises. Researchers also noted that Democrats had larger anterior cingulate cortexes, which are associated with tolerance to uncertainty, while Republicans had larger right amygdalas, which are associated with sensitivity to fear.

That's certainly borne out by their voting record and their unnatural attachment to their guns.

I mean, they're not called gun nuts for nuthin.

OTOH, not all rw's are as extreme or frightened as we see here. I could be wrong but I do believe there are still some true "conservatives" who care about and believe in the old GOP.

 

[Bfgrn]

That's patently wrong! One goal of the left, for example is disarming the citizens. Compromise to them, is banning certain classes of weapons and their magazine capacity. The rhetoric used is "What are you afraid of that you need 30 round clips?" or "Do you plan on overthrowing the government and returning blacks to slavery"?
The problem is, this would only serve to make Libs feel better about themselves. It wouldn't do crap about mass shootings. A year or 2 down the road, when a school is shot up by someone with a revolver, they will make themselves feel better by banning all handguns. A few years later, instead of banning all private ownership of firearms, they will offer to compromise on maybe shotguns, or limiting caliber.
They KNOW that passing feel good laws doesn't help, but eventually, they achieve their goal and criminals now are the only people armed and decent people are at the mercy of government intent on stripping our next "inalienable right".

Behold, the typical right wing mind. What science is now revealing was observed centuries ago.

Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone

Conservatives and Liberals Have Different Brains, Studies Show

The studies looked at things like differences between groups’ perception of eye movement, and aversion to threatening noises. Researchers also noted that Democrats had larger anterior cingulate cortexes, which are associated with tolerance to uncertainty, while Republicans had larger right amygdalas, which are associated with sensitivity to fear.

That's certainly borne out by their voting record and their unnatural attachment to their guns.

I mean, they're not called gun nuts for nuthin.

OTOH, not all rw's are as extreme or frightened as we see here. I could be wrong but I do believe there are still some true "conservatives" who care about and believe in the old GOP.

You're right, I pass by them every day I visit my parents.........at Mt. Calvary cemetery.

 

[jwoodie]

Boehner is a person of limited intelligence with delusions of grandeur, i.e., a big-dog deal maker. The GOP needs to get rid of him ASAP and replace him with someone with a modicum of political acumen. The obvious GOP strategy from the get-go was to say, "Congratulations, Mr. President, the people have spoken and we await the details of your economic plan which you have sold to them." Then wait for a Democratic bill to be introduced and let it pass with all GOP members abstaining. This would make the Democrats responsible for their ridiculous economic propaganda and prevent them from blaming the GOP for spending cuts and "tax cuts for the wealthy."

 

[ilia25]

The President and his advisors may have just made a major mistake in the fiscal cliff and debt ceiling negotiations. In fact, they may have just saved the Republican's bacon.

Obama's "Plan B," the stripped down version he's pushing now, has nothing in it the GOP can't vote against. Oh, some wheeling and dealing might be done which allows them to kick the ball on into next year, but adding in his insistence upon passing some kind of gun legislation immediately has given the GOP leverage they didn't have earlier this week.

By making gun legislation a signature item, attaching his name to it and demanding it be done forthwith, he's handed the GOP a weapon they can beat him to death with. Resisting gun legislation is a no-brainer for the GOP and they lose nothing by refusing to even consider it. Not only that, but they can harvest enormous amounts of political hay because it seems to prove what the Nutter's have been saying all along: "Obama's coming to get your guns!"

Whether or not that's true, it DOES put the House into the position of basically saying, "You want a gun bill? Fine, we'll pass something...BUT you'd better back off on taxing the rich and you'd better offer up some serious budget cuts or your gun bill dies right here." They have nothing to lose and much to gain by holding that position.

Obama never has been a really strong leader and he's not always gotten good political advice from his inner circle. That seems to be the case now and he might have just punked his own hand.

Obama leadership sucks, my only hope he has learned something from 2011.

But I don't think the gun law is a factor here. Obama has a habit of giving up huge concessions even when he has a strong hand. His unpredictable in this respect, and that is the biggest issue.

 

[rightwinger]

The President and his advisors may have just made a major mistake in the fiscal cliff and debt ceiling negotiations. In fact, they may have just saved the Republican's bacon.

Obama's "Plan B," the stripped down version he's pushing now, has nothing in it the GOP can't vote against. Oh, some wheeling and dealing might be done which allows them to kick the ball on into next year, but adding in his insistence upon passing some kind of gun legislation immediately has given the GOP leverage they didn't have earlier this week.

By making gun legislation a signature item, attaching his name to it and demanding it be done forthwith, he's handed the GOP a weapon they can beat him to death with. Resisting gun legislation is a no-brainer for the GOP and they lose nothing by refusing to even consider it. Not only that, but they can harvest enormous amounts of political hay because it seems to prove what the Nutter's have been saying all along: "Obama's coming to get your guns!"

Whether or not that's true, it DOES put the House into the position of basically saying, "You want a gun bill? Fine, we'll pass something...BUT you'd better back off on taxing the rich and you'd better offer up some serious budget cuts or your gun bill dies right here." They have nothing to lose and much to gain by holding that position.

Obama never has been a really strong leader and he's not always gotten good political advice from his inner circle. That seems to be the case now and he might have just punked his own hand.

Republicans will not vote for anything with Obamas name on it.

They will insist on no raise in taxes and no gun legislation

Compromise is not in their playbook even when it is in their best interests

 

[rightwinger]

Boehner is a person of limited intelligence with delusions of grandeur, i.e., a big-dog deal maker. The GOP needs to get rid of him ASAP and replace him with someone with a modicum of political acumen. The obvious GOP strategy from the get-go was to say, "Congratulations, Mr. President, the people have spoken and we await the details of your economic plan which you have sold to them." Then wait for a Democratic bill to be introduced and let it pass with all GOP members abstaining. This would make the Democrats responsible for their ridiculous economic propaganda and prevent them from blaming the GOP for spending cuts and "tax cuts for the wealthy."

Dumbest political strategy ever

Sounds like something Rand Paul would come up with

 

[Toro]

Yet you admittedly voted twice for an individual who plainly stated his contempt for the Constitution. I find that perplexing.

See? This is the kind of excited bullshit the right practices which irritates the hell out of me. He did not and has not done any such a thing to anybody but the troglodyte patsies who soak up the GOP rumor machine.

If the GOP ever wants my vote again, they'll have to first acknowledge that Barack Obama is legitimately the President of the United States, elected freely and openly by The People and not some conspiratorial, illegitimate usurper.

To absolutely refuse to accept the Will of The People puts the GOP in the position of having contempt for the Constitution, not Barack Obama.

I think most Republicans do.

The problem is that the Internet amplifies the nutters, and they seem bigger than they are, though admittedly and disturbingly, it's not an insignificant minority.

 

[mudwhistle]

The President and his advisors may have just made a major mistake in the fiscal cliff and debt ceiling negotiations. In fact, they may have just saved the Republican's bacon.

Obama's "Plan B," the stripped down version he's pushing now, has nothing in it the GOP can't vote against. Oh, some wheeling and dealing might be done which allows them to kick the ball on into next year, but adding in his insistence upon passing some kind of gun legislation immediately has given the GOP leverage they didn't have earlier this week.

By making gun legislation a signature item, attaching his name to it and demanding it be done forthwith, he's handed the GOP a weapon they can beat him to death with. Resisting gun legislation is a no-brainer for the GOP and they lose nothing by refusing to even consider it. Not only that, but they can harvest enormous amounts of political hay because it seems to prove what the Nutter's have been saying all along: "Obama's coming to get your guns!"

Whether or not that's true, it DOES put the House into the position of basically saying, "You want a gun bill? Fine, we'll pass something...BUT you'd better back off on taxing the rich and you'd better offer up some serious budget cuts or your gun bill dies right here." They have nothing to lose and much to gain by holding that position.

Obama never has been a really strong leader and he's not always gotten good political advice from his inner circle. That seems to be the case now and he might have just punked his own hand.

Taxing the rich never was the plan. Making everyone not mind having their own taxes raised was the plan.

Don't underestimate Obama. Well, I can't say Obama....because he's merely the spokesperson for a takeover of the government. There is too much money and too many people involved in this for this all to be on Obama.

Obama is going to use the gun violence angle to turn even more people against the GOP. People that normally wouldn't go along with him. It has now become something everyone can get involved in. MSNBC is starting a movement that focuses on doing good things for our fellow man using Sandy Hook as an inspiration. You're not gonna be a good person unless you show everyone just how you want to do your part. You just watch. They're pushing this bigtime.

 

[edthecynic]

Yet you admittedly voted twice for an individual who plainly stated his contempt for the Constitution. I find that perplexing.

See? This is the kind of excited bullshit the right practices which irritates the hell out of me. He did not and has not done any such a thing to anybody but the troglodyte patsies who soak up the GOP rumor machine.

If the GOP ever wants my vote again, they'll have to first acknowledge that Barack Obama is legitimately the President of the United States, elected freely and openly by The People and not some conspiratorial, illegitimate usurper.

To absolutely refuse to accept the Will of The People puts the GOP in the position of having contempt for the Constitution, not Barack Obama.

All I can say is you not a well educated as you think you are. You might want to listen to some of his interviews while holding state office. One in particular where he complained that the Constitution was a charter of negative liberties placing too many restraints on government and how the Warren court didn't go far enough to erode those restraints. But the fact he would nominate a person who removed the requirement for Constitutional studies, from the Harvard law curriculum, to the supreme court should have given you pause.

Add to that his spending millions to keep his academic and passport records from us, where we know less about his past than any previous president. These are all facts, you can call they talking points if it makes it easier to live with your decision, but just his record on how he conducted himself in his previous elections was enough to lose my vote. He has never really campaigned on issues, he's always used the Alinski tactics of personal destruction and catchy marketing. Of course it's way too late for anything now, we are stuck with him for another 4 years.

Anyone who believes the crap your MessiahRushie and GOP hate media spews is definitely not as well educated as you think you are, or as well read for that matter.

In the actual quote, and not the CON$ervoFascist Brotherhood's perversion of the quote, Obama says the WARREN COURT saw the Constitution as a charter of negative liberties!

Don't you misinformed voters ever check any of your sources??????

 

[jillian]

The President and his advisors may have just made a major mistake in the fiscal cliff and debt ceiling negotiations. In fact, they may have just saved the Republican's bacon.

Obama's "Plan B," the stripped down version he's pushing now, has nothing in it the GOP can't vote against. Oh, some wheeling and dealing might be done which allows them to kick the ball on into next year, but adding in his insistence upon passing some kind of gun legislation immediately has given the GOP leverage they didn't have earlier this week.

By making gun legislation a signature item, attaching his name to it and demanding it be done forthwith, he's handed the GOP a weapon they can beat him to death with. Resisting gun legislation is a no-brainer for the GOP and they lose nothing by refusing to even consider it. Not only that, but they can harvest enormous amounts of political hay because it seems to prove what the Nutter's have been saying all along: "Obama's coming to get your guns!"

Whether or not that's true, it DOES put the House into the position of basically saying, "You want a gun bill? Fine, we'll pass something...BUT you'd better back off on taxing the rich and you'd better offer up some serious budget cuts or your gun bill dies right here." They have nothing to lose and much to gain by holding that position.

Obama never has been a really strong leader and he's not always gotten good political advice from his inner circle. That seems to be the case now and he might have just punked his own hand.

so he won't be elected to a third term?

you have a problem with background checks?

you have a problem with closing the 'gun show' loophole?

you have a problem with limiting the size of clips?

he said "regulation"... he never said 'ban'. other people are talking about another AWB...

if it isn't written any better than the first one, it's a stupid and pointless gesture, anyway.

 

[J.E.D]

Given the fact that House Republicans wouldn't even vote for an increase in taxes on income over $1,000,000, and Obama just dropped his offer back down to 250k from 400k, the gun legislation aspect of Obama's proposal is the least of which the GOP can use as an excuse to vote against it.

 

[J.E.D]

I think your subject line says it all. It isn't about doing what is right for the country it is about winning. That pretty much is the story of Obama's life. No real accomplishments other then winning elections.

We New Yorkers, beg to differ.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_56ox_Zw9w]Time Square party for Osama Bin Laden death - New York 10 - YouTube[/ame]



Were there any other parties in the country?

Just wondering.

Keep spreading the culture of death.

Does it bother you that OBL was killed?

 

[jillian]

Yet you admittedly voted twice for an individual who plainly stated his contempt for the Constitution. I find that perplexing.

See? This is the kind of excited bullshit the right practices which irritates the hell out of me. He did not and has not done any such a thing to anybody but the troglodyte patsies who soak up the GOP rumor machine.

If the GOP ever wants my vote again, they'll have to first acknowledge that Barack Obama is legitimately the President of the United States, elected freely and openly by The People and not some conspiratorial, illegitimate usurper.

To absolutely refuse to accept the Will of The People puts the GOP in the position of having contempt for the Constitution, not Barack Obama.

I think most Republicans do.

The problem is that the Internet amplifies the nutters, and they seem bigger than they are, though admittedly and disturbingly, it's not an insignificant minority.

i heard someone say every village used to have an idiot, but they were alone ... but now, because of the internet, they've all found each other.

 

[007]

The President and his advisors may have just made a major mistake in the fiscal cliff and debt ceiling negotiations. In fact, they may have just saved the Republican's bacon.

Obama's "Plan B," the stripped down version he's pushing now, has nothing in it the GOP can't vote against. Oh, some wheeling and dealing might be done which allows them to kick the ball on into next year, but adding in his insistence upon passing some kind of gun legislation immediately has given the GOP leverage they didn't have earlier this week.

By making gun legislation a signature item, attaching his name to it and demanding it be done forthwith, he's handed the GOP a weapon they can beat him to death with. Resisting gun legislation is a no-brainer for the GOP and they lose nothing by refusing to even consider it. Not only that, but they can harvest enormous amounts of political hay because it seems to prove what the Nutter's have been saying all along: "Obama's coming to get your guns!"

Whether or not that's true, it DOES put the House into the position of basically saying, "You want a gun bill? Fine, we'll pass something...BUT you'd better back off on taxing the rich and you'd better offer up some serious budget cuts or your gun bill dies right here." They have nothing to lose and much to gain by holding that position.

Obama never has been a really strong leader and he's not always gotten good political advice from his inner circle. That seems to be the case now and he might have just punked his own hand.

What do we have here, a zombie coming out of his comma? You just now figuring out Maobama is not a strong leader who has surrounded himself by a bunch of incompetents and academics. Could you really have expected less from an incompetent academic, the old saying that "people that can do and people that can't teach", became an old saying by being true. I just hope the country survives the idiot.

 

[Greenbeard]

Whether or not that's true, it DOES put the House into the position of basically saying, "You want a gun bill? Fine, we'll pass something...BUT you'd better back off on taxing the rich and you'd better offer up some serious budget cuts or your gun bill dies right here." They have nothing to lose and much to gain by holding that position.

Using the deaths of 20 schoolchildren to shield millionaires from modest tax increases? I wouldn't put it past the nutjobs in the House GOP caucus but I certainly wouldn't say "they have nothing to lose."

 

[HUGGY]

Has Obama just snatched defeat from victory?


There was nothing to snatch. The "cliff" is a contrived hoax. Nothing is going to be taken away that matters and the rich are going to have to anti up a bit more. It's really a lot of wrist wringing and teeth knashing over nothing.