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By giving schools more money to set up these programs.
You know throwing money at the problem.
The type of thing the right screams about every time someone tries to fix our schools.
No, idiot, by allowing businesses to set up, and run, the programs, just like they do in Europe.
You know what else has increased exponetially, the number of students.
We have relegated education to the back burner.
The right excoriates teachers and pays them dirt wages.
Proof education is meaningless from the right wing? Who would have thought?
By giving schools more money to set up these programs.
You know throwing money at the problem.
The type of thing the right screams about every time someone tries to fix our schools.
No, idiot, by allowing businesses to set up, and run, the programs, just like they do in Europe.
And to pay for them? Or use socialist funds?
We had somewhat of that kind of system of Vo-Tech schools here in KY. They got sucked into the community college system about 10 years or so ago and now cost 10X as much.
And no longer provide the vocational type of education they once did.
By giving schools more money to set up these programs.
You know throwing money at the problem.
The type of thing the right screams about every time someone tries to fix our schools.
No, idiot, by allowing businesses to set up, and run, the programs, just like they do in Europe.
And to pay for them? Or use socialist funds?
We had somewhat of that kind of system of Vo-Tech schools here in KY. They got sucked into the community college system about 10 years or so ago and now cost 10X as much.
And no longer provide the vocational type of education they once did.
No, idiot, by allowing businesses to set up, and run, the programs, just like they do in Europe.
And to pay for them? Or use socialist funds?
We had somewhat of that kind of system of Vo-Tech schools here in KY. They got sucked into the community college system about 10 years or so ago and now cost 10X as much.
And no longer provide the vocational type of education they once did.
If the business community wants to get the benefit of the program they have to invest in it. I might be willing to allow businesses willing to do so to claim a tax exemption even though it goes against my policy of not using taxes to shape policy.
And to pay for them? Or use socialist funds?
We had somewhat of that kind of system of Vo-Tech schools here in KY. They got sucked into the community college system about 10 years or so ago and now cost 10X as much.
And no longer provide the vocational type of education they once did.
If the business community wants to get the benefit of the program they have to invest in it. I might be willing to allow businesses willing to do so to claim a tax exemption even though it goes against my policy of not using taxes to shape policy.
No tax exemption needed. If it's a cost they bear to train potential employees, they deduct it. If they fund a non-profit, they deduct it.
There is a philosophy in American education that we do not prepare the kids for "something"; we prepare them for "anything and everything". Theoretical magical thinking. What we are doing, is preparing most of them for "nothing".
I teach about 60 seniors right now. Only a handful have applied to four year colleges. Yet if you asked them what they are doing after high school, 90% of them would say "college". They have not even taken the SATs. They are PROGRAMMED with that response, even though they have no idea what it entails.
Many will go on to community college and perhaps a few will finish. But community college is becoming nothing more than the 13th grade, simply because the kids have been offered no other path. It is causing "arrested development" as the Harvard study has claimed.
False promises and wasted tax dollars. If a teacher were ever truly honest with a kid who had a 4th grade reading level that college was not a viable option, he or she would find a letter in their file with a recommendation for "re-education/sensitivity camp". So we lie and wish them luck.
A new report released by Harvard Wednesday states in some of the strongest terms yet that such a college for all emphasis may actually harm many American students keeping them from having a smooth transition from adolescence to adulthood and a viable career
It would be fine if we had an alternative system [for students who dont get college degrees], but were virtually unique among industrialized countries in terms of not having another system and relying so heavily on higher education, says Robert Schwartz, who heads the Pathways to Prosperity project at Harvards Graduate School of Education.
The United States can learn from other countries, particularly in northern Europe, Professor Schwartz says. In Austria, Denmark, Finland, Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, and Switzerland, for instance, between 40 and 70 percent of high-schoolers opt for programs that combine classroom and workplace learning, many of them involving apprenticeships. These pathways result in a qualification that has real currency in the labor market
If we persist with the illusion that everyone is going to college, then were cheating those kids who arent going, Professor Ferguson says. A majority of the workforce does not have a college degree, and a majority of the things those people do are going to continue not requiring a college degree.
Harvard study: Hey, maybe were placing too much emphasis on a college education Hot Air
Really? No shit?
Score one for common sense.
The question is: how do we fix the ridiculous mindset?
By giving schools more money to set up these programs.
You know throwing money at the problem.
The type of thing the right screams about every time someone tries to fix our schools.
hmmm.... I sorta agree with you. more training facilities for trades in high schools is a great idea. business fundamentals training too.
wasnt it the left that did their best to phase out concrete lifeskill training in schools? insisting that everyone should take an academic track and go to college? I don't believe that conservatives would object to reinstating work preparedness in schools, even if they were called evil for supporting it.
I did not say "teaching them nothing" They are "taught" plenty. I said "preparing them for nothing".
How's that community college degree working out for you?
The truth of the matter is that many are not smart enough to go to college and do well - That's just the way it is, and it's not anyone's "Fault." One of the biggest problems this country faces IMO is that we don't exactly know what to do with these individuals; We don't want them to leech off the public dole, but we don't want to protect their jobs from outsourcing, either. It's unfortunate that we have a culture to pressure such people to go to college and inevitably fail out, because they just aren't smart enough - All the effort and dedication in the world will not help. Simply, their natural intelligence is not enough.
As far as the college degree itself- Mini nailed it, it's a proving ground. You're showing that you're intelligent and driven enough to earn the degree, so you're likely to be intelligent and driven enough to do well in a professional work environment. It's a barometer for character. Most people I know aren't even working in the field in which they majored.
Myself - I went to a vocational-style trade school after high school, then became an entrepreneur, then went back to "Real" college while still self-employed, and the college helped me enormously; Management and business theory, economics, business law courses, hell I've even employed things I've learned in statistics and other math courses to my business. But that doesn't mean it's for everyone, and certainly doesn't mean the college grad is automatically the best candidate for the job.
I would agree too many are shoved into 4-year academic colleges. For many fields the academic basis is necessary, for many others a 2-year degree is sufficient, for skilled trades often little classroom instruction is needed at all.
But post-secondary education in general is here to stay. We simply don't have an economy that has much room for unskilled workers, and that's not going to change. What we need to be doing is improving technical and trade school and programs, going back to formalized apprenticeship programs, and coming up with new programs like those in some areas where 2-year community colleges are targeting degrees or certifications in specialties of local interest.
And for goodness' sake, parents need to stop building their kids' college applications in elementary school and believing they or their children are failures if they don't get into Harvard!
People can think and work at the same time.
Not teaching kids the basics and teaching them only what they need to be a low level worker is cheap but stupid.
It's possible to teach physics by analyzing all facets of a modern car. Then the worker not only knows how to produce something but also has a good foundation of Science. Instead, the solution has been to teach them physics in a very boring way which results in someone who barely understands the material and can't fix a car.
That said, there isn't much value to a "thinker" who really doesn't know anything practical and in many cases they never learned how to think or learn, they just regurgitate.
It's possible to teach physics by analyzing all facets of a modern car. Then the worker not only knows how to produce something but also has a good foundation of Science. Instead, the solution has been to teach them physics in a very boring way which results in someone who barely understands the material and can't fix a car.
That said, there isn't much value to a "thinker" who really doesn't know anything practical and in many cases they never learned how to think or learn, they just regurgitate.
And to do these programs you need good teachers who require more payment than the 23,000 a year most starting teachers make.
Not necessarily true, but first you need teachers that know Physics *and* know how to fix a car. How many people with degrees in Education do? The money isn't the immediate problem, it's the structure of the system.
You need an investment in schools to change them and EVERY time in my 50+ years talk of fixing schools comes up the right just ends up screaming "throwing money at the problem" and ends any attempts to make it better.
There's a decent basis for that, education funding has increased exponentially while the quality of the result has sunk. Simply spending more money won't fix it and I don't think our schools need more money, just better priorities in spending the money they have.
I did an internship at a TV repair shop when I was in high school. I fetched tools, held flashlights, and wrote estimates for a few hours a week. It counted as one elective class for my diploma. Along the way, I learned how to fix a TV and received one of the best presentations of electrical circuits. This program did not cost the school one dime but was cancelled. Why do you think they did that?
I think high schools need to be teaching kids how to live in the real world, how to manage money, how to pay hills, basic house hold things like changing a light bulb, etc. have any of you guys spent time with an actual high school student these days? the ones I have dealt with have no clue what is going on in the world and don't have a fucking clue on what it takes to live on their own, high school is doing nothing to prepare them for the real world.
