Harvard accused of bias against Asian-Americans - They need 450 points MORE than blacks on SAT

[Flopper]

Affirmative action not only persecutes white males but also asians. It is a hate crime and why do we let it continue?

Harvard accused of bias against Asian-Americans Fox News

may 16 2015
A complaint Friday alleged that Harvard University discriminates against Asian-American applicants by setting a higher bar for admissions than that faced by other groups.

The complaint, filed by a coalition of 64 organizations, says the university has set quotas to keep the numbers of Asian-American students significantly lower than the quality of their applications merits. It cites third-party academic research on the SAT exam showing that Asian-Americans have to score on average about 140 points higher than white students, 270 points higher than Hispanic students and 450 points higher than African-American students to equal their chances of gaining admission to Harvard. The exam is scored on a 2400-point scale.

The complaint was filed with the U.S. Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights.

“Many studies have indicated that Harvard University has been engaged in systemic and continuous discrimination against Asian-Americans during its very subjective ‘Holistic’ college admissions process,” the complaint alleges.

Harvard has an Affirmative Action Plan that applies to applicants for employment but does not have any such plan for student applicants. Harvard does not have quotas but it does have a diversity policy which is quite general.

In the 1920's Harvard discontinued use of tests as the primary criteria for admissions and moved to a more subjective admission policy. In addition to SAT and ACT scores, other criteria is now used such as; grades, extracurricular activities, recommendations from teachers and evidence of initiative, leadership, contributions to the community, maturity, and character. Often these non-academic criteria eliminate students. Possibly, Asian-American students tend to concentrate more on the pure academics.

 

[Unkotare]

Affirmative action not only persecutes white males but also asians. It is a hate crime and why do we let it continue?

Harvard accused of bias against Asian-Americans Fox News

may 16 2015
A complaint Friday alleged that Harvard University discriminates against Asian-American applicants by setting a higher bar for admissions than that faced by other groups.

The complaint, filed by a coalition of 64 organizations, says the university has set quotas to keep the numbers of Asian-American students significantly lower than the quality of their applications merits. It cites third-party academic research on the SAT exam showing that Asian-Americans have to score on average about 140 points higher than white students, 270 points higher than Hispanic students and 450 points higher than African-American students to equal their chances of gaining admission to Harvard. The exam is scored on a 2400-point scale.

The complaint was filed with the U.S. Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights.

“Many studies have indicated that Harvard University has been engaged in systemic and continuous discrimination against Asian-Americans during its very subjective ‘Holistic’ college admissions process,” the complaint alleges.

Harvard has an Affirmative Action Plan that applies to applicants for employment but does not have any such plan for student applicants. Harvard does not have quotas but it does have a diversity policy which is quite general.

In the 1920's Harvard discontinued use of tests as the primary criteria for admissions and moved to a more subjective admission policy. In addition to SAT and ACT scores, other criteria is now used such as; grades, extracurricular activities, recommendations from teachers and evidence of initiative, leadership, contributions to the community, maturity, and character. Often these non-academic criteria eliminate students. Possibly, Asian-American students tend to concentrate more on the pure academics.

Almost all colleges and universities take such factors into consideration. And no, Asian students don't usually neglect them.

 

[Foxfyre]

How about letting each state set its own education standards. Those that don't give a damn about prestige or excellence or reputation can take the mediocre and poor students into their universities no matter what race, creed, ethnicity etc. they are. And those who think the brightest and best have earned the right to higher education can take the rest regardless of race, creed, ethnicity etc.

If one race or group seems to be over represented in the best and brightest group, then that should be a wake up call to the others that they need to improve their act. If one race or group seems to be over represented in the dumb and dumber group, that should be a wake up call to that group that it needs to improve its act.

But if you want the brightest and best to attend any prestige university, those with the highest grade point average, highest SATs, and with some extra points for life experience should be first come, first served for admission. And hair color, eye color, skin color, or socioeconomic status, or anything else unrelated to education should not factor into that in any way.

No qualifying U.S. citizen should be turned away from any educational institution in favor of a non citizen or lesser qualified applicant.

 

[Foxfyre]

What's wrong with that? You've got "almost exclusively Black Colleges".

Lowering Standards for minorities is Soft Bigotry.

See, I was under the impression that only the best were allowed in the the Ivy leagues. I guess not.

Depends on how you define 'best' I think.

Some get in because of their station in life--to have the son or daughter of a monarch or other royalty or high profile political or social personality, etc. can inspire a university to bend a lot of rules. It is good business because such high profile figures can direct a lot of money to the university.

And some just skip the pomp and circumstance and buy their kid's spot in college because they are rich enough to do that. It's tough for a university to turn down a million dollar endowment or other such gift just because a kid doesn't quite measure up on his/her grade point average or SAT score.

Still others are accommodated because they excel at sports which is a major cash cow for all major universities. Now academic qualifications become even less important.

And of course there is the racial quota to achieve and we won't let a drought in qualified applicants mess up that goal. The cruel part is that those minorities who do qualify are likely to not get any personal credit for that. In the public perception they'll be included with those who got in because of their race and not because they met the academic requirements that others had to meet.

Probably most students getting slots at the most prestigious universities do merit those slots, but who knows? I'm not seeing much more intelligence or capability or competence from those graduating from the prestigious schools when compared to those who went to the state university.

 

[Flopper]

Affirmative action not only persecutes white males but also asians. It is a hate crime and why do we let it continue?

Harvard accused of bias against Asian-Americans Fox News

may 16 2015
A complaint Friday alleged that Harvard University discriminates against Asian-American applicants by setting a higher bar for admissions than that faced by other groups.

The complaint, filed by a coalition of 64 organizations, says the university has set quotas to keep the numbers of Asian-American students significantly lower than the quality of their applications merits. It cites third-party academic research on the SAT exam showing that Asian-Americans have to score on average about 140 points higher than white students, 270 points higher than Hispanic students and 450 points higher than African-American students to equal their chances of gaining admission to Harvard. The exam is scored on a 2400-point scale.

The complaint was filed with the U.S. Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights.

“Many studies have indicated that Harvard University has been engaged in systemic and continuous discrimination against Asian-Americans during its very subjective ‘Holistic’ college admissions process,” the complaint alleges.

Harvard has an Affirmative Action Plan that applies to applicants for employment but does not have any such plan for student applicants. Harvard does not have quotas but it does have a diversity policy which is quite general.

In the 1920's Harvard discontinued use of tests as the primary criteria for admissions and moved to a more subjective admission policy. In addition to SAT and ACT scores, other criteria is now used such as; grades, extracurricular activities, recommendations from teachers and evidence of initiative, leadership, contributions to the community, maturity, and character. Often these non-academic criteria eliminate students. Possibly, Asian-American students tend to concentrate more on the pure academics.

Almost all colleges and universities take such factors into consideration. And no, Asian students don't usually neglect them.

It really depends on the school although all schools claim they use criteria other than SAT/ACTand grades as criteria. However many schools, particular large state universities stick with objective criteria. It's the safest way for administrators and it keeps the school out of court.

Harvard is interested in more than just test scores. They want to add more pictures of alumni presidents, governors, and world leaders to their walls.

 

[Flopper]

How about letting each state set its own education standards. Those that don't give a damn about prestige or excellence or reputation can take the mediocre and poor students into their universities no matter what race, creed, ethnicity etc. they are. And those who think the brightest and best have earned the right to higher education can take the rest regardless of race, creed, ethnicity etc.

If one race or group seems to be over represented in the best and brightest group, then that should be a wake up call to the others that they need to improve their act. If one race or group seems to be over represented in the dumb and dumber group, that should be a wake up call to that group that it needs to improve its act.

But if you want the brightest and best to attend any prestige university, those with the highest grade point average, highest SATs, and with some extra points for life experience should be first come, first served for admission. And hair color, eye color, skin color, or socioeconomic status, or anything else unrelated to education should not factor into that in any way.

No qualifying U.S. citizen should be turned away from any educational institution in favor of a non citizen or lesser qualified applicant.

Employers have recognized for some time that it's smart business to have a diverse workforce - one in which many views are represented. The same holds true for educational institutions. Affirmative action policies don't keep deserving kids out of college. They just may may not get their first choice.

 

[Blackrook]

I thought the point of the Civil Rights Movement was to abolish all discrimination based on race.

 

[Unkotare]

Affirmative action not only persecutes white males but also asians. It is a hate crime and why do we let it continue?

Harvard accused of bias against Asian-Americans Fox News

may 16 2015
A complaint Friday alleged that Harvard University discriminates against Asian-American applicants by setting a higher bar for admissions than that faced by other groups.

The complaint, filed by a coalition of 64 organizations, says the university has set quotas to keep the numbers of Asian-American students significantly lower than the quality of their applications merits. It cites third-party academic research on the SAT exam showing that Asian-Americans have to score on average about 140 points higher than white students, 270 points higher than Hispanic students and 450 points higher than African-American students to equal their chances of gaining admission to Harvard. The exam is scored on a 2400-point scale.

The complaint was filed with the U.S. Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights.

“Many studies have indicated that Harvard University has been engaged in systemic and continuous discrimination against Asian-Americans during its very subjective ‘Holistic’ college admissions process,” the complaint alleges.

Harvard has an Affirmative Action Plan that applies to applicants for employment but does not have any such plan for student applicants. Harvard does not have quotas but it does have a diversity policy which is quite general.

In the 1920's Harvard discontinued use of tests as the primary criteria for admissions and moved to a more subjective admission policy. In addition to SAT and ACT scores, other criteria is now used such as; grades, extracurricular activities, recommendations from teachers and evidence of initiative, leadership, contributions to the community, maturity, and character. Often these non-academic criteria eliminate students. Possibly, Asian-American students tend to concentrate more on the pure academics.

Almost all colleges and universities take such factors into consideration. And no, Asian students don't usually neglect them.

It really depends on the school although all schools claim they use criteria other than SAT/ACTand grades as criteria. However many schools, particular large state universities stick with objective criteria....

Harvard is not unusual in this regard. If you score below a 2100 on the SAT your chances of admission are very slim. However, if you are the nephew of a president or a potentate your ability to overcome such gate-keeping increase significantly.

 

[Foxfyre]

How about letting each state set its own education standards. Those that don't give a damn about prestige or excellence or reputation can take the mediocre and poor students into their universities no matter what race, creed, ethnicity etc. they are. And those who think the brightest and best have earned the right to higher education can take the rest regardless of race, creed, ethnicity etc.

If one race or group seems to be over represented in the best and brightest group, then that should be a wake up call to the others that they need to improve their act. If one race or group seems to be over represented in the dumb and dumber group, that should be a wake up call to that group that it needs to improve its act.

But if you want the brightest and best to attend any prestige university, those with the highest grade point average, highest SATs, and with some extra points for life experience should be first come, first served for admission. And hair color, eye color, skin color, or socioeconomic status, or anything else unrelated to education should not factor into that in any way.

No qualifying U.S. citizen should be turned away from any educational institution in favor of a non citizen or lesser qualified applicant.

Employers have recognized for some time that it's smart business to have a diverse workforce - one in which many views are represented. The same holds true for educational institutions. Affirmative action policies don't keep deserving kids out of college. They just may may not get their first choice.

Well, this person who has been an employer and/or in the position to do hiring and firing didn't look for diversity in hair color, eye color, or skin color. I looked for people with skills sets that we needed to do a job and who would be compatible and work together effectively to accomplish that. As it turned out that produced some diversity, but it wasn't planned. And nobody had to feel like they were seen as the 'token' anything to provide diversity.

 

[Flopper]

Affirmative action not only persecutes white males but also asians. It is a hate crime and why do we let it continue?

Harvard accused of bias against Asian-Americans Fox News

may 16 2015
A complaint Friday alleged that Harvard University discriminates against Asian-American applicants by setting a higher bar for admissions than that faced by other groups.

The complaint, filed by a coalition of 64 organizations, says the university has set quotas to keep the numbers of Asian-American students significantly lower than the quality of their applications merits. It cites third-party academic research on the SAT exam showing that Asian-Americans have to score on average about 140 points higher than white students, 270 points higher than Hispanic students and 450 points higher than African-American students to equal their chances of gaining admission to Harvard. The exam is scored on a 2400-point scale.

The complaint was filed with the U.S. Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights.

“Many studies have indicated that Harvard University has been engaged in systemic and continuous discrimination against Asian-Americans during its very subjective ‘Holistic’ college admissions process,” the complaint alleges.

Harvard has an Affirmative Action Plan that applies to applicants for employment but does not have any such plan for student applicants. Harvard does not have quotas but it does have a diversity policy which is quite general.

In the 1920's Harvard discontinued use of tests as the primary criteria for admissions and moved to a more subjective admission policy. In addition to SAT and ACT scores, other criteria is now used such as; grades, extracurricular activities, recommendations from teachers and evidence of initiative, leadership, contributions to the community, maturity, and character. Often these non-academic criteria eliminate students. Possibly, Asian-American students tend to concentrate more on the pure academics.

Almost all colleges and universities take such factors into consideration. And no, Asian students don't usually neglect them.

It really depends on the school although all schools claim they use criteria other than SAT/ACTand grades as criteria. However many schools, particular large state universities stick with objective criteria....

Harvard is not unusual in this regard. If you score below a 2100 on the SAT your chances of admission are very slim. However, if you are the nephew of a president or a potentate your ability to overcome such gate-keeping increase significantly.

I agree. Harvard, like many smaller elite schools will use grades and SAT scores to cull applicants for further consideration. They then use subjective criteria such as evidence of leadership ability, character, letters of recommendation, and interviews to select about 2,000 for admission.

With this type of selection criteria, the admission committee can certainly select students that would otherwise be rejected without their family influence and money. However, Harvard's policies also makes admission possible for those who have succeeded against incredible odds yet may lack the financial and academic background the school normally requires. Students from very poor families, disable vets, and other that have overcome huge obstacles have been accepted over others that have better academic backgrounds.

For example, Liz Murray who was homeless throughout her high schools career was admitted despite her lack of any personal finances and a lower level of academic achievement. Murray was born to poor and drug-addicted parents, both of whom would later contract HIV. She became homeless just after she turned 15, when her mother died of AIDS, and her father moved to a homeless shelter. She lived on the streets and homeless shelters but was able to graduate from high school, obtain a scholarship and attend Harvard. Her story was published and later made into a movie.

 

[Unkotare]

Again, Harvard is not unique in these processes.

 

[Flopper]

Again, Harvard is not unique in these processes.

College administrators at top schools such as Harvard and Stanford are trying to find talented high school students from poor families in a push to increase the socioeconomic diversity on campus and to counter the growing concern that highly selective colleges cater mainly to students from privileged backgrounds.

When colleges do this, they open themselves up to claims of reverse discrimination from white Americans and Asian-Americans because these groups have family incomes about twice that of black Americans. The safest and easiest admission policy would be to go strictly by a formula of SAT scores and grades. This would eliminate cries of favoritism and discrimination but would such policy be in the best interest of the college and the country?

 

[novasteve]

Why do liberals insist on committing racial discrimination?

 

[Foxfyre]

Again, Harvard is not unique in these processes.

College administrators at top schools such as Harvard and Stanford are trying to find talented high school students from poor families in a push to increase the socioeconomic diversity on campus and to counter the growing concern that highly selective colleges cater mainly to students from privileged backgrounds.

When colleges do this, they open themselves up to claims of reverse discrimination from white Americans and Asian-Americans because these groups have family incomes about twice that of black Americans. The safest and easiest admission policy would be to go strictly by a formula of SAT scores and grades. This would eliminate cries of favoritism and discrimination but would such policy be in the best interest of the college and the country?

Harvard has a 32+ BILLION dollar endowment--the most heavily endowed of all American universities--some of which MUST be used to offer scholarships to lower income people. They aren't doing that to diversify or for any altruistic reasons. They are doing that for financial advantage. In fact because of those lucrative endowments, it has become for more affordable for some lucky kids to attend those prestigious schools while their own state tuitions have climbed out of reach for many. Stanford is the 4th best endowed American university and because of that, one of my kids was able to get a masters and doctoral degree there pretty much on a free (to us) ride--of course the kid had amazing academic qualifications going in. But no way could we have afforded to send a kid to Stanford otherwise especially when we are not among a minority group and don't have an in with any important people.

Probably some minorities don't need as much in academic achievement to merit some of that.

 

[Flopper]

Again, Harvard is not unique in these processes.

College administrators at top schools such as Harvard and Stanford are trying to find talented high school students from poor families in a push to increase the socioeconomic diversity on campus and to counter the growing concern that highly selective colleges cater mainly to students from privileged backgrounds.

When colleges do this, they open themselves up to claims of reverse discrimination from white Americans and Asian-Americans because these groups have family incomes about twice that of black Americans. The safest and easiest admission policy would be to go strictly by a formula of SAT scores and grades. This would eliminate cries of favoritism and discrimination but would such policy be in the best interest of the college and the country?

Harvard has a 32+ BILLION dollar endowment--the most heavily endowed of all American universities--some of which MUST be used to offer scholarships to lower income people. They aren't doing that to diversify or for any altruistic reasons. They are doing that for financial advantage. In fact because of those lucrative endowments, it has become for more affordable for some lucky kids to attend those prestigious schools while their own state tuitions have climbed out of reach for many. Stanford is the 4th best endowed American university and because of that, one of my kids was able to get a masters and doctoral degree there pretty much on a free (to us) ride--of course the kid had amazing academic qualifications going in. But no way could we have afforded to send a kid to Stanford otherwise especially when we are not among a minority group and don't have an in with any important people.

Probably some minorities don't need as much in academic achievement to merit some of that.

Low income at Harvard may not be what you think it is. Families with incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute from 0-10% of their income toward college costs. Families with income less than $65,000 contribute nothing.

How Aid Works Harvard College

 

[Foxfyre]

Again, Harvard is not unique in these processes.

College administrators at top schools such as Harvard and Stanford are trying to find talented high school students from poor families in a push to increase the socioeconomic diversity on campus and to counter the growing concern that highly selective colleges cater mainly to students from privileged backgrounds.

When colleges do this, they open themselves up to claims of reverse discrimination from white Americans and Asian-Americans because these groups have family incomes about twice that of black Americans. The safest and easiest admission policy would be to go strictly by a formula of SAT scores and grades. This would eliminate cries of favoritism and discrimination but would such policy be in the best interest of the college and the country?

Harvard has a 32+ BILLION dollar endowment--the most heavily endowed of all American universities--some of which MUST be used to offer scholarships to lower income people. They aren't doing that to diversify or for any altruistic reasons. They are doing that for financial advantage. In fact because of those lucrative endowments, it has become for more affordable for some lucky kids to attend those prestigious schools while their own state tuitions have climbed out of reach for many. Stanford is the 4th best endowed American university and because of that, one of my kids was able to get a masters and doctoral degree there pretty much on a free (to us) ride--of course the kid had amazing academic qualifications going in. But no way could we have afforded to send a kid to Stanford otherwise especially when we are not among a minority group and don't have an in with any important people.

Probably some minorities don't need as much in academic achievement to merit some of that.

Low income at Harvard may not be what you think it is. Families with incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute from 0-10% of their income toward college costs. Families with income less than $65,000 contribute nothing.

How Aid Works Harvard College

But I wasn't arguing what low income at Harvard is. I was challenging the comment about Harvard taking in the 'poor', however they are classified, to 'diversify' their student census. I am just too jaded to believe that.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

In terms of being accepted to good colleges today, SATs and other standardized tests are almost ignored. They're obsolete.

Academics, personal essays and recommendations are much more relevant.

 

[Unkotare]

In terms of being accepted to good colleges today, SATs and other standardized tests are almost ignored.

No, they are not.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

In terms of being accepted to good colleges today, SATs and other standardized tests are almost ignored.

No, they are not.

I'm gonna go with what the director of admissions at UC Berkeley has told me.

They didn't even ask me for my SAT scores when I transferred.

 

[Flopper]

Again, Harvard is not unique in these processes.

College administrators at top schools such as Harvard and Stanford are trying to find talented high school students from poor families in a push to increase the socioeconomic diversity on campus and to counter the growing concern that highly selective colleges cater mainly to students from privileged backgrounds.

When colleges do this, they open themselves up to claims of reverse discrimination from white Americans and Asian-Americans because these groups have family incomes about twice that of black Americans. The safest and easiest admission policy would be to go strictly by a formula of SAT scores and grades. This would eliminate cries of favoritism and discrimination but would such policy be in the best interest of the college and the country?

Harvard has a 32+ BILLION dollar endowment--the most heavily endowed of all American universities--some of which MUST be used to offer scholarships to lower income people. They aren't doing that to diversify or for any altruistic reasons. They are doing that for financial advantage. In fact because of those lucrative endowments, it has become for more affordable for some lucky kids to attend those prestigious schools while their own state tuitions have climbed out of reach for many. Stanford is the 4th best endowed American university and because of that, one of my kids was able to get a masters and doctoral degree there pretty much on a free (to us) ride--of course the kid had amazing academic qualifications going in. But no way could we have afforded to send a kid to Stanford otherwise especially when we are not among a minority group and don't have an in with any important people.

Probably some minorities don't need as much in academic achievement to merit some of that.

Low income at Harvard may not be what you think it is. Families with incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute from 0-10% of their income toward college costs. Families with income less than $65,000 contribute nothing.

How Aid Works Harvard College

But I wasn't arguing what low income at Harvard is. I was challenging the comment about Harvard taking in the 'poor', however they are classified, to 'diversify' their student census. I am just too jaded to believe that.

Well, they do take in the poor, just their definition of poor is a little different.