Happy Birthday, Jefferson Davis

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Jefferson Davis was born June 3, 1808, and he was the first and only President of the Confederate States of America. He believed in peace, free trade, and the American idea of self-government.

"All we ask is to be let alone." - Jefferson Davis

 

[RockyRacoon]

Jefferson Davis was born June 3, 1808, and he was the first and only President of the Confederate States of America. He believed in peace, free trade, and the American idea of self-government.

"All we ask is to be let alone." - Jefferson Davis

And slavery!

 

[uscitizen]

Both Davis and Lincoln were born in KY.
The only state to have both a north and south state capitol at the same time.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Jefferson Davis was born June 3, 1808, and he was the first and only President of the Confederate States of America. He believed in peace, free trade, and the American idea of self-government.

"All we ask is to be let alone." - Jefferson Davis

And slavery!

Yes, the Confederacy practiced slavery, as did the Union. Neither side has the moral high ground on that issue.

 

[NLT]

Call the boys...Yeee haw its JD's Birfday

 

[RockyRacoon]

Jefferson Davis was born June 3, 1808, and he was the first and only President of the Confederate States of America. He believed in peace, free trade, and the American idea of self-government.

"All we ask is to be let alone." - Jefferson Davis

And slavery!

Yes, the Confederacy practiced slavery, as did the Union. Neither side has the moral high ground on that issue.

Are you serious?! The union, led by Abraham Lincoln and 350,000 dead union soldiers don't have the moral high ground on the issue of slavery? I realize that not everyone in the north was a saint that went off to war to end the suffering of the black man but that is what it was all about and I think the USA can most assuredly claim the moral high ground over the traitors from the CSA.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

And slavery!

Yes, the Confederacy practiced slavery, as did the Union. Neither side has the moral high ground on that issue.

Are you serious?! The union, led by Abraham Lincoln and 350,000 dead union soldiers don't have the moral high ground on the issue of slavery? I realize that not everyone in the north was a saint that went off to war to end the suffering of the black man but that is what it was all about and I think the USA can most assuredly claim the moral high ground over the traitors from the CSA.

Delaware, Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland, and Missouri were all slave states that remained in the Union. If it was all about the "suffering of the black man," then why didn't Lincoln end slavery in those states?

 

[Polk]

Yes, the Confederacy practiced slavery, as did the Union. Neither side has the moral high ground on that issue.

Are you serious?! The union, led by Abraham Lincoln and 350,000 dead union soldiers don't have the moral high ground on the issue of slavery? I realize that not everyone in the north was a saint that went off to war to end the suffering of the black man but that is what it was all about and I think the USA can most assuredly claim the moral high ground over the traitors from the CSA.

Delaware, Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland, and Missouri were all slave states that remained in the Union. If it was all about the "suffering of the black man," then why didn't Lincoln end slavery in those states?

In the middle of a war where they could defect to the other side... hmm, I do wonder why.

 

[KevinWestern]

Jefferson Davis was born June 3, 1808, and he was the first and only President of the Confederate States of America. He believed in peace, free trade, and the American idea of self-government.

"All we ask is to be let alone." - Jefferson Davis

But....

Wasn't he a traitor? And specifically, a traitor who seceded from the United States of America because he and others like him did not want to give up their "right" to have have millions of Africans work unlimited hours, for free, for their own personal profit?

The secession led to a war that cost 600,000+ United States lives...

Why should I wish him happy birthday exactly?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Are you serious?! The union, led by Abraham Lincoln and 350,000 dead union soldiers don't have the moral high ground on the issue of slavery? I realize that not everyone in the north was a saint that went off to war to end the suffering of the black man but that is what it was all about and I think the USA can most assuredly claim the moral high ground over the traitors from the CSA.

Delaware, Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland, and Missouri were all slave states that remained in the Union. If it was all about the "suffering of the black man," then why didn't Lincoln end slavery in those states?

In the middle of a war where they could defect to the other side... hmm, I do wonder why.

Or maybe we could look at what Lincoln actually said instead.

"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."

Lincoln only "freed" the slaves because he wanted to undermine the Confederacy. The border states weren't in the Confederacy, thus no reason to free their slaves.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Jefferson Davis was born June 3, 1808, and he was the first and only President of the Confederate States of America. He believed in peace, free trade, and the American idea of self-government.

"All we ask is to be let alone." - Jefferson Davis

But....

Wasn't he a traitor? And specifically, a traitor who seceded from the United States of America because he and others like him did not want to give up their "right" to have have millions of Africans work unlimited hours, for free, for their own personal profit?

The secession led to a war that cost 600,000+ United States lives...

Why should I wish him happy birthday exactly?

He argued against secession as a Senator from Mississippi, but believed that the right to secession was natural and constitutional so he went along with his state. As to being a traitor, well, I suppose he was a traitor in the same sense that Samuel Adams or Thomas Jefferson were traitors to King George. As to the war leading to 600,000+ deaths, I suppose you should look at who actually wanted the war. That would be Lincoln, not Davis. Davis wanted to secede peacefully, whereas Lincoln was intent on forcing them back into the Union.

 

[Sunni Man]

Jefferson Davis was following he intent of the Constitution which allowed states to secede from the Union.

 

[bayoubill]

Lincoln was an asshole...

but, after the last 50 years, I'm used to having presidents who are assholes...

 

[Polk]

Delaware, Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland, and Missouri were all slave states that remained in the Union. If it was all about the "suffering of the black man," then why didn't Lincoln end slavery in those states?

In the middle of a war where they could defect to the other side... hmm, I do wonder why.

Or maybe we could look at what Lincoln actually said instead.

"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."

Lincoln only "freed" the slaves because he wanted to undermine the Confederacy. The border states weren't in the Confederacy, thus no reason to free their slaves.

I really don't understand this obsession southerners have with trying to claim there was some noble cause by the Civil War. Southerners were afraid Lincoln and the Republicans in Congress were going to end slavery, so they took up arms to protect their "right" to own other human beings like sacks of potatoes. Instead of acknowledging this fact, you try to claim Lincoln was secretly pro-slavery because he didn't say "Yeah, let's go ahead and let these rebels win by giving them a big chunk of additional territory".

 

[Polk]

Jefferson Davis was born June 3, 1808, and he was the first and only President of the Confederate States of America. He believed in peace, free trade, and the American idea of self-government.

"All we ask is to be let alone." - Jefferson Davis

But....

Wasn't he a traitor? And specifically, a traitor who seceded from the United States of America because he and others like him did not want to give up their "right" to have have millions of Africans work unlimited hours, for free, for their own personal profit?

The secession led to a war that cost 600,000+ United States lives...

Why should I wish him happy birthday exactly?

He argued against secession as a Senator from Mississippi, but believed that the right to secession was natural and constitutional so he went along with his state. As to being a traitor, well, I suppose he was a traitor in the same sense that Samuel Adams or Thomas Jefferson were traitors to King George. As to the war leading to 600,000+ deaths, I suppose you should look at who actually wanted the war. That would be Lincoln, not Davis. Davis wanted to secede peacefully, whereas Lincoln was intent on forcing them back into the Union.

The rebels started the conflict by their attack on Fort Sumter.

 

[Katzndogz]

In the middle of a war where they could defect to the other side... hmm, I do wonder why.

Or maybe we could look at what Lincoln actually said instead.

"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."

Lincoln only "freed" the slaves because he wanted to undermine the Confederacy. The border states weren't in the Confederacy, thus no reason to free their slaves.

I really don't understand this obsession southerners have with trying to claim there was some noble cause by the Civil War. Southerners were afraid Lincoln and the Republicans in Congress were going to end slavery, so they took up arms to protect their "right" to own other human beings like sacks of potatoes. Instead of acknowledging this fact, you try to claim Lincoln was secretly pro-slavery because he didn't say "Yeah, let's go ahead and let these rebels win by giving them a big chunk of additional territory".

Of course not! This has to be the result of the lack of American History taught in our public schools. When you get an education and can discuss the Civil War with some degree of knowledge come back. In the meantime, God Bless Jefferson Davis.

I met an honors student from a local high school equally as ignorant. She said the Hitler was a bad man who hated black people and that's why there was a WWII.

Same thing.

 

[Polk]

Or maybe we could look at what Lincoln actually said instead.

"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."

Lincoln only "freed" the slaves because he wanted to undermine the Confederacy. The border states weren't in the Confederacy, thus no reason to free their slaves.

I really don't understand this obsession southerners have with trying to claim there was some noble cause by the Civil War. Southerners were afraid Lincoln and the Republicans in Congress were going to end slavery, so they took up arms to protect their "right" to own other human beings like sacks of potatoes. Instead of acknowledging this fact, you try to claim Lincoln was secretly pro-slavery because he didn't say "Yeah, let's go ahead and let these rebels win by giving them a big chunk of additional territory".

Of course not! This has to be the result of the lack of American History taught in our public schools. When you get an education and can discuss the Civil War with some degree of knowledge come back. In the meantime, God Bless Jefferson Davis.

I met an honors student from a local high school equally as ignorant. She said the Hitler was a bad man who hated black people and that's why there was a WWII.

Same thing.

I can discuss the conflict in great detail. The problem is that you and your fellow southern apologists don't want to look like racist kooks, so you come up with moronic arguments for why the war was secretly about something else.

 

[Greenbeard]

But....

Wasn't he a traitor?

Why yes. Yes, he was.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

In the middle of a war where they could defect to the other side... hmm, I do wonder why.

Or maybe we could look at what Lincoln actually said instead.

"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."

Lincoln only "freed" the slaves because he wanted to undermine the Confederacy. The border states weren't in the Confederacy, thus no reason to free their slaves.

I really don't understand this obsession southerners have with trying to claim there was some noble cause by the Civil War. Southerners were afraid Lincoln and the Republicans in Congress were going to end slavery, so they took up arms to protect their "right" to own other human beings like sacks of potatoes. Instead of acknowledging this fact, you try to claim Lincoln was secretly pro-slavery because he didn't say "Yeah, let's go ahead and let these rebels win by giving them a big chunk of additional territory".

I'm not a southerner, nor do I see any noble cause in the Civil War. All wars, including the Civil War, are simply exercises in mass murder by competing governments. I no more believe the Confederacy was noble and good than I do the Union. My position is merely that the states had and continue to have, though obviously you're free to disagree with me as the Supreme Court does, the right to secede. So with that position in mind, I suppose you could say that I believe the Confederacy was "right." It doesn't matter that some of them seceded in an effort to protect slavery among other reasons, because they have the right to secede regardless of their reason in my view. After all, the colonies practiced slavery and we don't bemoan the fact that they seceded from the British Empire.

As to Lincoln, I don't believe he was "secretly pro-slavery." I believe he was opposed to slavery, but I also believe he was a racist that didn't necessarily care about the slaves at all. He only wanted to stop the spread of slavery into the west so that slaves wouldn't take work away from free white labor. This is also why he wanted to deport all black people out of the U.S. So, like I said, he didn't issue the Emancipation Proclamation out of some noble design to end slavery and end the suffering of black people, but merely to undermine the Confederacy. Europe didn't want to intervene on the side of the Confederacy after Lincoln seemingly made the war about slavery, even though an independent Confederacy would have been in their interests, and it wouldn't have bothered Lincoln had the slaves risen up against the Confederacy to gain the freedom he was offering. If it had been some noble gesture, he would have freed the slaves in the border states and in Confederate cities captured by Union soldiers such as New Orleans. But he didn't, because it wasn't.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

But....

Wasn't he a traitor? And specifically, a traitor who seceded from the United States of America because he and others like him did not want to give up their "right" to have have millions of Africans work unlimited hours, for free, for their own personal profit?

The secession led to a war that cost 600,000+ United States lives...

Why should I wish him happy birthday exactly?

He argued against secession as a Senator from Mississippi, but believed that the right to secession was natural and constitutional so he went along with his state. As to being a traitor, well, I suppose he was a traitor in the same sense that Samuel Adams or Thomas Jefferson were traitors to King George. As to the war leading to 600,000+ deaths, I suppose you should look at who actually wanted the war. That would be Lincoln, not Davis. Davis wanted to secede peacefully, whereas Lincoln was intent on forcing them back into the Union.

The rebels started the conflict by their attack on Fort Sumter.

Which was provoked by Lincoln.