Haditha the new My Lai?

[nosarcasm]

How can you judge 'how strong' the evidence is, when it hasn't been presented?

Hitler was never convicted still I have my opinions.

The marines are not convicted yet, but by what sources to the case say they are guilty.

Conservatives ragged on Clinton. He was not convicted till later. You have
to voice your oppinion. It seems to me this is a genuine case or war crimes.

I don't like it that it happens since I am not an anti American leftist, but it is
my genuine Opinion something bad went down there.


If it turns out nothing happened, I d be happy for that.

But to act like nothing happened till someone is convicted is
disingenious.

Hitler never was convicted for once. And there is no doubt of his guilt.

 

[Annie]

Hitler was never convicted still I have my opinions.

The marines are not convicted yet, but by what sources to the case say they are guilty.

Conservatives ragged on Clinton. He was not convicted till later. You have
to voice your oppinion. It seems to me this is a genuine case or war crimes.

I don't like it that it happens since I am not an anti American leftist, but it is
my genuine Opinion something bad went down there.


If it turns out nothing happened, I d be happy for that.

But to act like nothing happened till someone is convicted is
disingenious.

Hitler never was convicted for once. And there is no doubt of his guilt.

He would have had his chance, at Nuremberg like the rest. It's what we do, like Saddam not being killed in the hidey hole. He should have been, but wasn't. Now the farcial trial.

I do tend to give the military some room, they will prosecute, I just think to give them time to gather facts.

 

[nosarcasm]

He would have had his chance, at Nuremberg like the rest. It's what we do, like Saddam not being killed in the hidey hole. He should have been, but wasn't. Now the farcial trial.

I do tend to give the military some room, they will prosecute, I just think to give them time to gather facts.

Sure the individual deserves the doubt. They have to prove their guilt.

But it seems politically, and thats what I comment on that it is
a case of a warcrime where soldiers in the shadow of war killed civilians.

It is inevitable to happen that the enemy becomes the civilians. there has not been a war where it did not happen. What distincts evil from good is that we prosecute abuses. Nazi Germany did not. Sure it is easy to be patriotic and say who gives a fuck about Iraqis. I dont care about them but discipline
in an army has to be observed. Otherwise war creates more injustice then it cures evil.

I mentioned Clinton who was convicted by the right before his day in court.

I dont know if war crimes occured , but it seems quite likely.

I think if they did, it is good for the honor of America it gets persecuted.
If nothing happened, then we can say, hey we follow accusations. Our honor
is spotless.


I am critical of those assholes that say prosecuting abuses is against American honor. They disgrace you and me.

 

[Annie]

Sure the individual deserves the doubt. They have to prove their guilt.

But it seems politically, and thats what I comment on that it is
a case of a warcrime where soldiers in the shadow of war killed civilians.

It is inevitable to happen that the enemy becomes the civilians. there has not been a war where it did not happen. What distincts evil from good is that we prosecute abuses. Nazi Germany did not. Sure it is easy to be patriotic and say who gives a fuck about Iraqis. I dont care about them but discipline
in an army has to be observed. Otherwise war creates more injustice then it cures evil.

I mentioned Clinton who was convicted by the right before his day in court.

I dont know if war crimes occured , but it seems quite likely.

I think if they did, it is good for the honor of America it gets persecuted.
If nothing happened, then we can say, hey we follow accusations. Our honor
is spotless.


I am critical of those assholes that say prosecuting abuses is against American honor. They disgrace you and me.

Who says that? From all the mil guys I read, if what happened was not justified those that did it should be prosecuted. What Murtha is doing though is trying them in public, with no proof, and acting as judge and jury, with no defense.

 

[nosarcasm]

It seems to me Murtha prevented a coverup. There seems to be clear
evidence of murder.

Bringing it out is not disgracefull if true.

I assume it is, since the man is not one of the usual military haters or muslims scum.

 

[Annie]

It seems to me Murtha prevented a coverup. There seems to be clear
evidence of murder.

Bringing it out is not disgracefull if true.

I assume it is, since the man is not one of the usual military haters or muslims scum.

:shocked: It was already in the news prior to that. What makes you say that?

 

[nosarcasm]

:shocked: It was already in the news prior to that. What makes you say that?

Well it seemed to me that the investigation took headlines
once Murtha said he assumed murder were committed there.

I remember my personal reaction were I wonedered if he is a traitor
or if really someone lost his cool and murdered women and children.

By whay I can perceive it seems something bad happened.

I commend him for making sure it is not under the rug.

 

[Annie]

Well it seemed to me that the investigation took headlines
once Murtha said he assumed murder were committed there.

I remember my personal reaction were I wonedered if he is a traitor
or if really someone lost his cool and murdered women and children.

By whay I can perceive it seems something bad happened.

I commend him for making sure it is not under the rug.

I don't. We should not be trying military in the press, they will deal with it. It's under investigation and the system should be allowed to work. We do as much for Saddam.

 

[nosarcasm]

I don't. We should not be trying military in the press, they will deal with it. It's under investigation and the system should be allowed to work. We do as much for Saddam.

No the military like any government will keep it under the rug if the free press
does not pursue it. And since Fox News talked about murder it seems something really bad went down there.

For me it does not matter in the war on terror. But discipline is what makes
the difference between the US Army and the Russian hordes.

 

[Mr. P]

Who says that? From all the mil guys I read, if what happened was not justified those that did it should be prosecuted. What Murtha is doing though is trying them in public, with no proof, and acting as judge and jury, with no defense.

Murtha is a political opportunist...

OJ was guilty...The jury said NOT.

Time will tell on this one, but it ain't looking good.

 

[nosarcasm]

Murtha is a political opportunist...

OJ was guilty...The jury said NOT.

Time will tell on this one, but it ain't looking good.

Well what does he gain by accusing his own people of war crimes

Over all nothing.

The left my like it.

The center will doubt

The right will hate him

 

[pegwinn]

Murtha is telling it as he thinks it is.

Problem is that he's doing it to make a personal gain. I can't prove that statement anymore than he can prove his.

If, IF those Marines are guilty of violations of the law of land warfare, then they deserve to fry, in oil. IF, they attacked believing that they were in peril, then I am sorry for the dead but that is the fortunes of war.

Notice that the Bn CO was relieved? His career is functionally over no matter the outcome.

Guess we'll see this as an episode of JAG real soon.

 

[nosarcasm]

Murtha is telling it as he thinks it is.

Problem is that he's doing it to make a personal gain. I can't prove that statement anymore than he can prove his.

If, IF those Marines are guilty of violations of the law of land warfare, then they deserve to fry, in oil. IF, they attacked believing that they were in peril, then I am sorry for the dead but that is the fortunes of war.

Notice that the Bn CO was relieved? His career is functionally over no matter the outcome.

Guess we'll see this as an episode of JAG real soon.

Since Murtha claims he saw evidence of atrocities, wouldnt you say it is better for the honor of the marines to convict the guilty and make it public then keep it under the rug.

Kathianne and friends take the hey they are not convicted to the extreme
to excuse war crimes imo

 

[Annie]

Murtha is a political opportunist...

OJ was guilty...The jury said NOT.

Time will tell on this one, but it ain't looking good.

His anti-war agenda. That is what he gains. That group loves him.

 

[pegwinn]

Since Murtha claims he saw evidence of atrocities, wouldnt you say it is better for the honor of the marines to convict the guilty and make it public then keep it under the rug.

Kathianne and friends take the hey they are not convicted to the extreme
to excuse war crimes imo

Surely you are not really this dense? Murtha & evidence? Is this evidence usable in a courts martial? If not, then it aint evidence. I saw a video on TV, nothing in it told me it was genuine.

Kathi and friends are worried about them getting a fair trial. You would like to move straight to sentencing.

 

[nosarcasm]

Surely you are not really this dense? Murtha & evidence? Is this evidence usable in a courts martial? If not, then it aint evidence. I saw a video on TV, nothing in it told me it was genuine.

Kathi and friends are worried about them getting a fair trial. You would like to move straight to sentencing.

Fair trials are a given in civil court imo.

In military court I assume so too overall.

Kathianne does a preemptive they are innocent till convicted defense
In view of the statements by the military she looks like an apologist

I understand she has to defend the military in the pc environment
of the USA , but as a German I am horrified at the idea of accusing
military crimes under the coat of nationalism

 

[pegwinn]

Fair trials are a given in civil court imo. Irrelivent since this is a military charge.

In military court I assume so too overall. Actually a court martial is more fair. But, easier to convict since the jury is of your actual peers. Additionally the jury isn't shaped by people looking for idiots who can't read the papers.

Kathianne does a preemptive they are innocent till convicted defense It's an American thing, you wouldn't understand.

In view of the statements by the military she looks like an apologist A bold assertion. You want to attempt to defend it or are you simply mouthing talking points?

I understand she has to defend the military in the pc environment
of the USA , but as a German I am horrified at the idea of accusing
military crimes under the coat of nationalism

Amazing, I am horrified at the idea of a fellow Marine running off at the suck to score political cool points when he is well versed in the process to get to the bottom of such allegations. But like I said, it's an American thing, you wouldn't understand.

:usa:

 

[nosarcasm]

:usa:

Well I am not an American, so to argue that only Americans can get it
is not quite fair.


If court martial is more fair or more political. Frankly I do not know, what do you think ?

By how I and even Kathianne judges the press and public statements it seems
something bad went down. You pretend nothing happend till someone is convicted is your stand. Try it on Dafur.

You convict Murtha on being anti Marines. What if he tells the truth.
Is he still a traitor in your eyes. If it is the trues he is a hero, if it is false
he is a traitor. Thats my approach.

 

[Annie]

Well I am not an American, so to argue that only Americans can get it
is not quite fair.


If court martial is more fair or more political. Frankly I do not know, what do you think ?

By how I and even Kathianne judges the press and public statements it seems
something bad went down. You pretend nothing happend till someone is convicted is your stand. Try it on Dafur.

You convict Murtha on being anti Marines. What if he tells the truth.
Is he still a traitor in your eyes. If it is the trues he is a hero, if it is false
he is a traitor. Thats my approach.

See his post #31, IF they are guilty....

I said the story doesn't sound good, but I'll wait for the proof to come out. I thought the prison thing was overblown by our allies and enemies and politicians. That does not mean I thing the scum shouldn't have been convicted, just that their level of crimes were not 'atrocities'.

Now killing civilians or prisoners, that is wrong in the most serious sense. The atrocities sense. If they are guilty, they should be gone for a long, long time.

 

[nosarcasm]

See his post #31, IF they are guilty....

I said the story doesn't sound good, but I'll wait for the proof to come out. I thought the prison thing was overblown by our allies and enemies and politicians. That does not mean I thing the scum shouldn't have been convicted, just that their level of crimes were not 'atrocities'.

Now killing civilians or prisoners, that is wrong in the most serious sense. The atrocities sense. If they are guilty, they should be gone for a long, long time.

I am glad we agree discipline in the army has to be enforced and killings
of civilians being minimized. I hope the court procedings will make it known to the civilized world that the US does not treat lightly the killings of children and women.

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