H2O vs. CO2 Yet another observation the AGW Cult will ignore

[CrusaderFrank]

Water vapor is a more powerful GHG that CO2. H2O is Mike Tyson and CO2 is Woody Allen

The "theory" of Manmade Global Climate Warming Change is that the relatively recent CO2 increase from 280 to 420PPM will cause an extinction level event rivaled by the dinosaur killing asteroid. "

But..."Water vapor is Earth’s most abundant greenhouse gas. It’s responsible for about half of Earth’s greenhouse effect — the process that occurs when gases in Earth’s atmosphere trap the Sun’s heat." Steamy Relationships: How Atmospheric Water Vapor Amplifies Earth's Greenhouse Effect – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

If H2O is more powerful where are the studies showing H2O back in 1850? What are they today? Does an additional 100PPM H2O raise temperature more that CO2

 

[CrusaderFrank]

ESRL Global Monitoring Laboratory - Ozone and Water Vapor

Here's a chart from NOAA showing the meteoric rise of H2O these past 35 years. Is H2O melting the polar ice caps?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

H2O is a far bigger problem that CO2! Rather than grind US industry to a halt and expend $78 Trillion in the process, a far more economy friendly solution is to take fewer hot showers!

Who is with me on this?

 

[Billy_Bob]

H2O is a far bigger problem that CO2! Rather than grind US industry to a halt and expend $78 Trillion in the process, a far more economy friendly solution is to take fewer hot showers!

Who is with me on this?

Fewer hot shows won't make any change. This has to do with Downwelling Solar Radation and what is being absorbed by our oceans. IN 2009 the energy going into our oceans decreased. The near level water vapor levels are now in decline as the oceans cool rapidly.

Natural variation... The cooling and decline of water vapor has already started.

 

[Billy_Bob]

ESRL Global Monitoring Laboratory - Ozone and Water Vapor

Here's a chart from NOAA showing the meteoric rise of H2O these past 35 years. Is H2O melting the polar ice caps?

This chart is too short in time span to make any solid assessments on water vapor. All they have is the upswing from a cold point in history. Let's see what happens as we cool the next 30 or so years.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

This chart is too short in time span to make any solid assessments on water vapor. All they have is the upswing from a cold point in history. Let's see what happens as we cool the next 30 or so years.

Yes, but to save the planet we must end hot showers!!

 

[Billy_Bob]

Yes, but to save the planet we must end hot showers!!

NOOOOOOooooooooo stinky planet....

 

[ding]

Clearly water vapor is a pollutant. The EPA should use the Clean Air Act to regulate it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Clearly water vapor is a pollutant. The EPA should use the Clean Air Act to regulate it.

What's your water footprint?

 

[Flash]

Stop peeing. You are contributing to climate change.

 

[Oddball]

ESRL Global Monitoring Laboratory - Ozone and Water Vapor

Here's a chart from NOAA showing the meteoric rise of H2O these past 35 years. Is H2O melting the polar ice caps?

Meteors don't rise.

 

[Crick]

Water vapor is a more powerful GHG that CO2. H2O is Mike Tyson and CO2 is Woody Allen

The "theory" of Manmade Global Climate Warming Change is that the relatively recent CO2 increase from 280 to 420PPM will cause an extinction level event rivaled by the dinosaur killing asteroid. "

But..."Water vapor is Earth’s most abundant greenhouse gas. It’s responsible for about half of Earth’s greenhouse effect — the process that occurs when gases in Earth’s atmosphere trap the Sun’s heat." Steamy Relationships: How Atmospheric Water Vapor Amplifies Earth's Greenhouse Effect – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

If H2O is more powerful where are the studies showing H2O back in 1850? What are they today? Does an additional 100PPM H2O raise temperature more that CO2

Because H2O is a precipatable compound with an atmospheric lifetime measured in days, it cannnot be directly affected by human activities. It's levels will increase as we raise the temperature but even a 4C rise is only a 1.4% increase in the Earth's absolute temperature.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Because H2O is a precipatable compound with an atmospheric lifetime measured in days, it cannnot be directly affected by human activities. It's levels will increase as we raise the temperature but even a 4C rise is only a 1.4% increase in the Earth's absolute temperature.

Do we have H2O readings going back to 1850?

 

[Crick]

Do we have H2O readings going back to 1850?

You know how we know you're a troll? Because you CONSTANTLY ask us to look up stuff that you could look up yourself. You don't want to know the information. You just want us to jump when you tell us to.

It doesn't look as if water vapor is the answer to global warming. It looks as if its happening DESPITE humidity trends.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You know how we know you're a troll? Because you CONSTANTLY ask us to look up stuff that you could look up yourself. You don't want to know the information. You just want us to jump when you tell us to.

It doesn't look as if water vapor is the answer to global warming. It looks as if its happening DESPITE humidity trends.

I said 1850, not 1980

The best I could find was in the OP and made me wonder why no one bothers with a far far far more potent GhG

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So why isn't the rise in water vapor considered when discussing Manmade global climate warming change?

 

[Billy_Bob]

So why isn't the rise in water vapor considered when discussing Manmade global climate warming change?

Increased heat is supposed to create increased water vapor. But as we have seen that doesn't always occur. Much to Cricks dismay, as he still thinks that CO2 is capable of a heat increase, of a magnitude that makes enough water vapor, to hold heat in our atmosphere. There is no mid-tropospheric hot spot, as required by the Anthropogenic Global Warming hypothesis. Without it the premise fails. 38 years and counting for it to appear and 20 years after Al Gore said the world wound end the first time...

 

[Crick]

Increased heat is supposed to create increased water vapor. But as we have seen that doesn't always occur. Much to Cricks dismay, as he still thinks that CO2 is capable of a heat increase, of a magnitude that makes enough water vapor, to hold heat in our atmosphere. There is no mid-tropospheric hot spot, as required by the Anthropogenic Global Warming hypothesis. Without it the premise fails. 38 years and counting for it to appear and 20 years after Al Gore said the world wound end the first time...

The mid tropospheric hot spot is required for ANY form of heating, not just AGW. That it is difficult to discern does not refute AGW.

AR6 reports that warming seems to be causing decreased RH due to a complex interaction with clouds. They have narrowed the range of CS from 1.5 - 4.5C to a "likely range" of 2.5 - 4.0C. The median, then, has gone from 3.0C to 3.25C

 

[Billy_Bob]

The mid tropospheric hot spot is required for ANY form of heating, not just AGW. That it is difficult to discern does not refute AGW.

Bull Shit... SO the oceans go, the atmosphere will follow.. There is no hot spot. It does not exist.

Funny how your magical heat can just hide wherever it wants and just pop out when you need it.. Your story goes against every thermodynamic principal in science.

 

[Crick]

Bull Shit... SO the oceans go, the atmosphere will follow.. There is no hot spot. It does not exist.

Really? Is that based on your doctorate level studies?

"When the surface warms, there's more evaporation and more moisture in the air. This decreases the lapse rate - there's less cooling aloft. This means warming aloft is greater than warming at the surface. This amplified trend is the hot spot. It's all to do with changes in the lapse rate, regardless of what's causing the warming. If the warming was caused by a brightening sun or reduced sulphate pollution, you'd still see a hot spot."

Understanding the significance of the tropospheric hot spot

<p>Satellite measurements match model results apart from in the tropics. There is uncertainty with the tropic data due to how various teams correct for satellite drift. The U.S. Climate Change Science Program conclude the discrepancy is most likely due to data errors.</p>

skepticalscience.com

Researchers have published results in Environmental Research Letters confirming strong warming in the upper troposphere, known colloquially as the tropospheric hotspot. The hot has been long expected as part of global warming theory and appears in many global climate models.
The inability to detect this hotspot previously has been used by those who doubt man-made global warming to suggest climate change is not occurring as a result of increasing carbon dioxide emissions.
"Using more recent data and better analysis methods we have been able to re-examine the global weather balloon network, known as radiosondes, and have found clear indications of warming in the upper troposphere," said lead author ARC Centre of Excellence for Climate System Science Chief Investigator Prof Steve Sherwood.
"We were able to do this by producing a publicly available temperature and wind data set of the upper troposphere extending from 1958-2012, so it is there for anyone to see."

Climate scientists find elusive tropospheric hot spot

Researchers have published results in Environmental Research Letters confirming strong warming in the upper troposphere, known colloquially as the tropospheric hotspot. The hot has been long expected as part of global warming theory and appears in many global climate models.

phys.org

Funny how your magical heat can just hide wherever it wants and just pop out when you need it.. Your story goes against every thermodynamic principal in science.

My story? What story is that? Do you mean these two articles from people who actually have PhDs and actually do research and publish on this very topic?