Gunman kills 2 in missionary center

[Gunny]

By GEORGE MERRITT, Associated Press Writer
34 minutes ago

ARVADA, Colo. - A gunman walked into a training center dormitory for young Christian missionaries early Sunday and opened fire, killing two of the center's staff members and wounding two others.

No arrests had been made by late morning.

The shooting happened at about 12:30 a.m. at the Youth With a Mission center, police spokeswoman Susan Medina said. About 45 people were evacuated from the dormitory in this Denver suburb and moved to an undisclosed location.

A man and a woman in their mid-20s died, and two men ages 22 and 23 were wounded, Medina said. One of the injured men was in critical condition, said Paul Filidis, a Colorado Springs-based spokesman with Youth With a Mission.

All four of the victims were staff members, Filidis said.

more ... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071209/ap_on_re_us/missionary_shooting

What's up with this? 'Tis the season to be screwy?

 

[rOckNrOllsCar11]

What's up with this? 'Tis the season to be screwy?

He obviously has a beef with religionist. Motive is apparent.

 

[Waterrescuedude]

And the mall last week.... And people wonder why I have a Concealed Weapons Permit and don't leave home without my Glock.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And the mall last week.... And people wonder why I have a Concealed Weapons Permit and don't leave home without my Glock.

And the anti gun crowd will claim these are reasons to disarm us. Anyone remeber the fast food joint in San Diego a few years back? Cops sat outside and refused to do anything while the gunman walk around murdering the patrons, reloading several times in the process. Ya lets depend on the police.

 

[bush lover]

There are a bunch of libs today who of course advocated collecting all the guns etc ad nauseum. The libs just have to get used to the idea that we're going to lose a few thousand people a year in gun killings. But to me, that's a small price to pay for my right to have my (legal) guns. We lose 50 thousand or so a year from car wrecks. But we accept that so we can have our cars. We lose a few hundred thousand I guess from smoking every year. But we accept that so those of us who like to smoke can. Etc. Libs, butt out. We have 300 million people, not counting the illegal Mexicans. A few thousand here or there are penny ante.

 

[Gunny]

There are a bunch of libs today who of course advocated collecting all the guns etc ad nauseum. The libs just have to get used to the idea that we're going to lose a few thousand people a year in gun killings. But to me, that's a small price to pay for my right to have my (legal) guns. We lose 50 thousand or so a year from car wrecks. But we accept that so we can have our cars. We lose a few hundred thousand I guess from smoking every year. But we accept that so those of us who like to smoke can. Etc. Libs, butt out. We have 300 million people, not counting the illegal Mexicans. A few thousand here or there are penny ante.

Then there are goofs who try to pass themselves off as satirists ...

Fact: these criminals prey on an unarmed public.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

They have concealed carry in North Carolina. But any business can put up a sign telling you you can not carry there, effectively nullifying concealed carry. Further the State has no Constitutional or legal edict allowing self defense. You shoot someone and no matter the reason it is up to the local DA to charge you even if totally provable to be self defense.

 

[Threedee]

My arms, my body. Keep your hands off my body!

 

[Gunny]

Associated Press

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. - A gunman shot four staff members at a missionary training center near Denver, killing two, after being told he could not spend the night. About 12 hours later and 65 miles (105 kilometers) away, a gunman fatally shot a parishioner at a megachurch and wounded four other people before a guard killed him, police said.

The police chief in Arvada, a suburb about 15 miles (25 kilometers) west of Denver where the mission workers were shot, said the shootings may be related to those at the Colorado Springs church but declined to elaborate. No one had been captured in the Arvada shootings, authorities said.

Late Sunday, Arvada police helped Colorado Springs serve a search warrant at a home in suburban Englewood, about 15 miles (25 kilometers) south of Denver, that they said could be related to the Colorado Springs shooting case.

"Colorado Springs has identified its suspect, and we're there to see whether their suspect and ours are the same," said Arvada Deputy Police Chief Gary Creagor.

The mission training program in Arvada does have a small office on the Colorado Springs church campus.

Witness descriptions differed in each incident. A handgun was used in the shootings at the Youth With a Mission center in Arvada, while a rifle was used at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, police said.

The gunman at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs was shot and killed by a church security guard after entering the church's main foyer with high-powered rifle shortly before 1 p.m. Sunday and opening fire, Colorado Springs Police Chief Richard Myers said. Four others were wounded, Myers said.

The church's 11 a.m. service had recently ended, and hundreds of people were milling about when the gunman opened fire. Nearby were parents picking up their children from the nursery.

Police arrived to find that the gunman had been killed by a member of the church's armed security staff, Myers said.

"There was a courageous staff member who probably saved many lives here today," Myers said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22174890/

More info. At least somebody brought his gun ....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

More info. At least somebody brought his gun ....

I am sure some anti gun freaks will be reminding us all that only a Jury can convict a person of a crime and only a judge can sentence him to death.

 

[midcan5]

from story

"Police arrived to find that the gunman had been killed by a member of the church's armed security staff, Myers said.


One has to ask themselves a number of questions, why would a church have armed security guards? Are we becoming Iraq? Does a gun, a weapon, give the murderer a sense of power they would not normally have? Why do so many worship guns? In a nation in which guns are glorified we have to live with the consequences of that glorification, executing crazies after the fact changes nothing.

 

[Annie]

from story

"Police arrived to find that the gunman had been killed by a member of the church's armed security staff, Myers said.


One has to ask themselves a number of questions, why would a church have armed security guards? Are we becoming Iraq? Does a gun, a weapon, give the murderer a sense of power they would not normally have? Why do so many worship guns? In a nation in which guns are glorified we have to live with the consequences of that glorification, executing crazies after the fact changes nothing.

They had increased security after the first shootings.

 

[M14 Shooter]

One has to ask themselves a number of questions, why would a church have armed security guards?

Because churches often have numerous items of considerable value in them, and thieves arent deterred by the idea that they are stealing from a house of God?

 

[Foxfyre]

Why would a university or your local public school need armed security guards? Like a religious organization, large numbers of people gather there, and any can become targets for a crazed anybody. Recently, Albuquerque Public Schools relented on the 'no guns' policy--the average citizen is still prohibited from carrying a firearm onto school property but, at long last - HALLELUJAH - the security guards are armed.

I think if this trend catches on, there may still be Columbines and U of VA and incidents like this church group happening, but I think the carnage is likely to be much less.

 

[Shogun]

I dont have a problem with armed guards at a church. Whoever mentioned it already is right- They often DO have expensive equipment that is often ripped off. Intruments, PA, speakers and various audio gear...

I wish the families and congregation of this church much support this christmas season.

 

[hjmick]

Huh, imagine that. One armed individual made a difference, she prevented a man intent on inflicting death and injury upon the congregation by shooting him dead before he could do more damage than he already had. Go figure. Sounds more effective than tossing bibles and candelabras at the gunman.

Just imagine what could have been in Omaha if only someone had been armed.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Huh, imagine that. One armed individual made a difference, she prevented a man intent on inflicting death and injury upon the congregation by shooting him dead before he could do more damage than he already had. Go figure. Sounds more effective than tossing bibles and candelabras at the gunman.

Just imagine what could have been in Omaha if only someone had been armed.

Fool!! Only the police and military have the training necessary to effectively and safely use guns in public!!

 

[hjmick]

Fool!! Only the police and military have the training necessary to effectively and safely use guns in public!!

What was I thinking!

 

[M14 Shooter]

What was I thinking!

Of all the school/store/mall shootings where the shooter didn't kill himself, how many were stopped by policemen?
How many were stopped by armed private citizens?

 

[hjmick]

Of all the school/store/mall shootings where the shooter didn't kill himself, how many were stopped by policemen?
How many were stopped by armed private citizens?

Not enough. But then again, private citizens don't carry. If more states loosened up their CCW laws that might change. Many of these types of incidents are brought to a screeching halt by off duty officers who carry...a concealed weapon. Granted, they have the training, but then I am advocate of any and all gun owners being properly trained in using their weapons, especially handguns, and even more so if they desire a CCW permit. There's no reason a person who wants to carry shouldn't be able to pass the Hogan's Alley of their local constabulary.