Gunman kills 2 in missionary center

[mattskramer]

Fool!! Only the police and military have the training necessary to effectively and safely use guns in public!!

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/12/09/colorado-shooting.html

A gunman shot four staff members at a missionary training centre near Denver early Sunday, killing two, after being told he couldn't spend the night.

In another incident 12 hours later, a gunman fatally shot a parishioner at a megachurch in Colorado Springs, about 105 kilometres away, and wounded four other people before a guard killed him, police said.

This suggests the notion that perhaps we need more security guards and police but to make it more difficult for private citizens to own guns.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Not enough. But then again, private citizens don't carry. If more states loosened up their CCW laws that might change. Many of these types of incidents are brought to a screeching halt by off duty officers who carry...a concealed weapon. Granted, they have the training, but then I am advocate of any and all gun owners being properly trained in using their weapons, especially handguns, and even more so if they desire a CCW permit. There's no reason a person who wants to carry shouldn't be able to pass the Hogan's Alley of their local constabulary.

I dont think the police stopped -any- of them. I know several were stopped by civilians that had their own guns, including at least 2 of the school shootings.

 

[M14 Shooter]

This suggests the notion that perhaps we need more security guards and police but to make it more difficult for private citizens to own guns.

No it doesnt.
It, along with all the other schoo/mall/whatever shootings indicates that armed civlians are more effctive than the police in stopping people like this.

 

[hjmick]

I dont think the police stopped -any- of them. I know several were stopped by civilians that had their own guns, including at least 2 of the school shootings.

You could be right, to be honest I have not, over the years, paid attention to who or what ended the situations.

This may necessitate a Google search.

 

[mattskramer]

Of all the school/store/mall shootings where the shooter didn't kill himself, how many were stopped by policemen?
How many were stopped by armed private citizens?

I don't know. How many tragic accidents are caused by “Dirty Harry wanna-be’s” with itchy trigger fingers accidentall killing children sneaking in late from a date, or confused and lost foreigners looking for help, or campaign contributes hunting with the vice president?

 

[mattskramer]

No it doesnt.
It, along with all the other schoo/mall/whatever shootings indicates that armed civlians are more effctive than the police in stopping people like this.

Uh. Hello. The church shooter was stopped and shot by a security guard.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Uh. Hello. The church shooter was stopped and shot by a security guard.

Uh... hello... armed security guards are private citizens - thus, armed civilians.

 

[mattskramer]

Uh... hello... armed security guards are private citizens - thus, armed civilians.

A security guard is not the same as a private citizen. They are not synonymous – or are you saying that I could have bought a gun, stuck in in my pocket, hung around at the church and called myself a security guard.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I don't know. How many tragic accidents are caused by “Dirty Harry wanna-be’s” with itchy trigger fingers

You tell me -- how many?
Compare that number to the number of times people protect themselves with a gun.

 

[M14 Shooter]

A security guard is not the same as a private citizen. They are not synonymous

The only difference between me and an armed security guard is that he gets paid when he carries his gun.

 

[mattskramer]

The only difference between me and an armed security guard is that he gets paid when he carries his gun.

There is more to it than that. Why did the employer choose person A over person B. Sometimes special training is expected. Sometimes a background check is required. They don’t let just any strager off the street work as an armed security guard. Your argument falls flat.

 

[M14 Shooter]

There is more to it than that.

No. There isnt.
He is a civilian; I am a civilian.
He has a license to carry a gun; I have the same license.
The -only- difference is that he gets paid.
Your argument is a non-starter.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I don't know. How many tragic accidents are caused by “Dirty Harry wanna-be’s” with itchy trigger fingers accidentall killing children sneaking in late from a date, or confused and lost foreigners looking for help, or campaign contributes hunting with the vice president?

NONE.

 

[hjmick]

There is more to it than that. Why did the employer choose person A over person B. Sometimes special training is expected. Sometimes a background check is required. They don’t let just any strager off the street work as an armed security guard. Your argument falls flat.

I passed a background check when I bought my 1911, I also passed the safety test. As far as I know, anyone who wants to purchase a firearm must pass a background check.

As for special training, New York State requires that you complete a 47 hour firearms course. Nothing more. I've spent far more than 47 hours training with my gun, I'm 43 years old. Between you and I, I would feel much safer if I were the one with a gun rather than some twenty something kid with 47 hours under his belt.

 

[mattskramer]

No. There isnt.
He is a civilian; I am a civilian.
He has a license to carry a gun; I have the same license.
The -only- difference is that he gets paid.
Your argument is a non-starter.

Now wait a minute, I thought that you were opposed to people being required to obtain a licence in worder to have agun. Does getting the license require a background check? If so, then whereyou’re your argument opposing background checks as being unconstitutional per the 2nd amendment? ll of a sudden, it seems like you are okay with this stuff. Like I said, why can't a private citizen, per the 2nd amendment, bear arms and be a security guard, and not have to jump through the hoops to gt a license?

Don't you see the difference. There is a difference between a private citizen owning a gun per the 2nd amendment - no license, no background check, etc - and a security guard.

 

[M14 Shooter]

How many tragic accidents are caused by “Dirty Harry wanna-be’s” with itchy trigger fingers?

Compare that number to the number of times people protect themselves with a gun.

What do you get?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Now wait a minute....

Dont try to change the subject.

He is a civilian; I am a civilian.
He has a license to carry a gun; I have the same license.
The -only- difference is that he gets paid.

This shooting, along with all the other school/mall/whatever shootings, indicates that armed civlians are more effctive than the police in stopping people like this.

 

[mattskramer]

NONE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney#Hunting_incident

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori

 

[mattskramer]

Dont try to change the subject.

He is a civilian; I am a civilian.
He has a license to carry a gun; I have the same license.
The -only- difference is that he gets paid.

This shooting, along with all the other schoo/mall/whatever shootings, indicates that armed civlians are more effctive than the police in stopping people like this.

There is a difference between a private citizen like me (someone with no license having a gun) and a security guard (having a license and a background check)being chosen to guard. Okay. Okay. If a security guard is the same as a private citizen, can we agree that there needs to be more security guards. How about that? Ha ha ha.

 

[mattskramer]

If a security guard is the same as a private citizen, can we agree that there needs to be more security guards?