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I'm just going to repost #211 to answer what you just said: Greece has the potential to not only keep their lifestyle but to improve it beyond what France and Germany would have. They could literally flip the economic tables in their favor. And all of Europe would be stronger for it. Not to mention our national security thereby. (they are our allies)There is a constant idiocy of declaring Norway as a successful socialist state and that can be translated to all other countries. Norway is a small wealth-producing state with tremendous resources and a highly-educated population which may spend its own money in whatever way it sees fit.
Greece is a state which obviously cannot produce enough to afford to keep its population at the lifestyle it has become accustomed through the largess of its partners in Europe....Socialism has been the economic downfall of many states that cannot bear its weight.
Geothermal resources...high and low temp. High is easy. Low is workable using heat exchangers and low temp refrigerant boilers:Abstract
In Greece the geothermal areas are located in regions of Quaternary or Miocene volcanism and in continental basins of high heat flow. The existence of high-temperature (>200 °C) resources has been proven by deep drilling on the islands of Milos and Nisyros and inferred on the island of Santorini by its active volcanism. Elsewhere, geological investigations, geochemical analyses of thermal springs and shallow drilling have identified many low-temperature (<100 °C) reservoirs, utilized for spas and greenhouse/soil heating. Ternary K–Na–Mg geothermometer data suggest deep, medium-temperature resources (100–200 °C) in Sousaki, the islands of Samothraki, Chios and Lesvos, in the basins of Nestos River Delta and Alexandroupolis and in the graben of Sperchios River. In the basins of northern Greece these resources are also inferred from deep oil exploration well data. Exploring for geothermal resources in Greece
Solar THERMAL (not photovoltaic) power exports.The Chena geothermal power plant came online in late July 2006, putting Alaska squarely on the map for new geothermal technologies. Chena Hot Springs is the lowest temperature geothermal resource to be used for commercial power production in the world....Because the geothermal water at Chena Hot Springs never reaches the boiling point of water we cannot use a traditional steam driven turbine. Instead a secondary (hence, "binary") fluid, R-134a, which has a lower boiling point than water passes through a heat exchanger with 165°F water from our geothermal wells. Heat from the geothermal water causes the R-134a to flash to vapor which then drives the turbine. GEOTHERMAL POWER - CHENA POWER - A Renewable Energy Company
I'm just going to repost #211 to answer what you just said: Greece has the potential to not only keep their lifestyle but to improve it beyond what France and Germany would have. They could literally flip the economic tables in their favor. And all of Europe would be stronger for it. Not to mention our national security thereby. (they are our allies)There is a constant idiocy of declaring Norway as a successful socialist state and that can be translated to all other countries. Norway is a small wealth-producing state with tremendous resources and a highly-educated population which may spend its own money in whatever way it sees fit.
Greece is a state which obviously cannot produce enough to afford to keep its population at the lifestyle it has become accustomed through the largess of its partners in Europe....Socialism has been the economic downfall of many states that cannot bear its weight.
Here's an idea for Greece:
Geothermal power exports:
Geothermal resources...high and low temp. High is easy. Low is workable using heat exchangers and low temp refrigerant boilers:Abstract
In Greece the geothermal areas are located in regions of Quaternary or Miocene volcanism and in continental basins of high heat flow. The existence of high-temperature (>200 °C) resources has been proven by deep drilling on the islands of Milos and Nisyros and inferred on the island of Santorini by its active volcanism. Elsewhere, geological investigations, geochemical analyses of thermal springs and shallow drilling have identified many low-temperature (<100 °C) reservoirs, utilized for spas and greenhouse/soil heating. Ternary K–Na–Mg geothermometer data suggest deep, medium-temperature resources (100–200 °C) in Sousaki, the islands of Samothraki, Chios and Lesvos, in the basins of Nestos River Delta and Alexandroupolis and in the graben of Sperchios River. In the basins of northern Greece these resources are also inferred from deep oil exploration well data. Exploring for geothermal resources in Greece
Solar THERMAL (not photovoltaic) power exports.The Chena geothermal power plant came online in late July 2006, putting Alaska squarely on the map for new geothermal technologies. Chena Hot Springs is the lowest temperature geothermal resource to be used for commercial power production in the world....Because the geothermal water at Chena Hot Springs never reaches the boiling point of water we cannot use a traditional steam driven turbine. Instead a secondary (hence, "binary") fluid, R-134a, which has a lower boiling point than water passes through a heat exchanger with 165°F water from our geothermal wells. Heat from the geothermal water causes the R-134a to flash to vapor which then drives the turbine. GEOTHERMAL POWER - CHENA POWER - A Renewable Energy Company
Greece is one of the southernmost countries in Europe and therefore receives some of the most yearly sunshine.
Between the two resources and saline heat storage, Greece can pull itself out of a slump, sell power to Europe and sort of you know...help out the national security plan. Investors?....(I hear there's a huge labor pool there needing work) Designers could for the geothermal plants create destination spas for tourism where the warm water discharge could be used in asthetically-pleasing baths...Roman style. The facilities could be cloaked to look like the parthenon and so on. Energy & tourist health spas. Win-win. Like they do in Iceland:
You're welcome.
Hong Kong.I'd like to see one successful country with a "small government" that worked well. Somalia?Oh right let's be more like Somalia. Great plan.It's not what you think it is
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/o...-a-lesson-for-republicans-in-the-us.html?_r=0Greece is a faraway country with an economy roughly the size of greater Miami, so America has very little direct stake in its ongoing disaster. To the extent that Greece matters to us, it’s mainly about geopolitics: By poisoning relations among Europe’s democracies, the Greek crisis risks depriving the United States of crucial allies.
But Greece has nonetheless played an outsized role in U.S. political debate, as a symbol of the terrible things that will supposedly happen — any day now — unless we stop helping the less fortunate and printing money to fight unemployment. And Greece does indeed offer important lessons to the rest of us. But they’re not the lessons you think, and the people most likely to deliver a Greek-style economic disaster here in America are the very people who love to use Greece as a boogeyman.
To understand the real lessons of Greece, you need to be aware of two crucial points.
Paul Krugman[/paste:font]
Macroeconomics, trade, health care, social policy and politics.
See More »
- Ending Greece’s BleedingJUL 5
- Europe’s Many Economic DisastersJUL 3
- Greece Over the BrinkJUN 29
- Hooray for ObamacareJUN 25
- Slavery’s Long ShadowJUN 22
The first is that the “We’re Greece!” crowd has a truly remarkable track record when it comes to economic forecasting: They’ve been wrong about everything, year after year, but refuse to learn from their mistakes. The people now saying that Greece offers an object lesson in the dangers of government debt, and that America is headed down the same road, are the same people who predicted soaring interest rates and runaway inflation in 2010; then, when it didn’t happen, they predicted soaring rates and runaway inflation in 2011; then, well, you get the picture.
The second is that the story you’ve heard about Greece — that it borrowed too much, and its excessive debt led to the current crisis — is seriously incomplete. Greece did indeed run up too much debt (with a lot of help from irresponsible lenders). But its debt, while high, wasn’t that high by historical standards. What turned Greek debt troubles into catastrophe was Greece’s inability, thanks to the euro, to do what countries with large debts usually do: impose fiscal austerity, yes, but offset it with easy money.
Consider Greece’s situation at the end of 2009, when its debt crisis burst into the open. At that point Greek government debt was near 130 percent of gross domestic product, which is definitely a big number. But it’s by no means unprecedented. As it happens, Greece’s debt ratio in 2009 was about the same as America’s in 1946, just after the war. And Britain’s debt ratio in 1946 was twice as high.
Today, however, Greek debt is over 170 percent of G.D.P. and still rising. Is that because Greece just kept on borrowing? Actually, no — Greek debt is up only 6 percent since 2009, although that’s partly because it received some debt relief in 2012. The main point, however, is that the ratio of debt to G.D.P. is up because G.D.P. is down by more than 20 percent. And why is GDP down? Largely because of the austerity measures Greece’s creditors forced it to impose.
Does this mean that austerity is always self-defeating? No, there are cases — for example, Canada in the 1990s — of countries that slashed their debt while maintaining growth and reducing unemployment. But if you look at how they managed this, it involved combining fiscal austerity with easy money: Canada in the ’90s drastically reduced interest rates, encouraging private spending, while allowing its currency to depreciate, encouraging exports.
Greece, unfortunately, no longer had its own currency when it was forced into drastic fiscal retrenchment. The result was an economic implosion that ended up making the debt problem even worse. Greece’s formula for disaster, in other words, didn’t just involve austerity; it involved the toxic combination of austerity with hard money.
So who wants to impose that kind of toxic policy mix on America? The answer is, most of the Republican Party.
On one side, just about everyone in the G.O.P. demands that we reduce government spending, especially aid to lower-income families. (They also, of course, want to reduce taxes on the rich — but that wouldn’t do much to boost demand for U.S. products.)
On the other side, leading Republicans like Representative Paul Ryan incessantly attack the Federal Reserve for its efforts to boost the economy, delivering solemn lectures on the evils of “debasing” the dollar — when the main difference between the effects of austerity in Canada and in Greece was precisely that Canada could “debase” its currency, while Greece couldn’t. Oh, and many Republicans hanker for a return to the gold standard, which would effectively put us into a euro-like straitjacket.
it sure is...don't be stupid like the Greeks and don't embrace socialism...reduce the size of government and increase individual freedom....works like a charm every timeout is tried...
So I'm wondering if this is a coincidence. I bring up Greece in my own thread and solving its problems using green energy sold to Germany and France... *poof* it disappears into "Europe" forums.. (while this one remains in politics).
Then I bring up the green energy thing here and *poof* an active thread suddenly dies.
Sorry Bud, you've got your head in the clouds. You have no idea of what you're talking about. I am a Greek citizen and am in Greece as we speak. Greeks are not Norwegians or Icelanders. Socialism and the dysfunctional state has been the final nail if you in the coffin of the long-term volatility of the Greek economy.
Game over, and you're welcome.
You are absolutely clueless. Sorry Bud, not all Greeks ride donkeys or spend their entire days playing backgammon in the shade.Sorry Bud, you've got your head in the clouds. You have no idea of what you're talking about. I am a Greek citizen and am in Greece as we speak. Greeks are not Norwegians or Icelanders. Socialism and the dysfunctional state has been the final nail if you in the coffin of the long-term volatility of the Greek economy.
Game over, and you're welcome.
Yes, because Greeks use terms like "Bud" in their vernacular.. God, the internet is full of liars...
Greeks have probably more sunshine than any other country in Europe, and they have a ton of geothermal. You have no valid reasons why these two resources couldn't be harnessed to run steam turbines like any other energy-producer does, and the electricity sold to northern countries like Germany and France.
You have nothing...just generlized pessimism and dismissiveness..
You are partially right, but then Greece never developed a massive welfare state in the American sense. Greece has had a huge civil service as an award system for patronage.Greece ended up in its current mess by following liberal economic polices and by rejecting conservative economic policies. It's that simple. They spent more money than they had and resorted to borrowing billions, rather than living within their means and operating on a pay-go basis. They created a massive welfare state to the point that a majority of Greeks receive some kind of government subsidy. They ceded enormous power to labor unions. They imposed huge taxes on business owners and other rich people. Etc., etc., etc.
Look up George Papandreou, the grandson and son of Prime Ministers and Prime Minister himself on Youtube, and quit being an ass.And no Greeks run around calling people "Bud".. You from southern California? Buuu-ddy?
Instead of this: "You are absolutely clueless. Sorry Bud, not all Greeks ride donkeys or spend their entire days playing backgammon in the shade."
Shouldn't you have said this: "Ya Bro, like you are so clueless. Sorry Bud, not all Greek dudes ride donkeys or spend all day chillin' in the shade playing backgammon!"
Republican response: HURR DURR. Norway has strong unions and higher wages due to this, alot of people in norway use public transporation, which is a better thing then individual car ownership in my opinion, plus, norway isn't that big.Fuck you turd and $8 gallon of gas , Go there thenYou know the problem is that you are preaching to people (republicans) who don't even understand what socialism is. They see no difference between Norway and North Korea. They are that brainwashed. Fox News has them by the balls.It's not what you think it is
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/o...-a-lesson-for-republicans-in-the-us.html?_r=0Greece is a faraway country with an economy roughly the size of greater Miami, so America has very little direct stake in its ongoing disaster. To the extent that Greece matters to us, it’s mainly about geopolitics: By poisoning relations among Europe’s democracies, the Greek crisis risks depriving the United States of crucial allies.
But Greece has nonetheless played an outsized role in U.S. political debate, as a symbol of the terrible things that will supposedly happen — any day now — unless we stop helping the less fortunate and printing money to fight unemployment. And Greece does indeed offer important lessons to the rest of us. But they’re not the lessons you think, and the people most likely to deliver a Greek-style economic disaster here in America are the very people who love to use Greece as a boogeyman.
To understand the real lessons of Greece, you need to be aware of two crucial points.
Paul Krugman[/paste:font]
Macroeconomics, trade, health care, social policy and politics.
See More »
- Ending Greece’s BleedingJUL 5
- Europe’s Many Economic DisastersJUL 3
- Greece Over the BrinkJUN 29
- Hooray for ObamacareJUN 25
- Slavery’s Long ShadowJUN 22
The first is that the “We’re Greece!” crowd has a truly remarkable track record when it comes to economic forecasting: They’ve been wrong about everything, year after year, but refuse to learn from their mistakes. The people now saying that Greece offers an object lesson in the dangers of government debt, and that America is headed down the same road, are the same people who predicted soaring interest rates and runaway inflation in 2010; then, when it didn’t happen, they predicted soaring rates and runaway inflation in 2011; then, well, you get the picture.
The second is that the story you’ve heard about Greece — that it borrowed too much, and its excessive debt led to the current crisis — is seriously incomplete. Greece did indeed run up too much debt (with a lot of help from irresponsible lenders). But its debt, while high, wasn’t that high by historical standards. What turned Greek debt troubles into catastrophe was Greece’s inability, thanks to the euro, to do what countries with large debts usually do: impose fiscal austerity, yes, but offset it with easy money.
Consider Greece’s situation at the end of 2009, when its debt crisis burst into the open. At that point Greek government debt was near 130 percent of gross domestic product, which is definitely a big number. But it’s by no means unprecedented. As it happens, Greece’s debt ratio in 2009 was about the same as America’s in 1946, just after the war. And Britain’s debt ratio in 1946 was twice as high.
Today, however, Greek debt is over 170 percent of G.D.P. and still rising. Is that because Greece just kept on borrowing? Actually, no — Greek debt is up only 6 percent since 2009, although that’s partly because it received some debt relief in 2012. The main point, however, is that the ratio of debt to G.D.P. is up because G.D.P. is down by more than 20 percent. And why is GDP down? Largely because of the austerity measures Greece’s creditors forced it to impose.
Does this mean that austerity is always self-defeating? No, there are cases — for example, Canada in the 1990s — of countries that slashed their debt while maintaining growth and reducing unemployment. But if you look at how they managed this, it involved combining fiscal austerity with easy money: Canada in the ’90s drastically reduced interest rates, encouraging private spending, while allowing its currency to depreciate, encouraging exports.
Greece, unfortunately, no longer had its own currency when it was forced into drastic fiscal retrenchment. The result was an economic implosion that ended up making the debt problem even worse. Greece’s formula for disaster, in other words, didn’t just involve austerity; it involved the toxic combination of austerity with hard money.
So who wants to impose that kind of toxic policy mix on America? The answer is, most of the Republican Party.
On one side, just about everyone in the G.O.P. demands that we reduce government spending, especially aid to lower-income families. (They also, of course, want to reduce taxes on the rich — but that wouldn’t do much to boost demand for U.S. products.)
On the other side, leading Republicans like Representative Paul Ryan incessantly attack the Federal Reserve for its efforts to boost the economy, delivering solemn lectures on the evils of “debasing” the dollar — when the main difference between the effects of austerity in Canada and in Greece was precisely that Canada could “debase” its currency, while Greece couldn’t. Oh, and many Republicans hanker for a return to the gold standard, which would effectively put us into a euro-like straitjacket.
I wish the U.S. could be more like Norway but I doubt that will ever happen.
What do you think "spending beyond their means" actually means? Government spending in itself is how a country functions. What pays for government spending? Taxation. Cutting taxes creates more debt. Less revenue leads to more debt.So if I'm reading the original article correctly, we are being told cutting back on government spending is what destroyed Greece. the austerity killed their ability to repay their debt.
It's a ridiculous argument. Especially when you recognize they never actually cut any spending. They refused to.
I'm confident i will be much more financially stable by cutting my spending then anyone who spends beyond their means. It's just common sense
The Greeks agreed to austerity measures 7 times. How can you back up a claim that they refused to?So if I'm reading the original article correctly, we are being told cutting back on government spending is what destroyed Greece. the austerity killed their ability to repay their debt.
It's a ridiculous argument. Especially when you recognize they never actually cut any spending. They refused to.
I'm confident i will be much more financially stable by cutting my spending then anyone who spends beyond their means. It's just common sense
So if I'm reading the original article correctly, we are being told cutting back on government spending is what destroyed Greece. the austerity killed their ability to repay their debt.
It's a ridiculous argument. Especially when you recognize they never actually cut any spending. They refused to.
I'm confident i will be much more financially stable by cutting my spending then anyone who spends beyond their means. It's just common sense
What do you think "spending beyond their means" actually means? Government spending in itself is how a country functions. What pays for government spending? Taxation. Cutting taxes creates more debt. Less revenue leads to more debt.So if I'm reading the original article correctly, we are being told cutting back on government spending is what destroyed Greece. the austerity killed their ability to repay their debt.
It's a ridiculous argument. Especially when you recognize they never actually cut any spending. They refused to.
I'm confident i will be much more financially stable by cutting my spending then anyone who spends beyond their means. It's just common sense
What pays for government spending? Taxation. Cutting taxes creates more debt. Less revenue leads to more debt.
They've been raising taxes. How has their revenue been changing?
What pays for government spending? Taxation. Cutting taxes creates more debt. Less revenue leads to more debt.
They've been raising taxes. How has their revenue been changing?
Everyone knows that Greece's problem is a lack of an industry that generates revenues.
When you kids are done playing, let's talk about how Greece has ample sunshine and geothermal reserves to produce and sell electricity to Germany and France.
