Grasping at straws

[RetiredGySgt]

As a Military member on active duty stationed at a military installation with medical facilities one has NEVER had the right to go check themselves into VA or civilian hospitals EVER. AWOL is ABSENT WITHOUT LEAVE. By abandoning his command and "checking himself" into any facility outside the military chain he fits the charge and should have been arrested as he was and returned to military control.

Further read the article, the man was National Guard and VOLUNTEERED to go active AFTER his first tour. Umm why would he, after taking a 20 thousand dollar bonus then expect to never be sent BACK to Iraq?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071120/ap_on_re_us/soldier_arrest

 

[doniston]

As a Military member on active duty stationed at a military installation with medical facilities one has NEVER had the right to go check themselves into VA or civilian hospitals EVER. AWOL is ABSENT WITHOUT LEAVE. By abandoning his command and "checking himself" into any facility outside the military chain he fits the charge and should have been arrested as he was and returned to military control.

Further read the article, the man was National Guard and VOLUNTEERED to go active AFTER his first tour. Umm why would he, after taking a 20 thousand dollar bonus then expect to never be sent BACK to Iraq?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071120/ap_on_re_us/soldier_arrest

I have a hunch this will blow over and he will be discharged, with perhaps a slap on the wrist. Could it be that his military doctors dropped the ball?

 

[DeadCanDance]

As a Military member on active duty stationed at a military installation with medical facilities one has NEVER had the right to go check themselves into VA or civilian hospitals EVER. AWOL is ABSENT WITHOUT LEAVE. By abandoning his command and "checking himself" into any facility outside the military chain he fits the charge and should have been arrested as he was and returned to military control.

Further read the article, the man was National Guard and VOLUNTEERED to go active AFTER his first tour. Umm why would he, after taking a 20 thousand dollar bonus then expect to never be sent BACK to Iraq?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071120/ap_on_re_us/soldier_arrest

I thought you had a problem with condemning soldiers of a crime, before they have formally been investigated and convicted?

 

[Gunny]

I thought you had a problem with condemning soldiers of a crime, before they have formally been investigated and convicted?

Based on the article he was absent without leave, which is a chargeable offense in the military.

Further, personnel on active duty have no right to VA services since they received active duty services.

Further, if he is dissatisfied with services received he has every right to go to the Inspector General assigned to the hospital on the Fort; which, is the proper action to take.

Whether or not he is trying to pull a fast one or actually has PTSD is irrelevant, and not really for any of US to say.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Based on the article he was absent without leave, which is a chargeable offense in the military.

Further, personnel on active duty have no right to VA services since they received active duty services.

Further, if he is dissatisfied with services received he has every right to go to the Inspector General assigned to the hospital on the Fort; which, is the proper action to take.

Whether or not he is trying to pull a fast one or actually has PTSD is irrelevant, and not really for any of US to say.

from RSG's article:

"A soldier facing his second tour of duty in Iraq said in a jailhouse interview he was at a hospital seeking mental help when he was arrested in the middle of the night for allegedly being absent without leave."

Allegedly. Hmmmm...


don't worry, I get it.

You and RSG have two different standards: One for John Murtha, and one for yourselves.

Got it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

from RSG's article:



Allegedly. Hmmmm...


don't worry, I get it.

You and RSG have two different standards: One for John Murtha, and one for yourselves.

Got it.

You are aware that the term "alleged" is standard in all such stories? The simple act of checking himself into the VA hospital was against military law and regulation. Further the Military does not arrest people for AWOL unless they in fact ARE AWOL.

Ohh and to help you just a little, being one minute late to a formation is in fact AWOL. Though I suspect this fellow was a tad bit longer AWOL. We have his OWN words to go by as to his intent and purpose.

 

[jillian]

Based on the article he was absent without leave, which is a chargeable offense in the military.

Further, personnel on active duty have no right to VA services since they received active duty services.

Further, if he is dissatisfied with services received he has every right to go to the Inspector General assigned to the hospital on the Fort; which, is the proper action to take.

Whether or not he is trying to pull a fast one or actually has PTSD is irrelevant, and not really for any of US to say.

According to the article, he was unable to get the assistance of appropriate medical assistance from the military. Given that we know how long the wait, even for evaluation for PTSD, is it impossible to imagine this being correct.

Funny how we view this differently. Me? I see a desperate guy, sick and in trouble who couldn't get the help he needed and who was being re-rotated into the situation which made him sick in the first place.

 

[Gunny]

from RSG's article:



Allegedly. Hmmmm...


don't worry, I get it.

You and RSG have two different standards: One for John Murtha, and one for yourselves.

Got it.

How do you figure? He was either AWOL or not. If he was, then the CO will decide whether or not to press charges. I don't.

That does not negate the fact he did not follow proper procedure.

It's obvious YOU have two different standards ... one for your left-wingnut POV and another for everyone who doesn't hold the same.

 

[DeadCanDance]

You are aware that the term "alleged" is standard in all such stories? The simple act of checking himself into the VA hospital was against military law and regulation. Further the Military does not arrest people for AWOL unless they in fact ARE AWOL.

Ohh and to help you just a little, being one minute late to a formation is in fact AWOL. Though I suspect this fellow was a tad bit longer AWOL. We have his OWN words to go by as to his intent and purpose.

Its really pathetic that one, you apply a different standard to yourself than you do to john murtha. And two, in spite of your alleged military experience, you are unaware that a charge of AWOL becomes an adminstrative and legal procedure, in which your guilt (if any) is determined adminstratively or through legal proceeding.


You've already convicted this guy.

Its really pathetic how unprincipled you are.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

According to the article, he was unable to get the assistance of appropriate medical assistance from the military. Given that we know how long the wait, even for evaluation for PTSD, is it impossible to imagine this being correct.

Funny how we view this differently. Me? I see a desperate guy, sick and in trouble who couldn't get the help he needed and who was being re-rotated into the situation which made him sick in the first place.

And I see a guy that took 20k and then tries to weasel out of his commitment. The military takes mental health VERY seriously. They do NOT play around with it. Every NCO and up is taught to watch for problems and see that anyone they even sorta suspect has a problem gets help. And this was in the Peace Time Military. There is absolutely NO way I believe that the medical staff at his Fort did not evaluate him and take his claims serious. Hell for all we know he is AWOL because he did not go to the Fort Hospital and went to the VA instead.

 

[Gunny]

According to the article, he was unable to get the assistance of appropriate medical assistance from the military. Given that we know how long the wait, even for evaluation for PTSD, is it impossible to imagine this being correct.

Funny how we view this differently. Me? I see a desperate guy, sick and in trouble who couldn't get the help he needed and who was being re-rotated into the situation which made him sick in the first place.

What I read is he didn't go through the apporopriate chain of command. If he felt he wasn't getting good care, he goes to the IG, not the VA. You don't go to the VA until you are completely out of the service, either retired or discharged.

How we see it different is you want to immediately swallow his sob story while I leave it to the doctors to diagnose. He wouldn't be the first person I saw trying to pull a fast one to get out of deployment, nor would he be the first person I saw diagnosed with PTSD.

Since military units do not regularly pursue personnel who are AWOL/UA, it would be MY best guess that the VA called his unit, rather than his unit conducting some manhunt to find a single junior enlisted soldier.

 

[AllieBaba]

According to the article, he was unable to get the assistance of appropriate medical assistance from the military. Given that we know how long the wait, even for evaluation for PTSD, is it impossible to imagine this being correct.

Funny how we view this differently. Me? I see a desperate guy, sick and in trouble who couldn't get the help he needed and who was being re-rotated into the situation which made him sick in the first place.

How can you make that judgment without any sort of insight into the case itself?

I work in an office with a Dept. of VA officer. My mother was a VA nurse. I have yet to hear anybody speak flippantly of PTSD or desire to provide any but the best care, in whatever way they are best able.

I guess I just don't automatically assume that criminals can't be held accountable, and the blame should always be placed elsewhere. I say look at the guy first, then hang the system.

 

[jillian]

How can you make that judgment without any sort of insight into the case itself?

I work in an office with a Dept. of VA officer. My mother was a VA nurse. I have yet to hear anybody speak flippantly of PTSD or desire to provide any but the best care, in whatever way they are best able.

I guess I just don't automatically assume that criminals can't be held accountable, and the blame should always be placed elsewhere. I say look at the guy first, then hang the system.

Is there anything at which you don't consider yourself expert? So far every conversation, whether about lawyers, therapists, the VA or anything else, you tell a story about how you do that kind of work.

Don't you think that sounds kind of shakey?

 

[DeadCanDance]

Is there anything at which you don't consider yourself expert? So far every conversation, whether about lawyers, therapists, the VA or anything else, you tell a story about how you do that kind of work.

Don't you think that sounds kind of shakey?

LOL

Not to mention there is no "Department of the VA". Its the Veterans Adminstration. Period. No one who knows the slightest thing about it calls it the "Department of VA". That's not its name. I'm calling bullshit. lol

I work in an office with a Dept. of VA officer. My mother was a VA nurse.

 

[Alpha1]

LOL

Not to mention there is no "Department of the VA". Its the Veterans Adminstration. Period. No one who knows the slightest thing about it calls it the "Department of VA". That's not its name. I'm calling bullshit. lol

http://www.va.gov/

I think I'll make a bullshit call too....Just for some idiots that never heard of the United States Department of Veterans Affairs....

 

[DeadCanDance]

http://www.va.gov/

I think I'll make a bullshit call too....Just for some idiots that never heard of the United States Department of Veterans Affairs....

You sure you were in the military?

DVA is the cabinet level department, in which there are several agencies.


Nurses, Doctors and Hospitals fall under the Veteran's Health Adminstration. That's where the nurses work. At the VA hospital, dummy.

 

[Alpha1]

You sure you were in the military?

DVA is the cabinet level department, in which there are several agencies.


Nurses, Doctors and Hospitals fall under the Veteran's Health Adminstration. That's where the nurses work. At the VA hospital, dummy.

Originally Posted by DeadCanDance View Post
LOL

Not to mention there is no "Department of the VA". Its the Veterans Adminstration. Period. No one who knows the slightest thing about it calls it the "Department of VA". That's not its name. I'm calling bullshit.

-----

Tapdance all you want, fool....you obviously screwed up big time....and like all idiot Dims just can't bring yourself to admit the fact.....making you twice the asshole by doin' the ole two-step.....take it like a man, instead of a Dimtard....

"there is no "Department of the VA". Its the Veterans Adminstration. Period.'

That's not its name.
------------------
You gotta be shittin' me.....

 

[pegwinn]

Based soley on the information in the article. The Soldier was in fact UA (AWOL to Army/Airforce types) from the time he failed to appear presumably on Friday mornings formation, pt, or whatever. Basing a UA charge on checking into a VA hospital is tenuous at best since a defense attorney can easily say that he was fogged out and honestly thought he was doing the right thing. Diminished mental capacity and all that. By basing the charge on his missing Friday's (an assumption on my part based on the info in the story) appointed place of duty it'll stick. It will also preclude any lawyer from claiming persecution based on PTSD as a JAG would rule the alleged mental issues not relevant to missing Friday's AM.

Why do we care?

Because we expect better of our servicemembers. They are the best and brightest of our society. Often they are better than the civilian leadership that they obey. So, any fuck up is bad.

For the poster that mentioned admin action...... ANY violation of the UCMJ is a court martial offense. The CO can convene a special or refer to SJA for a GCM. The accused can demand a court martial in lieu of Office Hours (NJP/Art15/Captains Mast) since they verdict cannot be appealed.

In my opinion only, I tend to believe that he is looking for an out. Can't be certain, but the quotes from the article lead me that way.

 

[Gunny]

You sure you were in the military?

DVA is the cabinet level department, in which there are several agencies.


Nurses, Doctors and Hospitals fall under the Veteran's Health Adminstration. That's where the nurses work. At the VA hospital, dummy.

Sure, except if you type THAT into google it comes up US Department of Veterans Affairs.

'Nuff said.

 

[DeadCanDance]

I love it when alleged military veterans, have no clue about Veterans healthcare.

The dude was talking about his mom being a nurse.

VA Nurses work in the Veterans Health Adminstration. Which is an agency within (or under) the Department of Veterans Affairs. DVA is a cabinet level agency, with several sub agencies with it.


After you finish LOL'ing, ask yourself if you've ever heard of the FBI being called the Department of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. That would be ridiculous., because the FBI is a Bureau within the Department of Justice.

Just like vet healthcare is in the Vets Health adminstration which is under the Department of Vets Affairs.