Government Healthcare Disaster in UK

[beowolfe]

But I have a question to GOP supporters. Why do you expect, with only 41% of the senate, to be able to force your POV? There are parts of the healtcare bill that I don't like. But I see the cliff at the end of the healthcare road we're currently on is heading; and I'm all for an alternate route. Even one where I'm not 100% sure where it's going to lead.

I'm not a GOP supporter, but one just needs to looks at any poll about the subject as they choose. On just needs to look at the early elections, Americans have spoken. This isn't the bill that the dems should hang their hat on.....even if it is just a foot in the door. The cost only goes up from there, and the people know it.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think this bill is great, but when I think about the entire process, from beginning to end (even before there was a a bill) it just seems to me that the GOP was willing to do anything to not get a bill. That's what I meant be seemingly expecting that have 41% control entitled them to having it their way.

 

[B L Zeebub]

When I travel to the US, my travel insurance is double that of anywhere in the world. I also have the right to free medical care in any other E.U. member nation.

I think we Americans are just at a stage where enough of us see healthcare not completely as just another commodity, but as a necessary service sort of like police and fire services; something that everyone should have access to and as something that should be provided for communally. We still have enough who look still look at is as simply another commodity to make for spirited discussions and politics.

I think you are probably right, social care is very expensive, non of my family has begrudged our tax burden, I was in the 40% bracket.

My mother is 94 yrs old in march thanks to the NHS, her state pension is about £180 per wk (she never worked) my dead fathers private pension takes it up to £400 a week, his investments do not provide much interest at present.

She gets all sorts of free grants, her house has had free wall and loft insulation, draught exclusion and security locks, she also gets a one off payment of £400 each year in Dec(non means tested) to help with heating.

The NHS is not perfect but it is a damn sight better than 20yrs ago. I have no complaints.

 

[Diuretic]

When I travel to the US, my travel insurance is double that of anywhere in the world. I also have the right to free medical care in any other E.U. member nation.

Same for Australia BL - you're covered here, we're covered there.

 

[DiamondDave]

The consequences of not being able to afford health coverage is pain, suffering and death.

A simple stay in the hospital runs over $100,000, it is not a case of merely personal responsibility. More and more companies are dropping health coverage...they can't afford to be the provider.

The US is the wealthiest country on earth...there is no reason we can't take care of our people

Consequences of your own stupidity and choices can also lead to death.. government does not exist to make up for such things either...

There is no reason people cannot VOLUNTARILY give of themselves to help those less fortunate... hence CHARITY... but nobody who is free to provide for themselves is obligated to have the expenses for taking care of themselves paid for by someone else by force of the government

"All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated...As therefore the bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come: so this bell calls us all: but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness....No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

And that quote does not change the fact that your personal housing, your personal well being, and providing for your person needs is nobody's responsibility but your own

idiot

 

[Harry Dresden]

Show me a valid ranking from someone else. As usual, conservatives discard any study that doesn't match their agenda...

Smoking and cancer? Left wing nonsense
Global warming? Silly nonsense
US doesn't have a good healthcare system? Liberal ramblings

hell i cant get you to answer the question i asked in the beginning of this thread Rw....if you had to have delicate surgery on your heart.....would you go to no 8 Oman to have it done cheaper or here in the US?.....

The reason US healthcare is rated so poorly is not the quality but the availability. Its great healthcare if you can afford it. If not ...you pay the consequences.

We are the only industrialized nation where people go bankrupt because they got sick or injured

i wasnt asking to see you dance Rw.....Oman is #8....would you go there to have heart surgery?.....the WHO is saying their medical system must be a hell of a lot better than the US....so i take it you would rather go there and have it done then here....because its cheaper there.....

 

[Neotrotsky]

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

UK ranked 18

US ranked 37

The News story just proves what everyone knows- that the UN stats are crap



World Health Organization ranking biased, not reliable

WHO’s FoolingWho? TheWorld Health Organization’s Problematic Ranking of Health Care Systems


With the UN system, both countries equal, the one with socialized medicine would still get a higher score (no wonder the left loves to use these bogus numbers)

Isn't Cuba higher in those numbers? Did you know numbers are self reported

Explain how we are to trust self-reported numbers from Cuba?
I seem to remember the USSR reporting to the UN everything was great in their country as well

Funny how that works




Of course, facts don't matter with the MSM and the left; truth is their worst enemy

 

[Harry Dresden]

For dumbass Americans:If you work as a teacher or some other government entity and they pay your benefits you have:
GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE
Ask them if they like it or not.
DUH.

i work for the government and i have Blue Shield......it aint nothing like the Govt shit i have been hearing about......i also know a machinest who does not work for the govt. who has Blue Shield.....very comparable to mine.....Blue Shield is not Govt. run or owned.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Most Republicans love this stuff. They just love it. Insurance companies have to make a big profit. The bigger it is, they happier they are.

Rdean....look down between your legs.....see that appendage there?....its called a Dick....if you look closely at it....you will see your face on it....

 

[namvet]

Woman gives birth on pavement 'after being refused ambulance' (UK)

A young mother gave birth on a pavement outside a hospital after she was told to make her own way there.
Mother-of-three Carmen Blake called her midwife to ask for an ambulance when she went into labour unexpectedly with her fourth child.
But the 27-year-old claims she was refused an ambulance and told to walk the 100m from her house in Leicester to the city's nearby Royal Infirmary.
Woman gives birth on pavement 'after being refused ambulance' | Mail Online

from the OP post:

Staff shortages at Stafford Hospital meant that patients went unwashed for weeks, were left without food or drink and were even unable to get to the lavatory. Some lay in soiled sheets that relatives had to take home to wash, others developed infections or had falls, occasionally fatal. Many staff did their best but the attitude of some nurses “left a lot to be desired”.

that's a concentration camp

 

[Chris]

"An independent inquiry found that managers at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust stopped providing safe care because they were preoccupied with government targets and cutting costs. "


Stafford Hospital caused ‘unimaginable suffering’ - Times Online



Woooohoooo... we want govt healthcare too!!!!!

Idiot liberals.

Actually, you are the idiot.

Britain has socialized medicine which doesn't work very well.

National health insurance is not socialized medicine because the doctors and the hospitals are still privately owned, and national health insurance works better than our system.

That is why every other industrialized nation in the world has it, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare.

 

[driveby]

"An independent inquiry found that managers at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust stopped providing safe care because they were preoccupied with government targets and cutting costs. "


Stafford Hospital caused ‘unimaginable suffering’ - Times Online



Woooohoooo... we want govt healthcare too!!!!!

Idiot liberals.

Actually, you are the idiot.

Britain has socialized medicine which doesn't work very well.

National health insurance is not socialized medicine because the doctors and the hospitals are still privately owned, and national health insurance works better than our system.

That is why every other industrialized nation in the world has it, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare.

polly wanna cracker ? .....

 

[rightwinger]

National health insurance is not socialized medicine because the doctors and the hospitals are still privately owned, and national health insurance works better than our system.

That is why every other industrialized nation in the world has it, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare

Which is why the Republicans should be outraged. Why do we pay so fucking much for healthcare and receive such bad results?

 

[Meister]

National health insurance is not socialized medicine because the doctors and the hospitals are still privately owned, and national health insurance works better than our system.

That is why every other industrialized nation in the world has it, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare

Which is why the Republicans should be outraged. Why do we pay so fucking much for healthcare and receive such bad results?

We have without a doubt the best healthcare in the world, leftwinger. What the hell are you talking about?

If you want to complain that it's not UHS, and not all have insurance, that would be one thing, but to say we have bad results?

 

[Meister]

"An independent inquiry found that managers at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust stopped providing safe care because they were preoccupied with government targets and cutting costs. "


Stafford Hospital caused ‘unimaginable suffering’ - Times Online



Woooohoooo... we want govt healthcare too!!!!!

Idiot liberals.

Actually, you are the idiot.

Britain has socialized medicine which doesn't work very well.

National health insurance is not socialized medicine because the doctors and the hospitals are still privately owned, and national health insurance works better than our system.

That is why every other industrialized nation in the world has it, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare.

Quit your whining and buy your own damn insurance, ya parasite!

 

[Misty]

One of the problems the UK NHS faces is chronic under-funding. Perhaps they've forgotten that it has to be paid for and that could be why there are problems. Political spin isn't currency.

Medicaid and medicare are under funded in the US also.

 

[Misty]

Those who support the public option should say it straight out

you want other people to pay for your insurance.

 

[Misty]

the only people who would come here for surgery are people with enough money to pay for it.

people who have no money and no insurance are NOT well treated by our system.

And you might want to look at the post above yours vis a vis Singapore.

so because I have enough money to pay for my own insurance, I have to pay for everyone else's too?

 

[Some Guy]

Those who support the public option should say it straight out

you want other people to pay for your insurance.

Exactly. I simply cannot wrap my head around the arguments of the left wingers in this thread. Their argument boils down to "i shouldn't be responsible for paying for my health care." It's mind boggling to me.

The "choose between paying for your mortgage and paying for health care" is just stupid. Is it fair that some people get sick and some don't? Absolutely not. Is life fair at all? Nope, not one bit. The argument that because something happens to me means you should be forced to help me fix it is just simply unfair.

Even dumber is the idea that government can administer health insurance cheaper than insurance companies do now. Look at Medicare for your closest example of government run health insurance. If Medicare was a business that had to make a profit or even broke even to stay alive, meaning it actually had to be an efficient operation, it would've been gone a long while ago. Besides, having the government or insurance companies control who pay for health insurance does absolutely nothing to target the costs is requires for doctors to provide health care. The ONLY way you'll cut health care costs or prices (which often get confused) is by cutting the overhead that doctors have in order to provide their service.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

But I have a question to GOP supporters. Why do you expect, with only 41% of the senate, to be able to force your POV? There are parts of the healtcare bill that I don't like. But I see the cliff at the end of the healthcare road we're currently on is heading; and I'm all for an alternate route. Even one where I'm not 100% sure where it's going to lead.

I'm not a GOP supporter, but one just needs to looks at any poll about the subject as they choose. On just needs to look at the early elections, Americans have spoken. This isn't the bill that the dems should hang their hat on.....even if it is just a foot in the door. The cost only goes up from there, and the people know it.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think this bill is great, but when I think about the entire process, from beginning to end (even before there was a a bill) it just seems to me that the GOP was willing to do anything to not get a bill. That's what I meant be seemingly expecting that have 41% control entitled them to having it their way.

It is the business of the opposition to oppose. This is not news. Read Federalist #10. This is what Madison, who wrote the draft of the constitution, was aiming for.

What we have is a set of corrupt and incoherent bills that are little more than logrolling at the citizens expense. There is nothing good for healthcare in any of them. No benefits accrue until 2018 at the earliest. Expenses start immediately.

 

[Ame®icano]

But I have a question to GOP supporters. Why do you expect, with only 41% of the senate, to be able to force your POV? There are parts of the healtcare bill that I don't like. But I see the cliff at the end of the healthcare road we're currently on is heading; and I'm all for an alternate route. Even one where I'm not 100% sure where it's going to lead.

I'm not a GOP supporter, but one just needs to looks at any poll about the subject as they choose. On just needs to look at the early elections, Americans have spoken. This isn't the bill that the dems should hang their hat on.....even if it is just a foot in the door. The cost only goes up from there, and the people know it.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think this bill is great, but when I think about the entire process, from beginning to end (even before there was a a bill) it just seems to me that the GOP was willing to do anything to not get a bill. That's what I meant be seemingly expecting that have 41% control entitled them to having it their way.

I agree, GOP will do anything not to pass THIS bill. Can we blame them for it if you said yourself that bill is not great. However, Liberals had 60 needed votes to pass that bill as is, and they haven't. Why not? Maybe because they don't agree in between themselves that bill is that good. And if true, why to blame GOP for not passing it, especially when GOP votes were irrelevant.