GOP to introduce “We Built This!” slogan in taxpayer-built arena

[Moonglow]

The Post Office is an example of what government employee unions can do to a business. UPS and FEDEX employees make as much as postal service employees and they aren't losing billions of dollars a year. And, they are not allowed by law to process first class mail, even though they do transport a helluva lot of mail and packages on contract for the USPS.

You left something out. What other business is forced to prepay 5.5 billion dollars EVERY year to pre-pay well in advance for retirement benefits? How much do you think lobbyists for UPS and FED EX paid for that little gem of legislation? And you KNOW that those two companies would not deliver mail anywhere they deemed "unprofitable". You want to know what I don't understand, when did you morons on the right decide that EVERYTHING must have a profit motive behind it? Some things work better in a non-profit scenario, and they are ALWAYS cheaper and more efficient.

All corporations are required to fund their retirement programs dumbass. The Post Office has a monopoly on first class mail and is supposed to make a profit to in order to stay in business.

Who backs the retirement funds if the company folds and loses the retirement funds?

 

[thanatos144]

You left something out. What other business is forced to prepay 5.5 billion dollars EVERY year to pre-pay well in advance for retirement benefits? How much do you think lobbyists for UPS and FED EX paid for that little gem of legislation? And you KNOW that those two companies would not deliver mail anywhere they deemed "unprofitable". You want to know what I don't understand, when did you morons on the right decide that EVERYTHING must have a profit motive behind it? Some things work better in a non-profit scenario, and they are ALWAYS cheaper and more efficient.

All corporations are required to fund their retirement programs dumbass. The Post Office has a monopoly on first class mail and is supposed to make a profit to in order to stay in business.

Who backs the retirement funds if the company folds and loses the retirement funds?

no one........

 

[Moonglow]

All corporations are required to fund their retirement programs dumbass. The Post Office has a monopoly on first class mail and is supposed to make a profit to in order to stay in business.

Who backs the retirement funds if the company folds and loses the retirement funds?

no one........

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation that is who does. A government agency.

 

[JDzBrain]

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation that is who does. A government agency.

Uh...other than Obama Motors, there is no such thing as a government corporation dude.

It's no more a government agency than the Federal Reserve is. It's a insurance company that has government oversight but receives NO...NOT ONE DIME of public funding!

And it only insures failed pension up to 54,000 dollars a year and ONLY if you retire at 65 or older. So if you had, say...a pension plan like a New York teacher that would have paid you 110,000 bucks a year after 25 years and the fund failed...you are shit out of luck!

And they ONLY guarantee pensions for employers who CHOOSE to participate. Your pension is NOT SAFE. Just ask Berny Madeoff's former employees!

As a matter of FACT, the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation only covers about 42 million employees of the what, 110 million people who actually still have jobs in this country. So only about 30% of employees are covered by them.

So the right answer is still...NO ONE since it's voluntary participation and certainly NOT THE FED since they don't receive a DIME of federal funding!

 

[auditor0007]

wow...you see all of that? You must be the Amazing Carnac. I see a taxpayer funded building that wouldn't exist without public dollars....That a business profited off of and gave some good people decent jobs for a while.

Do you honestly think that government has its own money?

That money comes from us.

It comes from businesses. It comes from communities. It is often seed money from an investor that builds that kind of building.

What it is NOT is something government built.

The problem with so many of you is that you do not see how government and the private sector is so intertwined. So many businesses rely on the government for funding. The government is a tool or vehicle where money is collected and reallocated where it is needed most. It ends up back in the private sector, but in most cases it is for the good of everyone, and everyone benefits. We see this with defense contractors, builders and construction companies that work and build our roads along with other local projects such as stadiums and arenas.

 

[Steelplate]

Here is where you fail. Well, you fail all the time, but I digress.

Our economy is not a zero sum fishbowl.

We are only 5% of the world population, and the market is literally 100% of world population.

2 billion or so people in the world make products they could never hope to afford. They prove that capital and investment does not have to overpay grunt labor to be successful.

See, since about the dawn of the industrial age, labor has been capital's lil' bitch.

wait. It's been slowly happening over the past 30 years. It's been temporarily delayed by employing tactics such as easy credit, outsourcing, and keeping interest rates artificially low, but make no mistake....the marginalization of our labor force over the decades is catching up to us. You can blame Obama, social programs and all the other bullshit you guys tend to do, but the simple fact is that when people can't afford to live in their own country, there's no room for them to buy niceties no matter how cheaply they are produced.

As far as your "lil bitch" comment? It just goes to show what you stand for and how shallow your ideas are. I find it amusing how the most productive period of time in our country was when big business made a little bit less and the workforce was treated with respect, both financially and relationally.

You want a society of haves and have nots. You want a Banana Republic for a country. Go look up the quality of life in those places. It's great if you are part of the ruling class.....if you are a "grunt" life sucks. Why is this your vision of America? Why do you think this is what America needs?

I have traveled on business to 26 foreign countries and have seen Banana Republics in real time. Life for a 'grunt' in the US is a thousand times better than what I have seen first hand in some of these third world countries. Maybe you need to look up the quality of life in those places.

Like I said.....wait.

 

[Steelplate]

Here is where you fail. Well, you fail all the time, but I digress.

Our economy is not a zero sum fishbowl.

We are only 5% of the world population, and the market is literally 100% of world population.

2 billion or so people in the world make products they could never hope to afford. They prove that capital and investment does not have to overpay grunt labor to be successful.

See, since about the dawn of the industrial age, labor has been capital's lil' bitch.

wait. It's been slowly happening over the past 30 years. It's been temporarily delayed by employing tactics such as easy credit, outsourcing, and keeping interest rates artificially low, but make no mistake....the marginalization of our labor force over the decades is catching up to us. You can blame Obama, social programs and all the other bullshit you guys tend to do, but the simple fact is that when people can't afford to live in their own country, there's no room for them to buy niceties no matter how cheaply they are produced.

As far as your "lil bitch" comment? It just goes to show what you stand for and how shallow your ideas are. I find it amusing how the most productive period of time in our country was when big business made a little bit less and the workforce was treated with respect, both financially and relationally.

You want a society of haves and have nots. You want a Banana Republic for a country. Go look up the quality of life in those places. It's great if you are part of the ruling class.....if you are a "grunt" life sucks. Why is this your vision of America? Why do you think this is what America needs?

Ther is your normal pantload of weepy class warfare talking points wrapped in there, which really makes you hardly worth educating.

But i will address your stupid shit in red above.

We are only 5% of the world population, but we used to be something like 50% of the entire consumer market.

What we want, asshole, is not to become a Banana Republic. Between China and India alone, there are something upwards of 2-3 billion new CONSUMERS coming online. What we want is to service emerging markets which will eventually dwarf the US markets. With only 5% of the population, we could never HOPE to have enough workers to provide goods and services to even small niches in these emerging world markets.

That said, your grand-daddys machine shop job is gone forever. Nimble entrepreneurs will emerge - as soon as the Leftists remove their jackboot from our necks - to meet the needs. The death spiral of dependency and handouts will fail. We have no choice but to move forward.

So what you are saying is that America is now the land of shitty jobs, an incredibly high cost of living, and if the right wingers get their way....no safety nets. If that's the case...RUN your campaigns on that platform instead of lying about prosperity and restoring our future.

Are we Americans first, or globalists playing an oh so real game of Monopoly where the losers fucking starve?

 

[JDzBrain]

The problem with so many of you is that you do not see how government and the private sector is so intertwined. So many businesses rely on the government for funding. The government is a tool or vehicle where money is collected and reallocated where it is needed most. It ends up back in the private sector, but in most cases it is for the good of everyone, and everyone benefits. We see this with defense contractors, builders and construction companies that work and build our roads along with other local projects such as stadiums and arenas.

You are right about one thing. Business and government IS all twisted up in this country. And getting more so with every passing day...but it's NOT by choice. There have ALREADY been more than 150 THOUSAND pages of NEW regulations written in support of Obamacare alone since its passing and it hasn't even been implemented yet!

But brother, you're wrong about one thing. We conservatives understand that all too well....and we don't LIKE it! The rest of that is pie in the sky, socialist Utopian, spread the wealth propaganda, HORSE PLOP! ;~0

It's funny, progressives/liberals/socialist claim to be pro choice. The kind of thinking on display by liberals in this thread and that post is just more evidence that those choices only extend to the to the choices they want to give you. And Moon's post draws a clear line of distinction between the two different ideologies that this election is all about.

Businesses and people DO NO CHOOSE to get all tied up with governments...except to USE it to enrich themselves. The vast majority has been FORCED to by things like the 135,000 pages of progressive tax codes we all must live under. And by the MILLIONS of regulations already put in place by the HUNDREDS of alphabet soup regulatory agencies, MOST of which are duplicates whose only purpose was as part of a design to get government so intertwined with our lives that we can't get them out. They are sticking their wick into every crevice of your body and life and you believe we should just lay back and take it.

The point of your post is that it is we conservatives who don't understand the benevolent and necessary nature of your big government vision for America, when in fact, the opposite is true. Both in the intent of our founding fathers and the facts of the history of our government...it is liberals who don't have a CLUE.

Conservatives do NOT believe government has no role to play in our lives. However, we KNOW that businesses that DEPEND on government for support are NOT businesses...they are recipients of CHARITY and/or beggars. We believe as Thomas Jefferson when he said, "It is error alone which requires the support of government. Truth can stand on it's own."

That simple statement is the perfect expression of the truth behind why our free enterprise system has, up until recently worked to produce the most powerful economic force and agent for REAL change and improvement in the history of man kind. And NOW you believe we should be thankful to some delusional progressive ideologues for delivering an habitually pregnant bureaucracy that's spitting out regulation after regulation and destroying this guiding principles which have been responsible for everything you see around you. And I mean EVERYTHING! I'm thinking that's not going to happen!

The amount of wealth the federal government is STEALING to simply sustain it's self is staggering. You seem to believe it ends up back in the hands of local citizens to enrich their lives. Well, NOTHING could be further from the truth...unless you are a government employee. Only about .01 of a cent of every dollar the federal government takes ends up back in the pockets of the person from whom it was stolen. The rest...well the rest goes to support bloated government bureaucracies and/or pissed away through waste and fraud.

Things like the 20 BILLION in earned income tax credit refunds...TO ILLEGAL ALIENS that were given out last year by the IRS. Why don't you or ANYONE explain to me just exactly how the 25,000 NEW IRS agents hired to support Obamacare has helped that and made ANYONE who isn't an illegal alien's life better? I'll hold my breath waiting on that one!

NOT!

Folks, we are standing at a crossroads. We can be, as Moon suggest and progressives believe, the people are too stupid to govern and run our own lives and just gratefully lay there and take it...OR we can be as our founders believed, a people capable of self governance and KICK THESE PROGRESSIVE LUNATICS out of our government and lives. One vote at a time, one elections cycle at a time...we can reclaim this country to the greatness that made it the greatest engine for REAL progress and improvement of people's everywhere that the world has ever know.

Oh, forgot to include the Jefferson quote. "Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question."

YOUR CHOICE!

 

[thanatos144]

Who backs the retirement funds if the company folds and loses the retirement funds?

no one........

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation that is who does. A government agency.

Is it really a government agency ?

 

[thanatos144]

wait. It's been slowly happening over the past 30 years. It's been temporarily delayed by employing tactics such as easy credit, outsourcing, and keeping interest rates artificially low, but make no mistake....the marginalization of our labor force over the decades is catching up to us. You can blame Obama, social programs and all the other bullshit you guys tend to do, but the simple fact is that when people can't afford to live in their own country, there's no room for them to buy niceties no matter how cheaply they are produced.

As far as your "lil bitch" comment? It just goes to show what you stand for and how shallow your ideas are. I find it amusing how the most productive period of time in our country was when big business made a little bit less and the workforce was treated with respect, both financially and relationally.

You want a society of haves and have nots. You want a Banana Republic for a country. Go look up the quality of life in those places. It's great if you are part of the ruling class.....if you are a "grunt" life sucks. Why is this your vision of America? Why do you think this is what America needs?

Ther is your normal pantload of weepy class warfare talking points wrapped in there, which really makes you hardly worth educating.

But i will address your stupid shit in red above.

We are only 5% of the world population, but we used to be something like 50% of the entire consumer market.

What we want, asshole, is not to become a Banana Republic. Between China and India alone, there are something upwards of 2-3 billion new CONSUMERS coming online. What we want is to service emerging markets which will eventually dwarf the US markets. With only 5% of the population, we could never HOPE to have enough workers to provide goods and services to even small niches in these emerging world markets.

That said, your grand-daddys machine shop job is gone forever. Nimble entrepreneurs will emerge - as soon as the Leftists remove their jackboot from our necks - to meet the needs. The death spiral of dependency and handouts will fail. We have no choice but to move forward.

So what you are saying is that America is now the land of shitty jobs, an incredibly high cost of living, and if the right wingers get their way....no safety nets. If that's the case...RUN your campaigns on that platform instead of lying about prosperity and restoring our future.

Are we Americans first, or globalists playing an oh so real game of Monopoly where the losers fucking starve?

All that hysteria and none of it truthful....Amazing .

 

[JDzBrain]

no one........

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation that is who does. A government agency.

Is it really a government agency ?

NO! It's is basically an insurance Coop established by government edict in 1974 that has government oversight and which insures on a VOLUNTARY participation basis, only about 30% of the private pension plans in this country.

It receives NO...not one dime of government money!

It's a corporation and federal entities can NOT, by well established law, be incorporated!

Oh, and I explained it a post on the last page T. I know I'm long winded, so I don't blame ya for skimming past my stuff! ;~)

 

[thanatos144]

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation that is who does. A government agency.

Is it really a government agency ?

NO! It's is basically an insurance Coop established by government edict in 1974 that has government oversight and which insures on a VOLUNTARY participation basis, only about 30% of the private pension plans in this country.

It receives NO...not one dime of government money!

It's a corporation and federal entities can NOT, by well established law, be incorporated!

Oh, and I explained it a post on the last page T. I know I'm long winded, so I don't blame ya for skimming past my stuff! ;~)

Oh I saw it after I posted.....

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

How are revenue bonds backed by tax dollars?

.

The St. Petersburg Times reported on January 8, 1996 (via Nexis): "Financing for the arena was completed in August with the closing in New York on seven bond issues. Sales taxes, tourist development taxes, and ticket surcharges will be used to repay the bonds. Permanent financing includes $84 million in bonds backed by the city of Tampa and Hillsborough County, and another $60 million worth backed by the Lightning."

Fox-Approved Convention Theme Contradicted By Publicly Financed Site | Blog | Media Matters for America

This is precisely what I pointed out in an earlier post. A small portion of the dollars came from tourist and non-ad valorem taxes. These taxes are not "backing" anything. They go into the mix.

In a revenue bond issue, a vast majority of the funding comes from the sale of the bonds to investors. To pretend that the arena is either funded by tax dollars or "backed" by tax dollars (tax dollars do not guarantee the issue, for example) is intellectually dishonest at best.

Which is normal in partisan politics, I'm afraid.

.

In this case the bonds ARE being repaid in part by tax revenues. Reading difficulties?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The ARENA is the home of the Tampa Bay Lighting and is owned by Tampa Bay Sports and Entertainment LLC.

No it isn't. Its operated by Tampa Bay Sports and Entertainment LLC, not owned by it.
The public owns it. Moron.

.

So they're still pushing the notion that public funds built the arena?

Third time: revenue bonds.

let's see if that sticks.

.

backed by tax dollars

Tampa Bay Sports And Entertainment LLC Closes on Purchase of Tampa Bay Lightning
Jeff Vinik Becomes Owner

The government paid 62% and the Tampa Bay Lightning paid 38% of the funding for the venue's construction and infrastructure. The government raised their part of the 120 million by issuing MUNICIPAL BONDS, sold to the public....NOT TAX DOLLARS fool and the Lightning actually had ASSETS they used to finance their part!

Tampa Bay Sports and Entertainment, LLC OWNS the Tampa Bay Lighting and it's assets, which INCLUDE a 38% stake in the Ice Palace. Leasing of the arena belongs to the Tampa Bay Lightning ownership and they ARE the majority owner of the arena...PERIOD!

OohPooPooMee...you are quit possibly either the most intellectually dishonest or just plain ignorant person I've ever encountered on any internet forum. DESPITE what you've heard, there really ARE some thoughts that should not be expressed publicly. ESPECIALLY if they come echoing out of the bottom of a bottle of Jack Daniels!

I think your handlers at Media Matters are pissin' good money after bad. Seems to me, the ability for their TROLLS to actually converse intelligently would better serve their purposes. YOU ain't getting that done...MORON!

The bonds are to be paid back in part by tax dollars. And ultimately its the taxpayers credit that is on the line. if the arena fails and the bondholders get screwed, do you think that makes them more or less likely to invest in such issues in the future?

 

[Too Tall]

Who backs the retirement funds if the company folds and loses the retirement funds?

no one........

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation that is who does. A government agency.

The PBGC is not funded by general tax revenues. Its funds come from four sources:

1. Insurance premiums paid by sponsors of defined benefit pension plans
2. Assets held by the pension plans it takes over.
3. Recoveries of unfunded pension liabilities from plan sponsors' bankruptcy estates.
4. Investment income.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

no one........

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation that is who does. A government agency.

The PBGC is not funded by general tax revenues. Its funds come from four sources:

1. Insurance premiums paid by sponsors of defined benefit pension plans
2. Assets held by the pension plans it takes over.
3. Recoveries of unfunded pension liabilities from plan sponsors' bankruptcy estates.
4. Investment income.

If its like the FDIC, there is an implied government backing. If the FDIC ran out of funds to pay depositors of banks gone wrong, the government would almost certainly step in and make up the difference.

 

[Too Tall]

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation that is who does. A government agency.

The PBGC is not funded by general tax revenues. Its funds come from four sources:

1. Insurance premiums paid by sponsors of defined benefit pension plans
2. Assets held by the pension plans it takes over.
3. Recoveries of unfunded pension liabilities from plan sponsors' bankruptcy estates.
4. Investment income.

If its like the FDIC, there is an implied government backing. If the FDIC ran out of funds to pay depositors of banks gone wrong, the government would almost certainly step in and make up the difference.

Read post #171

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation that is who does. A government agency.

Is it really a government agency ?

NO! It's is basically an insurance Coop established by government edict in 1974 that has government oversight and which insures on a VOLUNTARY participation basis, only about 30% of the private pension plans in this country.

It receives NO...not one dime of government money!

It's a corporation and federal entities can NOT, by well established law, be incorporated!

Oh, and I explained it a post on the last page T. I know I'm long winded, so I don't blame ya for skimming past my stuff! ;~)

Sorry but its got a .gov at the end of its name

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp - PBGC Protects America's Pensions

its an independent federal agency. You are correct that it does not get revenues from the rest of the government, however - it is part of the federal government.

 

[Mac1958]

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation that is who does. A government agency.

Is it really a government agency ?

NO! It's is basically an insurance Coop established by government edict in 1974 that has government oversight and which insures on a VOLUNTARY participation basis, only about 30% of the private pension plans in this country.

It receives NO...not one dime of government money!

It's a corporation and federal entities can NOT, by well established law, be incorporated!

Oh, and I explained it a post on the last page T. I know I'm long winded, so I don't blame ya for skimming past my stuff! ;~)

Hey pal, just be thankful that Our Great & Glorious Leaders in Central Planning allow you to even exist. Everything you have, everything you are, is because of Them.

Especially if you "own" a business.


.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Is it really a government agency ?

NO! It's is basically an insurance Coop established by government edict in 1974 that has government oversight and which insures on a VOLUNTARY participation basis, only about 30% of the private pension plans in this country.

It receives NO...not one dime of government money!

It's a corporation and federal entities can NOT, by well established law, be incorporated!

Oh, and I explained it a post on the last page T. I know I'm long winded, so I don't blame ya for skimming past my stuff! ;~)

Hey pal, just be thankful that Our Great & Glorious Leaders in Central Planning allow you to even exist. Everything you have, everything you are, is because of Them.

Especially if you "own" a business.


.

I think you've severely misinterpreted the sentence

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. "