GOOD NEWS for Trump supporters: The advanced world trusts Xi & Putin more than Trump

[Devils_Advocate]

The advanced world trusts Xi & Putin more than Trump ?

So your "advanced" world prefers brutal dictators? Who'd have guessed it?

Chinese Death Squads - She said the Communists were not fair.....
View attachment 400549

Putin kills opponents with Radiation Poisoning

Trump supported Putin in killing his rivals. He refused to believe or condemn Russian bounties on our soldiers.

Trump supported Kim Jong Un in the Otto Warmbier killing. Why wouldn’t he believe Kim’s denial?

Trump supported the Saudi Arabian Royal Family in the brutal execution of Khashoggi. Military contracts were more valuable.

That is why the US has fallen in global respect

Nice gish gallop of shit you have there.

I agree

Trump pandering to violent dictators is Gish gallop

Your pretense of being to stupid to understand my clear post is credible.

But, I'm still not buying it.


I accept your admission of defeat.

Trump shamelessly panders to ruthless dictators.
Putin, Kim and Bin Salman

Doesn’t matter if it helps Trumps personal interests

Putin is the ruler of Russia. Our policy towards Russia should be one of Peace as the Cold War is over and we have no conflicts of interests.


Any push to needless confrontation, is stupid and dangerous, and to the extent that people like you push us towards war, for partisan political gain,


you are vile beyond measure.


That is your second point crushed. Your list was a list of garbage.


(I'm jumping the gun a bit, assuming you will not be able to counter my counter point, based on the fact that you never do, and generally just talk shit).

Like you're doing with China?

We want more balanced trade with China. That is a reasonable request.


Unless their leadership is insane, it should not lead to war.

We all do.

We also want a more balanced relationship with Russia. No one is talking war.

No one is talking War on our side but let not fool ourselves and China has been and is playing with fire which could erupt an entire region into war or throw the World into one.

China uses North Korea to rattle it sword in that region and has done so long before Trump became President.

Let remember the many times when the U.S. would hold military maneuvers with countries like South Korea how all of a sudden North Korea would test it muddled and make threats to wipe South Korea and Japan off the face of the Earth, and these were happening during Obama time with China and Russia blessing...

You can not trust nor have faith in either regime when it come to Russia and China when it come to working to a peaceful solution, and Xi and Putin should never be more trustworthy than any American President even if it is Trump...

 

[rightwinger]

Trump less trusted across advanced economies than China's President Xi

The US was also perceived as handling the Covid crisis worse than China has.

www.jpost.com

Overall, on average across the nations surveyed, 83% of respondents had no confidence in Trump, 78% had no confidence in Xi, and 73% had no confidence in Russia's President Vladimir Putin. By contrast, a majority of 76% did have confidence in Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel, and 62% had a favorable opinion of France's President Emmanuel Macron.

Obviously. As I've been saying, now that we have so willingly abdicated our position of Leader of the Free World, it's good to see that Germany can take the title. Good luck to you, Chancellor Merkel, Russia and China cannot gain a foothold here. You have been handed a great responsibility.

I imagine we'll see posts here in full support of our telling the rest of the world to go to hell. So it's a good day for Trump supporters.

It shows why we really, really shouldn't care what the "advanced" world thinks...after all.......the "advanced" world allowed Hitler to murder 12 million innocent men, women and children, the "advanced" world bows to putin and china......

We don't have much to learn from the "advanced" world when they cower behind the protection of the U.S. military and get most of their advanced technology from us...while they bitch and bitch the whole time....

An entire world war, in which we, the US, entered fairly late, indicates the "advanced" world did not "allow it".

Seems it's us bowing to Putin.

Trump certainly isn't bowing to pootin. Provably so. His predecessors however, you might be correct that they were.

Bowing?
More like cowering

Trump still will not investigate Russia paying bounties on US Soldiers.

Kill an American....Win a Prize

Doesnt want to upset his BFF Vlad

Non of that claptrap has been supported by real evidence. OTOH, when pootin invaded Ukraine, obummer sent blankets. Trump sent anti tank missiles.

When obummer sent our troops into Syria, he hamstrung them with rules of engagement that made it almost impossible to defend themselves, he also sent them on endless deployments and cut their budgets to make a military career a non starter.

Trump, OTOH, allowed them to defend themselves to the point where our troops killed over 200 of pootins personal troops.

Trump has reinvigorated the military. Once again making a military career acceptable.

So yeah. It's real easy to see who is sucking pootins cock.

YOUR hero, the obummer.

You tell them Skippy

Putin is Trumps friend. Trump trusts him more than our own intelligence agencies.
Trump can tell if Putin is lying to him
Putin tells him he would NEVER pay a bounty on our soldiers.

Why would Trump care?
He calls our military suckers and losers.
He says he prefers those who were not captured and that POWs are not heroes.

That is why he has lost support of our Military

 

[Mac-7]

Idiocy has taken the world.

No, its lying lib pollsters going international

bit I must admit that german companies are making money in china and the greedy euros love money more than anything else

 

[westwall]

Trump less trusted across advanced economies than China's President Xi

The US was also perceived as handling the Covid crisis worse than China has.

www.jpost.com

Overall, on average across the nations surveyed, 83% of respondents had no confidence in Trump, 78% had no confidence in Xi, and 73% had no confidence in Russia's President Vladimir Putin. By contrast, a majority of 76% did have confidence in Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel, and 62% had a favorable opinion of France's President Emmanuel Macron.

Obviously. As I've been saying, now that we have so willingly abdicated our position of Leader of the Free World, it's good to see that Germany can take the title. Good luck to you, Chancellor Merkel, Russia and China cannot gain a foothold here. You have been handed a great responsibility.

I imagine we'll see posts here in full support of our telling the rest of the world to go to hell. So it's a good day for Trump supporters.

It shows why we really, really shouldn't care what the "advanced" world thinks...after all.......the "advanced" world allowed Hitler to murder 12 million innocent men, women and children, the "advanced" world bows to putin and china......

We don't have much to learn from the "advanced" world when they cower behind the protection of the U.S. military and get most of their advanced technology from us...while they bitch and bitch the whole time....

An entire world war, in which we, the US, entered fairly late, indicates the "advanced" world did not "allow it".

Seems it's us bowing to Putin.

Trump certainly isn't bowing to pootin. Provably so. His predecessors however, you might be correct that they were.

Bowing?
More like cowering

Trump still will not investigate Russia paying bounties on US Soldiers.

Kill an American....Win a Prize

Doesnt want to upset his BFF Vlad

Non of that claptrap has been supported by real evidence. OTOH, when pootin invaded Ukraine, obummer sent blankets. Trump sent anti tank missiles.

When obummer sent our troops into Syria, he hamstrung them with rules of engagement that made it almost impossible to defend themselves, he also sent them on endless deployments and cut their budgets to make a military career a non starter.

Trump, OTOH, allowed them to defend themselves to the point where our troops killed over 200 of pootins personal troops.

Trump has reinvigorated the military. Once again making a military career acceptable.

So yeah. It's real easy to see who is sucking pootins cock.

YOUR hero, the obummer.

You tell them Skippy

Putin is Trumps friend. Trump trusts him more than our own intelligence agencies.
Trump can tell if Putin is lying to him
Putin tells him he would NEVER pay a bounty on our soldiers.

Why would Trump care?
He calls our military suckers and losers.
He says he prefers those who were not captured and that POWs are not heroes.

That is why he has lost support of our Military

Pootin sure likes having his troops killed by us doesn't he.

Your arguments are so stupid. Try better.

 

[rightwinger]

Trump less trusted across advanced economies than China's President Xi

The US was also perceived as handling the Covid crisis worse than China has.

www.jpost.com

Overall, on average across the nations surveyed, 83% of respondents had no confidence in Trump, 78% had no confidence in Xi, and 73% had no confidence in Russia's President Vladimir Putin. By contrast, a majority of 76% did have confidence in Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel, and 62% had a favorable opinion of France's President Emmanuel Macron.

Obviously. As I've been saying, now that we have so willingly abdicated our position of Leader of the Free World, it's good to see that Germany can take the title. Good luck to you, Chancellor Merkel, Russia and China cannot gain a foothold here. You have been handed a great responsibility.

I imagine we'll see posts here in full support of our telling the rest of the world to go to hell. So it's a good day for Trump supporters.

It shows why we really, really shouldn't care what the "advanced" world thinks...after all.......the "advanced" world allowed Hitler to murder 12 million innocent men, women and children, the "advanced" world bows to putin and china......

We don't have much to learn from the "advanced" world when they cower behind the protection of the U.S. military and get most of their advanced technology from us...while they bitch and bitch the whole time....

An entire world war, in which we, the US, entered fairly late, indicates the "advanced" world did not "allow it".

Seems it's us bowing to Putin.

Trump certainly isn't bowing to pootin. Provably so. His predecessors however, you might be correct that they were.

Bowing?
More like cowering

Trump still will not investigate Russia paying bounties on US Soldiers.

Kill an American....Win a Prize

Doesnt want to upset his BFF Vlad

Non of that claptrap has been supported by real evidence. OTOH, when pootin invaded Ukraine, obummer sent blankets. Trump sent anti tank missiles.

When obummer sent our troops into Syria, he hamstrung them with rules of engagement that made it almost impossible to defend themselves, he also sent them on endless deployments and cut their budgets to make a military career a non starter.

Trump, OTOH, allowed them to defend themselves to the point where our troops killed over 200 of pootins personal troops.

Trump has reinvigorated the military. Once again making a military career acceptable.

So yeah. It's real easy to see who is sucking pootins cock.

YOUR hero, the obummer.

You tell them Skippy

Putin is Trumps friend. Trump trusts him more than our own intelligence agencies.
Trump can tell if Putin is lying to him
Putin tells him he would NEVER pay a bounty on our soldiers.

Why would Trump care?
He calls our military suckers and losers.
He says he prefers those who were not captured and that POWs are not heroes.

That is why he has lost support of our Military

Pootin sure likes having his troops killed by us doesn't he.

Your arguments are so stupid. Try better.

Putin put a price on our troops head and Trump would not even investigate it.

 

[2aguy]

Trump less trusted across advanced economies than China's President Xi

The US was also perceived as handling the Covid crisis worse than China has.

www.jpost.com

Overall, on average across the nations surveyed, 83% of respondents had no confidence in Trump, 78% had no confidence in Xi, and 73% had no confidence in Russia's President Vladimir Putin. By contrast, a majority of 76% did have confidence in Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel, and 62% had a favorable opinion of France's President Emmanuel Macron.

Obviously. As I've been saying, now that we have so willingly abdicated our position of Leader of the Free World, it's good to see that Germany can take the title. Good luck to you, Chancellor Merkel, Russia and China cannot gain a foothold here. You have been handed a great responsibility.

I imagine we'll see posts here in full support of our telling the rest of the world to go to hell. So it's a good day for Trump supporters.

This is why your thread is really stupid....this is what the rest of the world does....and why we shouldn't pay attention to what they think about Trump.....the guy actually taking on Russia, China and Iran....

China, Russia, and Cuba were each awarded seats on the United Nations Human Rights Council Tuesday despite their gross abuses of the very rights the council pledges to uphold.

The council, which the United States withdrew from in protest of its condemnation of Israel while bolstering Venezuela and Saudi Arabia two years ago, features a mission statement that its inclusion of rights-violating nations directly contradicts. It reads:
--------------

China is carrying out a genocidal campaign against the nation’s Uighur Muslims. The campaign is the largest mass internment of any ethnic-minority religious group in nearly a century since the Holocaust.

Human Rights Watch, a New York City-based international non-governmental organization, has similarly faulted Cuba and Russia for their human rights abuses. In Cuba, the group wrote, “the government continues to use other repressive tactics against critics, including beatings, public shaming, travel restrictions, and termination of employment.”

In Russia, “authorities responded to rising civic activism with bans, repressive laws, and showcase prosecutions,” the group concluded. “Record numbers of people protested the groundless exclusion of opposition candidates from a local election in Moscow, and authorities responded with an overwhelming show of force, detentions, and rushed criminal prosecutions.”

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo highlighted Tuesday’s UN vote as further justification for the United States leaving the council in 2018.

“The election of China, Russia, and Cuba to the UN Human Rights Council validates the U.S. decision to withdraw from the Council in 2018 and use other venues to protect and promote universal human rights,” Pompeo wrote on Twitter. “U.S. commitment to human rights is far more than just words. We have identified and punished human rights abusers in Xinjiang, Myanmar, Iran, and elsewhere, and call for all nations to take this moment to recommit to the #UDHR.”

Countries With Concentration Camps Elected To UN Human Rights Posts

China, Russia, and Cuba were each awarded seats on the United Nations Human Rights Council despite gross abuses of the very rights it pledges to protect.

thefederalist.com

 

[Mac1958]

Trump less trusted across advanced economies than China's President Xi

The US was also perceived as handling the Covid crisis worse than China has.

www.jpost.com

Overall, on average across the nations surveyed, 83% of respondents had no confidence in Trump, 78% had no confidence in Xi, and 73% had no confidence in Russia's President Vladimir Putin. By contrast, a majority of 76% did have confidence in Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel, and 62% had a favorable opinion of France's President Emmanuel Macron.

Obviously. As I've been saying, now that we have so willingly abdicated our position of Leader of the Free World, it's good to see that Germany can take the title. Good luck to you, Chancellor Merkel, Russia and China cannot gain a foothold here. You have been handed a great responsibility.

I imagine we'll see posts here in full support of our telling the rest of the world to go to hell. So it's a good day for Trump supporters.

This is why your thread is really stupid....this is what the rest of the world does....and why we shouldn't pay attention to what they think about Trump.....the guy actually taking on Russia, China and Iran....

China, Russia, and Cuba were each awarded seats on the United Nations Human Rights Council Tuesday despite their gross abuses of the very rights the council pledges to uphold.

The council, which the United States withdrew from in protest of its condemnation of Israel while bolstering Venezuela and Saudi Arabia two years ago, features a mission statement that its inclusion of rights-violating nations directly contradicts. It reads:
--------------

China is carrying out a genocidal campaign against the nation’s Uighur Muslims. The campaign is the largest mass internment of any ethnic-minority religious group in nearly a century since the Holocaust.

Human Rights Watch, a New York City-based international non-governmental organization, has similarly faulted Cuba and Russia for their human rights abuses. In Cuba, the group wrote, “the government continues to use other repressive tactics against critics, including beatings, public shaming, travel restrictions, and termination of employment.”

In Russia, “authorities responded to rising civic activism with bans, repressive laws, and showcase prosecutions,” the group concluded. “Record numbers of people protested the groundless exclusion of opposition candidates from a local election in Moscow, and authorities responded with an overwhelming show of force, detentions, and rushed criminal prosecutions.”

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo highlighted Tuesday’s UN vote as further justification for the United States leaving the council in 2018.

“The election of China, Russia, and Cuba to the UN Human Rights Council validates the U.S. decision to withdraw from the Council in 2018 and use other venues to protect and promote universal human rights,” Pompeo wrote on Twitter. “U.S. commitment to human rights is far more than just words. We have identified and punished human rights abusers in Xinjiang, Myanmar, Iran, and elsewhere, and call for all nations to take this moment to recommit to the #UDHR.”

Countries With Concentration Camps Elected To UN Human Rights Posts

China, Russia, and Cuba were each awarded seats on the United Nations Human Rights Council despite gross abuses of the very rights it pledges to protect.

thefederalist.com

Why is a thread that simply reports the results of a poll of global opinion "stupid"? You're not making sense.

I would suggest you take it up with the rest of the world, but you have been instructed to think they're beneath you.

The world is changing and evolving without us. You folks have isolated us. I'm sure we'll be fine. Congratulations.

 

[Correll]

tRump is far less stable than the other two. They are bad, but they aren't capricious.

Sure, they're intelligent, cunning and calculating. Stereotypical villains.

Trump sees a problem and beats on it with a stick.

Better than embracing the problem as the new normal and ridiculing the very idea of even addressing the problem.

Isn't that exactly what he's doing?

Nope. He's at least TRYING to get better trade deals.


That you can't even grant him that, and refuse to admit that the alternative offered is just giving up, is you being a partisan hack.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Trump less trusted across advanced economies than China's President Xi

The US was also perceived as handling the Covid crisis worse than China has.

www.jpost.com

Overall, on average across the nations surveyed, 83% of respondents had no confidence in Trump, 78% had no confidence in Xi, and 73% had no confidence in Russia's President Vladimir Putin. By contrast, a majority of 76% did have confidence in Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel, and 62% had a favorable opinion of France's President Emmanuel Macron.

Obviously. As I've been saying, now that we have so willingly abdicated our position of Leader of the Free World, it's good to see that Germany can take the title. Good luck to you, Chancellor Merkel, Russia and China cannot gain a foothold here. You have been handed a great responsibility.

I imagine we'll see posts here in full support of our telling the rest of the world to go to hell. So it's a good day for Trump supporters.

This is why your thread is really stupid....this is what the rest of the world does....and why we shouldn't pay attention to what they think about Trump.....the guy actually taking on Russia, China and Iran....

China, Russia, and Cuba were each awarded seats on the United Nations Human Rights Council Tuesday despite their gross abuses of the very rights the council pledges to uphold.

The council, which the United States withdrew from in protest of its condemnation of Israel while bolstering Venezuela and Saudi Arabia two years ago, features a mission statement that its inclusion of rights-violating nations directly contradicts. It reads:
--------------

China is carrying out a genocidal campaign against the nation’s Uighur Muslims. The campaign is the largest mass internment of any ethnic-minority religious group in nearly a century since the Holocaust.

Human Rights Watch, a New York City-based international non-governmental organization, has similarly faulted Cuba and Russia for their human rights abuses. In Cuba, the group wrote, “the government continues to use other repressive tactics against critics, including beatings, public shaming, travel restrictions, and termination of employment.”

In Russia, “authorities responded to rising civic activism with bans, repressive laws, and showcase prosecutions,” the group concluded. “Record numbers of people protested the groundless exclusion of opposition candidates from a local election in Moscow, and authorities responded with an overwhelming show of force, detentions, and rushed criminal prosecutions.”

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo highlighted Tuesday’s UN vote as further justification for the United States leaving the council in 2018.

“The election of China, Russia, and Cuba to the UN Human Rights Council validates the U.S. decision to withdraw from the Council in 2018 and use other venues to protect and promote universal human rights,” Pompeo wrote on Twitter. “U.S. commitment to human rights is far more than just words. We have identified and punished human rights abusers in Xinjiang, Myanmar, Iran, and elsewhere, and call for all nations to take this moment to recommit to the #UDHR.”

Countries With Concentration Camps Elected To UN Human Rights Posts

China, Russia, and Cuba were each awarded seats on the United Nations Human Rights Council despite gross abuses of the very rights it pledges to protect.

thefederalist.com

Why is a thread that simply reports the results of a poll of global opinion "stupid"? You're not making sense.

I would suggest you take it up with the rest of the world, but you have been instructed to think they're beneath you.

The world is changing and evolving without us. You folks have isolated us. I'm sure we'll be fine. Congratulations.

If you want to follow the world into Orwell's nightmare, feel free. Don't try to sell it here, though. It won't fly.

 

[rightwinger]

The world is changing and evolving without us. You folks have isolated us. I'm sure we'll be fine. Congratulations.

We will eventually mend fences but our role as “Leader of the Free World” is permanently damaged.

It is not going to be just a case of.......Trump is gone, now you can trust us.

The US is just too unstable and swings wildly back and forth depending on who is in power. We no longer keep our agreements.

Germany and France will fill the void.

 

[rightwinger]

Nope. He's at least TRYING to get better trade deals.

He is not even trying.
Trump does not understand that a deal involves concessions and gains for each side.
Trump is great at breaking deals but he is not trusted to keep any new deal.

 

[Mac1958]

The world is changing and evolving without us. You folks have isolated us. I'm sure we'll be fine. Congratulations.

We will eventually mend fences but our role as “Leader of the Free World” is permanently damaged.

It is not going to be just a case of.......Trump is gone, now you can trust us.

The US is just too unstable and swings wildly back and forth depending on who is in power. We no longer keep our agreements.

Germany and France will fill the void.

That's my guess. The EU would have to become more cohesive to deal with both Russia (geopolitical) and China (economic) at their level.

The world would look quite a bit different in four years if Trump wins, with us on the outside looking in. We'd still be very powerful, obviously, but we're already seeing the changes that we can expect going forward. This ain't 1950 any more, and that fact is being kept from some here.

China’s Massive Belt and Road Initiative

Europe Needs to Recognize the Threat From Russia

Putin’s challenge to international norms requires a more forceful response.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

The world is changing and evolving without us. You folks have isolated us. I'm sure we'll be fine. Congratulations.

We will eventually mend fences but our role as “Leader of the Free World” is permanently damaged.

It is not going to be just a case of.......Trump is gone, now you can trust us.

The US is just too unstable and swings wildly back and forth depending on who is in power. We no longer keep our agreements.

Germany and France will fill the void.

That's my guess. The EU would have to become more cohesive to deal with both Russia (geopolitical) and China (economic) at their level.

The world would look quite a bit different in four years if Trump wins, with us on the outside looking in. We'd still be very powerful, obviously, but we're already seeing the changes that we can expect going forward (China’s Massive Belt and Road Initiative). This ain't 1950 any more, and that fact is being kept from some here.

What is the point of the recent "it's not 1950" whine. Of course it's not 1950. What are you claiming?

 

[rightwinger]

The world is changing and evolving without us. You folks have isolated us. I'm sure we'll be fine. Congratulations.

We will eventually mend fences but our role as “Leader of the Free World” is permanently damaged.

It is not going to be just a case of.......Trump is gone, now you can trust us.

The US is just too unstable and swings wildly back and forth depending on who is in power. We no longer keep our agreements.

Germany and France will fill the void.

That's my guess. The EU would have to become more cohesive to deal with both Russia (geopolitical) and China (economic) at their level.

The world would look quite a bit different in four years if Trump wins, with us on the outside looking in. We'd still be very powerful, obviously, but we're already seeing the changes that we can expect going forward. This ain't 1950 any more, and that fact is being kept from some here.

China’s Massive Belt and Road Initiative

Europe Needs to Recognize the Threat From Russia

Putin’s challenge to international norms requires a more forceful response.

www.bloomberg.com

The EU is our economic equivalent. UK used to be a trusted member but they went batshit crazy like we did.

China is now an economic giant. Whether we like it or not, they offer production we can no longer compete with. The way to compete with them is through strong economic alliances with EU and Pacific nations.
Embracing America First puts us at a disadvantage

 

[rightwinger]

How the EU views the US

Trust in the US to “Do the right thing”

 

[westwall]

How the EU views the US

View attachment 401430

Trust in the US to “Do the right thing”

Who cares. The EU is collapsing. They are losing members. The people figured out they are a corrupt bunch and are starting to take back their countries.

Look for more elections to kick the EU to the curb.

 

[Mac1958]

The EU is our economic equivalent. UK used to be a trusted member but they went batshit crazy like we did. China is now an economic giant. Whether we like it or not, they offer production we can no longer compete with. The way to compete with them is through strong economic alliances with EU and Pacific nations. Embracing America First puts us at a disadvantage

This is what happens when one entire side of our political spectrum ignores what's happening outside its little bubble, writing it all off as "fake news".

The world starts to pass us by.

 

[Staidhup]

Leader of the Free World, based on what’s in it for
the respondents, who they turn to when the barbarians stand at their gate?
America is just one nation, not the worlds peace keeper or financial Piggybank, just a model of what can be based on Freedom to choose and Justice.
All but one of the three most trusted is tyrannical, apparently the respondents favor tyranny over freedom, is that what the surveyor is wishing to convey?

 

[Crepitus]

tRump is far less stable than the other two. They are bad, but they aren't capricious.

Sure, they're intelligent, cunning and calculating. Stereotypical villains.

Trump sees a problem and beats on it with a stick.

Better than embracing the problem as the new normal and ridiculing the very idea of even addressing the problem.

Isn't that exactly what he's doing?

Nope. He's at least TRYING to get better trade deals.


That you can't even grant him that, and refuse to admit that the alternative offered is just giving up, is you being a partisan hack.

Lol, that moron couldn't negotiate his way out of a paper sack. His only tactic is bullying, and world leaders aren't easily pushed around like the small time contractors he's spent his life stiffing. He's a one trick pony who's trick doesn't work.

 

[Correll]

Mac is the only one talkign about the 1950s. Over here in the real world, that is just a strawman he made up.

Hardly. There was an entire recent thread devoted to it.

if you really want to discuss our Trump supporter views, talk to us about what they actually are, instead of a hard core lefty's fantasy about what they are.


Unless, you just want to talk shit in a circle jerk?

I would but you guys have a put up a massive 1950's era smoke screen of "commie commie commie". Makes it hard to discuss.

Bullshit. My point stands. You really want to discuss our views, talk to us about them, instead of some hard core lefty who is going to be spewing a big ole pile of shit.