"Good guy" with gun shoots car jacking victim, then flees.

[JimBowie1958]

Yes...tell that to the people shot accidentally by the police......

The logical response to that is how many more would be accidentally, or improperly, shot by police if police had no training at all.

And yet more cops shoot people erroneously with all that training.

 

[JimBowie1958]

And yet the owner is the most likely person to be killed by their gun....

Another lie from the liar Brain357

Facts you don't like are not lies. Get a clue.

Again you show your stupidity.

You have been claiming that all the gun suicides are done with the gun the suicide owned and there is no proof of that. You admitted that when you said that it is 'most likely' which implies that at least some of the suicides were not with the gun the suicide owned.

You get it yet?

No, because you are a stupid liar and cannot think straight.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/01/21/gun-ownership-tied-to-three-fold-increase-in-suicide-risk/

You were giving the number of suicides by gun as being all with the gun that person owned and I told you that is a lie.

What your article says is that there is a heightened risk if a person has access to a gun, and that is not at all what you said that I took issue with.

So again you lie by trying to move the goalposts.

 

[JimBowie1958]

21,500 guns kill the owners each year. .

Again, you lie like a whore.

21k people did not commit suicide with the gun they owned.

Sorry but the gun owner is the most likely person to be shot and killed.

You just admitted that your stats are wrong, idiot since you have to insist on 100% of gun suicides being with the gun the suicide owns for you to say that the number of gun suicides equals the number of gun owners who committed suicide with their own gun.

Yep, you are just that stupid.

You are in some sort of stupid denial that facts just won't help.

Lol, you not understanding the lies you tell doesn't help you either, lol, I just wish all liars were as stupid as you are.

Oh and who do you think owns the guns?

Could be the parents. Could be a stolen gun. Could be a friends gun that was used while the friend slept on the couch.

Could be almost anyone elses gun, doofus.

 

[Asclepias]

Yes...tell that to the people shot accidentally by the police......

The logical response to that is how many more would be accidentally, or improperly, shot by police if police had no training at all.

And yet more cops shoot people erroneously with all that training.

I dont know about you but my guess it would be that there would be many more if there was no training. No one expects an 100% error free condition by better training. You are silly to expect humans to be capable of that.

 

[Brain357]

[
2 million isn't even mathematically possible.

Another Big Lie from the Mother Whore of all Liars.

2,000,000 is completely within the range of mathematical possibility.

Ok, show it using current crime rates and gun ownership rates.

I you cant see how 2 million crimes could be averted in a nation of 310 million people and about 60 million gun owners, then you are an idiot and it would serve me no purpose in trying to explain it to you at all.

You need lots of crime for that, we dnt have enough. Only 1.5 million violent crimes each year. A minority of the population can't be stopping 2 million moron.

 

[Brain357]

21,500 guns kill the owners each year. .

Again, you lie like a whore.

21k people did not commit suicide with the gun they owned.

Sorry but the gun owner is the most likely person to be shot and killed.

You just admitted that your stats are wrong, idiot since you have to insist on 100% of gun suicides being with the gun the suicide owns for you to say that the number of gun suicides equals the number of gun owners who committed suicide with their own gun.

Yep, you are just that stupid.

You are in some sort of stupid denial that facts just won't help.

Lol, you not understanding the lies you tell doesn't help you either, lol, I just wish all liars were as stupid as you are.

Oh and who do you think owns the guns?

Could be the parents. Could be a stolen gun. Could be a friends gun that was used while the friend slept on the couch.

Could be almost anyone elses gun, doofus.

Ok does it sound better the most likely person to be shot is you or your family?

 

[JimBowie1958]

You need lots of crime for that, we dnt have enough. Only 1.5 million violent crimes each year. A minority of the population can't be stopping 2 million moron.

We have 1.5 million successfully committed crimes, but for every c rime committed there are many multiples of crimes that were averted for various reasons.

Do you actually know anyone that made a living from robbery or break ins? I have known plenty of them, and for every crime they pull off they have half a dozen that they abandon for bad vibes, the owner came home suddenly, they got cold feet for some reason, etc.

So that would give about 9 million crimes averted each year. Could a big slice of that be due to the perp seeing his target is armed? of course. But how many? I don't know.

Here are some related links.
"The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”

CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’

"Though he stresses that the results of the survey are preliminary and subject to future revision, Kleck is satisfied that the survey's results confirm his analysis of previous surveys which show that American civilians commonly use their privately-owned firearms to defend themselves against criminal attacks, and that such defensive uses significantly outnumber the criminal uses of firearms in America. The new survey, conducted by random telephone sampling of 4,978 households in all the states except Alaska and Hawaii, yield results indicating that American civilians use their firearms as often as 2.5 million times every year defending against a confrontation with a criminal, and that handguns alone account for up to 1.9 million defenses per year. "

Private Guns Stop Crime 2.5M Times A Year In US

 

[JimBowie1958]

Ok does it sound better the most likely person to be shot is you or your family?

Sounds likely to be more accurate, but still it ignores the case where a dude goes to a party, is manic-depressive and gets his hosts gun that he knows is hidden in the master bedroom closet and blows his brains out.

It also ignores the cases where the suicide is down with a stolen gun, and there's lots of them too, you know?

What would be the best thing is to find some study on where guns come from that are most often used in homicides. I cant find anything on that.

This discusses it abit though.


Freakonomics » On Suicide and Guns

 

[Brain357]

Ok does it sound better the most likely person to be shot is you or your family?

Sounds likely to be more accurate, but still it ignores the case where a dude goes to a party, is manic-depressive and gets his hosts gun that he knows is hidden in the master bedroom closet and blows his brains out.

It also ignores the cases where the suicide is down with a stolen gun, and there's lots of them too, you know?

Ok the most likely person to die from the gun is the owner or his family or friends. I don't see how that is much better. It certainly isn't a bad guy who is mostly getting shot.

 

[Brain357]

You need lots of crime for that, we dnt have enough. Only 1.5 million violent crimes each year. A minority of the population can't be stopping 2 million moron.

We have 1.5 million successfully committed crimes, but for every c rime committed there are many multiples of crimes that were averted for various reasons.

Do you actually know anyone that made a living from robbery or break ins? I have known plenty of them, and for every crime they pull off they have half a dozen that they abandon for bad vibes, the owner came home suddenly, they got cold feet for some reason, etc.

So that would give about 9 million crimes averted each year. Could a big slice of that be due to the perp seeing his target is armed? of course. But how many? I don't know.

Here are some related links.
"The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”

CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’

"Though he stresses that the results of the survey are preliminary and subject to future revision, Kleck is satisfied that the survey's results confirm his analysis of previous surveys which show that American civilians commonly use their privately-owned firearms to defend themselves against criminal attacks, and that such defensive uses significantly outnumber the criminal uses of firearms in America. The new survey, conducted by random telephone sampling of 4,978 households in all the states except Alaska and Hawaii, yield results indicating that American civilians use their firearms as often as 2.5 million times every year defending against a confrontation with a criminal, and that handguns alone account for up to 1.9 million defenses per year. "

Private Guns Stop Crime 2.5M Times A Year In US

Gee you are buddies with criminals, no wonder you love guns.

You will have to provide some link to the numbers you are making up.

 

[JimBowie1958]

It certainly isn't a bad guy who is mostly getting shot.

What data points are you using to conclude that?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Gee you are buddies with criminals, no wonder you love guns.

Well, you cant pick your family, you know?

You will have to provide some link to the numbers you are making up.

The 6 to 1 correlation of aborted crimes to committed crime is the only one a made up and it is based on my personal experience talking to criminals of various kinds. I provided links to the rest, but apparently you didn't read them.

 

[Brain357]

It certainly isn't a bad guy who is mostly getting shot.

What data points are you using to conclude that?

Justifiable homicide. Only about 230 criminals killed in defense each year. Compared to 8500 innocent victims, 500 accidental, 20k suicides. Criminals least likely to be shot and killed.

 

[Brain357]

Gee you are buddies with criminals, no wonder you love guns.

Well, you cant pick your family, you know?

You will have to provide some link to the numbers you are making up.

The 6 to 1 correlation of aborted crimes to committed crime is the only one a made up and it is based on my personal experience talking to criminals of various kinds. I provided links to the rest, but apparently you didn't read them.

Yes you made it up and it pretty important. Link something that supports that and we can continue.

 

[JimBowie1958]

It certainly isn't a bad guy who is mostly getting shot.

What data points are you using to conclude that?

Justifiable homicide. Only about 230 criminals killed in defense each year. Compared to 8500!olinnocent victims, 500 accidental, 20k suicides. Criminals least likely to be shot and killed.

Not all criminals run off with a gun shot are killed or even hit and wounded, and most of the time, just seeing the gun was enough for them to change plans. It is the abortion of the crime that is the key stat, not how many criminals are actually killed.

 

[Brain357]

It certainly isn't a bad guy who is mostly getting shot.

What data points are you using to conclude that?

Justifiable homicide. Only about 230 criminals killed in defense each year. Compared to 8500!olinnocent victims, 500 accidental, 20k suicides. Criminals least likely to be shot and killed.

Not all criminals run off with a gun shot are killed or even hit and wounded, and most of the time, just seeing the gun was enough for them to change plans. It is the abortion of the crime that is the key stat, not how many criminals are actually killed.

That doesn't change that criminals are the least likely to be shot, which is what i said.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Texas ‘good guy with a gun’ shoots carjacking victim in head — then runs away

At least he didn't kill him.

Road to Hell comes to mind.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Yes you made it up and it pretty important. Link something that supports that and we can continue.

There is a difference between a factoid that is 'made up' and a factoid gained from personal experience, dude.

And I have googled this topic many times and still have not found anything that gives a ratio of crimes planed vrs crimes committed.

That is my experience, take it or leave it but it isn't 'made up', lol.

 

[JimBowie1958]

It certainly isn't a bad guy who is mostly getting shot.

What data points are you using to conclude that?

Justifiable homicide. Only about 230 criminals killed in defense each year. Compared to 8500!olinnocent victims, 500 accidental, 20k suicides. Criminals least likely to be shot and killed.

Not all criminals run off with a gun shot are killed or even hit and wounded, and most of the time, just seeing the gun was enough for them to change plans. It is the abortion of the crime that is the key stat, not how many criminals are actually killed.

That doesn't change that criminals are the least likely to be shot, which is what i said.

And which entirely misses the point of crimes being AVERTED.

 

[Brain357]

Yes you made it up and it pretty important. Link something that supports that and we can continue.

There is a difference between a factoid that is 'made up' and a factoid gained from personal experience, dude.

And I have googled this topic many times and still have not found anything that gives a ratio of crimes planed vrs crimes committed.

That is my experience, take it or leave it but it isn't 'made up', lol.

I'll leave it obviously. One persons experience on a matter like this could not speak for the entire country. It says a lot that you hangout with criminals however.