Zone1 God's Justice versus His Generosity

[Meriweather]

Question: When God judges you, based on the following, do you see yourself on the receiving end of God's great justice, or His generosity?

Last Sunday we read the Gospel about the vineyard workers. Early in the morning, the master of the vineyard and the early workers settled on a just wage for a day's work. Throughout the day, the master kept bringing in additional workers, ups to the final hour. At the end of the hour he paid everyone the same just wage that was settled at the beginning of the day. Those who worked all day complained and master basically told them his generosity to others was none of their business.

In today's Gospel, Jesus' tell everyone that his mother, brothers, and sisters were those who hear the word of God and act on it. Jesus elevates those who act on the word of God into his family. Scripture notes that the word of God is written on all hearts. Once again, we witness generosity.

 

[ding]

Question: When God judges you, based on the following, do you see yourself on the receiving end of God's great justice, or His generosity?

Last Sunday we read the Gospel about the vineyard workers. Early in the morning, the master of the vineyard and the early workers settled on a just wage for a day's work. Throughout the day, the master kept bringing in additional workers, ups to the final hour. At the end of the hour he paid everyone the same just wage that was settled at the beginning of the day. Those who worked all day complained and master basically told them his generosity to others was none of their business.

In today's Gospel, Jesus' tell everyone that his mother, brothers, and sisters were those who hear the word of God and act on it. Jesus elevates those who act on the word of God into his family. Scripture notes that the word of God is written on all hearts. Once again, we witness generosity.

Couldn’t it be both?

 

[Meriweather]

Couldn’t it be both?

Yes!

Yet dig down deep, make out a tally sheet, and I will bet that many will find that God's generosity to others will be greater than His generosity to them. Redemption and salvation is huge generosity alone, but everyone starts with that...which moves us along to the parable of the Ten Talents, where we are expected to increase what was given us.

That parable ends with, To those who have more, more will be given, and talents will be taken from those who did not increase them and be given to those who have more.

The second passage I chose says ALL who hear the word of God and act on it are in the family of Christ. People of other faiths and denominations--and no faith at all--hear the word of God and act on it. Instead of focusing on this, too many delight in thinking that those who do not accept Christ will end up in hell! Why aren't we spreading the good news of the other passage!

My own list would probably read something like, Justice, justice, justice, justice, justice, generosity, justice, justice, justice, justice, justice, justice, justice, justice, justice, generosity.

Justice, given where it begins, is a tremendous act of generosity. Then note the occasions where more generosity is piled upon the generosity already in justice, one might truly experience amazement and awe. Try it! (If you haven't already.!)

 

[Grumblenuts]

To those who have more, more will be given, and talents will be taken from those who did not increase them and be given to those who have more.

 

[Cougarbear]

Yes!

Yet dig down deep, make out a tally sheet, and I will bet that many will find that God's generosity to others will be greater than His generosity to them. Redemption and salvation is huge generosity alone, but everyone starts with that...which moves us along to the parable of the Ten Talents, where we are expected to increase what was given us.

That parable ends with, To those who have more, more will be given, and talents will be taken from those who did not increase them and be given to those who have more.

The second passage I chose says ALL who hear the word of God and act on it are in the family of Christ. People of other faiths and denominations--and no faith at all--hear the word of God and act on it. Instead of focusing on this, too many delight in thinking that those who do not accept Christ will end up in hell! Why aren't we spreading the good news of the other passage!

My own list would probably read something like, Justice, justice, justice, justice, justice, generosity, justice, justice, justice, justice, justice, justice, justice, justice, justice, generosity.

Justice, given where it begins, is a tremendous act of generosity. Then note the occasions where more generosity is piled upon the generosity already in justice, one might truly experience amazement and awe. Try it! (If you haven't already.!)

I hate to say this, but for generosity sakes, your ramble sounds more like Kamala Harris

 

[Meriweather]

I hate to say this

You loved saying it. Nor could you bypass the insult.

I presented two teachings and reflections of Christ that were in the Gospels Catholics heard, read, and studied this past week. They made an impact on me. If you gain nothing from them, perhaps it is because the LDS focus was on other Gospel stories.

 

[Cougarbear]

You loved saying it. Nor could you bypass the insult.

I presented two teachings and reflections of Christ that were in the Gospels Catholics heard, read, and studied this past week. They made an impact on me. If you gain nothing from them, perhaps it is because the LDS focus was on other Gospel stories.

Yes, it made an impact on you! As with Kamala, you spoke in foreign tongues

Remember, mercy cannot rob Justice. If God’s judgment is hard we should think of it as something positive to make changes in our lives. That is generous of the Lord to do so.
Even the great flood or the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah were generous to those who would have been born there and then. They were born elsewhere and a different time so they could have the choice of good and evil. Very generous.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, it made an impact on you! As with Kamala, you spoke in foreign tongues

Remember, mercy cannot rob Justice. If God’s judgment is hard we should think of it as something positive to make changes in our lives. That is generous of the Lord to do so.
Even the great flood or the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah were generous to those who would have been born there and then. They were born elsewhere and a different time so they could have the choice of good and evil. Very generous.

You are on an entirely different train of thought. Have a nice ride.

 

[Cougarbear]

You are on an entirely different train of thought. Have a nice ride.

Were you not claiming that Justice = Generosity?

 

[Meriweather]

Were you not claiming that Justice = Generosity?

No.

 

[Grumblenuts]

the parable of the Ten Talents, where we are expected to increase what was given us.

Lent. Not given.

In both Matthew and Luke, a master puts his servants in charge of his goods while he is away on a trip. Upon his return, the master assesses the stewardship of his servants. He evaluates them according to how faithful each was in making wise investments of his goods to obtain a profit. It is clear that the master sought some profit from the servants' oversight. A gain indicated faithfulness on the part of the servants. The master rewards his servants according to how each has handled his stewardship. He judges two servants as having been "faithful" and gives them a positive reward. To the single "unfaithful" servant, who avoided even the safe profit of bank interest, a negative compensation is given.

Usury:

In many historical societies including ancient Christian, Jewish, and Islamic societies, usury meant the charging of interest of any kind, and was considered wrong, or was made illegal.

Jesus: Suffice it to say, far as "Religion and Ethics" are concerned here, "Thou shalt do as I say, not as I do!"

 

[Cougarbear]

No.

Then I was correct. Kamala Harris wanna be

 

[Meriweather]

Lent. Not given.

Isn't to be put in charge of something that belongs to someone else an assignment/employment that is given, not lent?

Jesus: Suffice it to say, far as "Religion and Ethics" are concerned here, "Thou shalt do as I say, not as I do!"

I recently toured what was once a productive gold mine. People were paid to mine gold, they were not given the gold they brought up. In fact they had to strip naked and be searched before allowed to leave the mine.

Do you see the two forms of employment as different, or do you see only one as lending? After all, the mine employer lent his employees entrance and time in the mine.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Question: When God judges you, based on the following, do you see yourself on the receiving end of God's great justice, or His generosity?

Last Sunday we read the Gospel about the vineyard workers. Early in the morning, the master of the vineyard and the early workers settled on a just wage for a day's work. Throughout the day, the master kept bringing in additional workers, ups to the final hour. At the end of the hour he paid everyone the same just wage that was settled at the beginning of the day. Those who worked all day complained and master basically told them his generosity to others was none of their business.

In today's Gospel, Jesus' tell everyone that his mother, brothers, and sisters were those who hear the word of God and act on it. Jesus elevates those who act on the word of God into his family. Scripture notes that the word of God is written on all hearts. Once again, we witness generosity.

That story was unique as I always felt that the owner had a point as long as the workers agreed to the wage ahead of time, it isn't really their business how he remunerates the others. Also, when reading rhe 613 mitvahs, I had a slightly different take as one of the mitvahs demands that a worker be paid for their work by end of day. These are G_ds commandments. Maybe the people of that period believed it was more appropriate in the eyes of G_d to pay a living wage, even if not for a full day of work? It is somewhat related to this mitvah so I can only speculate.

 

[BreezeWood]

and master basically told them his generosity to others was none of their business.

it isn't really their business how he remunerates the others.

only for those that worship the false religion of servitude and denial, christianity ...

- for which would forgo any judgement by the heavens to begin with.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Isn't to be put in charge of something that belongs to someone else an assignment/employment that is given, not lent?

That's certainly a stretch, but perhaps it could be both at times: lend

However, in this case the lender is demanding interest or else.. thus "usury."

Picture having kids clog up your attic with their junk. Finally grown, you grant each permission to leave some of it there while they get settled into their new homes. You remind them regularly, but they never remove any of it. Then, while visiting one day, years later, they start bitching about how you never sold it for them at a tidy profit from which they might have offered you a portion in return out of goodness of their blessed little hearts.. thus compensating you for them clogging up your attic space all those years while charging them zero rent. And it's still there.. patiently waiting for you to dispose of it all..

Meanwhile, these days anyways, you may have noticed that people regularly pay dearly to rent "storage space" for their excess junk. You do put someone else "in charge of something that belongs to" you. But the only "giving" involved is you paying them to maintain some of your "capital" or property. You contractually and periodically pay them with real currency -- akin to above mentioned "tenants" -- based upon the amount of time you leave your junk on their property. Try "giving" your junk to a bank or otherwise "investing" it yourself if you really expect some sort of ROI.

 

[Meriweather]

That story was unique as I always felt that the owner had a point as long as the workers agreed to the wage ahead of time, it isn't really their business how he remunerates the others. Also, when reading rhe 613 mitvahs, I had a slightly different take as one of the mitvahs demands that a worker be paid for their work by end of day. These are G_ds commandments. Maybe the people of that period believed it was more appropriate in the eyes of G_d to pay a living wage, even if not for a full day of work? It is somewhat related to this mitvah so I can only speculate.

I have read the same and agree with your speculation. Instead of arriving back in their homes with very little to feed and provide for their families that day, they had enough. I can imagine the relief--and the family's joy. Then I remember it was a parable! Even so.

 

[Meriweather]

That's certainly a stretch, but perhaps it could be both at times: lend

I do see your point if in fact it is lending. I still think it better falls under the definition of employment or a contract for services.

In the Bible story, the servants were all provided for outside the money they had been given to invest. Now that I think about it, if you were to give money to a stockbroker to invest for you, would you agree that when you returned, the stockbroker would return only your initial investment to you and that he would keep all the income that investment had earned?

Are those investing in the stock market today committing ursury?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Meanwhile, these days anyways, you may have noticed that people regularly pay dearly to rent "storage space" for their excess junk. You do put someone else "in charge of something that belongs to" you. But the only "giving" involved is you paying them to maintain some of your "capital" or property. You contractually and periodically pay them with real currency -- akin to above mentioned "tenants" -- based upon the amount of time you leave your junk on their property. Try "giving" your junk to a bank or otherwise "investing" it yourself if you really expect some sort of ROI.

^I meant "talents" not "tenants"

 

[Meriweather]

Picture having kids clog up your attic with their junk. Finally grown, you grant each permission to leave some of it there while they get settled into their new homes. You remind them regularly, but they never remove any of it. Then, while visiting one day, years later, they start bitching about how you never sold it for them at a tidy profit from which they might have offered you a portion in return out of goodness of their blessed little hearts.. thus compensating you for them clogging up your attic space all those years while charging them zero rent. And it's still there.. patiently waiting for you to dispose of it all..

Meanwhile, these days anyways, you may have noticed that people regularly pay dearly to rent "storage space" for their excess junk. You do put someone else "in charge of something that belongs to" you. But the only "giving" involved is you paying them to maintain some of your "capital" or property. You contractually and periodically pay them with real currency -- akin to above mentioned "tenants" -- based upon the amount of time you leave your junk on their property. Try "giving" your junk to a bank or otherwise "investing" it yourself if you really expect some sort of ROI.

Again, I see your point. When I got tired of storing the kids stuff, I think I would have started to mail them a monthly bill for storage. Picture them getting tired of paying for storage and coming by to pick up their stuff. After they had loaded it all up, I would have given them cash amounting to all they had paid for storage. Win-win.