God or Conscience?

[dilloduck]

Poppycock--"scientists" speculate all the time. The unknown is their cup of tea and meal ticket.

Speculation, as the beginning stages of the scientific method, is fine - so long as there is evidence soon coming to determine its validity. Speculation, period, is indeed poppycock.

The statements "I speculate that the sun revolves around the earth" and... "I speculate that God exists" each hold the same amount of validity, none. There is no evidence for either. In the case of the sun and the earth, there is in fact convincing evidence to prove the opposite to be true.

You have to be patient

 

[Tetracide]

Poppycock--"scientists" speculate all the time. The unknown is their cup of tea and meal ticket.

Speculation, as the beginning stages of the scientific method, is fine - so long as there is evidence soon coming to determine its validity. Speculation, period, is indeed poppycock.

The statements "I speculate that the sun revolves around the earth" and... "I speculate that God exists" each hold the same amount of validity, none. There is no evidence for either. In the case of the sun and the earth, there is in fact convincing evidence to prove the opposite to be true.

You have to be patient

With what? What is your argument? Do you have an argument? Do you disagree with me? What's going on here?

 

[dilloduck]

Speculation, as the beginning stages of the scientific method, is fine - so long as there is evidence soon coming to determine its validity. Speculation, period, is indeed poppycock.

The statements "I speculate that the sun revolves around the earth" and... "I speculate that God exists" each hold the same amount of validity, none. There is no evidence for either. In the case of the sun and the earth, there is in fact convincing evidence to prove the opposite to be true.

You have to be patient

With what? What is your argument? Do you have an argument? Do you disagree with me? What's going on here?

My argument is that men who seek the truth have a special relationship with the unknown. Unknown yet they are sure something is around the next bend. Why pursue anything unless you think something is bound to be there ? I doubt they built the Hubble to take pictures of a cool light show.

 

[Tetracide]

My argument is that men who seek the truth have a special relationship with the unknown.

True. Because turning the unknown into the known is an exercise in the human capacity of reason. It involves evidence-seeking, experimentation, guess, and eventually, truth (regardless of truth's relationship with our guess).

Unknown yet they are sure something is around the next bend.

By what means are they sure? Intuition or evidence? Intuition is a fools errand that will lead man down a path of ignorance. Evidence-seeking is the human project that has given us so much understanding of nature (i.e. physics, chemistry, geology, meteorology, ect.)

Why pursue anything unless you think something is bound to be there? I doubt they built the Hubble to take pictures of a cool light show.

They built it to gather more data about observable space, to further understand what those bright dots are in the sky. A caveman can look to the sky and think, I'd love to know what those are. But he cannot think, I'd love to know what a nebula is made out of. He doesn't know what a nebula is. He's seen no such thing. It isn't until a nebula is discovered can we further seek to understand it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

...if We learn to put God first in all things...

If your God demands something that goes against your conscience, which do you follow and why? Do you do what is right in your heart and risk God's wrath, or do you obey in order to receive reward, you conscience be damned?

If that ever happens I will let you know.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No I won't.

 

[Ropey]

My argument is that men who seek the truth have a special relationship with the unknown.

True. Because turning the unknown into the known is an exercise in the human capacity of reason. It involves evidence-seeking, experimentation, guess, and eventually, truth (regardless of truth's relationship with our guess).

Unknown yet they are sure something is around the next bend.

By what means are they sure? Intuition or evidence? Intuition is a fools errand that will lead man down a path of ignorance. Evidence-seeking is the human project that has given us so much understanding of nature (i.e. physics, chemistry, geology, meteorology, ect.)

Why pursue anything unless you think something is bound to be there? I doubt they built the Hubble to take pictures of a cool light show.

They built it to gather more data about observable space, to further understand what those bright dots are in the sky. A caveman can look to the sky and think, I'd love to know what those are. But he cannot think, I'd love to know what a nebula is made out of. He doesn't know what a nebula is. He's seen no such thing. It isn't until a nebula is discovered can we further seek to understand it.

Good post Tetracide. The science proves that which intuition never can. The intuition needs the science (and many other things as well) in order to become clear. The science needs only be found.

Intuition on its own, can not support even the words. A component? Quite possibly and definitely arguable. Necessary? Not possible to prove.

 

[amrchaos]

According to the believers claims about God, God does not need to demand anything from you or anyone else. In fact, the very ideea that god even take interest in humans is just the human ego playing tricks on itself in order to delude the person that s/he actual contain some value.

God does not need man. Man need God. And if God needed something, All God has to do is drop a word and BAM! It is so!

It beats dealing with mistake-prone foolish cowardly and weak humans with a god complex!!

 

[Tetracide]

God does not need man. Man need God.

God, as a concept, would not exist if man didn't recognize Him.

 

[amrchaos]

God does not need man. Man need God.

God, as a concept, would not exist if man didn't recognize Him.

I thought this topic included the implication "If there is a god..."

It is kind of hard arguing for or against if you assumed "The existance of God is a bunch of Hooey!"

 

[Tetracide]

God does not need man. Man need God.

God, as a concept, would not exist if man didn't recognize Him.

I thought this topic included the implication "If there is a god..."

It is kind of hard arguing for or against if you assumed "The existance of God is a bunch of Hooey!"

True. I just refuse to accept their premises. No need for me to pretend to believe something that goes against human nature.

 

[Anachronism]

If your God demands something that goes against your conscience, which do you follow and why? Do you do what is right in your heart and risk God's wrath, or do you obey in order to receive reward, you conscience be damned?

Interestingly enough that's part of why I'm no longer a Christian. I got to a point where I found that I could not make the beliefs of the church I had grown up in correlate with what I saw in the world around me. I could no longer deal with the separation of words and deeds that I saw on a daily basis both from the Divine and from His followers.

 

[Wingsofwind]

If your God demands something that goes against your conscience, which do you follow and why? Do you do what is right in your heart and risk God's wrath, or do you obey in order to receive reward, you conscience be damned?

Interestingly enough that's part of why I'm no longer a Christian. I got to a point where I found that I could not make the beliefs of the church I had grown up in correlate with what I saw in the world around me. I could no longer deal with the separation of words and deeds that I saw on a daily basis both from the Divine and from His followers.

The Bible explains that the followers (the true ones) are not part of this world. Maybe that is why you saw it the way you did.

 

[uscitizen]

...if We learn to put God first in all things...

If your God demands something that goes against your conscience, which do you follow and why? Do you do what is right in your heart and risk God's wrath, or do you obey in order to receive reward, you conscience be damned?

Well since no god has ever demanded anything of me...

Preachers, relatives, parents, etc have made religious based demands of me. I learned to ignore all of those.

 

[Anachronism]

The Bible explains that the followers (the true ones) are not part of this world. Maybe that is why you saw it the way you did.

Maybe. Without getting into the nitty-gritty details that nobody cares about I had just watched a 125 year old congregation rip itself apart, literally losing more than half of its members due to POLITICS (of the church, not the government). I had also just watched the most Good and Faithful man I've ever known, suffer for 33 months with cancer before dying on his 54th birthday. I had a very hard time squaring those two things (and some other issues) with the supposedly loving, wonderful, God that I'd been hearing about for 27 years.

 

[Wingsofwind]

The Bible explains that the followers (the true ones) are not part of this world. Maybe that is why you saw it the way you did.

Maybe. Without getting into the nitty-gritty details that nobody cares about I had just watched a 125 year old congregation rip itself apart, literally losing more than half of its members due to POLITICS (of the church, not the government). I had also just watched the most Good and Faithful man I've ever known, suffer for 33 months with cancer before dying on his 54th birthday. I had a very hard time squaring those two things (and some other issues) with the supposedly loving, wonderful, God that I'd been hearing about for 27 years.

God never said the believers would never have any suffering during this life. The believers are not part of this world but they do live in it and are prone to the things that happen.

Also, many so called 'churches' try to use people's emotions to build up a congregation. This is one reason why you should not let your feelings determine what you do or believe.

 

[JoReba]

...if We learn to put God first in all things...

If your God demands something that goes against your conscience, which do you follow and why? Do you do what is right in your heart and risk God's wrath, or do you obey in order to receive reward, you conscience be damned?

A healthy, well trained, and correctly functioning conscience always agrees with God.

 

[AVG-JOE]

...if We learn to put God first in all things...

If your God demands something that goes against your conscience, which do you follow and why? Do you do what is right in your heart and risk God's wrath, or do you obey in order to receive reward, you conscience be damned?

A healthy, well trained, and correctly functioning conscience always agrees with God.

All that proves is that belief sets are like nipples - everyone has a set and no two sets are exactly alike.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

...if We learn to put God first in all things...

If your God demands something that goes against your conscience, which do you follow and why? Do you do what is right in your heart and risk God's wrath, or do you obey in order to receive reward, you conscience be damned?

A healthy, well trained, and correctly functioning conscience always agrees with God.

Would killing your son be the act of a healthy, well trained, correctly functioning, conscious?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If your God demands something that goes against your conscience, which do you follow and why? Do you do what is right in your heart and risk God's wrath, or do you obey in order to receive reward, you conscience be damned?

A healthy, well trained, and correctly functioning conscience always agrees with God.

All that proves is that belief sets are like nipples - everyone has a set and no two sets are exactly alike.

I thought it just proved he is an idiot.