"God" is a tyrant.

[ding]

Now you've wandered back into the philosophical. There is no such thing. Moral laws, I mean. Evolution of matter is something I am not familiar with, and cannot speak to with authority.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

But there are. Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes?

Yes.

So a teenage girl who goes out partying every night and is sexually promiscuous and has unprotected sex three nights a week will score as well on the SAT and go to college and be successful in life as a teenage girl who stays home studying?

Or a man who cheats on his wife will have as loving relationship with his wife as a man who is devoted and faithful to his wife?

.

spinning out of control alert ... can't stop himself.

He wants to believe that he lives in a world where "good" is rewarded, and "evil" is punished. Unfortunately, the reality is that "good" and 'evil" are fluid, and even in the cases where it is less so, crime, and punishment rarely has anything to do with some cosmic balance sheet. I mean, look at the success of Donald Trump. Clearly, being "virtuous" is not necessary to be successful.

I guess that depends how you define success. Two honest people will always have a better relationship than two dishonest people.

 

[Czernobog]

Yes.

So a teenage girl who goes out partying every night and is sexually promiscuous and has unprotected sex will score as well on the SAT as a teenage girl who stays home studying?

Or a man who cheats on his wife will have as loving relationship with his wife as a man who is devoted and faithful to his wife?

Sure.

I see. So a man who is dishonest, cheats, steals and is lazy will be just as likely to get into trouble with the law as a man who is honest and hard working?

Have you seen our police, and courts? And you need to ask that question?!?! Yeah. Yeah he is.

I see it a little differently. Reason and experience tell us that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Reason and experience tell us that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and that failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. That's why they are called natural laws.

No, they don't. Reason, and experience tell us that "good" and 'evil" are fluid, and that success, or failure in this world has very little to do with some cosmic ethical balance sheet.

 

[ding]

But there are. Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes?

Yes.

So a teenage girl who goes out partying every night and is sexually promiscuous and has unprotected sex will score as well on the SAT as a teenage girl who stays home studying?

Or a man who cheats on his wife will have as loving relationship with his wife as a man who is devoted and faithful to his wife?

Sure.

I see. So a man who is dishonest, cheats, steals and is lazy will be just as likely to get into trouble with the law as a man who is honest and hard working?

Have you seen our police, and courts? And you need to ask that question?!?! Yeah. Yeah he is.

You have pretty strange beliefs for someone who is supposed to have a PhD in psychiatry.

Happiness and Virtue

 

[Czernobog]

But there are. Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes?

Yes.

So a teenage girl who goes out partying every night and is sexually promiscuous and has unprotected sex three nights a week will score as well on the SAT and go to college and be successful in life as a teenage girl who stays home studying?

Or a man who cheats on his wife will have as loving relationship with his wife as a man who is devoted and faithful to his wife?

.

spinning out of control alert ... can't stop himself.

He wants to believe that he lives in a world where "good" is rewarded, and "evil" is punished. Unfortunately, the reality is that "good" and 'evil" are fluid, and even in the cases where it is less so, crime, and punishment rarely has anything to do with some cosmic balance sheet. I mean, look at the success of Donald Trump. Clearly, being "virtuous" is not necessary to be successful.

I guess that depends how you define success. Two honest people will always have a better relationship than two dishonest people.

If you say so. Again, reason, and experience has informed me very differently. Like I said, your Moral Laws are not even scientifically demonstrable, do not pre-exist man, let alone the universe. Morality is entirely a man-made construct.

 

[ding]

So a teenage girl who goes out partying every night and is sexually promiscuous and has unprotected sex will score as well on the SAT as a teenage girl who stays home studying?

Or a man who cheats on his wife will have as loving relationship with his wife as a man who is devoted and faithful to his wife?

Sure.

I see. So a man who is dishonest, cheats, steals and is lazy will be just as likely to get into trouble with the law as a man who is honest and hard working?

Have you seen our police, and courts? And you need to ask that question?!?! Yeah. Yeah he is.

I see it a little differently. Reason and experience tell us that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Reason and experience tell us that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and that failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. That's why they are called natural laws.

No, they don't. Reason, and experience tell us that "good" and 'evil" are fluid, and that success, or failure in this world has very little to do with some cosmic ethical balance sheet.

Do you have any scientific data that supports your position? Anything at all will do.

"Morality describes the principles that govern our behavior. Without these principles in place, societies cannot survive for long."

Morality

 

[Czernobog]

Yes.

So a teenage girl who goes out partying every night and is sexually promiscuous and has unprotected sex will score as well on the SAT as a teenage girl who stays home studying?

Or a man who cheats on his wife will have as loving relationship with his wife as a man who is devoted and faithful to his wife?

Sure.

I see. So a man who is dishonest, cheats, steals and is lazy will be just as likely to get into trouble with the law as a man who is honest and hard working?

Have you seen our police, and courts? And you need to ask that question?!?! Yeah. Yeah he is.

You have pretty strange beliefs for someone who is supposed to have a PhD in psychiatry.

Happiness and Virtue

Ya know what/ I don't have to defend my degree to a guy that knows how to look shit up online. Go spend 8 years studying psychiatry, and learn all of the different theories of decision making, behaviour, and counselling, then come talk to me. Who the hell do you think you are???

 

[Czernobog]

The Problem with Beliefs

 

[ding]

So a teenage girl who goes out partying every night and is sexually promiscuous and has unprotected sex will score as well on the SAT as a teenage girl who stays home studying?

Or a man who cheats on his wife will have as loving relationship with his wife as a man who is devoted and faithful to his wife?

Sure.

I see. So a man who is dishonest, cheats, steals and is lazy will be just as likely to get into trouble with the law as a man who is honest and hard working?

Have you seen our police, and courts? And you need to ask that question?!?! Yeah. Yeah he is.

You have pretty strange beliefs for someone who is supposed to have a PhD in psychiatry.

Happiness and Virtue

Ya know what/ I don't have to defend my degree to a guy that knows how to look shit up online. Go spend 8 years studying psychiatry, and learn all of the different theories of decision making, behaviour, and counselling, then come talk to me. Who the hell do you think you are???

So you are telling me that psychiatrists teach that behaviors don't matter? Really?

 

[ding]

The Problem with Beliefs

We aren't discussing beliefs. We are discussing behaviors. Do you still believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes? Can you show me any scientific data or text books which teach this?

 

[ding]

The Problem with Beliefs

Do you have any papers by Behavioral Scientists which teach that behaviors don't matter?

"We describe a model for new and senior faculty members, integrating a behavioral approach to enhancing teaching skills with research from the field of positive psychology on virtues and character strengths..."

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...scroll=top&needAccess=true&journalCode=htop20

 

[Czernobog]

Sure.

I see. So a man who is dishonest, cheats, steals and is lazy will be just as likely to get into trouble with the law as a man who is honest and hard working?

Have you seen our police, and courts? And you need to ask that question?!?! Yeah. Yeah he is.

You have pretty strange beliefs for someone who is supposed to have a PhD in psychiatry.

Happiness and Virtue

Ya know what/ I don't have to defend my degree to a guy that knows how to look shit up online. Go spend 8 years studying psychiatry, and learn all of the different theories of decision making, behaviour, and counselling, then come talk to me. Who the hell do you think you are???

So you are telling me that psychiatrists teach that behaviors don't matter? Really?

No. I'm telling you that many psychiatrists, myself included, are more interested in how a behaviour makes a patient feel about themselves, than whether it is socially acceptable.

 

[ding]

The Problem with Beliefs

Or maybe you could show me a course that teaches behaviors don't matter. Do you have anything like that you could share?

Positive Psychology: The Science of Optimal Human Experience (Psychology 342): What does any person need, psychologically, in order to thrive? In this course we explore the latest research and theory regarding happiness, meaning, and satisfaction with life. We investigate “the good life,” exploring what psychology can tell us about human flourishing and psychological well-being. Empirical evidence is examined to understand some of the best aspects of life, such as the function of positive emotions, the role of traits in well-being, sources of meaning and life satisfaction, and character strength and virtue. Personality and sociocultural factors are emphasized in this exploration of the positive potentials of human life. This is an upper-level seminar for juniors and seniors and is primarily discussion-based. Prerequisites: Psych 230 (Research Methods) and Psych 244 (Personality) OR Psych 247 (Psychopathology).

Teaching | Donna McMillan

 

[BreezeWood]

Yes.

So a teenage girl who goes out partying every night and is sexually promiscuous and has unprotected sex will score as well on the SAT as a teenage girl who stays home studying?

Or a man who cheats on his wife will have as loving relationship with his wife as a man who is devoted and faithful to his wife?

Sure.

I see. So a man who is dishonest, cheats, steals and is lazy will be just as likely to get into trouble with the law as a man who is honest and hard working?

Have you seen our police, and courts? And you need to ask that question?!?! Yeah. Yeah he is.

I see it a little differently. Reason and experience tell us that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Reason and experience tell us that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and that failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. That's why they are called natural laws.

.

I see it a little differently. Reason and experience tell us that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Reason and experience tell us that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and that failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. That's why they are called natural laws.

.

there would have been no hope for whoever was the most successful person aboard the Titanic or for anyone else, by the actions of a single captain - who gave you the idea you are in full control of your own destiny ...

 

[ding]

I see. So a man who is dishonest, cheats, steals and is lazy will be just as likely to get into trouble with the law as a man who is honest and hard working?

Have you seen our police, and courts? And you need to ask that question?!?! Yeah. Yeah he is.

You have pretty strange beliefs for someone who is supposed to have a PhD in psychiatry.

Happiness and Virtue

Ya know what/ I don't have to defend my degree to a guy that knows how to look shit up online. Go spend 8 years studying psychiatry, and learn all of the different theories of decision making, behaviour, and counselling, then come talk to me. Who the hell do you think you are???

So you are telling me that psychiatrists teach that behaviors don't matter? Really?

No. I'm telling you that many psychiatrists, myself included, are more interested in how a behaviour makes a patient feel about themselves, than whether it is socially acceptable.

Great. Can you show me any scientific papers which show where you discourage people to be virtuous because those behaviors don't matter?

 

[ding]

I see. So a man who is dishonest, cheats, steals and is lazy will be just as likely to get into trouble with the law as a man who is honest and hard working?

Have you seen our police, and courts? And you need to ask that question?!?! Yeah. Yeah he is.

You have pretty strange beliefs for someone who is supposed to have a PhD in psychiatry.

Happiness and Virtue

Ya know what/ I don't have to defend my degree to a guy that knows how to look shit up online. Go spend 8 years studying psychiatry, and learn all of the different theories of decision making, behaviour, and counselling, then come talk to me. Who the hell do you think you are???

So you are telling me that psychiatrists teach that behaviors don't matter? Really?

No. I'm telling you that many psychiatrists, myself included, are more interested in how a behaviour makes a patient feel about themselves, than whether it is socially acceptable.

So as long as they feel good about themselves, it is ok to do anything?

 

[Czernobog]

Example.
Bob: I kissed another guy yesterday.

Me: How did that make you feel, Bob?

Bob: Bad.

Me: Why is that, Bob?

Bob: Because I know my dad is going to get angry.

Me: Well, Bob, does your dad get to make your decisions for you?

Bob: Well, no.

Me: Are you responsible for your dad's actions, and decisions?

Bob: No.

Me: So, your dad's anger isn't really important, then is it, Bob? So, how did it make you feel?

Bob: I like him...


See, there? I get beyond the "socially acceptable crap", and get to how a behaviour affects the patient.

 

[ding]

I see. So a man who is dishonest, cheats, steals and is lazy will be just as likely to get into trouble with the law as a man who is honest and hard working?

Have you seen our police, and courts? And you need to ask that question?!?! Yeah. Yeah he is.

You have pretty strange beliefs for someone who is supposed to have a PhD in psychiatry.

Happiness and Virtue

Ya know what/ I don't have to defend my degree to a guy that knows how to look shit up online. Go spend 8 years studying psychiatry, and learn all of the different theories of decision making, behaviour, and counselling, then come talk to me. Who the hell do you think you are???

So you are telling me that psychiatrists teach that behaviors don't matter? Really?

No. I'm telling you that many psychiatrists, myself included, are more interested in how a behaviour makes a patient feel about themselves, than whether it is socially acceptable.

You do realize that I am exposing you for a fraud, right?

 

[MaryL]

The Problem with Beliefs

We atheists get it. I want to believe in god, though. I must be the world's worst atheist. All those Muslims crashing planes into Manhattan put the kybosh on my beliefs. How could sane human being do such things? Because they presume to KNOW gods will? Says WHO?

 

[Czernobog]

Have you seen our police, and courts? And you need to ask that question?!?! Yeah. Yeah he is.

You have pretty strange beliefs for someone who is supposed to have a PhD in psychiatry.

Happiness and Virtue

Ya know what/ I don't have to defend my degree to a guy that knows how to look shit up online. Go spend 8 years studying psychiatry, and learn all of the different theories of decision making, behaviour, and counselling, then come talk to me. Who the hell do you think you are???

So you are telling me that psychiatrists teach that behaviors don't matter? Really?

No. I'm telling you that many psychiatrists, myself included, are more interested in how a behaviour makes a patient feel about themselves, than whether it is socially acceptable.

Great. Can you show me any scientific papers which show where you discourage people to be virtuous because those behaviors don't matter?

Nope. Cause I never said that I discourage people from being virtuous. Those are your words, not mine.

 

[ding]

Example.
Bob: I kissed another guy yesterday.

Me: How did that make you feel, Bob?

Bob: Bad.

Me: Why is that, Bob?

Bob: Because I know my dad is going to get angry.

Me: Well, Bob, does your dad get to make your decisions for you?

Bob: Well, no.

Me: Are you responsible for your dad's actions, and decisions?

Bob: No.

Me: So, your dad's anger isn't really important, then is it, Bob? So, how did it make you feel?

Bob: I like him...


See, there? I get beyond the "socially acceptable crap", and get to how a behaviour affects the patient.

Try substituting that with addiction to porn. I'd like to see that one, ok?