God Hates Cowards

[uscitizen]

Here's the deal, it ain't up to religious groups. Don't blame organized religion because the Country is going to hell in a handbasket, look at the people who caused it. The ACLU will make a small municipality wish they never tried to put that Christmas tree up when they are faced with high powered lawyers backed by the democrat party armed with a series of lawsuits that will bankrupt them. Why is the radical left so hysterical about the concept of Tea Party people working within the system to get the best people who will promote respect for the 1st Amendment and freedom of religion? It's the democrat left's constant assault on organized Christian religions.

but this is supposed to be a christian nation?
Look at the christians who caused it?

 

[kiwiman127]

That is no answer, it's a dodge.

Its a fact. Just look at current law.

Is taking care of the poor more important than being against gay marriage?

We can do both, very effectively.

Is being against any type of contraception more important than being against pollution? Get where I am coming from?

We're not against contraception, we're against the government paying for it with our tax dollars. The EPA and State Env agencies regulate pollution policies.

Now to common man, some issues are more important than others, but what does God think? Who among us, has the right to judge what political issues are more important to God? Really, does any mortal man have that right?
The answer is clearly NO!

You defeated your own argument. Left to its own devices government always becomes tyrannical. Its only the values fostered by long held religious beliefs that serve as the compass to keep government policies from becoming vicious over time. Remember when the FBI sent kill squads to Ruby Ridge and Waco? Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Does moral man have the right to question God. I still see no answer. You just go off on a rambling about government over-reaching, which has nothing to do with the very basics of the OP? For the last time answer the question. No more deflections.

 

[kyzr]

Serious students of history see the great peril in allowing churches to have too big a role in secular government. History is filled with horrific examples of religious terror and it always starts small and works up to things like the Taliban, I know that extreme example is Islam but a hell of a lot of people have been murdered in the name of Jesus Christ, a hell of a lot of now vanished governments have been brought to ruin by letting the preachers run things, forgive us if we don't take your word that it won't happen again this time.

So from my perspective, we're supposed to abandon the field to the atheists who claim "separation of church and state" when actually they are advocating for, and implementing atheistic policies. IMHO atheism is a religion, its the "null" set, but a religion just the same.

We as a country used to have the "In God We Trust" mindset. If you can't objectively see policies, such as forcing the church to pay for abortions, as violating their religious rights, then you must be blinded by partisanship.

I can say that your post is more toward the government implementing policies like China's "one child policy", by force, i.e. forced abortions.

What you should do is honor the spirit of the constitution and quit trying to make conservative Christianity the default religion of the American government. The only way to promote religious freedom in this country is to promote none of them and never allow narrow-minded religious dogma anywhere near the secular affairs of the government.

Its a democracy. Majority rules, or should rule. I'm not advocating for the churches to advocate for or against all secular policies, but certain policies directly affect certain beliefs, such as abortion being murder of a human life. The churches should be allowed to advocate for or against specific policies that affect their deeply held religious beliefs.

 

[kyzr]

Does moral man have the right to question God. I still see no answer. You just go off on a rambling about government over-reaching, which has nothing to do with the very basics of the OP? For the last time answer the question. No more deflections.

I'm going to type this for the last fucking time...

The entire point of the OP, (which I wrote) is that the churches are silent on certain policies, which they should be advocating for or against. IMHO the current law, that LBJ wrote in 1954, only stipulates that the churches cannot take political sides for specific "candidates". However, I believe that the churches can speak out against party policies that violate their deeply held beliefs, and still be within the law.

As for your question when I meet God I'll ask Him.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

They agreed to abide by certain rules in return for their tax free status. Now they want it both ways. If they want a say in secular business, they can pay secular taxes.

And, even if they don't want a say in politics, its way past time for them to pay taxes on their properties. They're not called hypocrites for nothing.

BTW, any one who believes the various religions have not preached politics in the past is very naive. For example, just look at what the Mormon cult is doing now that they think Mittens might be elected.

 

[occupied]

So from my perspective, we're supposed to abandon the field to the atheists who claim "separation of church and state" when actually they are advocating for, and implementing atheistic policies. IMHO atheism is a religion, its the "null" set, but a religion just the same.

We as a country used to have the "In God We Trust" mindset. If you can't objectively see policies, such as forcing the church to pay for abortions, as violating their religious rights, then you must be blinded by partisanship.

I can say that your post is more toward the government implementing policies like China's "one child policy", by force, i.e. forced abortions.

What you should do is honor the spirit of the constitution and quit trying to make conservative Christianity the default religion of the American government. The only way to promote religious freedom in this country is to promote none of them and never allow narrow-minded religious dogma anywhere near the secular affairs of the government.

Its a democracy. Majority rules, or should rule. I'm not advocating for the churches to advocate for or against all secular policies, but certain policies directly affect certain beliefs, such as abortion being murder of a human life. The churches should be allowed to advocate for or against specific policies that affect their deeply held religious beliefs.

They do that already to fairly successful results, to them at least, for gay people or unwed mothers, not so much. Where is their freedom from religious persecution when religion itself is doing the persecuting?

 

[occupied]

They agreed to abide by certain rules in return for their tax free status. Now they want it both ways. If they want a say in secular business, they can pay secular taxes.

And, even if they don't want a say in politics, its way past time for them to pay taxes on their properties. They're not called hypocrites for nothing.

BTW, any one who believes the various religions have not preached politics in the past is very naive. For example, just look at what the Mormon cult is doing now that they think Mittens might be elected.

They want separation to be a ramp rather than a wall, where they are untouchable by the government to the point that it has no power, not even by the constitution, to protect the rest of us from their narrow minded RW morality legislation.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Serious students of history see the great peril in allowing churches to have too big a role in secular government. History is filled with horrific examples of religious terror and it always starts small and works up to things like the Taliban, I know that extreme example is Islam but a hell of a lot of people have been murdered in the name of Jesus Christ, a hell of a lot of now vanished governments have been brought to ruin by letting the preachers run things, forgive us if we don't take your word that it won't happen again this time.

Actually, what you describe is exactly what the froot loop fundie "christians" want.

Sharia law.

We read it here every day.

 

[Erand7899]

What kind of answer is that? Does any mortal man have the right to weigh God's judgement as to what is the most important? Simply answer the question.

I answered it. The "mortal" atheists who bribe the DC whores currently buy the right to tell us what parts of our religions we can and cannot practice. What don't you understand? Its a simple answer.

That is no answer, it's a dodge.
Is taking care of the poor more important than being against gay marriage? Is being against any type of contraception more important than being against pollution? Get where I am coming from?
Now to common man, some issues are more important than others, but what does God think? Who among us, has the right to judge what political issues are more important to God? Really, does any mortal man have that right?
The answer is clearly NO!

You have a responsibility to answer for your religion, and your moral character, and not attempt to judge the validity of what others consider morally important. Gay marriage is not a moral cause, it is a political cause. The same applies to pollution.

There is no valid reason for churches not to be able to speak to political affairs, if the membership of that church believes it is the proper thing for the church to do. That is their business, not yours, not mine, and definitely not the government's business.

Churches are free of taxes because whatever government taxes, government can influence. Our constitution frowns on government influence in the church. It does not frown on the churches influence in government.

The current law allows government to threaten any church that speaks out against government policies or actions. That is a violation of the basic principles upon which this nation was founded.

 

[xsited1]

Charities should be tax exempt. However I think they should all have to prove they qualify as a charity, and imo being a chruch doesn't automatically make you a charity.

To the OP

Many religious leaders take stands on specific political planks.

Nuns on the Ferry : The New Yorker

Remeber them?

However what they don't do, and shouldn't do, is advocate one political party over the other.

Agreed, but we all know that will never happen. Go into just about any black Christian church in the South and they'll be stumping for Obama. This is especially true for local candidates.

 

[occupied]

I answered it. The "mortal" atheists who bribe the DC whores currently buy the right to tell us what parts of our religions we can and cannot practice. What don't you understand? Its a simple answer.

That is no answer, it's a dodge.
Is taking care of the poor more important than being against gay marriage? Is being against any type of contraception more important than being against pollution? Get where I am coming from?
Now to common man, some issues are more important than others, but what does God think? Who among us, has the right to judge what political issues are more important to God? Really, does any mortal man have that right?
The answer is clearly NO!

You have a responsibility to answer for your religion, and your moral character, and not attempt to judge the validity of what others consider morally important. Gay marriage is not a moral cause, it is a political cause. The same applies to pollution.

There is no valid reason for churches not to be able to speak to political affairs, if the membership of that church believes it is the proper thing for the church to do. That is their business, not yours, not mine, and definitely not the government's business.

Churches are free of taxes because whatever government taxes, government can influence. Our constitution frowns on government influence in the church. It does not frown on the churches influence in government.

The current law allows government to threaten any church that speaks out against government policies or actions. That is a violation of the basic principles upon which this nation was founded.

A good illustration of my earlier point, they want to be untouchable by the government to the point that it is powerless to protect the rest of us pagans from their particular form of religious persecution. They would ban mosques, make every day for our kids conservative Sunday school and impose a host of harsh draconian morality laws on everything from modes of dress to speech to procreation and we would have no recourse because to them religious freedom means that they can use the constitution as a weapon but we would not be able to use that same Constitution as a shield.

 

[AmyNation]

Charities should be tax exempt. However I think they should all have to prove they qualify as a charity, and imo being a chruch doesn't automatically make you a charity.

To the OP

Many religious leaders take stands on specific political planks.

Nuns on the Ferry : The New Yorker

Remeber them?

However what they don't do, and shouldn't do, is advocate one political party over the other.

Agreed, but we all know that will never happen. Go into just about any black Christian church in the South and they'll be stumping for Obama. This is especially true for local candidates.

True.

I posted a thread not too long ago about a church that was in trouble for advocating for Romney in their weekly letter. I saw interviews with some of the parishioners and they all said basically the same thing, "Id like to keep my religion and my politics separate".

 

[Lakhota]

Religious nuts keep looking for loopholes to circumvent separation of church and state. I say make them pay taxes and then they can play politics all they want. They should be paying taxes anyway.

 

[kiwiman127]

I answered it. The "mortal" atheists who bribe the DC whores currently buy the right to tell us what parts of our religions we can and cannot practice. What don't you understand? Its a simple answer.

That is no answer, it's a dodge.
Is taking care of the poor more important than being against gay marriage? Is being against any type of contraception more important than being against pollution? Get where I am coming from?
Now to common man, some issues are more important than others, but what does God think? Who among us, has the right to judge what political issues are more important to God? Really, does any mortal man have that right?
The answer is clearly NO!

You have a responsibility to answer for your religion, and your moral character, and not attempt to judge the validity of what others consider morally important. Gay marriage is not a moral cause, it is a political cause. The same applies to pollution.

There is no valid reason for churches not to be able to speak to political affairs, if the membership of that church believes it is the proper thing for the church to do. That is their business, not yours, not mine, and definitely not the government's business.

Churches are free of taxes because whatever government taxes, government can influence. Our constitution frowns on government influence in the church. It does not frown on the churches influence in government.

The current law allows government to threaten any church that speaks out against government policies or actions. That is a violation of the basic principles upon which this nation was founded.

Churches and the politicians who use churches make issues of gay marriages, helping the poor, contraception, pollution;etc, make these issues political issues. Yet the Bible addresses these issues and is very clear where God stands on these issues. Therefore, having a church say that a specific political party represents their views would be judging God. It's like a church takes a position on a big wedge issue such as gay marriage and decides because a specific political party represents their view on the issue. But say the said political party stands on opposite ground to the Bible on regarding pollution/strip mining, etc! Well then, the church is judging God's will. No church can be just for part of God's will, they must be 100% behind all of God's will.
We all know that each political party stands behind specific issues that the Bible shows God either is pro or con on the issue. No party owns the bases that 100% supports the will of God. Therefore no church can endorse one specific party.

 

[occupied]

That is no answer, it's a dodge.
Is taking care of the poor more important than being against gay marriage? Is being against any type of contraception more important than being against pollution? Get where I am coming from?
Now to common man, some issues are more important than others, but what does God think? Who among us, has the right to judge what political issues are more important to God? Really, does any mortal man have that right?
The answer is clearly NO!

You have a responsibility to answer for your religion, and your moral character, and not attempt to judge the validity of what others consider morally important. Gay marriage is not a moral cause, it is a political cause. The same applies to pollution.

There is no valid reason for churches not to be able to speak to political affairs, if the membership of that church believes it is the proper thing for the church to do. That is their business, not yours, not mine, and definitely not the government's business.

Churches are free of taxes because whatever government taxes, government can influence. Our constitution frowns on government influence in the church. It does not frown on the churches influence in government.

The current law allows government to threaten any church that speaks out against government policies or actions. That is a violation of the basic principles upon which this nation was founded.

Churches and the politicians who use churches make issues of gay marriages, helping the poor, contraception, pollution;etc, make these issues political issues. Yet the Bible addresses these issues and is very clear where God stands on these issues. Therefore, having a church say that a specific political party represents their views would be judging God. It's like a church takes a position on a big wedge issue such as gay marriage and decides because a specific political party represents their view on the issue. But say the said political party stands on opposite ground to the Bible on regarding pollution/strip mining, etc! Well then, the church is judging God's will. No church can be just for part of God's will, they must be 100% behind all of God's will.

God's will is usually interpreted by religious leaders and accepted by the followers, some would just love to have a voting populace as unquestioning as a congregation. In spite of all their hoopla about free will they are remarkably harsh towards those who exercise it and choose wrong.

 

[Billo_Really]

Actually, my bitch is that the churches preach theology and take our contributions, but when it really matters as to which policies the government enacts, the whiny preachers hide in their basements. There is no confusion, only cowardice.

You gotta be shitin' me? You're blaming preachers because you're too much of a coward to think for yourself? You need someone else to make the decisions for you? God gave you free will. Use it!

Separation of church and state. You combine those two, you gotta fucked up country.

Besides, modern day Christianity lost Jesus a long time ago. Big religion is no different than big government and big business. They take from you and give nothing back.

 

[Erand7899]

That is no answer, it's a dodge.
Is taking care of the poor more important than being against gay marriage? Is being against any type of contraception more important than being against pollution? Get where I am coming from?
Now to common man, some issues are more important than others, but what does God think? Who among us, has the right to judge what political issues are more important to God? Really, does any mortal man have that right?
The answer is clearly NO!

You have a responsibility to answer for your religion, and your moral character, and not attempt to judge the validity of what others consider morally important. Gay marriage is not a moral cause, it is a political cause. The same applies to pollution.

There is no valid reason for churches not to be able to speak to political affairs, if the membership of that church believes it is the proper thing for the church to do. That is their business, not yours, not mine, and definitely not the government's business.

Churches are free of taxes because whatever government taxes, government can influence. Our constitution frowns on government influence in the church. It does not frown on the churches influence in government.

The current law allows government to threaten any church that speaks out against government policies or actions. That is a violation of the basic principles upon which this nation was founded.

A good illustration of my earlier point, they want to be untouchable by the government to the point that it is powerless to protect the rest of us pagans from their particular form of religious persecution. They would ban mosques, make every day for our kids conservative Sunday school and impose a host of harsh draconian morality laws on everything from modes of dress to speech to procreation and we would have no recourse because to them religious freedom means that they can use the constitution as a weapon but we would not be able to use that same Constitution as a shield.

What utter nonsense!

 

[lareinedumonde]

huh. when I used to go to mass, the priests openly advocated certain legislation and candidates all the time.

 

[occupied]

You have a responsibility to answer for your religion, and your moral character, and not attempt to judge the validity of what others consider morally important. Gay marriage is not a moral cause, it is a political cause. The same applies to pollution.

There is no valid reason for churches not to be able to speak to political affairs, if the membership of that church believes it is the proper thing for the church to do. That is their business, not yours, not mine, and definitely not the government's business.

Churches are free of taxes because whatever government taxes, government can influence. Our constitution frowns on government influence in the church. It does not frown on the churches influence in government.

The current law allows government to threaten any church that speaks out against government policies or actions. That is a violation of the basic principles upon which this nation was founded.

A good illustration of my earlier point, they want to be untouchable by the government to the point that it is powerless to protect the rest of us pagans from their particular form of religious persecution. They would ban mosques, make every day for our kids conservative Sunday school and impose a host of harsh draconian morality laws on everything from modes of dress to speech to procreation and we would have no recourse because to them religious freedom means that they can use the constitution as a weapon but we would not be able to use that same Constitution as a shield.

What utter nonsense!

I take it you are unfamiliar with the platform and practices of the southern baptist convention?

 

[Billo_Really]

huh. when I used to go to mass, the priests openly advocated certain legislation and candidates all the time.

They also do marriage counseling. Right. I'm gonna take advice on relationships, from someone who's never had a date?