Georgia Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

[Sky Dancer]

They can pray together silently--otherwise they have to let every single faith group say their own prayers.

Might be interesting. Native American grace. Muslim grace. Hindu grace. Buddhist grace. Jewish grace. Quaker grace, etc etc etc.
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Too bad Christians don't want to share.

Hey! Don't forget the atheists!! We get to have our anti grace grace too!

In most cases, a simple prayer is non-denominational and covers all religions of those who believe in one God.

Exactly. This presumes belief in one god. It honors only theistic prayer. Not all religions are theistic and some are pantheistic or animist.

 

[boedicca]

Telling people they can't eat unless they pray loudly to YOUR god in YOUR way is fair and right to all.

I call shenanigans.

Nobody told any of the seniors they had to say a Christian Grace as a condition of eating the meal.

Where did the grace come from?

Some individuals chose to say grace before their meals. Why are you so unhinged about individuals exercising their freedom of religious expression?

 

[boedicca]

It means both. The government cannot interfere in religious practice and the governement cannot endorse specific religious practice.

The phrase as spoken from Jefferson doesnt mean both, it just means the govt cannot stop religious activity in any capacity...

However what most people are surprised to learn is that this phrase is not even uttered anywhere in the Constitution.

According to the constitution, the govt cannot set up a state religion.. Seniors praying before a meal is not setting up a state religion.

Yes, it is if the government sponsored the mea and staff serving the community lead the prayer in an organized way.

That's not what happened in this case.

 

[Againsheila]

I call shenanigans.

Nobody told any of the seniors they had to say a Christian Grace as a condition of eating the meal.

Where did the grace come from?

Some individuals chose to say grace before their meals. Why are you so unhinged about individuals exercising their freedom of religious expression?

Great question.....

 

[boedicca]

I guess you didn't read your own article.

Why is it some people can't pray unless they do it out loud with other people? Even when some of those other people are offended by the sometimes obvious attempt to make those who don't participate feel like outcasts?

Isn't prayer supposed to be between God and the individual? Isn't using it as a tool to control people an offense to God?

Completely irrelevent. We live in the United States of America. If people want to have a group prayer outloud, who are you tell them they can't?

Good manners are always relevant.

The First Amendment doesn't include a Miss Manners clause.

 

[rikules]

They can pray. It's just not an organized prayer.

Or they could always refuse funding.

unfortunately the more zealot conservatives believe that if they are not allowed to FORCE THEIR PRAYERS on everyone in the room then THEY are being persecuted and their rights are being denied.

and I'd like to know why personally responsible conservative christians are taking MY TAX DOLLARS to stuff their faces....

shouldn't they just be asking jesus for more bread and wine?

 

[boedicca]

Exercising one's freedom of speech is not forcing one's prayers on anyone.

 

[Againsheila]

They can pray. It's just not an organized prayer.

Or they could always refuse funding.

unfortunately the more zealot conservatives believe that if they are not allowed to FORCE THEIR PRAYERS on everyone in the room then THEY are being persecuted and their rights are being denied.

and I'd like to know why personally responsible conservative christians are taking MY TAX DOLLARS to stuff their faces....

shouldn't they just be asking jesus for more bread and wine?

So if all our investments are gone and our retirement fund dried up, I shall be sure to kill myself rather than accept government handouts paid for by your taxes because you would rather I die than say a prayer before I eat.

Talk about intolerance.

 

[Againsheila]

Exercising one's freedom of speech is not forcing one's prayers on anyone.

I just don't understand why they don't "get" that!

 

[boedicca]

As many of us have noted, if the government can void a senior's citizen's First Amendment Rights for accepting a $5.45 meal subsidy, then almost anyone's rights may be voided upon some pretext or another.

 

[boedicca]

Exercising one's freedom of speech is not forcing one's prayers on anyone.

I just don't understand why they don't "get" that!

The Anti-Christian bigotry is throttling their logic function.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Exercising one's freedom of speech is not forcing one's prayers on anyone.

I just don't understand why they don't "get" that!

They who?

 

[boedicca]

You and your comrades who think that the government can void our First Amendment rights by giving us back some of the money they took away from us in the first place.

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

As many of us have noted, if the government can void a senior's citizen's First Amendment Rights for accepting a $5.45 meal subsidy, then almost anyone's rights may be voided upon some pretext or another.

I look at it as a restriction on the government, as per the Establishment Clause, that forbids the government from funding the exercise of religion. If the government wants to provide meal subsidies it should provide those meal subsidies in an environment free of any organized religious rituals. That in no way inhibits an individuals First Amendment Right to their free exercise of religion as they can still pray or do whatever they choose to do.

 

[boedicca]

There is no evidence that this was an organized prayer ritual in which the center required senior citizens to participate as a condition of receiving a meal.

Some of the seniors said grace, which is their right under the 1st Amendment. They do not give up that right because the government subsidized $5.45 for each meal.

Nor does such funding of a meal Establish A State Religion.

 

[Againsheila]

Exercising one's freedom of speech is not forcing one's prayers on anyone.

I just don't understand why they don't "get" that!

They who?

They, you.

 

[Againsheila]

As many of us have noted, if the government can void a senior's citizen's First Amendment Rights for accepting a $5.45 meal subsidy, then almost anyone's rights may be voided upon some pretext or another.

I look at it as a restriction on the government, as per the Establishment Clause, that forbids the government from funding the exercise of religion. If the government wants to provide meal subsidies it should provide those meal subsidies in an environment free of any organized religious rituals. That in no way inhibits an individuals First Amendment Right to their free exercise of religion as they can still pray or do whatever they choose to do.

Define "organized". If I'm sitting at a table with 9 of my friends, are we aloud to say grace outloud? If not, then you are violating our right to free speech and the free exercise of our religion. The government provided the food. Not the place to eat it, nor were they praying during the meal, but BEFORE the meal.

It's called grace and they even say it in Japan, though there it isn't a religious thing. It's being thankful for your meal, regardless of where it came from and voicing that thanks.

 

[Anguille]

Completely irrelevent. We live in the United States of America. If people want to have a group prayer outloud, who are you tell them they can't?

Good manners are always relevant.

The First Amendment doesn't include a Miss Manners clause.

Well, at least you acknowledge that it is bad manners to disrupt a meal with group prayer in mixed company.

 

[Anguille]

so if all our investments are gone and our retirement fund dried up, i shall be sure to kill myself rather than accept government handouts paid for by your taxes because you would rather i die than say a prayer before i eat.

Talk about intolerance.

drama queen alert!

 

[Sky Dancer]

I just don't understand why they don't "get" that!

They who?

They, you.

Not me. You must have me confused with someone. I understand your point of view perfectly.

This issue is moot. The Georgia seniors get to pray. End of story.