George Bush is a liar & will lose

[wonderwench]

Originally posted by boss
you claimed it was never said the iraq threat was imminent...i've proven you wrong...full stop

someone said i confused hope with facts...i certainly hope that you're right that "the world is a safer place for it", but sadly i think the facts won't bear that hope out

You are spinning. The Bush Administration was unified in saying that Saddam posed a real threat. If you want to harp on the distinction between real, grave and imminent - go ahead. It's splitting hairs and shows how desperate the Anti-Bushies are to twist a victory into a loss.

David Kay testified before Congress that the threat posed by Saddam was even more serious than the Administration originally believed. Of course, that gets scant mention in the liberal media.

 

[boss]

no spinning, or interest in reproving this point to you again...i make no distinction between any of those words...you said they didn't use them, I provided quotes showing they did...i didn't say there was no threat, just that we'd been lied to...nor did i say anything about victory or loss...it was a victory...delivered by the Clinton military

 

[wonderwench]

Originally posted by boss
no spinning, or interest in reproving this point to you again...i make no distinction between any of those words...you said they didn't use them, I provided quotes showing they did...i didn't say there was no threat, just that we'd been lied to...nor did i say anything about victory or loss...it was a victory...delivered by the Clinton military

Whatever. It is sad to see someone argue so vociferously about choices of words being evil - while turning a blind eye to mass graves containing hundreds of thousands of victims.

A little moral perspective wouldn't be amiss.

 

[boss]

thought you'd like that...btw, let's be crystal clear i'm neither a moron nor your friend

 

[boss]

where did I day anything about evil?

where was the previous bush administration (which I voted for btw) with moral perspective when those mass graves were being filled with Kurd & Shia corpses?

That folks was an imminent threat ignored by the george the 41st

 

[wonderwench]

Quit disassembling.

Dubya is the 43rd president, not the 41st.

Let's stick with his record.

 

[Zhukov]

"It was reasonable to conclude that Iraq posed an imminent threat. What we learned during the inspection made Iraq a more dangerous place potentially than, in fact, we thought it was even before the war."

Dr. Kay

 

[jon_forward]

Originally posted by boss
where did I day anything about evil?

where was the previous bush administration (which I voted for btw) with moral perspective when those mass graves were being filled with Kurd & Shia corpses?

That folks was an imminent threat ignored by the george the 41st

who was stopped by the coalition because the goals set had been met, Iraq out of Kuwiat.

 

[boss]

yeah and his father, who i was talking about, was the 41st

i've enjoyed wallowing in your ignorance...gotta go watch Matalin & Dennis Miller stroke each other

y'all enjoy your last 8 months in the white house

 

[Zhukov]

"It is crucial that the important work of the ISG group go on. Thus far the findings have been significant.

Dr. Kay has stated that, although we have not found evidence of large stockpiles of WMD, or forward-deployed weapons, the ISG group have made the following evidence as a part of their record that will be forthcoming: first, evidence of Saddam Hussein's intent to pursue WMD programs on a large scale; actual ongoing chemical and biological research programs; an active program to use the deadly chemical ricin as a weapon, a program that was interrupted only by the start of the war in March; and evidence of missile programs; and evidence that in all probability they were going to build those weapons to incorporate in the warheads, what we know not for sure, but certainly the possibility of weapons of mass destruction; evidence that Saddam Hussein was attempting to reconstitute his fledgling nuclear program as late as 2001; and, most important, evidence that clearly indicates Saddam Hussein was conducting a wide range of activities in clear contravention of the United Nations resolutions."

Senator Warner

Armed Services Committee

 

[Zhukov]

"We have to remember that this view of Iraq (prewar assessment of WMD capabilities) was held during the Clinton administration and did not change in the Bush administration. It is not a political got-you issue. Often estimates are different than reality. The important thing is when they differ to understand why."

Dr. Kay

 

[boss]

SE...you bet...that Mary Matalin is HOT!

 

[Zhukov]

"It turns out that we were all wrong, probably in my judgment, and that is most disturbing.

We're also in a period in which we've had intelligence surprises in the proliferation area that go the other way. The case of Iran, a nuclear program that the Iranians admit was 18 years on, that we underestimated. And, in fact, we didn't discover it. It was discovered by a group of Iranian dissidents outside the country who pointed the international community at the location.

The Libyan program recently discovered was far more extensive than was assessed prior to that.

There's a long record here of being wrong. There's a good reason for it. There are probably multiple reasons. Certainly proliferation is a hard thing to track, particularly in countries that deny easy and free access and don't have free and open societies."

Dr. Kay

Hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee

 

[wonderwench]

Z - no fair confusing Boss with the facts.

 

[Zhukov]

"As leader of the effort of the Iraqi Survey Group, I spent most of my days not out in the field leading inspections. It's typically what you do at that level. I was trying to motivate, direct, find strategies.

In the course of doing that, I had innumerable analysts who came to me in apology that the world that we were finding was not the world that they had thought existed and that they had estimated. Reality on the ground differed in advance. And never -- not in a single case -- was the explanation, "I was pressured to do this." The explanation was, very often, "The limited data we had led one to reasonably conclude this. I now see that there's another explanation for it."

And each case was different, but the conversations were sufficiently in depth and our relationship was sufficiently frank that I'm convinced that, at least to the analysts I dealt with, I did not come across a single one that felt it had been, in the military term, "inappropriate command influence" that led them to take that position.

It was not that. It was the honest difficulty based on the intelligence that had -- the information that had been collected that led the analysts to that conclusion."

Dr. Kay






Here just read the whole thing and come back when you're done.

http://radio.weblogs.com/0106101/st...stimonyToTheSenateArmedServicesCommittee.html

 

[jon_forward]

the boss is off licking his wounds...rantin/raving lunitic.....he would fit right in here in tenn. mindless sheep to be herded as the master sees fit.

 

[boss]

i'm only confused by the irrelevence of dr kay quotes...i couldn't agree more that the intelligence is a mess, but that wasn't the topic...but that just shows that Iran, Libya, Pakistan were more immediate threats

 

[wonderwench]

The quotes are only irrelvant to people who do not want to accept reality.

 

[jon_forward]

Libya is on the road to rejoining Humanity. Iran is in the scope, Pakistan is doing their damnest to please Washington..which leaves Iraq,[saddam] no longer a threat to the world, or her own people. a lesson has been taught to the world of terrorist countrys and those that support them. Change your ways or we will change them for you. No song and Dance routine, just facts. If you want to play hardball, dont cry when we steam-roll you

 

[boss]

you've got to score a hit before i've got any wounds to lick