Ft. Hood: A Gun-Free Zone

[Terry]

I was being a realist, there is no way our Gov. will allow all service men armed 24/7 on a conus base. I heard a suggestion once that every squadron should have their own armory but what good will that do if someone barges in with a gun. If two people were armed with a side arm and another weapon at arms reach then that would be enough to stop that lone one or two terrorist with hand guns. If that was the case this Terrorist would have gotten off one shot then he would be dead.

If we arm every Military person I can see it now. A GI is suicidal and goes nuts with his arm that was issued to him. Can you see all the Progressive nuts then?

I'm just trying hard to find a realistic approach to help our force protection people out. All the MP/SP/SF's do have weapons.

My emotional response to all this is KICK THEM ALL OUT OF THE MILITARY and send a message that our GI's will fire before asking.

 

[Contumacious]

I was being a realist, there is no way our Gov. will allow all service men armed 24/7 on a conus base. .

That is correct.

The GI's are ONLY supposed to bear arms when defending the ALMIGHTY state, the zionuts, neocrazies and war profiteers.

Otherwise no one gives a shit about their lives.

next subject please.
.

 

[eots]

I was being a realist, there is no way our Gov. will allow all service men armed 24/7 on a conus base. .

That is correct.

The GI's are ONLY supposed to bear arms when defending the ALMIGHTY state, the zionuts, neocrazies and war profiteers.

Otherwise no one gives a shit about their lives.

next subject please.
.

the military has some great people and especially amongst those that choose it as a career
but lets be honest it also has its fair share of mental cases ..substance abusers ..rapist and assorted criminals we don't want them packing heat 24/7

 

[garyd]

Actually statisically in smaller quantities than the country at large, EOTS.

 

[Terry]

I disdained the Political Correct BS and agree it has to stop. I don't think I'll see that happen in my life time though. I wish, I pray it would.

Eot's the way you stated that sounded like we have a lot of criminals in our Military. We do not! A few get through the door but if you look at the percentage it is low.

I don't think there is an easy answer to this that is why I suggested in each building on every post in the military should be well armed.

 

[garyd]

By the way the security people were armed. there just aren't nearly enough of them to be every where at every time.

 

[eots]

Actually statisically in smaller quantities than the country at large, EOTS.

maybe that's because they are being watched and on a short leash...lol

 

[eots]

I disdained the Political Correct BS and agree it has to stop. I don't think I'll see that happen in my life time though. I wish, I pray it would.

Eot's the way you stated that sounded like we have a lot of criminals in our Military. We do not! A few get through the door but if you look at the percentage it is low.

I don't think there is an easy answer to this that is why I suggested in each building on every post in the military should be well armed.

sure what the hell you got my vote..we would know soon enough if it works or not

 

[Cyborgmudhen]

Either of you guys ever live on a large military base, especially the within the past six years ?
PLENTY of criminals.
Don't know why you are so fixated on criminals, though. What happened Thursday was a terrorist attack.
But make no mistake, especially during this time of multiple deployments, shattered relationships, and ruined lives. PLENTY of crime on post.
Just thought you should know.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Right.

But you'd think that you'd have some MPs or LEs or whathaveya within striking distance, rather than having the civie cops come in to put that nut down.

They were civilian security FOR the base.

 

[JenyEliza]

I've heard this topic being discussed a few times. One side thinks all active duty personal should be carrying a side arm while on duty, others think the opposite.

I'm in the middle, yes I think at least all Military should have to qualify with a weapon. Some career fields in the AF haven't fired a weapon since Basic Training.

As of now I think the reason why they all are not carrying weapons is for a few reasons. Most installations are a small town within a town. Schools, stores and such. I know all installations has a force protection plan based on many different scenarios. When someone is bent on committing harry carry there isn't must you can do. Most of our force protection plans are geared to an attack where a truck with explosives would ram past the gates. I suppose you can bet your sweet butt that all force protection specialist are redesigning their plans to include what happened at Ft. Hood.

I just don't see how a Military Gate personal could have foreseen this guy doing that. There should I think at least be in each building two individuals armed at all times. This probably could have saved many lives. Perhaps that plan will be adopted.

At least THOSE charged WITH security of the base shoulda been armed? But here we are at a quandry? *WE* are at war? Correct?

(Yeah I understand that certain politicals think we are NOT, but we have folks overseas taking HEAT...in COMBAT meaning we are AT WAR)...

Therefore as any war we have ever been in WWII being a striking example? Arm 'em period until our folks are home and the situation is resolved over there...

Why should our posture change just because the guns aren't blazing in the CONUS? Seems to me we had a glaring example last week. The Jhihadists will stoop at any weakness.

The Jury is still out as to whether this guy acted ALONE, or at the behest of others...but the fact is the mindset exists. This guy proved it regardless of circumstance...many died as a result.

ARM 'Em. Period.

That will not change from herin. Seems this was a wakeup call. Sad but true. These islamists are entrenched everywhere.

MY .02 and you DO cite a good opinion, T...But I take it from a different mindest.

The PC shit has to STOP. We are at WAR the last time I checked..(<--NOT Directed at YOU, T)...

The mindset was FIRMLY entrenched with Maj. Hassan. Have a look at this slide deck he did.

Some background on the deck first.

As a senior-year psychiatric resident at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Maj. Nidal M. Hasan was supposed to make a presentation on a medical topic of his choosing as a culminating exercise of the residency program.

Instead, in late June 2007, he stood before his supervisors and about 25 other mental health staff members and lectured on Islam, suicide bombers and threats the military could encounter from Muslims conflicted about fighting in the Muslim countries of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a copy of the presentation obtained by The Washington Post.

Hasan's presentation lasted about an hour. It is unclear whether he read out loud every point on each slide. If typical procedures were followed, his adviser would have supervised the development of his project, said people familiar with the practice

Here's the slide deck: Hasan on Islam - washingtonpost.com

Note the following slides:

Under a slide titled "Comments," he wrote:

"If Muslim groups can convince Muslims that they are fighting for God against injustices of the 'infidels'; ie: enemies of Islam, then Muslims can become a potent adversary ie: suicide bombing, etc." [sic]

The last bullet point on that page reads simply: "We love death more then [sic] you love life!"

Under the "Conclusions" page, Hasan wrote that

"Fighting to establish an Islamic State to please God, even by force, is condoned by the Islam," and that "Muslim Soldiers should not serve in any capacity that renders them at risk to hurting/killing believers unjustly -- will vary!"

The final page, labeled "Recommendation," contained only one suggestion:

"Department of Defense should allow Muslims [sic] Soldiers the option of being released as 'Conscientious objectors' to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events."

 

[asaratis]

You would think that people in the military would have an abundance of Privately owned weapons, and you would be right. However you have to keep your weapons in an authorized arms room and have to sign them out only when you are going to a range or hunting. I don't believe there is any concealed carry authorized on any military base.

But I do believe in Gun Control

Always use two hands.

Always use two guns.

Wait a fucking minute?

They made a military location "gun free"? Are people really this stupid?

Yes. Bleeding heart, liberal, appeasing pussies are in control.

You would think that people in the military would have an abundance of Privately owned weapons, and you would be right. However you have to keep your weapons in an authorized arms room and have to sign them out only when you are going to a range or hunting. I don't believe there is any concealed carry authorized on any military base.

But I do believe in Gun Control

Always use two hands.

I have it on expert opinion the reason for this is that the soldiers might consider having a gun the advantage they need in hand to hand to take on their platoon leader and kill him

Shut the fuck up, you sarcastic twit.

I'm not buying the PC bullshit the army is selling here. In NJ there was a Ft. Dix plot by 6 terrorists who would have been heavily armed with assault rifles and grenades. Suppose 20 would have attacked Ft. Hood instead of one guy with pistols (which are not very accurate to begin with).

U.S. Thwarts 19 Terrorist Attacks Against America Since 9/11

The army does not get the threat, and still clings to PC and "diversity". This stupidity is costing lives and new recruits.

oh shut up ...worm

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bDY0DfEjmo&feature=fvw]YouTube - Pink Floyd - Waiting for the Worms[/ame]

Your inadequacy is being exposed with every post you fake.

I have it on expert opinion the reason for this is that the soldiers might consider having a gun the advantage they need in hand to hand to take on their platoon leader and kill him

And your "expert opinion" tops that of a retired E-7 in what way?

its an experts opinion not mine...

No. It's your misinterpretation of what he said.

AKA hearsay.

AKA sfc ollie

You should quote what he said, not what you wish he'd said.

I was being a realist, there is no way our Gov. will allow all service men armed 24/7 on a conus base. .

That is correct.

The GI's are ONLY supposed to bear arms when defending the ALMIGHTY state, the zionuts, neocrazies and war profiteers.

Otherwise no one gives a shit about their lives.

next subject please.
.

the military has some great people and especially amongst those that choose it as a career
but lets be honest it also has its fair share of mental cases ..substance abusers ..rapist and assorted criminals we don't want them packing heat 24/7

There's a bell shaped curved in every large group. The heroes will rise up to stop the bad guys...every fuckin' time...weapons or no. It just costs us more when the heroes are unarmed to start.

 

[Contumacious]

I was being a realist, there is no way our Gov. will allow all service men armed 24/7 on a conus base. .

That is correct.

The GI's are ONLY supposed to bear arms when defending the ALMIGHTY state, the zionuts, neocrazies and war profiteers.

Otherwise no one gives a shit about their lives.

next subject please.
.

the military has some great people and especially amongst those that choose it as a career
but lets be honest it also has its fair share of mental cases ..substance abusers ..rapist and assorted criminals we don't want them packing heat 24/7

Hummmmmmmmmm


But you have no problem sending those folks to Iraq and Afpak,

.

 

[Care4all]

I've heard this topic being discussed a few times. One side thinks all active duty personal should be carrying a side arm while on duty, others think the opposite.

I'm in the middle, yes I think at least all Military should have to qualify with a weapon. Some career fields in the AF haven't fired a weapon since Basic Training.

As of now I think the reason why they all are not carrying weapons is for a few reasons. Most installations are a small town within a town. Schools, stores and such. I know all installations has a force protection plan based on many different scenarios. When someone is bent on committing harry carry there isn't must you can do. Most of our force protection plans are geared to an attack where a truck with explosives would ram past the gates. I suppose you can bet your sweet butt that all force protection specialist are redesigning their plans to include what happened at Ft. Hood.

I just don't see how a Military Gate personal could have foreseen this guy doing that. There should I think at least be in each building two individuals armed at all times. This probably could have saved many lives. Perhaps that plan will be adopted.

I grew up on military installations, schools, church..... AF as well and there was no need for people to be armed....it took privilege to enter the facility or base, only those with ID's were permited on base without scrutiny with a pass for an official reason.

Why would anyone in the military think that a fellow soldier would declare war against them?

We did have MP's that were armed, and as you said, there were obvious plans for security or an attack....?

i dunno, I am torn like you....maybe it needs something in between....not the wild wild west with guns on everyone on base, but perhaps some special people that could have open carry clearance?

 

[Missourian]

i dunno, I am torn like you....maybe it needs something in between....not the wild wild west with guns on everyone on base, but perhaps some special people that could have open carry clearance?

Sure, when we send them to a foreign war zone, we arm them to the teeth, give them grenades, claymores, 50 caliber machine guns and mortars...but not here...HERE they can't be trusted with loaded side arms because it will be the "the wild west".

It's a shame we can't carbon freeze them ala Han Solo and just thaw them out when we need them..."It case of war...defrost."...that would be safer, keep the Libs happy and like C3PO said, they'll be well protected in there.

 

[Care4all]

i dunno, I am torn like you....maybe it needs something in between....not the wild wild west with guns on everyone on base, but perhaps some special people that could have open carry clearance?

Sure, when we send them to a foreign war zone, we arm them to the teeth, give them grenades, claymores, 50 caliber machine guns and mortars...but not here...HERE they can't be trusted with loaded side arms because it will be the "the wild west".

It's a shame we can't carbon freeze them ala Han Solo and just thaw them out when we need them..."It case of war...defrost."...that would be safer, keep the Libs happy and like C3PO said, they'll be well protected in there.

you are being silly. it has nothing to do with trust?

We are NOT IN A WAR ZONE here in the USA and on our bases.....?

 

[xsited1]

So......It's an Army post, yet none of these highly trained military personnel can carry?

...

I don't think you understand the power of gun-free zones. Just look at what criminals do when confronted with a gun-free zone sign:

 

[Missourian]

i dunno, I am torn like you....maybe it needs something in between....not the wild wild west with guns on everyone on base, but perhaps some special people that could have open carry clearance?

Sure, when we send them to a foreign war zone, we arm them to the teeth, give them grenades, claymores, 50 caliber machine guns and mortars...but not here...HERE they can't be trusted with loaded side arms because it will be the "the wild west".

It's a shame we can't carbon freeze them ala Han Solo and just thaw them out when we need them..."It case of war...defrost."...that would be safer, keep the Libs happy and like C3PO said, they'll be well protected in there.

you are being silly. it has nothing to do with trust?

We are NOT IN A WAR ZONE here in the USA and on our bases.....?

So what?

If it's not a trust issue what does your "wild west" comment have to do with exactly?

Americans can carry a concealed weapon off military bases and it hasn't turned into the wild west as the Libs cried and clamored it would.

In fact, violent crime is at a 35 year low, murder rates are at a 43 year low and firearm murders of police officers are at a 50 year low.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...ens-less-violent-crime-and-murders-again.html

​

35 years ago I was 2 years old, so these stats proclaim the safest America in my lifetime.


Military personnel should have the same right-to-carry as American civilians...only more so.

 

[Paulie]

Right.

But you'd think that you'd have some MPs or LEs or whathaveya within striking distance, rather than having the civie cops come in to put that nut down.

They were civilian security FOR the base.

I've never heard of civilian security on a military installation, stateside at least anyway.

All the AF bases I was at had plenty of SP's (MP's) to handle the load.

Maybe other branches are different.

 

[Care4all]

Sure, when we send them to a foreign war zone, we arm them to the teeth, give them grenades, claymores, 50 caliber machine guns and mortars...but not here...HERE they can't be trusted with loaded side arms because it will be the "the wild west".

It's a shame we can't carbon freeze them ala Han Solo and just thaw them out when we need them..."It case of war...defrost."...that would be safer, keep the Libs happy and like C3PO said, they'll be well protected in there.

you are being silly. it has nothing to do with trust?

We are NOT IN A WAR ZONE here in the USA and on our bases.....?

So what?

If it's not a trust issue what does your "wild west" comment have to do with exactly?

Americans can carry a concealed weapon off military bases and it hasn't turned into the wild west as the Libs cried and clamored it would.

In fact, violent crime is at a 35 year low, murder rates are at a 43 year low and firearm murders of police officers are at a 50 year low.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...ens-less-violent-crime-and-murders-again.html

​

35 years ago I was 2 years old, so these stats proclaim the safest America in my lifetime.


Military personnel should have the same right-to-carry as American civilians...only more so.

ahhhhhhh, now i see what disturbed you, the wild wild west comment....well, i meant no harm by it, my entire life a fully armed community...on the street, was termed the wild wild west....just a glorified way of saying all were or could carry guns if they deemed, which is the case also in the wild west days.

I still believe it is silly that you and others are trying to change the 'military protocol from the beginning for base life', and you are using this one instance to justify this change across the usa...kinda like liberals justifying gun control when some lunatic kills his wife or some stranger with it....or the liberals wanting to rid our police of all stun guns under all circumstance because they can kill...don't ya think?

care