Free will and God's will

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Bullypulpit, Aug 3, 2007.

  1. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    Free will...God's will...I find there to be an interesting tension between these two in Christianity, especially in today's world.

    On one hand we have the assertion of an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent deity who has written down and determined all that will happen to us throughout our lives. Belief in this deity is not optional.This kind of rigid determinism is somewhat archaic and was predominant before the reformation.

    On the other hand, we have the concept of free will. An omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent deity has cast the proverbial cosmic dice, and is standing back...watching, to see how they fall. Will we choose to to Believe...? Or not?

    For those who accept the Bible as the inerrant, infallible and absolute word of God, to hold that we have free will is a contradiction if not a cop-out. For if we fail to obey God's, or any other, law we cannot truly be held responsible for that failure unless we truly are free agents.
     
  2. liberalogic
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    liberalogic Member

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    I often hear Christians say that God has a plan for all of us. When Christians die, they often chalk it up to this "plan." How can we have free will if God has a plan for all of us? And if we do have free will, then what are the limitations of God's interference in world affairs (from wars to natural disasters) that affect this free will?
     
  3. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    Free will means we have the ability to chose, We can believe or not believe in God, or anything else. We can chose to believe in God and still not do all the things he asks of us. We can chose to not believe at all, we can chose to believe and try to meet all the demands that we think God puts on us.

    There is no faith without free will. If God wanted us to worship him with no free will then it would be slavery.

    My personal belief is that God put us here to learn and grow. That we lived in God's presence before being sent here, but that without free will we could not learn nor grow nor become more of anything. There is no absolute proof God exists because if there were, there would be NO free will and no faith required. It is left to us to CHOSE to believe. And to act on that belief.

    Organized religion makes some idiotic claims. In the end it is a personal matter, between you and your belief. I personally do not believe that God can both be forgiving and vengeful or spiteful. Either he demands absolute obeidence ( which throws out free will) or he allows free will and our faith in him ( that faith does not require any specific organized religion, in my opinion). A belief in a single God, further the acceptance of Jesus to atone for our sins and allow for forgiveness ( though I do not rule out that Jews and Muslims will be accepted even though they do not believe in Jesus as the Son of God)
     
  4. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    By the very definition of "God", all that we have done, are doing and will do, is known by this omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and eternal entity. Thus "free-will" is but an illusion. And that is the problem with deterministic philosophies...their inherent contradictions defeat their premises.
     
  5. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    Simply not true.
     
  6. Toro
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    Toro Diamond Member

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    I think its awfully narcissistic to think that God has a plan for me.
     
  7. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    Firstly, what part? Secondly, what do you offer in evidence to support your assertion?
     
  8. onedomino
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    onedomino SCE to AUX

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    God may have set this Universe in motion. No one knows; especially those that claim they do. They may have Faith, but that is all they have. There is no deterministic "plan." Biochemical evolution points to no particular objective. Not even the motion of subatomic particles is deterministic: http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/208/jan27/hup.html. Statistically, Free Will probably exisits.
     
  9. actsnoblemartin
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    actsnoblemartin I love Andrea & April

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    Intersting question, one i have pondered, do we have free will, or does god plan it all out for us?. I hope we have a christian scholar who can explain the difference.


     
  10. actsnoblemartin
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    actsnoblemartin I love Andrea & April

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    You have some good points, I enjoy reading your point of view.


     

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