'Fountains' of methane 1,000m across erupt from Arctic ice

[Old Rocks]

Old Rocks doesnt believe that the reason for the methane being released could be anything but the global warming that he obssesses over. it doesnt matter that the scientists involved believe it is seawater infiltration on the time scale of thousands of years, or that the same outgassing if caused by warming would have already happened in the MWP when Greenland was warmer than today.

I am a little concerned that the scientists involved decided to 'go on vacation' and be 'unavailable for comment' when the publicity erupted over their findings. the public will only remember the incorrect headlines and probably wont even hear that global warming is not the cause for the methane release. allowing false statements about your work to go unchallenged is just as bad as doing the actual lying when you are a scientist.

Total and complete lying bullshit, Ian. And you know it.

Home

Letter to world leaders;

I write to you on behalf of the Arctic Methane Emergency Group, which includes among its founding members Peter Wadhams, Professor of Ocean Physics, Cambridge; Stephen Salter, Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design, Edinburgh; and Brian Orr, former Principal Science Officer at the UK DoE (as was). The Group has received support and advice from many pre-eminent climate science colleagues around the world. The purpose of this letter is to respectfully bring to your attention new evidence of the rapidly deepening climate change crisis in the Arctic. We appeal to you to support our call to put the imminent loss of Arctic summer sea ice and escalation of Arctic methane emissions at the top of the climate change agenda and to support emergency measures to cool the Arctic.

The articles in the peer reviewed journals will be out this spring. That is just about as fast as science can be done.

In the meantime there is much being communicated to those who have power. But you can celebrate, nothing will be done.

As I have stated before, you fellows have won. We get to see what an adrupt climate change will do to our present civiliazation. Going to be interesting.

 

[saveliberty]

We win when these con artists posing as scientists are in jail for fraud.

 

[Old Rocks]

We win when the lying assholes like Inhofe are in jail. Liberturd, you have yet to back up any of your opinions with real science. The mark of a 'Conservative', considers the opinion of an obese junkie on the radio as worth more than the works of thousands of scientists from all over the world.

 

[saveliberty]

We win when the lying assholes like Inhofe are in jail. Liberturd, you have yet to back up any of your opinions with real science. The mark of a 'Conservative', considers the opinion of an obese junkie on the radio as worth more than the works of thousands of scientists from all over the world.

Making blind guesses now I see. I listen to local radio with no nationally syndicated talk shows. I'm just using your reports and finding the holes and lies by you.

 

[bripat9643]

Liberturd, you have yet to back up any of your opinions with real science.

Nether have you, dipstick. Computer cartoons are not science.

 

[Intense]

The Democratic Republic of the Congo and Rwanda decided to reduce the risk of a sudden eruption of the gases dissolved in Lake Kivu. This is intended to be done in an economically beneficial and environmentally sustainable way. In total, the dissolved methane in Lake Kivu is worth an estimated amount of 20 billion dollars and should help to reduce the dependency on imported energy resources and wood fuel.

Governmental institutions as well as companies delivering consultancy services and private investors have been involved in the project of harvesting the methane in Lake Kivu.

In Rwanda, the Unit for the Promotion and Exploitation of Lake Kivu Gas (UPEGAZ), a body within the Ministry of Infrastructure (MININFRA) is responsible to promote the project of methane harvesting.

While COWI, a Danish consulting company, was mandated to evaluate the natural dangers of a disaster caused by eruption of Lake Kivu and the risks of proposed gas extraction projects, the Netherlands Commission for Environmental Assessment (NCEA) provided advice on how to embed the harvesting of the methane and the monitoring of the stratification of Lake Kivu in a legal, regulatory and institutional setting.

Eawag: A fascinating ecosystem and a source of energy: Methane Harvesting

 

[saveliberty]

Lord knows we don't want it to get hot in Rwanda or the Congo....

Might melt all the permafrost there...

 

[Intense]

Lord knows we don't want it to get hot in Rwanda or the Congo....

Might melt all the permafrost there...

Just pointing out action taken to turn a negative into a positive. They are not crying about the problem, they are seizing an opportunity.

 

[Old Rocks]

We are now seeing the influence of the Arctic Methane in the worldwide amount of CH4 in the atmosphere.

One minor correction here. The factor of potentcy as a GHG for CH4 is over 20 for 100 years. Because of the chemistry of it's interaction with hydroxals in the atmosphere, over 20 years, the potentcy is at least 60 times that of CO2, and may be as high as 150.

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2011/20111109_greenhousegasindex.html

•A continued steady increase in carbon dioxide: Global carbon dioxide levels rose to an average of 389 parts per million in 2010, compared with 386 ppm in 2009, and 354 in the index or comparison year of 1990. Before the Industrial Revolution of the 1880s, carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere was about 280 ppm. Carbon dioxide levels swing up and down in natural seasonal cycles, but human activities – primarily the burning of coal, oil, and gas for transportation and power – have driven a consistent upward trend in concentration.
•A continued recent increase in methane: Methane levels rose in 2010 for the fourth consecutive year after remaining nearly constant for the preceding 10 years, up to 1799 parts per billion. Methane measured 1794 ppb in 2009, and 1714 ppb in 1990. Pound for pound, methane is 25 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, but there’s less of it in the atmosphere.
•

NOAA's Annual Greenhouse Gas Index is a gauge of the climate warming influence of greenhouse gases added to the atmosphere by human activities and compared with the "index" year of 1990. The AGGI shows a steady upward trend, reaching 1.29 in 2010. This means that the heating effect of additional greenhouse gases in the atmosphere has increased by 29 percent since 1990

High resolution (Credit: NOAA)
A continued steady increase in nitrous oxide: Best known as laughing gas in dentistry, nitrous oxide is also a greenhouse gas emitted from natural sources and as a byproduct of agricultural fertilization, livestock manure, sewage treatment and some industrial processes.
•A continued recent drop in two chlorofluorocarbons, CFC11 and CFC12: Levels of these two compounds – which are ozone-depleting chemicals in addition to greenhouse gases – have been dropping at about one percent per year since the late 1990s, because of an international agreement, the Montreal Protocol, to protect the ozone layer.

 

[Old Rocks]

Lord knows we don't want it to get hot in Rwanda or the Congo....

Might melt all the permafrost there...

Just pointing out action taken to turn a negative into a positive. They are not crying about the problem, they are seizing an opportunity.

For a small area, this is possible. And it would be possible to capture a lot of the methane in the arctic, and convert it to energy and CO2. However, I fail to see how we can capture enough of it to make a differance. And certainly not at a profit. We are discussing millions of square miles, on land, and under the Arctic Ocean on the offshore shelves.

Such projects are being discussed as we post. And one government could not possibly do it alone, even with all the governments on earth contributing their entire defense budget, I doubt that it is doable.

You will find the discussions here;

Home

 

[Old Rocks]

Lord knows we don't want it to get hot in Rwanda or the Congo....

Might melt all the permafrost there...

Very intelligent. The methane produced in any one location respects national borders, correct?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

We are now seeing the influence of the Arctic Methane in the worldwide amount of CH4 in the atmosphere.

One minor correction here. The factor of potentcy as a GHG for CH4 is over 20 for 100 years. Because of the chemistry of it's interaction with hydroxals in the atmosphere, over 20 years, the potentcy is at least 60 times that of CO2, and may be as high as 150.

NOAA greenhouse gas index continues climbing

•A continued steady increase in carbon dioxide: Global carbon dioxide levels rose to an average of 389 parts per million in 2010, compared with 386 ppm in 2009, and 354 in the index or comparison year of 1990. Before the Industrial Revolution of the 1880s, carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere was about 280 ppm. Carbon dioxide levels swing up and down in natural seasonal cycles, but human activities – primarily the burning of coal, oil, and gas for transportation and power – have driven a consistent upward trend in concentration.
•A continued recent increase in methane: Methane levels rose in 2010 for the fourth consecutive year after remaining nearly constant for the preceding 10 years, up to 1799 parts per billion. Methane measured 1794 ppb in 2009, and 1714 ppb in 1990. Pound for pound, methane is 25 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, but there’s less of it in the atmosphere.
•

NOAA's Annual Greenhouse Gas Index is a gauge of the climate warming influence of greenhouse gases added to the atmosphere by human activities and compared with the "index" year of 1990. The AGGI shows a steady upward trend, reaching 1.29 in 2010. This means that the heating effect of additional greenhouse gases in the atmosphere has increased by 29 percent since 1990

High resolution (Credit: NOAA)
A continued steady increase in nitrous oxide: Best known as laughing gas in dentistry, nitrous oxide is also a greenhouse gas emitted from natural sources and as a byproduct of agricultural fertilization, livestock manure, sewage treatment and some industrial processes.
•A continued recent drop in two chlorofluorocarbons, CFC11 and CFC12: Levels of these two compounds – which are ozone-depleting chemicals in addition to greenhouse gases – have been dropping at about one percent per year since the late 1990s, because of an international agreement, the Montreal Protocol, to protect the ozone layer.

Wowzers!!!! Assmuning no rounding errors, methane has increased by 4ppb a year for the past 20 years! At that rate, in a few thousand years, all of us living today will be dead!!

Oh Dear! How are you not moving to North Korea with that sword of Damocles hanging over you?

The Official Webpage of The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK)

 

[Old Rocks]

At the low end of the scale for GHG potentcy for 20 years, that is equal to at least 50 ppm of CO2.

Now the scientists have stated that 450 ppm of CO2 is pretty much the point of no return. We have increased the CO2 to 390 ppm. But we have increased the CH4 from around 800 ppb to 1800 ppb, without taking 2011's increase into account. Long term, that alone represents the equivelent of 20 ppm of CO2. But we have also increased the NOx in the atmosphere, as well as the industrial chemicals, which have no natural analogs, many of which have a potentcy measured in the thousands.

So the reality is that we are already past the 450 mark. And that is what the melt of the Arctic Ice and the outgassing of the clathrates are telling us.

I see no rational way of preventing the coming 'runaway' warming. So we need to be discussing how to deal with the consequences. That will not happen at government levels until the situation is beyond remedy. Whores like Inhofe will prevent that. So it is up to each of us as individuals to understand what is happening and access our vulnebility to these changes. Not a good time to be living on a flood plain.

 

[westwall]

Old Rocks doesnt believe that the reason for the methane being released could be anything but the global warming that he obssesses over. it doesnt matter that the scientists involved believe it is seawater infiltration on the time scale of thousands of years, or that the same outgassing if caused by warming would have already happened in the MWP when Greenland was warmer than today.

I am a little concerned that the scientists involved decided to 'go on vacation' and be 'unavailable for comment' when the publicity erupted over their findings. the public will only remember the incorrect headlines and probably wont even hear that global warming is not the cause for the methane release. allowing false statements about your work to go unchallenged is just as bad as doing the actual lying when you are a scientist.

Total and complete lying bullshit, Ian. And you know it.

Home

Letter to world leaders;

I write to you on behalf of the Arctic Methane Emergency Group, which includes among its founding members Peter Wadhams, Professor of Ocean Physics, Cambridge; Stephen Salter, Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design, Edinburgh; and Brian Orr, former Principal Science Officer at the UK DoE (as was). The Group has received support and advice from many pre-eminent climate science colleagues around the world. The purpose of this letter is to respectfully bring to your attention new evidence of the rapidly deepening climate change crisis in the Arctic. We appeal to you to support our call to put the imminent loss of Arctic summer sea ice and escalation of Arctic methane emissions at the top of the climate change agenda and to support emergency measures to cool the Arctic.

The articles in the peer reviewed journals will be out this spring. That is just about as fast as science can be done.

In the meantime there is much being communicated to those who have power. But you can celebrate, nothing will be done.

As I have stated before, you fellows have won. We get to see what an adrupt climate change will do to our present civiliazation. Going to be interesting.

"We write to the world leaders to please please please give us loads of money so we can continue to live in the manner to which we have grown accustomed even though we haven't produced one usable bit of technology for the hundred billion plus taxpayer dollars that has been given to us."

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

At the low end of the scale for GHG potentcy for 20 years, that is equal to at least 50 ppm of CO2.

Now the scientists have stated that 450 ppm of CO2 is pretty much the point of no return. We have increased the CO2 to 390 ppm. But we have increased the CH4 from around 800 ppb to 1800 ppb, without taking 2011's increase into account. Long term, that alone represents the equivelent of 20 ppm of CO2. But we have also increased the NOx in the atmosphere, as well as the industrial chemicals, which have no natural analogs, many of which have a potentcy measured in the thousands.

So the reality is that we are already past the 450 mark. And that is what the melt of the Arctic Ice and the outgassing of the clathrates are telling us.

I see no rational way of preventing the coming 'runaway' warming. So we need to be discussing how to deal with the consequences. That will not happen at government levels until the situation is beyond remedy. Whores like Inhofe will prevent that. So it is up to each of us as individuals to understand what is happening and access our vulnebility to these changes. Not a good time to be living on a flood plain.

Now the scientists have stated that 450 ppm of CO2 is pretty much the point of no return.

Point of no return for what?

So the reality is that we are already past the 450 mark.

So we can't do anything? Great, quit whining already.

So we need to be discussing how to deal with the consequences.

OMG! You sound like a conservative!

 

[westwall]

Lord knows we don't want it to get hot in Rwanda or the Congo....

Might melt all the permafrost there...

Just pointing out action taken to turn a negative into a positive. They are not crying about the problem, they are seizing an opportunity.

Which is what intelligent people do. The one common trait amongst all of these AGW "scientists" is sub par work. They are lazy and doing field work is terrifying for them. We referred to them as "black box" scientists, they were real good at manipulating numbers but couldn't identify simple rock formations. How they got their degree's I'll never know.

 

[westwall]

At the low end of the scale for GHG potentcy for 20 years, that is equal to at least 50 ppm of CO2.

Now the scientists have stated that 450 ppm of CO2 is pretty much the point of no return. We have increased the CO2 to 390 ppm. But we have increased the CH4 from around 800 ppb to 1800 ppb, without taking 2011's increase into account. Long term, that alone represents the equivelent of 20 ppm of CO2. But we have also increased the NOx in the atmosphere, as well as the industrial chemicals, which have no natural analogs, many of which have a potentcy measured in the thousands.

So the reality is that we are already past the 450 mark. And that is what the melt of the Arctic Ice and the outgassing of the clathrates are telling us.

I see no rational way of preventing the coming 'runaway' warming. So we need to be discussing how to deal with the consequences. That will not happen at government levels until the situation is beyond remedy. Whores like Inhofe will prevent that. So it is up to each of us as individuals to understand what is happening and access our vulnebility to these changes. Not a good time to be living on a flood plain.

What is that, tipping point number 3022? They have cried "wolf" too many times. The People no longer believer their bullshit because it is...well bullshit.

 

[Old Rocks]

Old Rocks doesnt believe that the reason for the methane being released could be anything but the global warming that he obssesses over. it doesnt matter that the scientists involved believe it is seawater infiltration on the time scale of thousands of years, or that the same outgassing if caused by warming would have already happened in the MWP when Greenland was warmer than today.

I am a little concerned that the scientists involved decided to 'go on vacation' and be 'unavailable for comment' when the publicity erupted over their findings. the public will only remember the incorrect headlines and probably wont even hear that global warming is not the cause for the methane release. allowing false statements about your work to go unchallenged is just as bad as doing the actual lying when you are a scientist.

Total and complete lying bullshit, Ian. And you know it.

Home

Letter to world leaders;

I write to you on behalf of the Arctic Methane Emergency Group, which includes among its founding members Peter Wadhams, Professor of Ocean Physics, Cambridge; Stephen Salter, Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design, Edinburgh; and Brian Orr, former Principal Science Officer at the UK DoE (as was). The Group has received support and advice from many pre-eminent climate science colleagues around the world. The purpose of this letter is to respectfully bring to your attention new evidence of the rapidly deepening climate change crisis in the Arctic. We appeal to you to support our call to put the imminent loss of Arctic summer sea ice and escalation of Arctic methane emissions at the top of the climate change agenda and to support emergency measures to cool the Arctic.

The articles in the peer reviewed journals will be out this spring. That is just about as fast as science can be done.

In the meantime there is much being communicated to those who have power. But you can celebrate, nothing will be done.

As I have stated before, you fellows have won. We get to see what an adrupt climate change will do to our present civiliazation. Going to be interesting.

"We write to the world leaders to please please please give us loads of money so we can continue to live in the manner to which we have grown accustomed even though we haven't produced one usable bit of technology for the hundred billion plus taxpayer dollars that has been given to us."

Now Walleyes, you continue to be a lying bastard. The money spent on Arctic research reachs the billion mark only when you include satellites.

And people like Mr. H would be getting more money than any of the scientists for they are the people that would be doing the very difficult work involved there. That is, were anyone to listen.

People like you will prevail, nothing will be done, either to try to prevent the continueing melt, or to deal with the consequences.

But, what the hell, you won't have to deal with it, and who cares what your children and grandchildren have to deal with. You got yours.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

At the low end of the scale for GHG potentcy for 20 years, that is equal to at least 50 ppm of CO2.

Now the scientists have stated that 450 ppm of CO2 is pretty much the point of no return. We have increased the CO2 to 390 ppm. But we have increased the CH4 from around 800 ppb to 1800 ppb, without taking 2011's increase into account. Long term, that alone represents the equivelent of 20 ppm of CO2. But we have also increased the NOx in the atmosphere, as well as the industrial chemicals, which have no natural analogs, many of which have a potentcy measured in the thousands.

So the reality is that we are already past the 450 mark. And that is what the melt of the Arctic Ice and the outgassing of the clathrates are telling us.

I see no rational way of preventing the coming 'runaway' warming. So we need to be discussing how to deal with the consequences. That will not happen at government levels until the situation is beyond remedy. Whores like Inhofe will prevent that. So it is up to each of us as individuals to understand what is happening and access our vulnebility to these changes. Not a good time to be living on a flood plain.

"See this ring right here under my pinkie? That was the point of no return"

 

[CrusaderFrank]

My wish for 2012: OR, Rdean, TM and Mr Charmin all convince each other to move to North Korea...I'm crying tears of joy here...should one man be allowed to have such a happy fantasy?