Former Pastor Converts To Atheism

[PratchettFan]

Former pastor Ryan Bell was asked to step down from his Seventh-day Adventist congregation in March 2014, after openly questioning his faith. For his New Year's resolution he decided to try living without Gawd for one year.

He announced to NPR recently that he no longer believes in Gawd.

Q: This weekend you told NPR: “I don’t think that God exists.” Can you elaborate?
A: I think the best way I can explain the conclusion I’ve come to — and conclusion is too strong a word for the provisional place I now stand and work from — is that the intellectual and emotional energy it takes to figure out how God fits into everything is far greater than dealing with reality as it presents itself to us.

That probably sounds very nonrational, and I want people to know that I have read several dozen books and understand a good many of the arguments. I’d just say that the existence of God seems like an extra layer of complexity that isn’t necessary. The world makes more sense to me as it is, without postulating a divine being who is somehow in charge of things.

full article @

After A Year Without God Former Pastor Ryan Bell No Longer Believes

You want to know the truth? It was only after I took a long hard look at religion that I realized what a joke it all was. I think most believers aren't very deep thinkers or haven't thought about it that much. It just makes them feel good and they choose to believe.

So my point is I bet a lot of priests preachers pastors reverands bishops cardinals popes figure it out but like being a teacher with 10 years you now just want to make it to retirement. And look at all the shister preachers who swindle peoples money. I think they go into it phones.

Seawytch posted an article on this topic earlier today.

Why are Atheists and Agnostics better informed? The Los Angeles Times quotes one of the researchers who has a theory:

American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study, said Alan Cooperman,associate director for research at the Pew Forum.

"These are people who thought a lot about religion," he said. "They're not indifferent. They care about it."


Survey Atheists Agnostics Know More About Religion Than Religious The Two-Way NPR

The way theists view us only further confirm my beliefs.

Well, at least you admit it is your beliefs. Finally some honesty.

I have lots of evidence for my beliefs. Throw away the holy book I say is man made and what evidence do you have for god? None. You follow a cult just like Muslims and mormons. What's the difference?

I have no evidence at all. I don't even have a holy book. Now show me your evidence. Stop talking about it. Present it.

 

[Hollie]

I knew you would bail out. You do that consistently.

Where is your evidence in support of your "atheism is a religion", slogan. You Have had opportunities to support your statement yet you continue to side step and evade.

So, you can't support that statement. I have to take it on faith. I see you haven't changed your dogma.

It's your statement you have not supported and cannot support. You're dancing as fast as you can to avoid addressing your failure to support your claim.

I see your maintain your dogma, in spite of its failure.

One more time. Dogma is the insistence that a belief is true and not subject to question. If your position does not constitute dogma, then nothing does. And again, one more time, if I am wrong then present your evidence. I keep asking you to do that, and you keep saying I'm dogmatic for not just accepting your position without question.

dogma
noun dog·ma \ˈdȯg-mə, ˈdäg-\

: a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted

: a belief or set of beliefs that is taught by a religious organization

There is no dogma in atheism.

Then you can provide the evidence to support the claim which was made? Because all of this started when I said it was pure faith. Show me how it isn't. And if it isn't, and I am not supposed to question it, then I refer you to the definition above.

Ah. You've employed the "prove it isn't", tactic.

That's a tactic often dragged out by religious zealots when they're tasked with supporting their specious claims.

You maintain your dogma of "atheism is a religion". In multiple posts and in multiple threads you have consistently failed to present a defendable argument for your dogma. You have sidestepped and evaded and made every attempt to shift the burden of proof which falls to the positive assertion.

So once again we're left with you making arguments you cannot support and then sidestepping any accounting for your dishonesty.

Doesn't that make you feel, at the very least, dirty?

 

[sealybobo]

You want to know the truth? It was only after I took a long hard look at religion that I realized what a joke it all was. I think most believers aren't very deep thinkers or haven't thought about it that much. It just makes them feel good and they choose to believe.

So my point is I bet a lot of priests preachers pastors reverands bishops cardinals popes figure it out but like being a teacher with 10 years you now just want to make it to retirement. And look at all the shister preachers who swindle peoples money. I think they go into it phones.

Seawytch posted an article on this topic earlier today.

Why are Atheists and Agnostics better informed? The Los Angeles Times quotes one of the researchers who has a theory:

American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study, said Alan Cooperman,associate director for research at the Pew Forum.

"These are people who thought a lot about religion," he said. "They're not indifferent. They care about it."


Survey Atheists Agnostics Know More About Religion Than Religious The Two-Way NPR

The way theists view us only further confirm my beliefs.

Well, at least you admit it is your beliefs. Finally some honesty.

I have lots of evidence for my beliefs. Throw away the holy book I say is man made and what evidence do you have for god? None. You follow a cult just like Muslims and mormons. What's the difference?

I have no evidence at all. I don't even have a holy book. Now show me your evidence. Stop talking about it. Present it.

Then from now on we will assume the loch ness monster is true too until proven false. And any other claim I make is true until you prove otherwise OK? You have to play by the same rule. If you can make any outrageous claim and you think it is just as valid as my disbelief then I am a god. Send me $1000 of burn in hell. Do you think the odds I'm for real are better or worse than 50 50?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

 

[1stRambo]

Yo, he is just one of those phony preachers that MSNBC has on their shows as guest, and they talk like Al Sharpton putting everyone down!!!

"GTP"

 

[PratchettFan]

So, you can't support that statement. I have to take it on faith. I see you haven't changed your dogma.

It's your statement you have not supported and cannot support. You're dancing as fast as you can to avoid addressing your failure to support your claim.

I see your maintain your dogma, in spite of its failure.

One more time. Dogma is the insistence that a belief is true and not subject to question. If your position does not constitute dogma, then nothing does. And again, one more time, if I am wrong then present your evidence. I keep asking you to do that, and you keep saying I'm dogmatic for not just accepting your position without question.

dogma
noun dog·ma \ˈdȯg-mə, ˈdäg-\

: a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted

: a belief or set of beliefs that is taught by a religious organization

There is no dogma in atheism.

Then you can provide the evidence to support the claim which was made? Because all of this started when I said it was pure faith. Show me how it isn't. And if it isn't, and I am not supposed to question it, then I refer you to the definition above.

Ah. You've employed the "prove it isn't", tactic.

That's a tactic often dragged out by religious zealots when they're tasked with supporting their specious claims.

You maintain your dogma of "atheism is a religion". In multiple posts and in multiple threads you have consistently failed to present a defendable argument for your dogma. You have sidestepped and evaded and made every attempt to shift the burden of proof which falls to the positive assertion.

So once again we're left with you making arguments you cannot support and then sidestepping any accounting for your dishonesty.

Doesn't that make you feel, at the very least, dirty?

I get that I am talking to a true believer, so I honestly don't expect to get through to you. The only thing I have claimed is that your position is based upon belief. I have repeatedly asked you for the evidence to support your position and you have repeatedly berated me for having the temerity to do so. Obviously, you have no evidence. You are operating on belief and belief alone. You just don't have the honesty to admit it. That is not my problem. But don't expect a free ride.

 

[sealybobo]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

Do you agree theres a difference between being agnostic about a generic creator and being atheist about all the man made organized religions? You must have an opinion about Jesus Mohammad Noah moses and Joseph smith

 

[Coloradomtnman]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

Do you agree theres a difference between being agnostic about a generic creator and being atheist about all the man made organized religions? You must have an opinion about Jesus Mohammad Noah moses and Joseph smith

Yes. My opinion is that all known religions' claims of truth seem highly unlikely.

 

[PratchettFan]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

I would agree with this. Although, I am not convinced pure agnosticism is possible - at least in an adult. However, I would certainly agree that agnosticism is the only rational position.

 

[PratchettFan]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

Do you agree theres a difference between being agnostic about a generic creator and being atheist about all the man made organized religions? You must have an opinion about Jesus Mohammad Noah moses and Joseph smith

Yes. My opinion is that all known religions' claims of truth seem highly unlikely.

Again. I would agree.

 

[sealybobo]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

Sound more like an agnostic atheist to me.

A theist says they know god exists. He visited them. Fact.

There's actually no such thing as an atheist because you can not KNOW god doesnt exist. Atheism is the opposite of theism. Theists say they know god exists. Right? See how they dont know and neither do atheists? So the best position is agnostic atheist. You sound like one. Agnostics are pussies. Man up.

 

[Hollie]

It's your statement you have not supported and cannot support. You're dancing as fast as you can to avoid addressing your failure to support your claim.

I see your maintain your dogma, in spite of its failure.

One more time. Dogma is the insistence that a belief is true and not subject to question. If your position does not constitute dogma, then nothing does. And again, one more time, if I am wrong then present your evidence. I keep asking you to do that, and you keep saying I'm dogmatic for not just accepting your position without question.

dogma
noun dog·ma \ˈdȯg-mə, ˈdäg-\

: a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted

: a belief or set of beliefs that is taught by a religious organization

There is no dogma in atheism.

Then you can provide the evidence to support the claim which was made? Because all of this started when I said it was pure faith. Show me how it isn't. And if it isn't, and I am not supposed to question it, then I refer you to the definition above.

Ah. You've employed the "prove it isn't", tactic.

That's a tactic often dragged out by religious zealots when they're tasked with supporting their specious claims.

You maintain your dogma of "atheism is a religion". In multiple posts and in multiple threads you have consistently failed to present a defendable argument for your dogma. You have sidestepped and evaded and made every attempt to shift the burden of proof which falls to the positive assertion.

So once again we're left with you making arguments you cannot support and then sidestepping any accounting for your dishonesty.

Doesn't that make you feel, at the very least, dirty?

I get that I am talking to a true believer, so I honestly don't expect to get through to you. The only thing I have claimed is that your position is based upon belief. I have repeatedly asked you for the evidence to support your position and you have repeatedly berated me for having the temerity to do so. Obviously, you have no evidence. You are operating on belief and belief alone. You just don't have the honesty to admit it. That is not my problem. But don't expect a free ride.

Um, no. You have claimed atheism is a religion. Then, as now, you are unable to support that position. Then, as now, you hope not to be held accountable for your specious opinions and instead, seek to impose your dogma on others.

 

[Carla_Danger]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

I would agree with this. Although, I am not convinced pure agnosticism is possible - at least in an adult. However, I would certainly agree that agnosticism is the only rational position.

And you have faith in that position?

 

[sealybobo]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

I would agree with this. Although, I am not convinced pure agnosticism is possible - at least in an adult. However, I would certainly agree that agnosticism is the only rational position.

We agree you gotta pick a side. Lol

 

[Hollie]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

What he has maintained is that his belief system is such that, "atheism is a religion".

At every instance when he has been tasked with defending that absurdity, he has deflected, denied and obfuscated.

 

[Hollie]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

I would agree with this. Although, I am not convinced pure agnosticism is possible - at least in an adult. However, I would certainly agree that agnosticism is the only rational position.

And you have faith in that position?

He's a true believer in that religion.... The religion of "I never said that, and if I did, I won't admit it".

 

[Coloradomtnman]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

Sound more like an agnostic atheist to me.

A theist says they know god exists. He visited them. Fact.

There's actually no such thing as an atheist because you can not KNOW god doesnt exist. Atheism is the opposite of theism. Theists say they know god exists. Right? See how they dont know and neither do atheists? So the best position is agnostic atheist. You sound like one. Agnostics are pussies. Man up.

I'd rather not get into the definition of atheism, agnosticism, agnostic atheism, strong or weak atheism debate. Let's just say I'm a non-believer.

What do I need to "man up" to, and how would I? Why would I?

For all we know Joseph Smith was right and Mormonism is the one true faith. Or even L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. I hope not, and with everything I think I know - I would think that either of those examples are not true. But I don't know.

And belief should not be substituted for knowledge. That's the domain of the theist.

 

[PratchettFan]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

I would agree with this. Although, I am not convinced pure agnosticism is possible - at least in an adult. However, I would certainly agree that agnosticism is the only rational position.

And you have faith in that position?

Sure.

 

[PratchettFan]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

I would agree with this. Although, I am not convinced pure agnosticism is possible - at least in an adult. However, I would certainly agree that agnosticism is the only rational position.

We agree you gotta pick a side. Lol

Of course you do. But don't pretend it is something it is not.

 

[Carla_Danger]

What PratchettFan is saying is that if one believes there is no God(s), it is as much a faith-based belief as believing there is one. In other words, agnosticism is the only rational position. There is no faith in not believing one way or the other.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe there is no possibility of one or something like a god or something unimaginable. I just don't know.

Belief should not be substituted for knowledge. If there is one atheist belief, that should be it.

Hollie sealybobo ClosedCaption Carla_Danger

I would agree with this. Although, I am not convinced pure agnosticism is possible - at least in an adult. However, I would certainly agree that agnosticism is the only rational position.

And you have faith in that position?

Sure.

Well I don't appreciate you projecting your religion onto others.